$10k Budget for 7.2.4 Speakers and Receiver - Please help - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 197 Old 01-23-2019, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Volts are great, I use to own Volt 10's. crg are you open to DIY (or AIY - assemble yourself like the volts)? If so this opens all kinds of options and we should have talked you into doing that with your subs!!




Nice! I enjoy a wide variety too, but my default/go to is still hard rock and metal, and lately the more obscure the better.... I say that (obscure) but this week I have been on a Sepultura Arise album kick.



Yes!! I'm embarrased to say I only know him from the Hans Zimmer live Blu Ray, but it is incredible as I'm sure you know.
I would prefer not to DYI or AYI....I don't have the time....I know it is not a lot...but it is hard to find 2 mins when I'm home with the kids...besides, since I moved in we are in a constant state of "moving in/fixing crap/etc/etc/working in the house...." I don't need one more DYI project right now...
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post #152 of 197 Old 01-23-2019, 06:34 PM
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I saw Max/Igor and cia opening for Ozzy right after the Roots release!
Lucky! I assume they still played the hell out of Arise and Chaos AD which are my favorites. Like d-rail I've never seen Sepultura unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by d-rail34 View Post
It's funny you mention the Hans Zimmer Blu Ray. As I started watching it, I'm sitting there racking my brain trying to figure out why the main guitarist looked so familiar. It took me a minute, but I finally realized who it was. Lol. He's an amzaing guitarist.

I was also excited to see the addition of Michael Einziger of Incubus.

As for Sepultura. That's a band that I regret never seeing live. I did however get to see Soulfly at the first Ozzfest. They put on a great show.

Lastly...+1 on the Volts. Still trying to decide if I should go with the 10's, or just do the 8's to go with the 1099's for surround duties.

Was that '98 with Tool and Megadeth? Maybe 99 but I'm pretty sure 98. Great show, I saw it in Kansas City and Soul Fly was great as you say.

I haven't heard the 8's, I bet the price is pretty close so maybe better to just go 10's?
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post #153 of 197 Old 01-23-2019, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by crgzimbabwe View Post
I would prefer not to DYI or AYI....I don't have the time....I know it is not a lot...but it is hard to find 2 mins when I'm home with the kids...besides, since I moved in we are in a constant state of "moving in/fixing crap/etc/etc/working in the house...." I don't need one more DYI project right now...
I completely understand, and don't worry about not going DIY you are going to love those subs.
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post #154 of 197 Old 01-23-2019, 07:16 PM
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Lucky! I assume they still played the hell out of Arise and Chaos AD which are my favorites. Like d-rail I've never seen Sepultura unfortunately.




Was that '98 with Tool and Megadeth? Maybe 99 but I'm pretty sure 98. Great show, I saw it in Kansas City and Soul Fly was great as you say.

I haven't heard the 8's, I bet the price is pretty close so maybe better to just go 10's?
I had to look it up, and I was way off. It was actually in 2000 w/Black Label Scociety, Pantera, Disturbed, Incubus, etc..

If I did go with the 10's, it would definitely have to be the angle packs. The standard boxes are pretty deep, and the left rear will be mounted next to the hallway entrance. I'd hate for someone to run into it, as I'm sure that would leave a nice knot on their head. Lol. At least with the angled enclosure I'd be able to mount it a little higher.

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post #155 of 197 Old 01-23-2019, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by d-rail34 View Post
I had to look it up, and I was way off. It was actually in 2000 w/Black Label Scociety, Pantera, Disturbed, Incubus, etc..

If I did go with the 10's, it would definitely have to be the angle packs. The standard boxes are pretty deep, and the left rear will be mounted next to the hallway entrance. I'd hate for someone to run into it, as I'm sure that would leave a nice knot on their head. Lol. At least with the angled enclosure I'd be able to mount it a little higher.

Not to many shows left by that time for Pantera. I also saw them in late 2000 with Morbid Angel.

I forgot about the space issue.. in that case how different can they really sound, especially for surrounds. I wouldn't worry too much about it.
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post #156 of 197 Old 01-23-2019, 07:40 PM
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Not to many shows left by that time for Pantera. I also saw them in late 2000 with Morbid Angel.

I forgot about the space issue.. in that case how different can they really sound, especially for surrounds. I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Unfortunately not. That was a shame too.

I was actually lucky enough to meet Dime a couple of times. Being from Texas originally, I went to alot of their shows, dating all the way back to 1987.



