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post #691 of 846 Old 11-13-2019, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by skeets.13 View Post
Thanks for the RSL rec. Just wonder how well it would match timbre wise. Could just use 3 of the RSLs but that would be stretching the budget.
Should work fine. For mostly HT the center doesn't necessarily have to match. Just need a nice one with clear dialog which the RSL would deliver.
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post #692 of 846 Old 11-13-2019, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by skeets.13 View Post
The TP160C-CH is too tall for my set up. Any recommendation for a center channel 7 inches or less in height to pair with the TP160S?
Not sure what your budget is, but here are some options:

Monitor Audio Bronze:
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_893BZC....html?skipvs=T

NHT Super Center:
https://www.amazon.com/NHT-Super-Cen.../dp/B00QHDC32C

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post #693 of 846 Old 11-13-2019, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
@PhilharmonicDennis or @zieglj01

Could the TP160S be improved further (even though it doesn’t seem like it needs it from what I’m reading) with a better designed cabinet?

Obviously bracing has had good results, and it seems to be built well already, but would a new cabinet, or even adjusting the current cabinet with a 1” or so round-over be a worth while improvement? Easy enough to take a router to the front baffle, of course at the expense of the veneer, but no one is buying these for the looks.

This might mess with the bsc circuit though.

Just spitballing, let me know what you guys think.
The 160 has very few diffraction wiggles, and I'm sure you wouldn't hear any improvement with round over. I think the cabinet is fine also. I'll try bracing it, but I'm not expecting much. BTW, round over won't have any impact on baffle step compensation. That depends on the woofer response, where the wave lengths that might induce diffraction artifacts will probably be out of the pass band in any event.
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post #694 of 846 Old 11-13-2019, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by skeets.13 View Post
The TP160C-CH is too tall for my set up. Any recommendation for a center channel 7 inches or less in height to pair with the TP160S?
They give you the option to purchase 1 each to use as a center -- the Ascend HTM200 speaker ... turn it sideways with the tweeter up
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages...00/htm200.html

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post #695 of 846 Old 11-13-2019, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
@PhilharmonicDennis or @zieglj01

Could the TP160S be improved further (even though it doesn’t seem like it needs it from what I’m reading) with a better designed cabinet?
I have no serious complaints with the cabinet

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post #696 of 846 Old 11-13-2019, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by PhilharmonicDennis View Post
The 160 has very few diffraction wiggles, and I'm sure you wouldn't hear any improvement with round over. I think the cabinet is fine also. I'll try bracing it, but I'm not expecting much. BTW, round over won't have any impact on baffle step compensation. That depends on the woofer response, where the wave lengths that might induce diffraction artifacts will probably be out of the pass band in any event.

Ah okay. Thanks!

My understanding of baffle step compensation circuits were based on baffle width (or shape) and rounding over the edges would make the baffle effectively shorter. Gotcha now.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #697 of 846 Old 11-13-2019, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
the ultras are in trouble.....
Nah, tho it's a lot closer than it should be!

I'm still in the process of swapping back and forth and comparing with different songs, but the Ultras have a fairly comfortable lead. Altho... the fact that the TP160S at 83 bucks can even hold its own (and it does, it's not a blowout. The TP might even do some things better!) against the $1000 Ultras is insane!

I used a SPL app on my phone to level match and according to it the Ultras are about 1.5 dB more sensitive so I'm adjusting the volume as I swap between the 2.
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post #698 of 846 Old 11-13-2019, 04:00 PM
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Thanks for all the recs for the shorter center channel. It is difficult to center the TV screen at eye level and and the speaker at ear level . The taller the center channel the higher the screen or the lower the speaker.
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post #699 of 846 Old 11-13-2019, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Pogre View Post
Nah, tho it's a lot closer than it should be!

I'm still in the process of swapping back and forth and comparing with different songs, but the Ultras have a fairly comfortable lead. Altho... the fact that the TP160S at 83 bucks can even hold its own (and it does, it's not a blowout. The TP might even do some things better!) against the $1000 Ultras is insane!
Be careful when you say that, as 175 pair have been sold in less than 3 months, plus you can get a 5.0 set for around $250.
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post #700 of 846 Old 11-13-2019, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pogre View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
the ultras are in trouble.....
Nah, tho it's a lot closer than it should be! <img src="https://www.avsforum.com/forum/images/AVSForum/smilies/tango_face_plain.png" border="0" alt="" title="Serious" class="inlineimg" />

I'm still in the process of swapping back and forth and comparing with different songs, but the Ultras have a fairly comfortable lead. Altho... the fact that the TP160S at 83 bucks can even hold its own (and it does, it's not a blowout. The TP might even do some things better!) against the $1000 Ultras is insane!

