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$10k Budget for 7.2.4 Speakers and Receiver - Please help

13K views 196 replies 29 participants last post by  gajCA 
#1 ·
I posted a question about Receivers in the Receiver's thread thinking I was set with KEF T305s but I have been told I could do a lot better than that. Need suggestion from the pros here.

I have a new room for an "almost fully" dedicated HT with 2 rows of seating (also Gaming Room) (Room is 9'5"H x 15'5"W x 24'3" L). Set up is 3 Screens on one Wall (50" TV - 75" TV - 50" TV) each with its own XBOX ONE X so that my son and his buddies can play games at the same time (and me too sometimes and I can watch 3 games at same time on Sat and Sundays. PLUS a motorized large AT screen that drops in front of the TVs for Movies (to be played mainly from an Oppo UHD player, XBOX ONE X an sometimes from an Apple TV).

80% for Movies and 20% for Weekend Football/Soccer live events and some gaming.

I'm looking to put together a 7.2.4 ATMOS system and I'm shopping for a Receiver and Speakers Combo. On the Speakers front, given the 3 TVs are on the same wall, I only have space for thin on wall front speakers on L/R like SML XLs, Mythos, KEF t301s. I actually have 11 inches between each TV to hang a Speaker. The 3 TVs are all leveled at the bottom.

I was budgeting about $3500 for Receiver (Anthem MRX 1120 or Integra R1 or ?) and $6500 for Speakers.

I'm looking for suggestions on all 11 speakers and 2 Subs under my budget. The only ones that I need to be thin on wall speakers are the L and R Front Speakers that will go around a 75".


Your help is truly appreciated.

Thank you in advance...
 
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#2 ·
I think I have a better idea than a $3500 receiver. Why not a $800 Denon X4400H? Has processing for 11 channels and power for 9. Then you’d need an inexpensive 2 channel amp for a 7.2.4 system. We’ll put the cost at $1200 for those to be safe.

Then let’s move to subwoofers, because those are the most important. You should be allocating almost all of your budget here because it is the most important.

You should really consider going the DIY route because you can get some killer subs for quite cheaper than bought and will outperform them EASILY.

If not, I’m going to recommend you go 4 VTF3 MK5 Subwoofers for $3100 from HSU. You will have virtually no room peaks or nulls with 4 individually placed subwoofers.

Or you can do 4 Rythmik FVX15 subwoofers for $4400.

Both are great choices with the performance advantage going to the Rythmik’s and the value advantage going to the HSU’s. I would go with the Rythmik’s with your kind of budget. Or if you would really like to step it up, you could do 4 PSA V1811 subwoofers for $5800. This is definitely the best performance with the value level under the Rythmik option.

I will defer from making speaker recommendations at this point.

Good luck!
 
#4 ·
4 subs now Russdawg1? Spending a bit too much time over at the DIY section where everyone has 4-12 subs :D



Run...He's a madman!! :rolleyes:

Yeah... possibly... BUT! He has the budget for it...

And I may or may not be trying to design a portable speaker that has dual 12” subwoofers on it. That DIY section is intoxicating. I recommend you stop by sometime :)
 
#5 ·
Unless you really want Anthem Room correction software you could save a ton by going with the Denon 4400/4500 or if you don't want to bother running an extra amp by getting the Denon 6500.

On wall speakers will kind of be a compromise, probably the best for HT would something from Triad https://www.triadspeakers.com/product-tag/onwall/

Get a pair of Rythmik FV18s. RSL has some really good in ceiling speakers for Atmos.
 
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#6 ·
Unless you really want Anthem Room correction software you could save a ton by going with the Denon 4400/4500 or if you don't want to bother running an extra amp by getting the Denon 6500.

On wall speakers will kind of be a compromise, probably the best for HT would something from Triad

Get a pair of Rythmik FV18s. RSL has some really good in ceiling speakers for Atmos.
I have been told ARC would make it a lot easier to set up the room than Audissey, this is why I was focusing on an Anthem. Besides, it would be easier to compromise on a all in one box solution vs having external amps. But I get it, it might be better to invest in better speakers. Need to find the optimal compromise here.

