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post #361 of 641 Old 09-11-2019, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by goldark View Post
Seems like the price on the other pairs jumped up to $59. I trust your ears, Jim, and for that price, why not take a chance - just ordered them.

You mentioned they're better than budget speakers you've heard in the past like the Q Acoustics 3020...what league of speaker would you rank them in? As good as the Canton's you've heard?
After the seller bought the stock, he had them priced $149 ... then had a weekend sale for $49 ... then took them up to $59 for the cherry finish. They are not as good as the Cantons ... and are a little bit behind the Ascend CBM-170 ... but they are way better than the $800 Xtonebox S-7M Reference Speakers

If you do not like them, they will still make some real good surround speakers and/or bedroom speakers and/or garage speakers
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post #362 of 641 Old 09-11-2019, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Sound like a bargain based on your take of the bookshelves.
The weak link is the center ... a review
https://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_1...rs-2-2007.html

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post #363 of 641 Old 09-11-2019, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 1983weatherby View Post
Interesting to say the least. I owned some DCM speakers a long time ago, I wasn't a huge fan personally. NHT superones get recommended often here. So to be better than those at that price point is impressive.
This is a different DCM, as DCM was sold to Mitek (MTX)
These speakers are much better than the former DCM (original owner) CX series. And the original DCM did poorly with the KX horn speaker series

A little more on the new series
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...ml#post7803623

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post #364 of 641 Old 09-11-2019, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post
This is a different DCM, as DCM was sold to Mitek (MTX)
These speakers are much better than the former DCM (original owner) CX series. And the original DCM did poorly with the KX horn speaker series

A little more on the new series
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...ml#post7803623
Interesting. I need an LCR, from that review it sounds like it may be a better option to go with the 200's vs the Ascend 170's or CMT-340's. They are about the same price point as the 170's. Due to my location shipping costs as much as the speakers. So I guess that's a no go for me.

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post #365 of 641 Old 09-11-2019, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 1983weatherby View Post
Interesting. I need an LCR, from that review it sounds like it may be a better option to go with the 200's vs the Ascend 170's or CMT-340's. They are about the same price point as the 170's. Due to my location shipping costs as much as the speakers. So I guess that's a no go for me.
I believe you are from Alaska ... DCM is free shipping to USA, but I do not Know if it is for the 48 states or the full 50 --- speaker choice is not easy -- I believe Crutchfield has free shipping to Alaska

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post #366 of 641 Old 09-11-2019, 04:09 PM
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Yeah, Crutchfield and Amazon do free shipping. I am leaning towards Ascends as their shipping seems reasonable and they get good reviews here. All the local speaker shops closed down and I can only audition what Bestbuy carries. So pretty limited.
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post #367 of 641 Old 09-11-2019, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 1983weatherby View Post
Yeah, Crutchfield and Amazon do free shipping. I am leaning towards Ascends as their shipping seems reasonable and they get good reviews here. All the local speaker shops closed down and I can only audition what Bestbuy carries. So pretty limited.
i think you might like the 170's..i have them , other than a forward presentation (that i think is greatly exaggerated in my tiny room(12x12), with mlp 5"from back wall) , they are pretty awesome at the $200 used price i got them for.. .. they aren't bright , but they might like a slightly bigger room ..

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #368 of 641 Old 09-11-2019, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post
After the seller bought the stock, he had them priced $149 ... then had a weekend sale for $49 ... then took them up to $59 for the cherry finish. They are not as good as the Cantons ... and are a little bit behind the Ascend CBM-170 ... but they are way better than the $800 Xtonebox S-7M Reference Speakers

If you do not like them, they will still make some real good surround speakers and/or bedroom speakers and/or garage speakers
Enticing. Baby Ascends for just $60. I wonder how they compare to the Elac Debut, KEF Q100/150, Emotiva B1, and other forum favorites.

Can't wait to get them and give them a spin.
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post #369 of 641 Old 09-11-2019, 07:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by goldark View Post
Enticing. Baby Ascends for just $60. I wonder how they compare to the Elac Debut, KEF Q100/150, Emotiva B1, and other forum favorites.

Can't wait to get them and give them a spin.
Hope you do like them ... we all can hear a little different ... but for the price they are hard to pass up. They will not cover up poor or nasty recordings.

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post #370 of 641 Old 09-11-2019, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by goldark View Post
Enticing. Baby Ascends for just $60. I wonder how they compare to the Elac Debut, KEF Q100/150, Emotiva B1, and other forum favorites.

