$10k Budget for 7.2.4 Speakers and Receiver - Please help - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 197 Old 01-29-2019, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by crgzimbabwe View Post

Are the surrounds Bipole or Dipole?
Monopoles are preferred for Atmos applications. A 9 or 11 channel (or more) set up uses precise imaging to enhance the experience. Overly "diffuse" bipole surrounds are no longer preferred for modern Atmos content.

Use bipoles only if you need to use them if the surrounds are simply too close to the MLP because of unavoidable placement restrictions.

And don't use dipoles at all (based on Dolby's recommendation). See "Note" on page 6:

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...guidelines.pdf
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post #182 of 197 Old 01-29-2019, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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While I love my Martin Logan LX16s I think the Chanes might be better.

The Martin Logan 40 measured very very poorly.

https://www.soundstage.com/index.php...nts&Itemid=153

The Ascend Sierra 1 measure better as did the Aperion Verus bookshelf.

https://www.soundstage.com/measureme...scend_sierra1/

https://www.soundstage.com/index.php...=77&Itemid=153

But I still think based on AVS feeback that the Chane A5.4 might be the way to go.

Post in the Chane thread; some knowledgeable folks with a lot of prior quality speakers have stated the Chanes are the real deal.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...-s-thread.html

Very few pro reviews of Chanes out there, but this is an older one.

https://www.cnet.com/news/the-149-ch...od-to-be-true/
The pricing on the A5.4 is incredible...even without the end of year discounts they were running....a Pair of A5.4 for less than $1000....I wonder how their Center Channel measures up...
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post #183 of 197 Old 01-29-2019, 05:18 PM
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The pricing on the A5.4 is incredible...even without the end of year discounts they were running....a Pair of A5.4 for less than $1000....I wonder how their Center Channel measures up...
Well, if the 210's don't fit, they don't fit. However, if you can figure out how to make them fit, they are drastically superior to the Chanes. A 98 dB sensitive speaker is in a totally different league than a 90 dB speaker for home theater. It would take roughly 8x as much power to drive the Chanes to the same volume as the PSA 210's...this causes more distortion, more strain on amplification, reduced sound quality, harshness, and lack of ability to listen comfortably at spirited volumes. The PSA will play louder, cleaner, and drastically more dynamic with less power.

As far as the Klipsch in wall that were mentioned, I'm not familiar with them, but in walls always seemed like a compromised design to me, as net internal volume is extremely important in how a loudspeaker performs. In wall, how suitable is the enclosure? Is it the correct size optimized for the design of the speaker? Will the drywall enclosure attached with nails be inert and vibration/resonance free? What happens if you ever want to move the speakers? Upgrade? I don't know...just not a big fan of in walls....too many downsides imo. Also, Klipsch always drastically inflates their specs. Subtract at least 5 dB from whatever sensitivity numbers they claim. I couldn't buy a product from a company with such blatant false advertising.

Didn't you mention moving the TV's in a few inches was an option?
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post #184 of 197 Old 01-29-2019, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by crgzimbabwe View Post
The pricing on the A5.4 is incredible...even without the end of year discounts they were running....a Pair of A5.4 for less than $1000....I wonder how their Center Channel measures up...
Although I'm a big believer in value, and getting the most bang for one's buck, there's a reason you can't find REAL 98 db efficient speakers for $400....the components required as far as just the drivers alone just don't come that cheap. For home theater, high efficiency matters. No need to spend many thousands on amplification trying to push low efficiency speakers that will compress and distort when you can have loud, clear, dynamic sound from just a handful of watts and efficient speakers.
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post #185 of 197 Old 01-29-2019, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Well, if the 210's don't fit, they don't fit. However, if you can figure out how to make them fit, they are drastically superior to the Chanes. A 98 dB sensitive speaker is in a totally different league than a 90 dB speaker for home theater. It would take roughly 8x as much power to drive the Chanes to the same volume as the PSA 210's...this causes more distortion, more strain on amplification, reduced sound quality, harshness, and lack of ability to listen comfortably at spirited volumes. The PSA will play louder, cleaner, and drastically more dynamic with less power.

As far as the Klipsch in wall that were mentioned, I'm not familiar with them, but in walls always seemed like a compromised design to me, as net internal volume is extremely important in how a loudspeaker performs. In wall, how suitable is the enclosure? Is it the correct size optimized for the design of the speaker? Will the drywall enclosure attached with nails be inert and vibration/resonance free? What happens if you ever want to move the speakers? Upgrade? I don't know...just not a big fan of in walls....too many downsides imo. Also, Klipsch always drastically inflates their specs. Subtract at least 5 dB from whatever sensitivity numbers they claim. I couldn't buy a product from a company with such blatant false advertising.