My thoughts exactly on the sound difference between the 8's & 10's.

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post #157 of 197 Old 01-24-2019, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by d-rail34 View Post
Unfortunately not. That was a shame too.

I was actually lucky enough to meet Dime a couple of times. Being from Texas originally, I went to alot of their shows, dating all the way back to 1987.



My thoughts exactly on the sound difference between the 8's & 10's.

Woah, way back to the Diamond Darrell days.
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post #158 of 197 Old 01-24-2019, 06:44 AM
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Unfortunately not. That was a shame too.

I was actually lucky enough to meet Dime a couple of times. Being from Texas originally, I went to alot of their shows, dating all the way back to 1987.



My thoughts exactly on the sound difference between the 8's & 10's.

Woah, way back to the Diamond Darrell days.
Oh yeah. Pre-Phil even.

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post #159 of 197 Old 01-24-2019, 01:05 PM
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A lesson I learned is speakers that are fantastic for music don't work so well for home theater. So if there's anyway you can figure out how to listen to speakers you're considering in a movie theater environment go out of your way to make it happen. Your room is large by most so that's why I'd put a little more money towards subs in the following example budget:

Receiver - $2-3K, Yamaha or Anthem (could be receiver plus 3-5 channel amp or just receiver) lots of people love Denon but they run hot, as in to the touch.
LCR - $2-3K, really want to listen to whatever you're selecting, I have Paradigm for my dedicated theater and don't like them, but they fill my soul for music, I'm going to listen to PSA 210's soon and maybe buy them, and as much as I'm not into DIY speakers I heard DIY 1099s and they're killer for home theater, unbelievable actually. High sensitivity speakers seem ideal for home theater.
Surrounds - Not sure how important it is to spend money on these, probably get a lot of arguments....
Sub(s) - $3-4K, 18" subs and over 1000 watts RMS for your room, JTR, Seaton Sound, Deep Sea Sound, Rythmik.
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post #160 of 197 Old 01-24-2019, 03:50 PM - Thread Starter
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A lesson I learned is speakers that are fantastic for music don't work so well for home theater. So if there's anyway you can figure out how to listen to speakers you're considering in a movie theater environment go out of your way to make it happen. Your room is large by most so that's why I'd put a little more money towards subs in the following example budget:

Receiver - $2-3K, Yamaha or Anthem (could be receiver plus 3-5 channel amp or just receiver) lots of people love Denon but they run hot, as in to the touch.
LCR - $2-3K, really want to listen to whatever you're selecting, I have Paradigm for my dedicated theater and don't like them, but they fill my soul for music, I'm going to listen to PSA 210's soon and maybe buy them, and as much as I'm not into DIY speakers I heard DIY 1099s and they're killer for home theater, unbelievable actually. High sensitivity speakers seem ideal for home theater.
Surrounds - Not sure how important it is to spend money on these, probably get a lot of arguments....
Sub(s) - $3-4K, 18" subs and over 1000 watts RMS for your room, JTR, Seaton Sound, Deep Sea Sound, Rythmik.
Thank you Greg. Which Paradigm model do you have for LCR? I would love to demo the PSA 210Ts... I see they have a 60 day policy, but if I do that with 3 or 4 sets, it will end up costing me a ton in shipping these back.....
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post #161 of 197 Old 01-24-2019, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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I would like to bring light to some of Prestige Audio’s posts.

While I did not agree with some of what he was saying at first, he did have some very good points as I was talking with him today.

The FV15HP’s are ever so slightly overkill. I think a better choice would be the FVX15’s which are $300 less each but the output is very close, negligible even. Even better would be two VTF3’s by HSU. All will have insane output for your theater but as you spend more and more of your budget on the subwoofers you take away from the speakers as prestige has said. You have multiple seating positions and a large viewing distance. You need very high caliber mains for this. I will suggest PSA speakers at this point. A 7.0 system with 210T’s for the LCR and 110’s as surrounds will put you at $6000. This leaves $4000 for receiver and subwoofers. How you go about this is up to you. You could do a Denon X4400H + 4 VTF3’s for $4000 or X6400H with two FVX15’s for $4000.

You can squeeze in the X6400H + PSA 7.0 + 2 FV15HP’s under $12000 which was the top of your range, but IMO that extra $2000 spent really won’t improve the sound all that much.

Diminishing returns appears much closer than most think.