Are the FV18s overkill for my room size? Should I start with the 2 Subwoofers and adjust the budget from there? I'm not a DYI'er. I only need on-walls for the Front R and L in order to fit cleanly (wife's request) between the 3 TVs which is why I was looking at something along the SML XL type of product. I need to check the Triads.

I was thinking of ML 50XT for a Center Speaker. Any Center Channel suggestions? Have no idea on Surrounds and the 4 in ceiling speakers for ATMOS.

Thank you.
 
#10 ·
You can go with 3 Paradigm Millennia 30's. They would meet your size requirements and would sound pretty darn good. Add dual HSU VTF-3 MK5's and you'll have a pretty nice setup. I would take the Anthem MRX over the Denon in a heartbeat if I had the budget for it.
https://www.paradigm.com/en/lcr/millenia-30
 
#12 ·
You can go with 3 Paradigm Millennia 30's. They would meet your size requirements and would sound pretty darn good. Add dual HSU VTF-3 MK5's and you'll have a pretty nice setup. I would take the Anthem MRX over the Denon in a heartbeat if I had the budget for it.
So this is where I am at this point. Any suggestions/changes here?

Exactly at about $10K:

Subs: 2 x Rythmik FV18
FRONT LCR: 3 x Paradigm Millennia 30 LCR
Surrounds: 4 x Martin Logan EM Motion FX2
Height: 4 x RSL C34E
Receiver: Denon AVR-X6500H

OR

Replace the 3 x Paradigm Millenia 30 LCR with:
CENTER: 1 x Martin Loan Motion 50XT
LR: 2 x Martin Logan Motion SLM XL

OR

Replace the Front 3 with 3 x Triad Onwall Bronze LCR

All Three set ups will run about $10k. Going to $11.5K if the 6500H is replaced with a MRX-1120.

Any suggestions/changes here?
 
#14 ·
FV18s are going to dig much deeper and are a different class of sub. I'd take two over four of the other despite the advantage 4 subs brings over 2 and even though the MK5s are good subs and value leaders. But reasonable minds could disagree depending on how much you value chasing deep bass.
 
#18 ·
^ I believe it was Geddes that advocated for cascading crossovers using Behringer units? Newer approaches sum the subs to mono and use a single crossover. Don't have experience with the former.
 
#20 ·
Check out the Triad owners thread here on AVS. Lots of great info there.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Second this. It may be a bit more barebones on the little features that add up on units like the Denons, but it will make up for it in sound quality. Dirac Live will give you better frequency response and imaging than the other AVRs mentioned here that do not use Dirac.

The slim on-walls up front may really limit things, but it depends on the design.

Maybe there's something I don't know about this room, but if you have 11 inches between each screen for speakers, why can't they be floor standing or stand mount speakers?

Hard (for me) to justify the ML surrounds when Emotiva makes a very similar speaker for 35% of the cost for a pair. Though, how much output do you need?

Chane will release their A4.4 this year, which should be a solid surround speaker. Keep an eye on those.

I also second the Rythmik FVX15 sub recommendation - and they have a multi-sub discount, so they would actually be $4196 for 4. The best bang for the buck from one of the best sub makers. Though I think you'd be fine with 3. You will need a MiniDSP 2x4 HD to time align the subs.

I do see a problem with the Martin Logan on-walls. Their frequency response extends to only 100Hz due to the thin cabinets. That means choosing a crossover is going to be tough - ideally you want speakers that can perform one octave below your crossover, so a speaker crossed at 80Hz to subs should have a -3dB point of 40Hz. For a speaker capable of only 100Hz, you can do the math, but the highest I would want to go is 120Hz on the crossover, and don't place them near your seats. That means you may be better off with a paper cone Rythmik. I would inquire about that if interested.
 
#28 ·
This is a dedicated media room, right? It's not like it's a living room, where I can see that kind of compromise. But I understand...happy wife, happy life...