Didn't you mention moving the TV's in a few inches was an option?
In walls have some big upsides too. You remove the front wall as a reflection point which is not trivial. You have a cleaner look. If you install a baffle wall you can see upwards of +6db in bass response.

A properly engineered in wall speaker in a properly engineered wall should not have unwanted resonances or vibrations.

To your point there are downsides (you can't easily move the speakees without patching drywall), they tend to cost more, etc. I've used in walls in many installations with really good results. I think it comes down to the room and preferences. Pros and cons to everything..
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post #186 of 197 Old 01-29-2019, 09:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Although I'm a big believer in value, and getting the most bang for one's buck, there's a reason you can't find REAL 98 db efficient speakers for $400....the components required as far as just the drivers alone just don't come that cheap. For home theater, high efficiency matters. No need to spend many thousands on amplification trying to push low efficiency speakers that will compress and distort when you can have loud, clear, dynamic sound from just a handful of watts and efficient speakers.

I hear you Bear. But the 210Ts just wont fit....Are there any other high efficiency Towers that are slim? Sierras, Aperion, ML Slimmer form factors...are all 92 db or lower. I'm not planning on running any external amps right now outside of what a Denon 6500 or an Anthem MRX-1120 has to offer....
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post #187 of 197 Old 01-29-2019, 09:59 PM - Thread Starter
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In walls have some big upsides too. You remove the front wall as a reflection point which is not trivial. You have a cleaner look. If you install a baffle wall you can see upwards of +6db in bass response.

A properly engineered in wall speaker in a properly engineered wall should not have unwanted resonances or vibrations.

To your point there are downsides (you can't easily move the speakees without patching drywall), they tend to cost more, etc. I've used in walls in many installations with really good results. I think it comes down to the room and preferences. Pros and cons to everything..
I'm not going to have a properly engineered wall....the wall is what it is.....I cant create a baffle wall as I have 3 TVs on the wall....the Projector screen will be motorized and drop in front of the TVs....Given the 3 TVs, the InWalls wont work for LCR. I can use inwalls for surrounds if needed. But not for LCR....

Should I just take say $1000-$1500 and use on of these acoustic design groups to help me setup the proper placement of speakers based on my front wall constraints and the proposed 2 rows of seating?
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post #188 of 197 Old 01-30-2019, 02:23 AM
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Would MT210's....bookshelf version work....mount them on low stands so they remain just under the TV's? Alternatively, raise the side TV's so that the top of all three displays are aligned rather than the bottom? Or perhaps center them on the center display from top to bottom? Raise all three a few inches? Just thinking out loud. Your going to have a really nice setup, hate for you to have to compromise so much on your front stage....the heart of the setup as far as sound goes.
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post #189 of 197 Old 01-30-2019, 08:07 AM
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The pricing on the A5.4 is incredible...even without the end of year discounts they were running....a Pair of A5.4 for less than $1000....I wonder how their Center Channel measures up...
The Chane A2.4 as a center channel has never had any detractors on AVS that I'm aware of.

As to the idea that everyone needs a 98db efficiency speaker for home theater in a living room I just don't buy it.

I got my first 5.1 system in 1989 in my living room which is about 40ft x 15ft and never had any issues with lack of headroom using quality speakers with 89db sensitivity.

I was sitting about 12 feet away from the speakers, not 40 feet away though.

That first system's front speakers were driven by a NAD7250PE receiver with 50 watts/channel crossed over to a powerful sub.

Never once ran out of headroom.

But some AVS members have much larger dedicated rooms with several rows of seats in a theater environment where perhaps that kind of speaker might make a ton more sense.

Talk to @jonlane , the owner of Chane, about your room and he'll give you an honest answer as to whether his products make sense for your needs.

Or you can talk to Tom at PSA about your needs and the fact that you can't fit his speakers; he's not afraid to recommend other brands that might better fit your needs as well.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #190 of 197 Old 01-30-2019, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Would MT210's....bookshelf version work....mount them on low stands so they remain just under the TV's? Alternatively, raise the side TV's so that the top of all three displays are aligned rather than the bottom? Or perhaps center them on the center display from top to bottom? Raise all three a few inches? Just thinking out loud. Your going to have a really nice setup, hate for you to have to compromise so much on your front stage....the heart of the setup as far as sound goes.
You make good points here. I think I will probably just hire an acoustics consultant to help me figure this out...I did this years ago with my home studio and even crappy speakers sounded great on my mixing room. I just know what I don't know. And I don't know enough to spend $10-$12k on speakers receivers and still make sure I have a good room for HT. Figured I might as well take a few $ here and use an experienced acoustic designer to evaluate my room and suggest speaker/seating placements and type of speakers given my constraints.
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post #191 of 197 Old 01-30-2019, 10:03 AM
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You make good points here. I think I will probably just hire an acoustics consultant to help me figure this out...I did this years ago with my home studio and even crappy speakers sounded great on my mixing room. I just know what I don't know. And I don't know enough to spend $10-$12k on speakers receivers and still make sure I have a good room for HT. Figured I might as well take a few $ here and use an experienced acoustic designer to evaluate my room and suggest speaker/seating placements and type of speakers given my constraints.
I recommend Nyal Mellor.

