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post #181 of 832 Old 02-20-2019, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
That would be a great shootout though, Concept 20’s, LX16’s, CMT340’s, Albany’s, and whatever mystery pair I have at the time lol! Maybe I’ll get some more JBL’s with their free returns.
The Studio 230 is nice/decent, but you will need something higher than the 230 for your shootout -- I would look at something like the PSB Imagine XB
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_760IMN...magine-XB.html

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post #182 of 832 Old 02-20-2019, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Done more listening to the Studio 230 speakers

OK and decent/nice for music, but are somewhat limited. The bass is good and is not bloated or mushy sounding and does go low, the upper midrange is somewhat recessed. The tweeter can be a little bright on some recordings, but not sharp or ear piercing, however poor recordings will be exposed. Their overall sound signature is not in the $400 range as they are somewhat lacking in overall resolution -- the soundstage is also somewhat lacking in central imaging and depth, the soundstage is wide but not as wide as some other speakers can be. They do have a slight boxy sound, but they do not honk like the Q A 3020i and they are more cohesive sounding than the 3020i speakers. They are more linear and balanced over the SuperOne 2.1, and the JBL is more rounded and full compared to the SuperOne 2.1 -- The QA and NHT do have that forward push that can be annoying, while the JBL does not really come at you. The Studio 230 does perform better for Movies/TV and do have some decent dynamics, but they are not made for blowing your roof off or blasting your windows

If I were to use some WhatHiFi lingo, I would say that the Studio 230 lacks some pace and rhythm. The JBL can benefit from a crossover mod, as they did not put a lot of work into it to save cost. And the cabinet could benefit with some cross bracing. The Canton GLS 2 is still an overall better speaker, but I still prefer the Studio 230 over the HTD Level Three, the Q A 3020/3020i and the NHT SuperOne 2.1 -- it is possible that I might hold on to them.

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post #183 of 832 Old 02-20-2019, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post
Done more listening to the Studio 230 speakers

OK and decent/nice for music, but are somewhat limited. The bass is good and is not bloated or mushy sounding and does go low, the upper midrange is somewhat recessed. The tweeter can be a little bright on some recordings, but not sharp or ear piercing, however poor recordings will be exposed. Their overall sound signature is not in the $400 range as they are somewhat lacking in overall resolution -- the soundstage is also somewhat lacking in central imaging and depth, the soundstage is wide but not as wide as some other speakers can be. They do have a slight boxy sound, but they do not honk like the Q A 3020i and they are more cohesive sounding than the 3020i speakers. They are more linear and balanced over the SuperOne 2.1, and the JBL is more rounded and full compared to the SuperOne 2.1 -- The QA and NHT do have that forward push that can be annoying, while the JBL does not really come at you. The Studio 230 does perform better for Movies/TV and do have some decent dynamics, but they are not made for blowing your roof off or blasting your windows

If I were to use some WhatHiFi lingo, I would say that the Studio 230 lacks some pace and rhythm. The JBL can benefit from a crossover mod, as they did not put a lot of work into it to save cost. And the cabinet could benefit with some cross bracing. The Canton GLS 2 is still an overall better speaker, but I still prefer the Studio 230 over the HTD Level Three, the Q A 3020/3020i and the NHT SuperOne 2.1 -- it is possible that I might hold on to them.
your gonna find that white whale...... you should try the b1's..the chane's would probably work too , it's that out of stock thing that's a bummer....

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post #184 of 832 Old 02-20-2019, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post
Done more listening to the Studio 230 speakers



OK and decent/nice for music, but are somewhat limited. The bass is good and is not bloated or mushy sounding and does go low, the upper midrange is somewhat recessed. The tweeter can be a little bright on some recordings, but not sharp or ear piercing, however poor recordings will be exposed. Their overall sound signature is not in the $400 range as they are somewhat lacking in overall resolution -- the soundstage is also somewhat lacking in central imaging and depth, the soundstage is wide but not as wide as some other speakers can be. They do have a slight boxy sound, but they do not honk like the Q A 3020i and they are more cohesive sounding than the 3020i speakers. They are more linear and balanced over the SuperOne 2.1, and the JBL is more rounded and full compared to the SuperOne 2.1 -- The QA and NHT do have that forward push that can be annoying, while the JBL does not really come at you. The Studio 230 does perform better for Movies/TV and do have some decent dynamics, but they are not made for blowing your roof off or blasting your windows