I think getting speakers with lower extension is the right idea, so the Triads do look better. I am looking at their site and I see Bronze and Platinum, but no Silver or Gold OnWall LCR? Strange.
 
#30 ·
What about inwall speakers, is that an option? You can also go with three inceiling speakers for your LCR with angled baffles, you will get good imaging and soundstage with this type of solution. Example:
https://totemacoustic.com/en/kin-in-ceiling-angled

Or this:
https://www.triadspeakers.com/products/home-cinema/inceiling-silver8-lcr/

Both excellent speakers with very good dynamics.


I would not spend crazy money on a receiver (i.e more than $1500 or so). Receiver technology is constantly changing with new audio and video codec support as well as new HDMI standards. That NAD receiver with DIRAC (you will need a cheap external amp to power the additional 2 Atmos speakers) is a good choice. Or Denon.

For me, in order of importance, I would emphasize front three speakers (think about it this is where all the dialogue and primary sound is coming from), and then subwoofers and then surrounds and receiver.

You have a very good budget, you should have no problem making this work.
 
#34 ·
Actually, Triad will make a custom speaker (at additional cost) for any of their models. So if you want an on-wall Silver or Gold speaker it can be done.
 
#38 ·
So, just had a conversation with the Wife and we might have a solution. Just not sure it would work for the speaker placement.

See attached Picture.

We can Squeeze in the two 50" TV to the middle so that they just 2" off the 75" TV. This would free up 9" to the sides of the 50" TV and with the original 5" I had between the TVs and the Wall I would have 14" of clearance between 50" TVs and Walls.

This would make it possible (space wise) to put a thinner Floor Standing Speaker like a Motion 40 to the Left and Right of the 50" TVs. Then I would go with a 30 or 50XT for the Center.

My question under this scenario is if the distance between the 2 Front L and R speakers would be too much? It would be 162". I'm assuming I would have to tilt them to center a little. I just don't want to be in a position where every time I want to watch a movie, I have to adjust those Speakers out and towards the Center.
 

Attachments

#40 ·
For best imaging you want to stay close to an equilateral triangle. This can be +/- a little and still be okay. What is your seating distance to the speakers?

The MLM 40 will probably perform better than the onwalls, but I wonder if you'll have enough room for the rear port? Not many speakers have a front port, though.
 
#41 ·
GOlden78 and you had the same question.
At this point, I can make it be whatever I wanted it to be given the limitations of my room. The room is 9'5"H x 15'5"W x 24'3" L and we would like two rows of seating. I also plan on eventually adding a 4k Projector and the largest 2:35 motorized projection screen that would fit that room properly.

I'm not tied to M40s. I just thought that if I had some room on both sides under this scenario I could do a floorstanding speaker. But yes, i'm not familiar with all of these products, so I don't know if all of these speakers are rear ported?
 
#42 ·
I can vouch for dual Rythmik FV-18 Subs... I put in a 7.2.4 Atmos home theater this summer in a room that's 12.5' wide, 22.5' long w/ 8' ceilings.... I used RBH Signature speakers for everything but the subs and love the results (although I'm still tweaking things constantly, for fun)...

I put 1 sub in the front right corner, and one in the center of the back wall (not necessarily the optimal placement, but one that looks good and keeps the wife happy'ish)... one of these days, I'll try moving the rear sub into each corner to see how that changes the bass, but at this point, I'm very happy with the setup...

Other thoughts... the FV-18's are BIG and HEAVY... regardless of which subs you choose, make sure you measure closely to ensure they fit into your space... while mine fit in my space, their size changed what we could do with the space in the back of the room... had to take out the game table, and just installed media racks instead so there's a bit of open space now (which isn't necessarily a bad thing)...

Good Luck!
 
#51 ·
#67 · (Edited)
Hi @crgzimbabwe,

First off, I'd just like to say cheers to a fellow musician. :)

I've been following your thread, and there have been some great suggestions given thus far. Although, I believe that there have been some other things that haven't been taken into consideration.