He advised a friend @dlbeck who had the best sounding room I've ever experienced (I've been in a ton of HT rooms over the years) and was featured in the Home Theater of the Month here on AVS.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/92-co...nth-savoy.html

I'm sure David would be happy to PM you any advice about how that went with working with Nyal.
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post #192 of 197 Old 01-30-2019, 10:05 AM
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Reading your post again, I don't see anything about treatments. Are you planning on any of that or just wanting advice on speakers/placement? Nyal gives advice on all that but equally important (if not more so) is the advice on treatments.
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post #193 of 197 Old 01-30-2019, 10:09 AM
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I recommend Nyal Mellor.

He advised a friend @dlbeck who had the best sounding room I've ever experienced (I've been in a ton of HT rooms over the years) and was featured in the Home Theater of the Month here on AVS.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/92-co...nth-savoy.html

I'm sure David would be happy to PM you any advice about how that went with working with Nyal.
I was going to recommend the same person.

This is his company:
http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/services/

He has some great stuff in his blog too.
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post #194 of 197 Old 01-30-2019, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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I recommend Nyal Mellor.

He advised a friend @dlbeck who had the best sounding room I've ever experienced (I've been in a ton of HT rooms over the years) and was featured in the Home Theater of the Month here on AVS.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/92-co...nth-savoy.html

I'm sure David would be happy to PM you any advice about how that went with working with Nyal.
That is an incredible build. I wont have that kind of cash to build that kind of HT with all of the acoustic treatments...
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post #195 of 197 Old 02-06-2019, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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I was going to recommend the same person.

This is his company:
http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/services/

He has some great stuff in his blog too.
Thank you.. I did contact him to find out the process, etc.
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post #196 of 197 Old 02-15-2019, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I would like to bring light to some of Prestige Audio’s posts.

While I did not agree with some of what he was saying at first, he did have some very good points as I was talking with him today.

The FV15HP’s are ever so slightly overkill. I think a better choice would be the FVX15’s which are $300 less each but the output is very close, negligible even. Even better would be two VTF3’s by HSU. All will have insane output for your theater but as you spend more and more of your budget on the subwoofers you take away from the speakers as prestige has said. You have multiple seating positions and a large viewing distance. You need very high caliber mains for this. I will suggest PSA speakers at this point. A 7.0 system with 210T’s for the LCR and 110’s as surrounds will put you at $6000. This leaves $4000 for receiver and subwoofers. How you go about this is up to you. You could do a Denon X4400H + 4 VTF3’s for $4000 or X6400H with two FVX15’s for $4000.

You can squeeze in the X6400H + PSA 7.0 + 2 FV15HP’s under $12000 which was the top of your range, but IMO that extra $2000 spent really won’t improve the sound all that much.

And the RSL in-ceilings are a good pick. Highly regarded on AVS. I myself do not have them, but talked with plenty of happy owners.
As I work through the room design, I was almost ready to pull the trigger on a 6400 or 6500 when I was offered the following opportunity to buy this barely used combo from a co-worker:

1) Integra DRC R1 AV Processor (used for 6 months) + brand new Emotiva XPA 11 - Gen 3 for $3000.

He is moving on to a Trinov set up...

Would the Integra DRC R1 + Emotiva XPA Gen 3 11 channels be a much better buy at $3000 than a ~$2000 Receiver like the Denon 6500?
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post #197 of 197 Old 02-15-2019, 02:26 PM
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As I work through the room design, I was almost ready to pull the trigger on a 6400 or 6500 when I was offered the following opportunity to buy this barely used combo from a co-worker:

1) Integra DRC R1 AV Processor (used for 6 months) + brand new Emotiva XPA 11 - Gen 3 for $3000.

He is moving on to a Trinov set up...

Would the Integra DRC R1 + Emotiva XPA Gen 3 11 channels be a much better buy at $3000 than a ~$2000 Receiver like the Denon 6500?
The processor is $1600 refurb, (2 year warranty on the refurb), $2500 new and the XPA 11 is $2000 new so technically you could buy them for $3600 so you are getting a 20 percent discount off the refurb processor/new amp combo.

And, yes, that is a very very powerful combo unmatched by any receiver but not sure AccuEQ is as good as Audyssey.

If you buy from your co-worker he has to e'mail Emotiva that he is transferring the 5 year warranty to you. Not sure what, if anything, he needs to do to transfer the 3 year Integra warranty to you.

But, he paid new pricing so he's giving you a significant discount.

I think it's a solid deal.

Geoff A. J., California
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