$10k Budget for 7.2.4 Speakers and Receiver - Please help - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 197 Old 01-15-2019, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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$10k Budget for 7.2.4 Speakers and Receiver - Please help

I posted a question about Receivers in the Receiver's thread thinking I was set with KEF T305s but I have been told I could do a lot better than that. Need suggestion from the pros here.

I have a new room for an "almost fully" dedicated HT with 2 rows of seating (also Gaming Room) (Room is 9'5"H x 15'5"W x 24'3" L). Set up is 3 Screens on one Wall (50" TV - 75" TV - 50" TV) each with its own XBOX ONE X so that my son and his buddies can play games at the same time (and me too sometimes and I can watch 3 games at same time on Sat and Sundays. PLUS a motorized large AT screen that drops in front of the TVs for Movies (to be played mainly from an Oppo UHD player, XBOX ONE X an sometimes from an Apple TV).

80% for Movies and 20% for Weekend Football/Soccer live events and some gaming.

I'm looking to put together a 7.2.4 ATMOS system and I'm shopping for a Receiver and Speakers Combo. On the Speakers front, given the 3 TVs are on the same wall, I only have space for thin on wall front speakers on L/R like SML XLs, Mythos, KEF t301s. I actually have 11 inches between each TV to hang a Speaker. The 3 TVs are all leveled at the bottom.

I was budgeting about $3500 for Receiver (Anthem MRX 1120 or Integra R1 or ?) and $6500 for Speakers.

I'm looking for suggestions on all 11 speakers and 2 Subs under my budget. The only ones that I need to be thin on wall speakers are the L and R Front Speakers that will go around a 75".


Your help is truly appreciated.

Thank you in advance...
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post #2 of 197 Old 01-15-2019, 12:56 PM
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I think I have a better idea than a $3500 receiver. Why not a $800 Denon X4400H? Has processing for 11 channels and power for 9. Then you’d need an inexpensive 2 channel amp for a 7.2.4 system. We’ll put the cost at $1200 for those to be safe.

Then let’s move to subwoofers, because those are the most important. You should be allocating almost all of your budget here because it is the most important.

You should really consider going the DIY route because you can get some killer subs for quite cheaper than bought and will outperform them EASILY.

If not, I’m going to recommend you go 4 VTF3 MK5 Subwoofers for $3100 from HSU. You will have virtually no room peaks or nulls with 4 individually placed subwoofers.

Or you can do 4 Rythmik FVX15 subwoofers for $4400.

Both are great choices with the performance advantage going to the Rythmik’s and the value advantage going to the HSU’s. I would go with the Rythmik’s with your kind of budget. Or if you would really like to step it up, you could do 4 PSA V1811 subwoofers for $5800. This is definitely the best performance with the value level under the Rythmik option.

I will defer from making speaker recommendations at this point.

Good luck!

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #3 of 197 Old 01-15-2019, 01:10 PM
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4 subs now Russdawg1? Spending a bit too much time over at the DIY section where everyone has 4-12 subs

Run...He's a madman!!
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post #4 of 197 Old 01-15-2019, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by cocrh View Post
4 subs now Russdawg1? Spending a bit too much time over at the DIY section where everyone has 4-12 subs



Run...He's a madman!!

Yeah... possibly... BUT! He has the budget for it...

And I may or may not be trying to design a portable speaker that has dual 12” subwoofers on it. That DIY section is intoxicating. I recommend you stop by sometime

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #5 of 197 Old 01-15-2019, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crgzimbabwe View Post
I posted a question about Receivers in the Receiver's thread thinking I was set with KEF T305s but I have been told I could do a lot better than that. Need suggestion from the pros here.

I have a new room for an "almost fully" dedicated HT with 2 rows of seating (also Gaming Room) (Room is 9'5"H x 15'5"W x 24'3" L). Set up is 3 Screens on one Wall (50" TV - 75" TV - 50" TV) each with its own XBOX ONE X so that my son and his buddies can play games at the same time (and me too sometimes and I can watch 3 games at same time on Sat and Sundays. PLUS a motorized large AT screen that drops in front of the TVs for Movies (to be played mainly from an Oppo UHD player, XBOX ONE X an sometimes from an Apple TV).