You stated that your screens are mounted 39-40" off of the floor, and you didn't think that you'd be able fit the FV18's in there due to said height. Actually, you should be able to fit them easily with 6-7" to spare, as they measure 33" H. I mention this because having 18" subs will yield you a much better result having the larger cones. Plus, you'll eliminate the dreaded "what ifs". Lol

Also, I don't believe that the height of the L/R speakers have really been taken into account. You mentioned that you were concerned with the enclosures sticking out too far (I'm assuming this is for people sitting furthur away from the center of the room), and that you'd prefer to have a thinner style of speaker due to this. The point here is that you don't (and really shouldn't) have to hang your speakers that high above the listening position. They should be placed/mounted so that the tweeter is at ear level. Example: I have Hsu HB1 bookshelves, and they are mounted with the tweeter/horn at 35" (my ear level). That puts the top of the speaker at 39.5". Therefore, I don't believe that you'll have to worry about being tied down to a specific type of speaker. Such as having to go with the slimline design. This should open up more options for you, and help prevent from having to move your screens in order to be able to place towers really far apart and stuffed in a corner.

As far as whether or not the speakers are rear ported shouldn't really hold too much of a bearing for HT use since you will be running separate subs. Besides, if you feel the need to do some 2 channel music listening, you can always pull them away from the wall. Of course that's assuming that you wind up with towers or a stand mount setup.

With that said, you should be able to look into bookshelves, MTM, towers, in-wall, on-wall, etc.. And FWIW...with having separate subs doing the heavy lifting, it's really not neccessary to have towers.

Regardless of the direction you go, just keep in mind that your front soundstage (namely the center channel) and your subs are the first things to focus on. Don't skimp on those. And if it's possible to do some in-home auditions, that would be highly recommened. Things tend to sound different in YOUR room vs. others.

And if you're ever concerned with subs being too big, think of it this way. It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. Besides, you can always turn them down. But you if you limit yourself, you rob yourself of the fun of getting to turn them up. :D

For Atmos, I'd definitely go with the RSL C34E in-ceilng. Those seem to be one of the most regarded in-ceiling speakers for this application.

For AVR...I'd personally go with the Denon X6400/X6500 as it is an 11.2 ch. AVR, and will give you the capability to EQ multiple subs with Audyssey XT32. That's one of the biggest advantages with using Audyssey.

The most important thing here is, it's your money, your time, and your home. BUT, most importantly...your wife. Lol


I hope at least some of this helps. ;)


Darrell
 
#68 · (Edited)
As an A/V integrator who designs and builds theaters for a living, I'm not sure I love these system ideas/concepts. You have a healthy budget and some interesting requirements, so I'l take a shot at it for you....

Perhaps I missed discussion of where the surrounds/ATMOS are all going? I would recommend in-wall &/or in-ceiling rears wherever applicable in this case. This would be a cost savings and you would suffer no discernible difference in quality.

Here's a system that carries an MSRP of $14,499, should be able to be purchased for your $10K budget and all around crushes what has been suggested.

- FRONT 3 ON WALL: James Loudspeaker 680OW MSRP: $2,500/ea x 3 = $7,500
2.75" DEPTH, Beryllium Quad Tweeters https://www.jamesloudspeaker.com/products/68

NOTE: There is a model below this as an option that would be a little less $. I'm going with the bigger speaker here because it still fits in your budget. I'm a Totem dealer and these destroy the Tribes as in-wall or on-walls for theater use.

- SURROUNDS & ATMOS (Guessing you can do in-wall or in-ceiling. Again, I missed it if you had a space requirement): KEF Ci-200QR (This is the in-ceiling model, but they have in-walls in this as well for the same money) MSRP: $375/EA x 8 = $3,000 http://us.kef.com/ci200qr
Uuni-Q design from KEF is perfect for ATMOS & Surround duties. 8" Woofer with 1" tweeter.