But good luck. I hope this post everyone can agree on. And I hope the OP can sort through this thread to find the “Good Info”.

And the RSL in-ceilings are a good pick. Highly regarded on AVS. I myself do not have them, but talked with plenty of happy owners.

Russdawg, interesting point on the FVX vs FV15HP. I know lots of folks here prefer the big subs, but for 2.5db less output and $600 less per pair, is it a worth "downgrade" to consider given the size of my room?
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post #162 of 197 Old 01-24-2019, 04:42 PM
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Or how about flat to 10Hz in room with a Master and a Slave unit?

http://seatonsound.net/product/submersivehp/
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post #163 of 197 Old 01-24-2019, 05:16 PM
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Russdawg, interesting point on the FVX vs FV15HP. I know lots of folks here prefer the big subs, but for 2.5db less output and $600 less per pair, is it a worth "downgrade" to consider given the size of my room?

I would say so. The 2.5 dB increase is minuscule in the 120dB+ output you’ll get out of either pair of subs when you put them in the corner.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #164 of 197 Old 01-24-2019, 05:28 PM
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Russdawg, interesting point on the FVX vs FV15HP. I know lots of folks here prefer the big subs, but for 2.5db less output and $600 less per pair, is it a worth "downgrade" to consider given the size of my room?
These can occasionally be found with an e-bay discount code between 10-15% but are regularly $1250 shipped (if you buy two):

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24458

The box is bigger and it has a bigger amp than the FV15HP and they are performance monsters. If you want to save a little cash on the FV15HPs, maybe consider these.
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post #165 of 197 Old 01-25-2019, 11:35 AM
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A lesson I learned is speakers that are fantastic for music don't work so well for home theater.
Can't disagree more and so does Floyd Toole.

https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reprodu.../dp/0240520092

My first 5.1 system was in 1989 before audio video receivers existed.

There is a TON of music in movies; always has been.

Mind you the PSAs you are looking at are good for both music and movies so you're good there.

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post #166 of 197 Old 01-25-2019, 01:05 PM
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Thank you Greg. Which Paradigm model do you have for LCR? I would love to demo the PSA 210Ts... I see they have a 60 day policy, but if I do that with 3 or 4 sets, it will end up costing me a ton in shipping these back.....
I have Paradigm monitor towers and as mentioned for music they are so perfect and accurate that they make your heart smile and you tingle on the inside. I also have access to a pair of Paradigm Premiers (I don't own them) that I would guess are 7'ish years old and in the theater they also lose that "smooth cherry on top" sound/feeling when compared to the DIY1099. (I'm certain many on this forum are calling 911 after reading that last statement). So that's why I'm trying to chase down a non DIY speaker that sounds like the 1099 or just stays on top of things during the movie. It all really comes down to having to listen to what speakers interest you in your setting because everyone's opinion is quite useless to you.
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post #167 of 197 Old 01-25-2019, 03:39 PM
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I have Paradigm monitor towers and as mentioned for music they are so perfect and accurate that they make your heart smile and you tingle on the inside. I also have access to a pair of Paradigm Premiers (I don't own them) that I would guess are 7'ish years old and in the theater they also lose that "smooth cherry on top" sound/feeling when compared to the DIY1099. (I'm certain many on this forum are calling 911 after reading that last statement). So that's why I'm trying to chase down a non DIY speaker that sounds like the 1099 or just stays on top of things during the movie. It all really comes down to having to listen to what speakers interest you in your setting because everyone's opinion is quite useless to you.
Absolutely correct.

Speaker preferences are one of the most subjective things on the planet. What our ears hear is all different to a degree. On the flipside of that, is the room. A fantastic pair of speakers can sound like total crap in a bad room.

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post #168 of 197 Old 01-26-2019, 08:29 AM
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Not sure I agree.

While the owners of Ascend, Philharmonic Audio, PSA and Selah are reasonably active on here I really don't see any of them pushing anyone one here towards their products; it seems to be their customers that do that.

I don't own any of their products but those that have bought them seem more often than not genuinely pleased and PSAs would seem the only one of those brands that might meet the OPs needs unless the industiral look of the speakers is off putting.

As to the very good Klipsch subs you are recommending my only concern was early amp failures reported by owners in the sub section.