80% for Movies and 20% for Weekend Football/Soccer live events and some gaming.

I'm looking to put together a 7.2.4 ATMOS system and I'm shopping for a Receiver and Speakers Combo. On the Speakers front, given the 3 TVs are on the same wall, I only have space for thin on wall front speakers on L/R like SML XLs, Mythos, KEF t301s. I actually have 11 inches between each TV to hang a Speaker. The 3 TVs are all leveled at the bottom.

I was budgeting about $3500 for Receiver (Anthem MRX 1120 or Integra R1 or ?) and $6500 for Speakers.

I'm looking for suggestions on all 11 speakers and 2 Subs under my budget. The only ones that I need to be thin on wall speakers are the L and R Front Speakers that will go around a 75".


Your help is truly appreciated.

Thank you in advance...
Unless you really want Anthem Room correction software you could save a ton by going with the Denon 4400/4500 or if you don't want to bother running an extra amp by getting the Denon 6500.

On wall speakers will kind of be a compromise, probably the best for HT would something from Triad https://www.triadspeakers.com/product-tag/onwall/

Get a pair of Rythmik FV18s. RSL has some really good in ceiling speakers for Atmos.
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post #6 of 197 Old 01-15-2019, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
Unless you really want Anthem Room correction software you could save a ton by going with the Denon 4400/4500 or if you don't want to bother running an extra amp by getting the Denon 6500.

On wall speakers will kind of be a compromise, probably the best for HT would something from Triad

Get a pair of Rythmik FV18s. RSL has some really good in ceiling speakers for Atmos.
I have been told ARC would make it a lot easier to set up the room than Audissey, this is why I was focusing on an Anthem. Besides, it would be easier to compromise on a all in one box solution vs having external amps. But I get it, it might be better to invest in better speakers. Need to find the optimal compromise here.

Are the FV18s overkill for my room size? Should I start with the 2 Subwoofers and adjust the budget from there? I'm not a DYI'er. I only need on-walls for the Front R and L in order to fit cleanly (wife's request) between the 3 TVs which is why I was looking at something along the SML XL type of product. I need to check the Triads.

I was thinking of ML 50XT for a Center Speaker. Any Center Channel suggestions? Have no idea on Surrounds and the 4 in ceiling speakers for ATMOS.

Thank you.
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post #7 of 197 Old 01-15-2019, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crgzimbabwe View Post
I have been told ARC would make it a lot easier to set up the room than Audissey, this is why I was focusing on an Anthem. Besides, it would be easier to compromise on a all in one box solution vs having external amps. But I get it, it might be better to invest in better speakers. Need to find the optimal compromise here.

Are the FV18s overkill for my room size? Should I start with the 2 Subwoofers and adjust the budget from there? I'm not a DYI'er. I only need on-walls for the Front R and L in order to fit cleanly (wife's request) between the 3 TVs which is why I was looking at something along the SML XL type of product. I need to check the Triads.

I was thinking of ML 50XT for a Center Speaker. Any Center Channel suggestions? Have no idea on Surrounds and the 4 in ceiling speakers for ATMOS.

Thank you.
FV18 would be great-- Also JTR 118 HT

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post #8 of 197 Old 01-15-2019, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crgzimbabwe View Post
I have been told ARC would make it a lot easier to set up the room than Audissey, this is why I was focusing on an Anthem. Besides, it would be easier to compromise on a all in one box solution vs having external amps. But I get it, it might be better to invest in better speakers. Need to find the optimal compromise here.

Are the FV18s overkill for my room size? Should I start with the 2 Subwoofers and adjust the budget from there? I'm not a DYI'er. I only need on-walls for the Front R and L in order to fit cleanly (wife's request) between the 3 TVs which is why I was looking at something along the SML XL type of product. I need to check the Triads.

I was thinking of ML 50XT for a Center Speaker. Any Center Channel suggestions? Have no idea on Surrounds and the 4 in ceiling speakers for ATMOS.