Can't wait to get them and give them a spin.
the 170's are a bit better than the q100's for clarity.. but not quite as smooth in the tweeter / upper mid range.. the b1's are much smoother than either , but not near as clear in the mids , but about even in the tweeter range..i have them all and use them all extensively...if you want accurate sound and accurate sounding instruments it's the 170's hands down...although both the others have strengths..the dcm's are an interesting thought , my guess is that if Ziegl likes them they don't suck and may be the equivalent of the b1's , maybe even a bit better.. the b1's don't quite stack up to the 170's except in smoothness , that amt tweeter is pretty nice for long sessions..
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YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in

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post #371 of 641 Old 09-11-2019, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
the 170's are a bit better than the q100's for clarity.. but not quite as smooth in the tweeter / upper mid range.. the b1's are much smoother than either , but not near as clear in the mids , but about even in the tweeter range..i have them all and use them all extensively...if you want accurate sound and accurate sounding instruments it's the 170's hands down...although both the others have strengths..the dcm's are an interesting thought , my guess is that if Ziegl likes them they don't suck and may be the equivalent of the b1's , maybe even a bit better.. the b1's don't quite stack up to the 170's except in smoothness , that amt tweeter is pretty nice for long sessions..
Thank you for your thoughts! I think you should grab yourself a pair and do a comparison too

BTW, by "smooth," do you mean a flatter frequency response? I was under the impression that the CBM 170's response was incredibly flat already.
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post #372 of 641 Old 09-11-2019, 07:37 PM
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New Budget Speaker Choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldark View Post
Thank you for your thoughts! I think you should grab yourself a pair and do a comparison too



BTW, by "smooth," do you mean a flatter frequency response? I was under the impression that the CBM 170's response was incredibly flat already.

I think in his context smooth is ease of listening. His experience with the 170’s have been a bit brighter than most would say, and he appreciates the refined AMT of the B1’s which I would definitely agree are a bit smoother (Warmer) due to the softer nature of ribbons.

Think I nailed it right Lp?
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #373 of 641 Old 09-11-2019, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
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The DCM are good, but I will not hype them ... and who knows, my ears may be off key ... But they are not $59 sounding speakers ... I am not a fan of speaker break in, but I would give them some time to get use to them before doing critical listening. And some speakers will be better in some areas than the other. One thing for sure, they do not have the resonant honky sound of the Q Acoustics 3020i speakers.

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post #374 of 641 Old 09-11-2019, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
the dcm's are an interesting thought , my guess is that if Ziegl likes them they don't suck and may be the equivalent of the b1's , maybe even a bit better.. the b1's don't quite stack up to the 170's except in smoothness , that amt tweeter is pretty nice for long sessions..
Right, the DCM do not stink. They are surprisingly good. I do not expect the DCM tweeter to beat the B1 tweeter overall -- but the DCM still has a good tweeter. The real DCM speaker to look at is the TFE60 ... and it is only 16 inches deep
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-DCM-by-MT...EAAOSwYIddcnSM
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post #375 of 641 Old 09-11-2019, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
I think in his context smooth is ease of listening. His experience with the 170’s have been a bit brighter than most would say, and he appreciates the refined AMT of the B1’s which I would definitely agree are a bit smoother (Warmer) due to the softer nature of ribbons.

Think I nailed it right Lp?
yup ..100%..... but the 170's aren't really "bright" in the classic sense , just forward, and in this tiny , bright room they *can* get shouty.. i was thinking about the nht c1's , but i think they might be very similar to the 170's, i'm still thinking about them but i keep hearing the sierra 1's calling my name.. the 170's are so close to what i want , i don't know whether to grab the c1's or sierra's.. ah well 1st world problems..

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #376 of 641 Old 09-11-2019, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
the 170's are a bit better than the q100's for clarity.. but not quite as smooth in the tweeter / upper mid range.. the b1's are much smoother than either , but not near as clear in the mids , but about even in the tweeter range..i have them all and use them all extensively...if you want accurate sound and accurate sounding instruments it's the 170's hands down...although both the others have strengths..the dcm's are an interesting thought , my guess is that if Ziegl likes them they don't suck and may be the equivalent of the b1's , maybe even a bit better.. the b1's don't quite stack up to the 170's except in smoothness , that amt tweeter is pretty nice for long sessions..
I guess I'm not clear on what you mean by "smooth." I've also worked with these 3 speakers, although I evaluated the Ascend many years ago and I think it has been tweaked since then. Perhaps you associate a laid back, non-fatiguing sound with "smooth"? However, purely in terms of frequency response deviations, the Ascend is smoother than the B1's, and has some of the best NRC measurements in their library. The B1's have very little baffle step compensation, and that causes a 4 dB hump between 1kHz and 1.5 kHz and with it the inevitable smearing of midrange detail As you note, the tweeter performs very nicely, however.