Looking at high end theater rooms shown on AVS your recommendation for higher mounting when dealing with numerous rows of seats seems to be on point.
Thanks for your positive comment about us. Sometimes it can be difficult to determine whether a post is by an enthusiastic customer or hired shill. I had a particularly bad experience with the latter. When I challenged him on some claims that were made by the ID company he became very defensive and made every attempt to discredit me. Later on he showed up representing the same company at an audio show. Pathetic.
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Thinking Inside the Box...
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post #169 of 197 Old 01-26-2019, 08:43 AM
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Thanks for your positive comment about us. Sometimes it can be difficult to determine whether a post is by an enthusiastic customer or hired shill. I had a particularly bad experience with the latter. When I challenged him on some claims that were made by the ID company he became very defensive and made every attempt to discredit me. Later on he showed up representing the same company at an audio show. Pathetic.
You guys, (the ID brands I mentioned), seem to go out of your way NOT to pitch your products which I find refreshing and a reflection of high ethical standards.

I ran a small business with 11 brick and mortar locations and, sadly, most of my colleagues lacked ethical standards which, in the end, was to their detriment.

High ethical standard filter down to the "shop floor" which, IMHO, generally leads to a higher quality interface with the customer.
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post #170 of 197 Old 01-26-2019, 12:03 PM
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Lots of good info here.

I think I have made the decision on the subs. Going with two FV15HPs. Found out today that the same coworker who recommended the Sierras has a pair of FV15HPs and I just listened to it tonight...Wow!! I cant compare it to anything else as I have never heard comparable types of Subs to compare this to. But I was very impressed. He had Salks for LCR, they sounded very nice too, but I was trying to focus on the subs.

I'm definitnely sold on those FV15HPs. Whether I ended up selecting 210Ts, Chanes, Sierra Towers, Triads or any of the similar price points LCRs fronts, would it make any difference on the type of Surrounds I use to complement any of those Front Mains? I like the idea of the in-walls KEF CIs (or any other Inwalls) for the 4 Surround speakers, but would those Uni-q drivers be a good match for any of the LCR fronts? Or would I be better served keeping it in the family (if 210Ts use PSA surrounds, if Sierra, use Ascent Ac surrounds, etc)?

And on the 4 in ceiling height speakers would those RSL C34E match as well? I like that price point on those...
Glad to see you'll soon be part of the Rythmik family. For towers, I'd highly recommend you look into Aperion Audio. You can have up to 60 days in-home trial and I used 3 Verus Grand towers to power my LCR
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post #171 of 197 Old 01-28-2019, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Glad to see you'll soon be part of the Rythmik family. For towers, I'd highly recommend you look into Aperion Audio. You can have up to 60 days in-home trial and I used 3 Verus Grand towers to power my LCR
Your HT looks really nice! Congrats!!!

How do you like the Triad's Bronze in wall surrounds and in-ceilings with the Aperion LCR?

Are the surrounds Bipole or Dipole? I know Triad lets you choose.

Other than the Triads what else did you consider for Surround/Atmos speakers?
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post #172 of 197 Old 01-28-2019, 06:07 PM
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Thank you Greg. Which Paradigm model do you have for LCR? I would love to demo the PSA 210Ts... I see they have a 60 day policy, but if I do that with 3 or 4 sets, it will end up costing me a ton in shipping these back.....
Would seriously doubt you would send the 210's back. I don't think there is a better speaker available for home theater/music combo for the price short of JTR, at which point the price isn't close anymore.
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post #173 of 197 Old 01-28-2019, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you Greg. Which Paradigm model do you have for LCR? I would love to demo the PSA 210Ts... I see they have a 60 day policy, but if I do that with 3 or 4 sets, it will end up costing me a ton in shipping these back.....
Would seriously doubt you would send the 210's back. I don't think there is a better speaker available for home theater/music combo for the price short of JTR, at which point the price isn't close anymore.
My problem with the PSA tower is its size.... i need to compromise on width/depth....

The PSA 210T is 11” W by 16” D.... i need a tower that is no wider than 8.5” or so and no deeper than 12” if i want to be able to move then inwards a little towards center and still be able to see the 2 side TVs.....

If they made a slimmer version it would be great....
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post #174 of 197 Old 01-28-2019, 08:03 PM
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Would seriously doubt you would send the 210's back. I don't think there is a better speaker available for home theater/music combo for the price short of JTR, at which point the price isn't close anymore.