Thank you.
Given that size room the FV18s would not be overkill (no such thing on this forum anyhow )

Triad makes good stuff, Martin logan SLM speakers would work, crutchfield on wall speakers https://www.crutchfield.com/S-VJtG2G...ers.html?&pg=4
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post #9 of 197 Old 01-15-2019, 06:47 PM
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Are the FV18s overkill for my room size? Should I start with the 2 Subwoofers and adjust the budget from there?
No. Maybe.

2 FV18s would be a great start; 4 subs in the corners of a rectangular room is usually considered ideal (some will argue for 4 on the side walls). I would not hesitate starting with 2 FV18s and adding more later if you don't want to pop for 4 right out of the gate.
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post #10 of 197 Old 01-15-2019, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crgzimbabwe View Post
I posted a question about Receivers in the Receiver's thread thinking I was set with KEF T305s but I have been told I could do a lot better than that. Need suggestion from the pros here.

I have a new room for an "almost fully" dedicated HT with 2 rows of seating (also Gaming Room) (Room is 9'5"H x 15'5"W x 24'3" L). Set up is 3 Screens on one Wall (50" TV - 75" TV - 50" TV) each with its own XBOX ONE X so that my son and his buddies can play games at the same time (and me too sometimes and I can watch 3 games at same time on Sat and Sundays. PLUS a motorized large AT screen that drops in front of the TVs for Movies (to be played mainly from an Oppo UHD player, XBOX ONE X an sometimes from an Apple TV).

80% for Movies and 20% for Weekend Football/Soccer live events and some gaming.

I'm looking to put together a 7.2.4 ATMOS system and I'm shopping for a Receiver and Speakers Combo. On the Speakers front, given the 3 TVs are on the same wall, I only have space for thin on wall front speakers on L/R like SML XLs, Mythos, KEF t301s. I actually have 11 inches between each TV to hang a Speaker. The 3 TVs are all leveled at the bottom.

I was budgeting about $3500 for Receiver (Anthem MRX 1120 or Integra R1 or ?) and $6500 for Speakers.

I'm looking for suggestions on all 11 speakers and 2 Subs under my budget. The only ones that I need to be thin on wall speakers are the L and R Front Speakers that will go around a 75".


Your help is truly appreciated.

Thank you in advance...
You can go with 3 Paradigm Millennia 30's. They would meet your size requirements and would sound pretty darn good. Add dual HSU VTF-3 MK5's and you'll have a pretty nice setup. I would take the Anthem MRX over the Denon in a heartbeat if I had the budget for it.
https://www.paradigm.com/en/lcr/millenia-30

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post #11 of 197 Old 01-15-2019, 06:53 PM
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I have been told ARC would make it a lot easier to set up the room than Audissey, this is why I was focusing on an Anthem.
Maybe. Maybe not. You want room correction for the subs below Schroeder for sure; above Schroeder is debatable. Some people report better results with different room correction over others but I have not really seen much objective data comparing different brands and its hard to judge based solely on subjective anecdotal reports. Personally my philosophy is don't overspend on electronics.
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post #12 of 197 Old 01-15-2019, 10:03 PM - Thread Starter
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You can go with 3 Paradigm Millennia 30's. They would meet your size requirements and would sound pretty darn good. Add dual HSU VTF-3 MK5's and you'll have a pretty nice setup. I would take the Anthem MRX over the Denon in a heartbeat if I had the budget for it.
So this is where I am at this point. Any suggestions/changes here?

Exactly at about $10K:

Subs: 2 x Rythmik FV18
FRONT LCR: 3 x Paradigm Millennia 30 LCR
Surrounds: 4 x Martin Logan EM Motion FX2
Height: 4 x RSL C34E
Receiver: Denon AVR-X6500H

OR

Replace the 3 x Paradigm Millenia 30 LCR with:
CENTER: 1 x Martin Loan Motion 50XT
LR: 2 x Martin Logan Motion SLM XL

OR

Replace the Front 3 with 3 x Triad Onwall Bronze LCR

All Three set ups will run about $10k. Going to $11.5K if the 6500H is replaced with a MRX-1120.