If I were to use some WhatHiFi lingo, I would say that the Studio 230 lacks some pace and rhythm. The JBL can benefit from a crossover mod, as they did not put a lot of work into it to save cost. And the cabinet could benefit with some cross bracing. The Canton GLS 2 is still an overall better speaker, but I still prefer the Studio 230 over the HTD Level Three, the Q A 3020/3020i and the NHT SuperOne 2.1 -- it is possible that I might hold on to them.

Awesome, great stuff. Onward!

I find it funny that as you go up the JBL line, 130>230>530, the woofers get smaller.

7”>6.5”>5.25”

Have you tried the C3’s by NHT? Might be one to put on your list.
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #185 of 832 Old 02-20-2019, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
Awesome, great stuff. Onward!

I find it funny that as you go up the JBL line, 130>230>530, the woofers get smaller.

7”>6.5”>5.25”

Have you tried the C3’s by NHT? Might be one to put on your list.
i've thought about the c3's , a nice 3 way would be kinda cool, i think Ziegl is thinking $2/300 though, then finding some nice revels or something similar on c/list

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post #186 of 832 Old 02-20-2019, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
i've thought about the c3's , a nice 3 way would be kinda cool, i think Ziegl is thinking $2/300 though, then finding some nice revels or something similar on c/list

I thought he was looking for some Cantons?

I mean the next step up in Revel is the PerformaBe stuff and the 126Be bookshelves are $5000 a pair... Not that I don’t think he has the money for them, but I think at that point it’s definitely better to branch out and find other cool stuff. I recently found this brand called Induction Dynamics. Super expensive, but looks real nice and performs fantastic apparently. The ID1.15 towers are legitimate 2 channel, no external subwoofer needed, kinda towers

But yeah, something like the Philharmonic AA+ Monitors need to come out. Like the CBM170’s. Have you tried those @zieglj01 ? I wonder if there are any other competitors in the CBM170’s price bracket. With a similar sized woofer (Sorry B1’s and A1.4’s)

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #187 of 832 Old 02-20-2019, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
I thought he was looking for some Cantons?

I mean the next step up in Revel is the PerformaBe stuff and the 126Be bookshelves are $5000 a pair... Not that I don’t think he has the money for them, but I think at that point it’s definitely better to branch out and find other cool stuff. I recently found this brand called Induction Dynamics. Super expensive, but looks real nice and performs fantastic apparently. The ID1.15 towers are legitimate 2 channel, no external subwoofer needed, kinda towers

But yeah, something like the Philharmonic AA+ Monitors need to come out. Like the CBM170’s. Have you tried those @zieglj01 ? I wonder if there are any other competitors in the CBM170’s price bracket. With a similar sized woofer (Sorry B1’s and A1.4’s)
i could see the cbm 170's working , but i think i read recently that he would consider the sierra 1 the baseline for ascend..., he's so close to emo , the return would be real inexpensive...

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post #188 of 832 Old 02-20-2019, 08:23 PM
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New Budget Speaker Choice

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Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post
I am not troubled by the Studio 230 tweeters, they are clean and not harsh or edgy sounding. I have owned the Arena B15 (same as the 130) and the Studio 230 is a nice and clean step up, and has better resolution, detail, definition, and depth over the Arena series. The Arena series were also coarse and grainy sounding to me

Aren’t the Arena B15 the same as 120 (vs 130)?
In any case, they’re $110 on Amazon and I’m very tempted to pull the trigger.
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post #189 of 832 Old 02-20-2019, 08:23 PM
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i could see the cbm 170's working , but i think i read recently that he would consider the sierra 1 the baseline for ascend..., he's so close to emo , the return would be real inexpensive...