What about architectural speakers like in wall or professional speakers? You can get some killer Klipsch THX Custom Instal speakers that are the same price, some times cheaper if you find a nice dealer, just as dynamic, and way more flexible in placement since they aren’t huge friggen boxes, they just sit in your wall :P

Since his room is almost a fully dedicated theater it would seem like this would be the way to go since there’s virtually no WAF and I’m sure the OP would be glad to get his floorspace back

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #175 of 197 Old 01-29-2019, 07:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
What about architectural speakers like in wall or professional speakers? You can get some killer Klipsch THX Custom Instal speakers that are the same price, some times cheaper if you find a nice dealer, just as dynamic, and way more flexible in placement since they aren’t huge friggen boxes, they just sit in your wall :P

Since his room is almost a fully dedicated theater it would seem like this would be the way to go since there’s virtually no WAF and I’m sure the OP would be glad to get his floorspace back

With 2 x F15HPs there is no getting my floorspace back...
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post #176 of 197 Old 01-29-2019, 07:59 AM
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With 2 x F15HPs there is no getting my floorspace back...

Very true, but you can try and give yourself a little back :P

You’d also save an extensive amount of money by going architectural since you don’t have to pay for a heavily braced 50 lb cabinet

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #177 of 197 Old 01-29-2019, 10:07 AM
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My problem with the PSA tower is its size.... i need to compromise on width/depth....

The PSA 210T is 11” W by 16” D.... i need a tower that is no wider than 8.5” or so and no deeper than 12” if i want to be able to move then inwards a little towards center and still be able to see the 2 side TVs.....

If they made a slimmer version it would be great....
Looks to me like the Chane A5.4 might be the solution for you.

The Klipsch towers are all too big other than the 2 way RP4000F which the 3 way Chane will handily outclass in terms of volume potential with its 3 way design and larger main drivers.
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post #178 of 197 Old 01-29-2019, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Looks to me like the Chane A5.4 might be the solution for you.

The Klipsch towers are all too big other than the 2 way RP4000F which the 3 way Chane will handily outclass in terms of volume potential with its 3 way design and larger main drivers.
Right. The Chane 5.4, Sierra Towers, ML 40, possibly the Verus Grand Towers are all slimmer designs of 8" or less width.

The Chanes are by far the cheapest and possibly the best value? Sierra Towers/ ML 40s/ Verus Towers are all close to $1000/unit...
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post #179 of 197 Old 01-29-2019, 11:43 AM
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Right. The Chane 5.4, Sierra Towers, ML 40, possibly the Verus Grand Towers are all slimmer designs of 8" or less width.

The Chanes are by far the cheapest and possibly the best value? Sierra Towers/ ML 40s/ Verus Towers are all close to $1000/unit...
While I love my Martin Logan LX16s I think the Chanes might be better.

The Martin Logan 40 measured very very poorly.

https://www.soundstage.com/index.php...nts&Itemid=153

The Ascend Sierra 1 measure better as did the Aperion Verus bookshelf.

https://www.soundstage.com/measureme...scend_sierra1/

https://www.soundstage.com/index.php...=77&Itemid=153

But I still think based on AVS feeback that the Chane A5.4 might be the way to go.

Post in the Chane thread; some knowledgeable folks with a lot of prior quality speakers have stated the Chanes are the real deal.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...-s-thread.html

Very few pro reviews of Chanes out there, but this is an older one.

https://www.cnet.com/news/the-149-ch...od-to-be-true/

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post #180 of 197 Old 01-29-2019, 12:45 PM
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Your HT looks really nice! Congrats!!!

How do you like the Triad's Bronze in wall surrounds and in-ceilings with the Aperion LCR?

Are the surrounds Bipole or Dipole? I know Triad lets you choose.

Other than the Triads what else did you consider for Surround/Atmos speakers?
Thank you sir! I really enjoy the space and love having an actual theater that has both the audio and video dialed in.

Regarding quality and how I like them...
-Aperion Verus Grands sound superb. I thought they sounded great before they were calibrated, however, after calibration with a miniDSP 10x10 for the LCR + subs, I couldn't believe the added audio clarity/quality. It helps that I have Outlaw amps powering them to really drive the kind of horsepower that allow them to play loud and clear.
-Triads (bipole) sound fantastic as well. I'm glad I didn't spend the additional dollars for the silvers as it would've been overkill for my space. They play plenty loud and clear.
-I was originally going to go with Aperion Audio inwall and inceling, however, since they were open baffle design, that wouldn't fit with my plans of decoupling the room and maximizing STC.
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