Any suggestions/changes here?
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Could also replace both Rythmic FV18s with 4 HSU VTF-3 MK5's as indicated above....
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post #14 of 197 Old 01-15-2019, 10:33 PM
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Could also replace both Rythmic FV18s with 4 HSU VTF-3 MK5's as indicated above....
FV18s are going to dig much deeper and are a different class of sub. I'd take two over four of the other despite the advantage 4 subs brings over 2 and even though the MK5s are good subs and value leaders. But reasonable minds could disagree depending on how much you value chasing deep bass.
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Could also replace both Rythmic FV18s with 4 HSU VTF-3 MK5's as indicated above....
If you go with the Rythmic FV18's go with the Paper Cone Version.

From their website:

For those who are after the maximum headroom in HT application may consider the paper cone version FV18SW (with paper cone SW1825).
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post #16 of 197 Old 01-15-2019, 10:59 PM
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Could also replace both Rythmic FV18s with 4 HSU VTF-3 MK5's as indicated above....

It’s very important to remove room nulls and peaks because it’s very evident when you have multiple seating positions, especially when they are spaced out. 2 would remove most, 4 would remove almost all. 8 I think is safe to say would provide near perfect bass distribution.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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It’s very important to remove room nulls and peaks because it’s very evident when you have multiple seating positions, especially when they are spaced out. 2 would remove most, 4 would remove almost all. 8 I think is safe to say would provide near perfect bass distribution.

With room correction below Schroeder, the goal with multiples is to both increase output and get even bass through all the seats (note, even does not necessarily mean flat) so that room correction can work for a whole area and not just the MLP (because the subs are eq'd as one unit, unless you have a sophisticated MSO program and a lot of time).

In a rectangular room, 2 subs is usually substantially better than 1, and 4 subs is usually better than 2 (but not that much better than 2), and any more than 4 offers greatly diminishing returns, at least according to Welti and Devantier (and Toole).

https://www.harman.com/sites/default...multsubs_0.pdf (skip to the end for the spoiler).

Geddes opines that 3 is optimal and has a different approach to placement.

http://www.gedlee.com/Papers/multiple%20subs.pdf

Quick summary of the two approaches:

http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/201...devantie-html/

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^ I believe it was Geddes that advocated for cascading crossovers using Behringer units? Newer approaches sum the subs to mono and use a single crossover. Don't have experience with the former.

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post #19 of 197 Old 01-16-2019, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by crgzimbabwe View Post
So this is where I am at this point. Any suggestions/changes here?

Exactly at about $10K:

Subs: 2 x Rythmik FV18
FRONT LCR: 3 x Paradigm Millennia 30 LCR
Surrounds: 4 x Martin Logan EM Motion FX2
Height: 4 x RSL C34E
Receiver: Denon AVR-X6500H

OR

Replace the 3 x Paradigm Millenia 30 LCR with:
CENTER: 1 x Martin Loan Motion 50XT
LR: 2 x Martin Logan Motion SLM XL

OR

Replace the Front 3 with 3 x Triad Onwall Bronze LCR

All Three set ups will run about $10k. Going to $11.5K if the 6500H is replaced with a MRX-1120.

Any suggestions/changes here?
You could go with dual HSU VTF-3's or Rhthmik FV15's which would be plenty to fill the room and would provide a very enjoyable listening experience. I'd go with the Paradigm if it was my room.

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Check out the Triad owners thread here on AVS. Lots of great info there.