I hope Emotiva makes a larger bookshelf. I bet they would grab a large chunk of the market with a 6.5” B2 of sorts. I think a main discouragement from Emotiva to the common consumer is indeed the 5.25” woofer. Everyone likes extended bass response, and since the B1 has “small” woofers, I would guess that the common consumer says yeah, no, when they look at them.
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #190 of 832 Old 02-21-2019, 03:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
But yeah, something like the Philharmonic AA+ Monitors need to come out. Like the CBM170’s. Have you tried those @zieglj01 ? I wonder if there are any other competitors in the CBM170’s price bracket. With a similar sized woofer (Sorry B1’s and A1.4’s)
I have listened to the CBM 170 speakers, they are nice/decent and better than average, but not enough for me -- the A1.4 keep going out of stock -- the B1 is on my mind, but maybe later

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post #191 of 832 Old 02-21-2019, 03:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Aren’t the Arena B15 the same as 120 (vs 130)?
In any case, they’re $110 on Amazon and I’m very tempted to pull the trigger.
The Arena B17 and Arena 130 are the same and the B15 and Arena 120 are the same; the difference is in the grill and logo. .... nothing wrong with pulling the trigger, enjoy the Audio Adventure

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post #192 of 832 Old 02-21-2019, 03:48 AM - Thread Starter
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i've thought about the c3's , a nice 3 way would be kinda cool, i think Ziegl is thinking $2/300 though, then finding some nice revels or something similar on c/list
Looking at the Canton Vento -- been waiting two years for them to show up under the Christmas tree
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post #193 of 832 Old 02-21-2019, 03:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
Awesome, great stuff. Onward! I find it funny that as you go up the JBL line, 130>230>530, the woofers get smaller. 7”>6.5”>5.25”

Have you tried the C3’s by NHT? Might be one to put on your list.
The 5.25 in woofer in the Studio 530 speakers will out-perform a lot of 6 inch woofers out there, and it goes as low as the bigger Studio 230 woofer

I have owned the NHT Classic Two speaker

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post #194 of 832 Old 02-21-2019, 04:53 AM - Thread Starter
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he's so close to emo , the return would be real inexpensive...
I am about 3 hrs and 15 min from Emotiva --- I wish that their 5-1/4 inch woofer was in a bigger box.
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post #195 of 832 Old 02-21-2019, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post
Done more listening to the Studio 230 speakers

OK and decent/nice for music, but are somewhat limited. The bass is good and is not bloated or mushy sounding and does go low, the upper midrange is somewhat recessed. The tweeter can be a little bright on some recordings, but not sharp or ear piercing, however poor recordings will be exposed. Their overall sound signature is not in the $400 range as they are somewhat lacking in overall resolution -- the soundstage is also somewhat lacking in central imaging and depth, the soundstage is wide but not as wide as some other speakers can be. They do have a slight boxy sound, but they do not honk like the Q A 3020i and they are more cohesive sounding than the 3020i speakers. They are more linear and balanced over the SuperOne 2.1, and the JBL is more rounded and full compared to the SuperOne 2.1 -- The QA and NHT do have that forward push that can be annoying, while the JBL does not really come at you. The Studio 230 does perform better for Movies/TV and do have some decent dynamics, but they are not made for blowing your roof off or blasting your windows

If I were to use some WhatHiFi lingo, I would say that the Studio 230 lacks some pace and rhythm. The JBL can benefit from a crossover mod, as they did not put a lot of work into it to save cost. And the cabinet could benefit with some cross bracing. The Canton GLS 2 is still an overall better speaker, but I still prefer the Studio 230 over the HTD Level Three, the Q A 3020/3020i and the NHT SuperOne 2.1 -- it is possible that I might hold on to them.
Good stuff Zieg
Awesome to see how detailed you are with your writings/assessments

I wonder how much my bright, glass Florida room influences sound?

Can you share what volume do you test these speakers and do you/have you cranked any of the test speakers up a bit??

I also found bass good on the 230s--wide soundstage--and definitely bright sounding
I'm surprised you found them more cohesive from a sound perspective than the 3020i. For me, I thought the 3020i outpaced 230s pretty easily musically in 2.0 in so many different categories from details, clarity, imaging, etc...
Also what is the "honk" you describe with the 3020i and NHT?