- SUBS: Klipsch R115-SW MSRP $899 x 2 = $1,798
15" Sub. https://www.klipsch.com/products/reference-subwoofers?model=r-115sw


- RECEIVER: Denon AVR-X6500 MSRP $2,199
https://usa.denon.com/us/product/hometheater/receivers/avrx6500h
11.2 Channel AVR

Total MSRP $14,497

Should be able to be gotten for $10,000

This system of on-walls with surround/ATMOS in-walls would be outstanding in your room. Quick notes on why I chose this gear...

- Mains: Outstanding manufacturer in James Loudspeaker. Their unique quad tweeter array will sound huge in your room. Killer on-wall speaker that plays larger and cleaner than what it is..

- Surrounds/ATMOS: 8" woofers with play loud and clean. Uni-Q drivers in the KEF are an outstanding option for this type of speaker.

- Subs: I went with the 15" Klipsch because I thought they were a strong value. Listed down to 18hz, I'm not sure how much more going down to 15hz or whatever is worth. I wouldn't think anything in all practical terms of your room and listening habits. That Klipsch at $900 is $400 less PER SPEAKER than the 15s others have recommended and I would contend the performance in your room would be virtually the same. Going strictly by MSRP and not taking any discounts into account, that's $800 you can put into other aspects of your system where you would see tangible benefits much more often and with all content/listening.

- Receiver: I'm not one to sit here and gloss poetically about receiver X over receiver Y or whatever. I think that they all have plus and minus against each other in their given price points. The Denon 6500 is well equipped for your system with modern video processing, a good calibration software (I don't use or get too hyped over the software sets in receivers, personally as I do not tend to use them), and will provide enough reliable power. Add in that it comes packed with Denon's whole house HEOS music streaming service and you have a really great product perfect for your room.
 
#69 ·
As an A/V integrator who designs and builds theaters for a living, I'm not sure I love these system ideas/concepts.

Perhaps I missed discussion of where the surrounds/atmos are all going? I would recommend in-wall &/or in-ceiling rears wherever applicable in this case. This would be a cost savings and you would suffer no discernible difference in quality.

Here's a system that carries an MSRP of $14,499, should be able to be purchased for your $10K budget and all around crushes what has been suggested.

- FRONT 3 ON WALL: James Loudspeaker 680OW MSRP: $2,500/ea x 3 = $7,500
2.75" DEPTH, Beryllium Quad Tweeters https://www.jamesloudspeaker.com/products/68

- SURROUNDS & ATMOS (Guessing you can do in-wall or in-ceiling. Again, I missed it if you had a space requirement): KEF Ci-200QR (This is the in-ceiling model, but they have in-walls in this as well for the same money) MSRP: $375/EA x 8 = $3,000 http://us.kef.com/ci200qr
Uuni-Q design from KEF is perfect for ATMOS & Surround duties. 8" Woofer with 1" tweeter.

- SUBS: Klipsch R115-SW MSRP $899 x 2 = $1,798
15" Sub. https://www.klipsch.com/products/reference-subwoofers?model=r-115sw


- RECEIVER: Denon AVR-X6500 MSRP $2,199
https://usa.denon.com/us/product/hometheater/receivers/avrx6500h
11.2 Channel AVR

Total MSRP $14,497

Should be able to be gotten for $10,000

This system of on-walls with surround/ATMOS in-walls would be outstanding in your room.
Prestige, thank you for the input. really nice to hear from a pro like you.

My room Is Room is 9'5"H x 15'5"W x 24'3" L). Set up is 3 Screens on one Wall (50" TV - 75" TV - 50" TV) this is why I was looking into on-walls between the TVs. As mentioned earlier, I can also put some skinnier Towers on the Side of the TVs if I squeeze them together. Besides this Front Wall constraint, I have total flexibility with the rest of the room (4x in-ceilings for ATMOS, 4 surrounds that can be onwall, inwall, bookshelf or whatever). The seating location has not been determined yet, but will have 2 rows. I can adjust them as needed to optimum viewing distances.