I used a SPL app on my phone to level match and according to it the Ultras are about 1.5 dB more sensitive so I'm adjusting the volume as I swap between the 2.
Now just imagine how good the TFE60 are &#x1f62e;
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Speakers: KEF Q100, Q300, Q750, Q650C / Fluance Signature Series, SX6, XL5F/ Mirage M-190 / DCM TP160S-CH Subwoofers: Outlaw Ultra X12 (x2) / BIC H100-II
Receiver: Denon AVR-X4500H, AVR-X1400H Integrated Amplifier: Yamaha A-S501/ Fosi Audio TPA3116 mini amp Extras: MiniDSP Umik-1 Amplifier: Emotiva BasX-A300
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post #701 of 846 Old 11-13-2019, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pogre View Post
Nah, tho it's a lot closer than it should be!

I'm still in the process of swapping back and forth and comparing with different songs, but the Ultras have a fairly comfortable lead. Altho... the fact that the TP160S at 83 bucks can even hold its own (and it does, it's not a blowout. The TP might even do some things better!) against the $1000 Ultras is insane!

I used a SPL app on my phone to level match and according to it the Ultras are about 1.5 dB more sensitive so I'm adjusting the volume as I swap between the 2.
Based on my experience with the Ultra's and the DCM, my guess is that the Ultra's will sound more spacious, while the DCM's will have more upper midrange, lower treble presence. And they should sound brighter as well. I should know by the end of the night how best to throttle down the highs on the DCM.
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post #702 of 846 Old 11-13-2019, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by PhilharmonicDennis View Post
Based on my experience with the Ultra's and the DCM, my guess is that the Ultra's will sound more spacious, while the DCM's will have more upper midrange, lower treble presence. And they should sound brighter as well. I should know by the end of the night how best to throttle down the highs on the DCM.
After spending a few hours twiddling with various resistor values and circuit topologies, I've found that placing a 20 ohm resistor across the tweeter terminals brings everything into balance. It won't cure the rising response above 12 kHz, but that's not why they sound bright. It's the area between 3.5 kHz and 10 kHz that needs to be shelved down a couple of dB. I haven't tried bracing the box yet, but I will. With the resistor installed, the response is as good or better than the vast majority of speakers measured by the Canadian Research Council in their anechoic chamber. The Spinorama measurements would also look great since the off-axis response profile doesn't contain any significant dips or peaks other than the inevitable roll-off of the tweeter in the upper highs. I'll post some measurements tomorrow.
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post #703 of 846 Old 11-14-2019, 01:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PhilharmonicDennis View Post
The Spinorama measurements would also look great since the off-axis response profile doesn't contain any significant dips or peaks other than the inevitable roll-off of the tweeter in the upper highs. I'll post some measurements tomorrow.
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post #704 of 846 Old 11-14-2019, 04:44 AM
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I've never messed with the internals of a speaker. Dennis, are the things you are talking about things the average consumer can "update" on their own or is this all just discussion based on what a speaker technician/expert can do to them if desired? Thanks for the time and effort and explanation, at least.

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post #705 of 846 Old 11-14-2019, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilharmonicDennis View Post
Based on my experience with the Ultra's and the DCM, my guess is that the Ultra's will sound more spacious, while the DCM's will have more upper midrange, lower treble presence. And they should sound brighter as well. I should know by the end of the night how best to throttle down the highs on the DCM.
Nailed it. That's been exactly my impression so far. The Ultras have slightly better bass and sound bigger, but the two have more in common than differences. I'm pretty floored at how well the DCMs are performing in comparison.