I also thought the 230s like the Ultra's tend to be more forward and in your face.....

Anyhow, I'm sure its the different room situations that probably give us different sounds from the different speaker
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post #196 of 832 Old 02-21-2019, 08:02 AM
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Looking at the Canton Vento -- been waiting two years for them to show up under the Christmas tree
that would make for a fun Christmas ...i have read some really positive reviews of the vento.. it seems that the $800 level is where there is some really good choices ( dynaudio, canton ,nht ,revel ,wharfdale reva)
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post #197 of 832 Old 02-21-2019, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Good stuff Zieg

I wonder how much my bright, glass Florida room influences sound?

Can you share what volume do you test these speakers and do you/have you cranked any of the test speakers up a bit??

I also found bass good on the 230s--wide soundstage--and definitely bright sounding
I'm surprised you found them more cohesive from a sound perspective than the 3020i. For me, I thought the 3020i outpaced 230s pretty easily musically in 2.0 in so many different categories from details, clarity, imaging, etc...
Also what is the "honk" you describe with the 3020i and NHT?

Anyhow, I'm sure its the different room situations that probably give us different sounds from the different speaker
Yes different rooms do play a part. My room is damped, but not over damped with some acoustic foam and some curtains and rugs -- there is no real echo with the hand clap test in the room

The speakers are played loud enough to be heard all over a 800+ sq ft apt, but I do not test them at extreme volumes that will not be used for listening

That window glass is not your friend, which can cause a lot of reflections that are not being absorbed and can add some brightness/zing to the sound -- knocking on a wall and knocking on glass will give a good hint

The honk in the 3020i happens on some dynamic peaks in music where the cabinet resonates and gives a boxy noisy sound that interferes with the music and gives a tunnel like effect. The NHT and JBL has better control with the same songs. But there is still some boxy sound with the JBL and NHT, and can increase some with loud volumes -- with that long cabinet and low height of the Q A some compromise has been made with the crossover and/or bracing to meet a price point.

I wanted to like the Q A 3020l, but that forward push was too much for me -- and they do not have that new so-called warm sound to me -- but they do have better detail and soundstage over the 3020, but it is not head and shoulders to me -- and that is my subjective take -- what is bright to some is not bright to others.

Q Acoustics does have like many a house like sound -- and in the pass they would not reveal their measurements to me. I understand why a lot of people like the Q A 3020i and that is good, it is about what floats our boat.

The JBL are not dead neutral to me, but they do not have that forward push to me like some other brands can have that would make me want to back up, but their so-called wave-guide can give a small like horn effect in the highs with some music -- some have called the JBL mids a little recessed, and the upper mids tend to be somewhat recessed to me -- based on measurements there is a small so-called scoop in the upper mids, somewhat like the British did with some speakers.

Enjoy the Audio adventure
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post #198 of 832 Old 02-21-2019, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
that would make for a fun Christmas ...i have read some really positive reviews of the vento.. it seems that the $800 level is where there is some really good choices ( dynaudio, canton ,nht ,revel ,wharfdale reva)
The ceramic tweeter of the Vento is said to be really nice
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post #199 of 832 Old 02-21-2019, 09:23 AM
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The ceramic tweeter of the Vento is said to be really nice
i have heard some (i think including you?) compare that tweeter favorably to the raal used in the bmr...

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i have heard some (i think including you?) compare that tweeter favorably to the raal used in the bmr...