How would a system like you suggested compare to a system like this which will ne inline price wise with what you suggested:

2 x Sierra Towers w Raal.
1 x Sierra Horizon Center w Raal
2 x FV15HPs Subs
4 x RSL C34Es
4 x (pick your surround set)
1x MRX-1120 or if wife complains too much about pricing, just go for a Denon x6500 and remove the Raal options ($1000).
 
#74 ·
Yeah maybe I can see those taking offense to a “dealer” post but on the up side he has not outwardly asked to get involved like many that use AVS as a billboard.

In addition a dealer has many advantages being exposed to multiple brands, trade shows and various installations. So thier input is a plus IMHO. Keep in mind this comes from a dealer (part time only, I sell automation software as my primary day job).

Why is Hallmark the best greeting card? Because they have been saying so for a long time. That said just because it is not drooled over on AVS does not make it a bad choice. Case in point, Tannoy gets very little love here but they are an excellent speaker.
 
#75 · (Edited)
If this is a mixture of home theater and music use, I'd have to suggest looking at PSA's line of high efficiency speakers for you front stage. The Ascend, imo, are great speakers for music, but not sure if they would hold up with the dynamics needed for spirited home theater play back in a pretty good sized room.

https://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/speakers

The high efficiency nature of these speakers will allow them to achieve clean, powerful dynamics with very little power requirement from your AVR. 1/4th the power of the Ascends for PSA's least efficient speaker. 60 day trial period, although you may have to eat return shipping.

Again, I really like Ascend, alot, despite having never heard them. Im a big fan of the detailed measurements that Ascend posts on their site, and I think they offer a tremendous amount of value and quality based on the price. Just not sure they are the perfect solution for home theater/music combo given the advantages of higher efficiency(truly higher efficiency, not falsely inflated like Klipsch) speakers.

These aren't the smallest dimensions out there, but size limitations also limit performance, and these are not HUGE speakers.
https://www.hometheatershack.com/fo...power-sound-audio-mtm-210-speaker-review.html
 
#77 ·
@PrestigeAudio

Most of the budget should be spent on quality subwoofers. That is known. 13% of the OP’s budget is not enough to say the least. You can have the greatest mains in the world but if you have crappy ULF, there’s no reason to watch a movie. Spending more on the FV15HP’s is well justified and I do not believe that the difference in performance is as small as you make it seem. Servo technology does not count for nothing. If those Klipsch subwoofers tried to play what the Rythmik’s were capable of, they will chuff insanely loud and distortion would be off the charts.

I will say that I was out of my league regarding the Sierra Towers vs James Towers but I stand by my Anthem and Rythmik statements.
 
#79 ·
While bass is the hardest thing to get right in any room, it is incorrect and ridiculous to say that most of a budget should be spend on subs with a $10k budget. What do you mean "That is known." By whom is that known or to whom is that some sort of system design rule of thumb? On super Entry level, budget oriented systems I can understand where a strong sub budgetary % would be critical as a cheap sub could be detrimental and distracting. But, the Klipsch 15 (playing down to 18hz - 110db at 20hz) isn't some dumpy POS. You're speaking as if it's some $300 Sony 8" Best Buy junk.

The 13% of the budget I referenced was only the DIFFERENCE between the two different subs cost. The Rhythmics would be 28% of the system's $10,000 budget for an 11.2 channel system + receiver. That is out of whack and a waste of $ because you have to sacrifice the quality of the 11 other speakers to come in at or under budget.

Servo subs have been around decades and are nothing new. Some companies use that design with great result, and others don't with great result. Servo isn't some silver bullet magical sub tech.

Please explain why the Klipsch speakers will "chuffed insanely loud" and it's "distortion would be off the charts". This needs fleshed out and explained or else you're just parroting things you've heard or read on forums or marketing pieces.

Avsforum did a review on it here https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.av...ubwoofer-official-avs-forum-review.html?amp=1

There are a ton of great subs out there, but at some point the bass is going to be correct for the room and you appropriate dollars to other portions of the system. Everyone values different things, however, right? I mean, some guys have car stereos worth a disproportionate amount to the cost of their car. They aren't wrong for doing so. It's their car. It takes different kinds to make the world go round.
 
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