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^ I believe it was Geddes that advocated for cascading crossovers using Behringer units? Newer approaches sum the subs to mono and use a single crossover. Don't have experience with the former.
I have read through some Geddes work but not all that closely. One of my general goals is to reduce system complexity where possible and I try and resist getting sucked down complex rabbit holes.
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You could go with dual HSU VTF-3's or Rhthmik FV15's which would be plenty to fill the room and would provide a very enjoyable listening experience. I'd go with the Paradigm if it was my room.
Just realized I prob wont be able to go for the 2 x FV18s. Didn't realize how much of a monster those Subs were size wise. My 3 TVs on the wall are set up at roughly -39-40 inches from the Floor. Those subs will barely fit in those front wall corners height wise. I could put them both in the back corners, but I'm not sure if this would be appropriate. If not, then I will need to scale it down to two 15's.
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post #23 of 197 Old 01-16-2019, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by crgzimbabwe View Post
Just realized I prob wont be able to go for the 2 x FV18s. Didn't realize how much of a monster those Subs were size wise. My 3 TVs on the wall are set up at roughly -39-40 inches from the Floor. Those subs will barely fit in those front wall corners height wise. I could put them both in the back corners, but I'm not sure if this would be appropriate. If not, then I will need to scale it down to two 15's.
Subs don't have a predetermined spots, though one up front and one in the opposite corner at the back usually works pretty well . You have more placement flexibility with dual subs, but you should still do a sub crawl to determine where your sub(s) will sound best. Every room is different so placement may vary from room to room.
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How about the NAD T758v3 with Dirac, a solid speaker set and a four ID sub array?
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How about the NAD T758v3 with Dirac, a solid speaker set and a four ID sub array?
Second this. It may be a bit more barebones on the little features that add up on units like the Denons, but it will make up for it in sound quality. Dirac Live will give you better frequency response and imaging than the other AVRs mentioned here that do not use Dirac.

The slim on-walls up front may really limit things, but it depends on the design.

Maybe there's something I don't know about this room, but if you have 11 inches between each screen for speakers, why can't they be floor standing or stand mount speakers?

Hard (for me) to justify the ML surrounds when Emotiva makes a very similar speaker for 35% of the cost for a pair. Though, how much output do you need?

Chane will release their A4.4 this year, which should be a solid surround speaker. Keep an eye on those.

I also second the Rythmik FVX15 sub recommendation - and they have a multi-sub discount, so they would actually be $4196 for 4. The best bang for the buck from one of the best sub makers. Though I think you'd be fine with 3. You will need a MiniDSP 2x4 HD to time align the subs.

I do see a problem with the Martin Logan on-walls. Their frequency response extends to only 100Hz due to the thin cabinets. That means choosing a crossover is going to be tough - ideally you want speakers that can perform one octave below your crossover, so a speaker crossed at 80Hz to subs should have a -3dB point of 40Hz. For a speaker capable of only 100Hz, you can do the math, but the highest I would want to go is 120Hz on the crossover, and don't place them near your seats. That means you may be better off with a paper cone Rythmik. I would inquire about that if interested.

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post #26 of 197 Old 01-17-2019, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I do see a problem with the Martin Logan on-walls. Their frequency response extends to only 100Hz due to the thin cabinets. That means choosing a crossover is going to be tough - ideally you want speakers that can perform one octave below your crossover, so a speaker crossed at 80Hz to subs should have a -3dB point of 40Hz. For a speaker capable of only 100Hz, you can do the math, but the highest I would want to go is 120Hz on the crossover, and don't place them near your seats. That means you may be better off with a paper cone Rythmik. I would inquire about that if interested.
This is a good point. Although an octave of F3-point headroom below the crossover is desirable, it is not necessarily a deal breaker, IMO, but I would still want as much F3-point headroom below the crossover as I could reasonably find, especially for the L/C/R. A 100Hz F3 point for the L/C/R is, IMO, insufficient.
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post #27 of 197 Old 01-17-2019, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Second this. It may be a bit more barebones on the little features that add up on units like the Denons, but it will make up for it in sound quality. Dirac Live will give you better frequency response and imaging than the other AVRs mentioned here that do not use Dirac.

The slim on-walls up front may really limit things, but it depends on the design.

Maybe there's something I don't know about this room, but if you have 11 inches between each screen for speakers, why can't they be floor standing or stand mount speakers?

Hard (for me) to justify the ML surrounds when Emotiva makes a very similar speaker for 35% of the cost for a pair. Though, how much output do you need?

Chane will release their A4.4 this year, which should be a solid surround speaker. Keep an eye on those.

I also second the Rythmik FVX15 sub recommendation - and they have a multi-sub discount, so they would actually be $4196 for 4. The best bang for the buck from one of the best sub makers. Though I think you'd be fine with 3. You will need a MiniDSP 2x4 HD to time align the subs.