Not that I’ve heard any but I speculate that Beryllium tweeters would be even better. Like the ones used in the PerformaBe line or Focal Utopia.
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #201 of 832 Old 02-21-2019, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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i have heard some (i think including you?) compare that tweeter favorably to the raal used in the bmr...
I can not speak for the Raal -- but time will tell
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post #202 of 832 Old 02-21-2019, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
Not that I’ve heard any but I speculate that Beryllium tweeters would be even better. Like the ones used in the PerformaBe line or Focal Utopia.
i have heard that also.. i haven't gone out of my way to hear one just yet , they are *way* above my pay grade...
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Completely forgot that it was a real wood veneer. That’ll be a nice change. Sort of tired of my Ascends satin black finish. That’s why I like those White F206’s. The black trim on the gloss white is beautiful. I would rather get the M106’s but they don’t make it in white

That would be a great shootout though, Concept 20’s, LX16’s, CMT340’s, Albany’s, and whatever mystery pair I have at the time lol! Maybe I’ll get some more JBL’s with their free returns.

We can always use your Umik also
@zieglj01 sorry for taking over your thread!
The more I think about the logistics and the PITA it was to audition three pairs I think I'll let you do your Ascend 340 shootout vs the KLH Albany's and then I'll do an LX16 vs Albany shootout separately and we can both post our individual impressions.

On March 17th I'll drop off the Concept 20s at your place so you can do your own evaluation of those vs whatever you have on hand for another independent review of those speakers.

I need them back by the 22nd though as that is when my friend returns from New Orleans.
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post #204 of 832 Old 02-21-2019, 10:10 AM
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The more I think about the logistics and the PITA it was to audition three pairs I think I'll let you do your Ascend 340 shootout vs the KLH Albany's and then I'll do an LX16 vs Albany shootout separately and we can both post our individual impressions.

On March 17th I'll drop off the Concept 20s at your place so you can do your own evaluation of those vs whatever you have on hand for another independent review of those speakers.

I need them back by the 22nd though as that is when my friend returns from New Orleans.
this will be very cool...thnx guys , this is a great idea..

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The more I think about the logistics and the PITA it was to audition three pairs I think I'll let you do your Ascend 340 shootout vs the KLH Albany's and then I'll do an LX16 vs Albany shootout separately and we can both post our individual impressions.



On March 17th I'll drop off the Concept 20s at your place so you can do your own evaluation of those vs whatever you have on hand for another independent review of those speakers.



I need them back by the 22nd though as that is when my friend returns from New Orleans.

Taking the easy way out Geoff? Tsk Tsk.

Lol just kidding, that seems like a much more reasonable way to go about this.
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #206 of 832 Old 02-21-2019, 11:05 AM
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Taking the easy way out Geoff? Tsk Tsk.

Lol just kidding, that seems like a much more reasonable way to go about this.
Not really; everyone knows how much I like the Concept 20s so an independent evaluation would be better for others, especially someone who owns the well respected Ascend 340s.

The LX16s are hardly in the same category on AVS in terms of how often they are recommended, or not, so my liking them already puts my views in a dim light!

And your independent review of the Albany's followed by my own would also be of value to some out there I would think.

At some point I'll borrow your Ascends and you can borrow my LX16s for a wider breadth of opinion out there.
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post #207 of 832 Old 02-21-2019, 11:18 AM
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Not really; everyone knows how much I like the Concept 20s so an independent evaluation would be better for others, especially someone who owns the well respected Ascend 340s.

The LX16s are hardly in the same category on AVS in terms of how often they are recommended, or not, so my liking them already puts my views in a dim light!

And your independent review of the Albany's followed by my own would also be of value to some out there I would think.

At some point I'll borrow your Ascends and you can borrow my LX16s for a wider breadth of opinion out there.
i think the lx 16's are probably underrated based on my experience wlth the emo's and having heard the motion 15's many times

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Any thought about auditioning a pair of HSU HB-1s or RBH Impression speakers?
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post #209 of 832 Old 02-21-2019, 02:03 PM
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Any thought about auditioning a pair of HSU HB-1s or RBH Impression speakers?

Not I, sorry!

No free return shipping is a big deal.

I’d consider the HTD L3’s but Zieglj01 said they were under the 230’s and were a bit past that now with the Concept 20’s and LX16’s coming in at $800 a pair

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #210 of 832 Old 02-21-2019, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I guess we’re both on to the next set of speakers. I got a pair from KLH headed to me. Can’t wait to listen to them.
If the Albany does win the shoot-out .... then in reality one would purchase them as their new speakers.

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