Edit:I wrote this before I noticed that Russdawg1 had already speculated on the meaning of the word "smooth." But while were talking about adjectives, I'm also not clear on what Russdawg means when he describes ribbons (which the Emotiva tweeter really isn't) as "soft" sounding.
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post #377 of 641 Old 09-11-2019, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by PhilharmonicDennis View Post
I guess I'm not clear on what you mean by "smooth." I've also worked with these 3 speakers, although I evaluated the Ascend many years ago and I think it has been tweaked since then. Perhaps you associate a laid back, non-fatiguing sound with "smooth"? However, purely in terms of frequency response deviations, the Ascend is smoother than the B1's, and has some of the best NRC measurements in their library. The B1's have very little baffle step compensation, and that causes a 4 dB hump between 1kHz and 1.5 kHz and with it the inevitable smearing of midrange detail As you note, the tweeter performs very nicely, however.
you get it as well, as a matter of fact we spoke of this a while back, and i learned from your observations...it's that amt that i love, if i could find a tweeter like it with the mids of the 170's i would be done searching for my speaker of choice.. the clarity of the 170's is just phenomenal , my guess is that it's in the same league with your aa+, and i'm still kicking myself for blowing that opportunity ..did you ever "adjust" the b1's to something a bit more to your liking? with one of your crossovers they might be pretty great..

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #378 of 641 Old 09-11-2019, 09:02 PM
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you get it as well, as a matter of fact we spoke of this a while back, and i learned from your observations...it's that amt that i love, if i could find a tweeter like it with the mids of the 170's i would be done searching for my speaker of choice.. the clarity of the 170's is just phenomenal , my guess is that it's in the same league with your aa+, and i'm still kicking myself for blowing that opportunity ..did you ever "adjust" the b1's to something a bit more to your liking? with one of your crossovers they might be pretty great..
I would have loved to redo the B1's low pass filter, but the speakers weren't mine and I don't think the owner would have appreciated my taring into his crossover board.
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post #379 of 641 Old 09-11-2019, 09:13 PM
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i think you might like the 170's..i have them , other than a forward presentation (that i think is greatly exaggerated in my tiny room(12x12), with mlp 5"from back wall) , they are pretty awesome at the $200 used price i got them for.. .. they aren't bright , but they might like a slightly bigger room ..
Have you had the Ascends for awhile? I don't recall seeing you talk about them before, but then again I am not always lurking here. Unsurprisingly, I am curious on how they compare to the q100s. When you say that the 170s aren't as smooth as the q100s, does that mean they sound a little bit harsher? It is certainly interesting to hear that they are more detailed.
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post #380 of 641 Old 09-11-2019, 10:58 PM
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Have you had the Ascends for awhile? I don't recall seeing you talk about them before, but then again I am not always lurking here. Unsurprisingly, I am curious on how they compare to the q100s. When you say that the 170s aren't as smooth as the q100s, does that mean they sound a little bit harsher? It is certainly interesting to hear that they are more detailed.
it's a subtle dynamic between the two, and yes, i've had them a while *but* was using them as centers (they are great at that)..the 170's aren't harsh ,i have a small room with a bunch of furniture and glass, i think that's the reason they sometimes come off forward/ shouty..the q100's are in a different set up , more off axis .. i often listen to the 170's then q100's just a minute or two after ..the q100's sound a bit warm and polished in comparison(as unlikely as that sounds) in this scenario.. the 170's a absolutely *etched* in detail without being bright , it's hard to describe..the q100's , as you know are rather detailed for a $300 speaker, but aren't as detailed as the 170's.. both of these speakers are better technically than my other speakers... another thing : the 170's image and soundstage are *next level* , best i've heard as a combo... the q100's probably image as well , but the soundstage isn't as convincing in size or depth..ascend has a new fan , as you can probably guess, it took a minute (actually many) to get used to the sound sig of the 170's , i almost gave up in that room, but it's paying off in spades, i've got a speaker set i can listen to and not guess what it might be to listen to "step up" speakers, these are and i got them at $200 used...hope i haven't confused you further with my babble, these are just my random thoughts as i think about listening to them, i don't ordinarily listen to the speakers critically i'm a music fan not a hi fi fan..this speaker analyzing can give a guy a complex about his electronics.. give me some zep and a good ale and i quit worrying about speaker envy...

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #381 of 641 Old 09-11-2019, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by PhilharmonicDennis View Post
I would have loved to redo the B1's low pass filter, but the speakers weren't mine and I don't think the owner would have appreciated my taring into his crossover board.
i would have loved to hear the results of the b1s and your work.. i'm glad i have mine , at least i know now the type of tweeter that does it for me.. unfortunately most speakers with that nice of a tweeter or better are a ways above my current means, the b1's were the exception.. thanks for listening to them and giving me your thoughts , i really learned something from your response ...