Folks new to this hobby who purchase the DCMs as a first speaker are gonna have a very, very hard time finding a meaningful upgrade without spending a lot more money.
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post #706 of 846 Old 11-14-2019, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post
Be careful when you say that, as 175 pair have been sold in less than 3 months, plus you can get a 5.0 set for around $250.
That's crazy cheap for what you get with these speakers. They can handle some power too. I sit 14' from the front stage and took 'em up to reference (0) and they maintained their composure at full range. I could see the woofers moving easily from where I sit and they never bottomed out.
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post #707 of 846 Old 11-14-2019, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by AppsDeacs View Post
I've never messed with the internals of a speaker. Dennis, are the things you are talking about things the average consumer can "update" on their own or is this all just discussion based on what a speaker technician/expert can do to them if desired? Thanks for the time and effort and explanation, at least.
If it's just adding a resistor across tweeter terminals, then it should be a fairly simple soldering job. All you need is a soldering iron and some rosin core solder.

I'm sure Dennis will chime in if it's more complex than this.

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post #708 of 846 Old 11-14-2019, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by skeets.13 View Post
Thanks for all the recs for the shorter center channel. It is difficult to center the TV screen at eye level and and the speaker at ear level . The taller the center channel the higher the screen or the lower the speaker.
It's OK if the speaker is not perfectly at ear level. You can always angle it up or down a bit, so that it's pointing at your ears in MLP.

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post #709 of 846 Old 11-14-2019, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by PhilharmonicDennis View Post
I've found that placing a 20 ohm resistor across the tweeter terminals brings everything into balance.
How many Watts should this resistor be able to handle?

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post #710 of 846 Old 11-14-2019, 12:11 PM
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How many Watts should this resistor be able to handle?
Anything rated for 10W or higher will do. Parts Express has two brands that will work. The cheapest is this: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...sistor--004-20 About $1.50 each. It will sound as good as the more expensive Mills resistor here: https://www.parts-express.com/mills-...sistor--005-20

Unfortunately, (1) the cheap 20-ohm resistors are out of stock, but should be available after Thanksgiving; (2) PE just raised the price of the Mills resistors by $2. The Trumpmeister may be responsible for that. The advantage of the Mills is that it's much smaller and easier to work with than the Dayton resistors, so it will be easier to get the tweeter back in its hole. Performing the mod is not audio rocket science by any means. You just remove the tweeter and pull it out far enough so that you can work with the wires leading to the terminals easily. Then you snip each wire about 3" from the terminals, strip both ends of each wire leaving enough bare wire so that you can twist the ends together, and twist one end of a resistor lead around the bare part of the positive wire, and the other lead around the bare part of the negative wire. If you don't have soldering capability, make sure everything is twisted as tight as you can get it, and then wrap the bare junctions tightly with electrical tape. Or do whatever you have to do to end up with the resistor installed across the negative and positive wires. If you do solder, do it quickly to avoid damaging the tweeter.

You will need a Torx T15 bit to get the tweeter screws out:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=torx+t15+...l_8stzp5nnye_e

Above all, don't do any of this unless you think the DCM is too bright for you.
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post #711 of 846 Old 11-14-2019, 07:10 PM
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Dennis, thanks for the info on the 20 Ohm parallel resistor on the tweeter.

Not a crossover expert at all, so curious about the impact. Is the goal to change the tweeter impedance to impact frequency response in a range.


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5.1 and 2.0 ch: Marantz AV7704/Emotiva DC-1/Rotel RB-1582 MKII/Audiosource Amp Three x 2/Polk LS90, CS400i, FX500i/Outlaw X-12, LFM-1/JVD DLA-HD250/Da-Lite 100" HCCV/Sony ES BDP/Sonos Connect. DC-1/RB-1582 MKII/Sonos Connect also feed Polk 7C in garage and Dayton IO655 on patio. 2.1 ch: Denon AVR-2807/Klipsch Forte I or NHT SB2/JBL SUB 550P x 2. 2.0 ch: Outlaw 975/Outlaw M2200 x 2/Klipsch RF-7 III/Sony ES BDP/LG 65" LED. 2.0 ch: Klipsch Powergate/NHT SB3. Kitchen: Sonos Play5.
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post #712 of 846 Old 11-14-2019, 10:10 PM
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Dennis, thanks for the info on the 20 Ohm parallel resistor on the tweeter.



Not a crossover expert at all, so curious about the impact. Is the goal to change the tweeter impedance to impact frequency response in a range.

My understanding of this modification would let current through the resistor, instead of all through the tweeter, reducing output from the tweeter.

Someone with more experience can explain. Perhaps Dennis Murphy?

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #713 of 846 Old 11-15-2019, 09:45 AM
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I posted my impressions of the TP160S compared to the Ultras over at Audioholics if anyone is interested...