I do see a problem with the Martin Logan on-walls. Their frequency response extends to only 100Hz due to the thin cabinets. That means choosing a crossover is going to be tough - ideally you want speakers that can perform one octave below your crossover, so a speaker crossed at 80Hz to subs should have a -3dB point of 40Hz. For a speaker capable of only 100Hz, you can do the math, but the highest I would want to go is 120Hz on the crossover, and don't place them near your seats. That means you may be better off with a paper cone Rythmik. I would inquire about that if interested.
Soulburner. Thank you for the input. I really appreciate it.

This is my issue with the Front Wall. See picture of my Front Wall....I Apologize but I took it at night and I don't yet have any of the lighting up...



My Dilemma here is that the Wife wanted a nice simple and short entertainment center as drawn in the picture. If I use a Floor Standing Speaker, the entertainment center has to be smaller and she doesn't want Floor standing Speakers between the TVs (in that 11" space) because the TVs are 5" from the wall and most Floor Standing speakers are not only a min of 10" + deep but if ported, there is also the need to move them away from the wall which would make the TV wall unwatchable and horrible in her opinion....So unfortunately I need to compromise to get his room done.....

Which is why I was defaulting back to ONWALL speakers....Even the Paradigm Millennia 30 (suggested above) is +-2 d from 110 HZ according to their site, although others in this forum have tested using Audyssey at about 60 - 70 HZ https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...-lcr-wall.html

The TRIAD ONWALL Bronze LCRs apparently go to 80 HZ....know nothing about them yet....not even price...

I would really appreciate any suggestions here that wouldn't piss off the wife...

I realize this setup is not ideal. Trying to get the most out of it with the budget I have and these constraints.
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post #28 of 197 Old 01-17-2019, 05:44 PM
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This is a dedicated media room, right? It's not like it's a living room, where I can see that kind of compromise. But I understand...happy wife, happy life...

I think getting speakers with lower extension is the right idea, so the Triads do look better. I am looking at their site and I see Bronze and Platinum, but no Silver or Gold OnWall LCR? Strange.

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post #29 of 197 Old 01-18-2019, 05:54 AM
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Soulburner. Thank you for the input. I really appreciate it.

This is my issue with the Front Wall. See picture of my Front Wall....I Apologize but I took it at night and I don't yet have any of the lighting up...



My Dilemma here is that the Wife wanted a nice simple and short entertainment center as drawn in the picture. If I use a Floor Standing Speaker, the entertainment center has to be smaller and she doesn't want Floor standing Speakers between the TVs (in that 11" space) because the TVs are 5" from the wall and most Floor Standing speakers are not only a min of 10" + deep but if ported, there is also the need to move them away from the wall which would make the TV wall unwatchable and horrible in her opinion....So unfortunately I need to compromise to get his room done.....

Which is why I was defaulting back to ONWALL speakers....Even the Paradigm Millennia 30 (suggested above) is +-2 d from 110 HZ according to their site, although others in this forum have tested using Audyssey at about 60 - 70 HZ https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...-lcr-wall.html

The TRIAD ONWALL Bronze LCRs apparently go to 80 HZ....know nothing about them yet....not even price...

I would really appreciate any suggestions here that wouldn't piss off the wife...

I realize this setup is not ideal. Trying to get the most out of it with the budget I have and these constraints.
MSRP for the Triad Bronze LCR Series is $650 each.

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post #30 of 197 Old 01-18-2019, 06:08 AM
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What about inwall speakers, is that an option? You can also go with three inceiling speakers for your LCR with angled baffles, you will get good imaging and soundstage with this type of solution. Example:
https://totemacoustic.com/en/kin-in-ceiling-angled

Or this:
https://www.triadspeakers.com/produc...g-silver8-lcr/

Both excellent speakers with very good dynamics.


I would not spend crazy money on a receiver (i.e more than $1500 or so). Receiver technology is constantly changing with new audio and video codec support as well as new HDMI standards. That NAD receiver with DIRAC (you will need a cheap external amp to power the additional 2 Atmos speakers) is a good choice. Or Denon.

For me, in order of importance, I would emphasize front three speakers (think about it this is where all the dialogue and primary sound is coming from), and then subwoofers and then surrounds and receiver.

You have a very good budget, you should have no problem making this work.
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