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #382 of 641 Old 09-12-2019, 07:03 AM
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I've been looking for small speakers to replace the Def Techs in my LR, and ran across this thread...

Thinking about jumping on the DCM 160S and 160C to replace some older Boston Acoustics CS26 and CS225C in a spare bedroom converted to a home theater room. I currently have 6 of the CS26 - L, R, Height, and surround.

I know some don't like the CS series. But I've been happy with them for the 9 years they've been in service! I've never felt like I needed to upgrade them. But for the price, these are hard to pass up! Do you think the DCM will be an upgrade?

The rears are on stands VERY close to the sides of the sofa. (The left side is actually touching the sofa, and right is <1' away.) I've never been crazy about that... even though I like directional sound, it can be a little much having a speaker right in your ear. Should I wall mount a pair of the 160BDP instead of stand mounting a set of 160S?

Thanks for your input!!
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post #383 of 641 Old 09-12-2019, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I've been looking for small speakers to replace the Def Techs in my LR, and ran across this thread...

Thinking about jumping on the DCM 160S and 160C to replace some older Boston Acoustics CS26 and CS225C in a spare bedroom converted to a home theater room. I currently have 6 of the CS26 - L, R, Height, and surround.

I know some don't like the CS series. But I've been happy with them for the 9 years they've been in service! I've never felt like I needed to upgrade them. But for the price, these are hard to pass up! Do you think the DCM will be an upgrade?

The rears are on stands VERY close to the sides of the sofa. (The left side is actually touching the sofa, and right is <1' away.) I've never been crazy about that... even though I like directional sound, it can be a little much having a speaker right in your ear. Should I wall mount a pair of the 160BDP instead of stand mounting a set of 160S?
Yes, I consider the DCM an upgrade from the Boston CS series

I would get 2 pair of the 160s and use 1 of the second pair as a center channel ... for the surrounds, I would even get another pair of the 160s and then get these wall-mount brackets
https://www.amazon.com/VideoSecu-Cla...gateway&sr=8-4
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post #384 of 641 Old 09-12-2019, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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I've been looking for small speakers to replace the Def Techs in my LR, and ran across this thread...
And the DCM are an upgrade to the Definitive -- the price is slowly creeping back up, they are now $69 a pair for the cherry finish

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post #385 of 641 Old 09-12-2019, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post
And the DCM are an upgrade to the Definitive -- the price is slowly creeping back up, they are now $69 a pair for the cherry finish
Look at what you started

I know you're a fan of the Boston A series. Is the DCM better than say the Boston A or M series?

Last edited by goldark; 09-12-2019 at 10:40 AM.
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post #386 of 641 Old 09-12-2019, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
i would have loved to hear the results of the b1s and your work.. i'm glad i have mine , at least i know now the type of tweeter that does it for me.. unfortunately most speakers with that nice of a tweeter or better are a ways above my current means, the b1's were the exception.. thanks for listening to them and giving me your thoughts , i really learned something from your response ...
Well--you could always send me your pair and let me operate. It doesn't exactly sound like you would be lacking speakers while the patient was being torn open.
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post #387 of 641 Old 09-12-2019, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by goldark View Post
Look at what you started

I know you're a fan of the Boston A series. Is the DCM better than say the Boston A25/A26?
I am a fan of Boston and have owned several of their speakers, entry level and high end ... but not the current A series (which is still entry level) ... so based on my experience of owning and auditioning Boston speakers, I easily recommend the A series, as they have always made nice/decent and good speakers ..... the poster has the CS series which I have owned and auditioned CS series speakers ... and the DCM are a higher level speaker and much better to me --- with the exception of bass in the A26, it would not surprise me that the DCM would be a better speaker than them.

The DCM 16s is the entry level bookshelf speaker, and I have also owned them ... the TP160s which I now own and you bought, is a higher level speaker and clearly better than the 16s
https://www.mtx.com/dcm16s-dcm-bookshelf-speaker-black

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Last edited by zieglj01; 09-12-2019 at 11:00 AM.
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post #388 of 641 Old 09-12-2019, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by PhilharmonicDennis View Post
Well--you could always send me your pair and let me operate. It doesn't exactly sound like you would be lacking speakers while the patient was being torn open.
You just made Lee's day!
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post #389 of 641 Old 09-12-2019, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by PhilharmonicDennis View Post
Well--you could always send me your pair and let me operate. It doesn't exactly sound like you would be lacking speakers while the patient was being torn open.
thanks Dennis , that's a wonderful idea , i have some life stuff going on right now , but when that's done , i'll get with you and hash out the details .. i'm 100 % in .. it's gonna be a minute or 2 though
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YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #390 of 641 Old 09-12-2019, 02:00 PM
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You just made Lee's day!
you have that right
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YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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