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post #714 of 846 Old 11-15-2019, 10:57 AM
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I posted my impressions of the TP160S compared to the Ultras over at Audioholics if anyone is interested...

Clicky
These are perfect for surround duties as well since they have a shallow depth and handle high volume with ease. The extra treble is a bonus for surround effects IMO. They'll be replacing my Fluance signature series soon(which do a decent job).
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Speakers: KEF Q100, Q300, Q750, Q650C / Fluance Signature Series, SX6, XL5F/ Mirage M-190 / DCM TP160S-CH Subwoofers: Outlaw Ultra X12 (x2) / BIC H100-II
Receiver: Denon AVR-X4500H, AVR-X1400H Integrated Amplifier: Yamaha A-S501/ Fosi Audio TPA3116 mini amp Extras: MiniDSP Umik-1 Amplifier: Emotiva BasX-A300
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post #715 of 846 Old 11-15-2019, 01:55 PM
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These are perfect for surround duties as well since they have a shallow depth and handle high volume with ease. The extra treble is a bonus for surround effects IMO. They'll be replacing my Fluance signature series soon(which do a decent job).
I think they can blend well enough with a sub or 2 for mains even. I'd be more than happy to use them for such if I were in a super tight budget.
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post #716 of 846 Old 11-15-2019, 01:58 PM
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I think they can blend well enough with a sub or 2 for mains even. I'd be more than happy to use them for such if I were in a super tight budget.
i'm in phoenix .. any chance you want to listen to the emotiva b1's Dennis is working on ,, ?? .. maybe i could get a listen to the dcm's at the same time..... i have some cbm 170's you might want to hear as well...

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r Dennis Murphy modded emotiva b1's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... infinity alpha 20 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. ascend cbm 170 se... kef q100 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #717 of 846 Old 11-15-2019, 02:48 PM
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These are perfect for surround duties as well since they have a shallow depth and handle high volume with ease. The extra treble is a bonus for surround effects IMO. They'll be replacing my Fluance signature series soon(which do a decent job).
I was using hsu hb1 mk2 for surrounds,then a friend of mine bought them off me, so I was left with some old paradigm titans for rears until I decided what else I wanted to go with. Then I started checking out this thread. Figured if nothing else they will go in the garage. But now I’m pretty well digging them for rears a bit more than the hsu’s. I did have to tone down the highs for multi channel music, but overall you can’t go wrong for the price. Sold the hsu’s for about double what these cost. Just wish I would of spent the extra 30$ and got the black, but I was thinking, “ I’m probably gonna put these on Craigs list Or in the garage in a week, why spend the extra 30”. Lol
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post #718 of 846 Old 11-15-2019, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
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But now I’m pretty well digging them for rears a bit more than the hsu’s. I did have to tone down the highs for multi channel music, but overall you can’t go wrong for the price. Sold the hsu’s for about double what these cost. Just wish I would of spent the extra 30$ and got the black, but I was thinking, “ I’m probably gonna put these on Craigs list Or in the garage in a week, why spend the extra 30”. Lol
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post #719 of 846 Old 11-15-2019, 04:37 PM
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They tend to grow on you -- enjoy the adventure
I’m almost thinking about trying to paint them black. Not like the finish on ascend cmt 340 or hsu hc1 that I’m using are anything special. And for the price of the dcm’s I’m definitely not worried about resale value. Just need something that looks a little better than spray paint. Lol
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post #720 of 846 Old 11-16-2019, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by jsb75 View Post
I’m almost thinking about trying to paint them black. Not like the finish on ascend cmt 340 or hsu hc1 that I’m using are anything special. And for the price of the dcm’s I’m definitely not worried about resale value. Just need something that looks a little better than spray paint. Lol
You could use a vinyl wrap -- it can look better than paint if you're careful and should be reversible (I think it is generally considered reversible, but I haven't tried removing it). I've used the carbon fiber wrap linked below on some parts of my son's simulation racing frame and it looks amazing. Very easy to apply, I use a heat gun, though I suspect a hair dryer would also work. The wrap comes in many different finishes, the VViViD brand seems to be quite good in my experience. The overall shape of the DCM looks very easy to wrap (even with no experience).

https://www.amazon.com/VViViD-Carbon...95ZCXDF0RCQCPT
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