Need Help with Basement Speaker / Sub Decision - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 17 Old 01-17-2019, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
SteveMSU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 176
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Need Help with Basement Speaker / Sub Decision

We're about ready to kick off our basement renovation. The main rec area will be about 35' x 15'. The TV is going on one end where there's a little 2' x 13' kickout. I lost the battle with the wife and will need to do in-walls for the fronts (was already going to do them for the rears). Goal is a 5.2.4 setup. Probably 50/50 sports and movies.

Current Plan is for the following...
TV - Sony 85" 900F
LCR - Def Tech DI 6.5LCR
Surround L/R - DT 6.5LCR
Atmos - DT6.5R
Subwoofers - Two SVS SB-1000's
Receiver - Marantz 6012/7012 or 6013/7013 (depending on deal at purchase)

I feel pretty comfortable with everything except the sub's. I had planned to put them in a 18-24" high built-in cabinet that will be at the bottom. My thought was with a fabric fronted cabinet door I'd be ok. I don't need my spleen shaken loose or anything, just want things to sound 'right'. I know being tucked in the cabinet is far from ideal, but will it actually make things sound bad? Should I go with a more budget sub if it's not going to sound right anyway? Would a front-ported sub help the situation? Anybody see any other holes in my plan?

Second question is on the rear surrounds. It's really my only option for placement due mechanical runs, etc. Would a bipole or something like that help? Or would a standard in-wall speaker be fine?

Two Pics Attached. one is a relatively to scale view of the TV wall. The two large blue things at the top are in fact windows, which we plan to cover with blackout shades when needed. Second pic is overhead view. You'll see a U shaped couch with a counter-height bar behind it. Tried to draw some yellow lines to main listening position.

Really appreciate everybody's opinions. Thanks.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	TV Wall Mock-Up.JPG
Views:	32
Size:	89.8 KB
ID:	2512196   Click image for larger version

Name:	Basement Mock-Up.JPG
Views:	32
Size:	137.6 KB
ID:	2512198  
SteveMSU is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 Old 01-17-2019, 04:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
psuKinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,604
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1505 Post(s)
Liked: 612
I would think a cabinet could add A LOT of room gain? Similar to (or worse than) putting them in the corner?

It doesn't seem ideal to me... FWIW.

I don't have any experience with dipoles so I'll defer to others for that.
psuKinger is online now  
post #3 of 17 Old 01-17-2019, 07:56 PM
Member
 
dunejunkee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 33
. This is my set up. I’m very happy. My subs are sealed enclosure’s. As far as room gain I really couldn’t answer that it’s all been there since new.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Basement system: Yamaha 2060, Cambridge Azur 851W, Sony HAP-A1ES, Rega RP-1, B&W CM10S2, B&W CM Centre S2, Cambridge Minx XL,2 JL Audio e112
Upstairs: Yamaha R-N803, B&W 606 Continuum, 1 JL Audio D108
dunejunkee is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 17 Old 01-17-2019, 08:30 PM
Member
 
kngelv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Detroit Area
Posts: 161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 40
I think the subs are too small for your room size. Also your rear Atmos should be in front of your rear surrounds.

James
kngelv is offline  
post #5 of 17 Old 01-18-2019, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
SteveMSU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 176
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by kngelv View Post
I think the subs are too small for your room size. Also your rear Atmos should be in front of your rear surrounds.

James
Thanks for the reminder to take a look at it. Some if it will come down to when the HVAC gets framed around so I have some ideas where I'll be able to mount them.
SteveMSU is offline  
post #6 of 17 Old 01-18-2019, 06:55 AM
Advanced Member
 
golden78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: syracuse
Posts: 904
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 403 Post(s)
Liked: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMSU View Post
We're about ready to kick off our basement renovation. The main rec area will be about 35' x 15'. The TV is going on one end where there's a little 2' x 13' kickout. I lost the battle with the wife and will need to do in-walls for the fronts (was already going to do them for the rears). Goal is a 5.2.4 setup. Probably 50/50 sports and movies.

Current Plan is for the following...
TV - Sony 85" 900F
LCR - Def Tech DI 6.5LCR
Surround L/R - DT 6.5LCR
Atmos - DT6.5R
Subwoofers - Two SVS SB-1000's
Receiver - Marantz 6012/7012 or 6013/7013 (depending on deal at purchase)

I feel pretty comfortable with everything except the sub's. I had planned to put them in a 18-24" high built-in cabinet that will be at the bottom. My thought was with a fabric fronted cabinet door I'd be ok. I don't need my spleen shaken loose or anything, just want things to sound 'right'. I know being tucked in the cabinet is far from ideal, but will it actually make things sound bad? Should I go with a more budget sub if it's not going to sound right anyway? Would a front-ported sub help the situation? Anybody see any other holes in my plan?

Second question is on the rear surrounds. It's really my only option for placement due mechanical runs, etc. Would a bipole or something like that help? Or would a standard in-wall speaker be fine?

Two Pics Attached. one is a relatively to scale view of the TV wall. The two large blue things at the top are in fact windows, which we plan to cover with blackout shades when needed. Second pic is overhead view. You'll see a U shaped couch with a counter-height bar behind it. Tried to draw some yellow lines to main listening position.

Really appreciate everybody's opinions. Thanks.
do you have a set budget for the planned equipment you have listed ?
golden78 is offline  
post #7 of 17 Old 01-18-2019, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
SteveMSU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 176
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Roughly $4k Video / $4k-$5k Audio. I think I'll be able to do it for less, but that's the rough starting point.

TV - Sony 85" 900F
LCR - Def Tech DI 6.5LCR
Surround L/R - DT 6.5LCR
Atmos - DT6.5R
Subwoofers - Two SVS SB-1000's
Receiver - Marantz 6012/7012 or 6013/7013 (depending on deal at purchase)

Just wondering if I could cut my sub budget in half and just get some Klipsch or something on sale if they're going not going to sound perfectly anyway. Or if a front-ported sub would help with the issue.

We're meeting with the contractor on Wednesday. If everything else comes back way higher, I may need to cut this a bit anyway. Going from Def Tech to Klipsch 5502's would slice $500-$700 off. Like the idea of 6.5" drivers vs. 5.25" though.
SteveMSU is offline  
post #8 of 17 Old 01-18-2019, 07:53 AM
Advanced Member
 
golden78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: syracuse
Posts: 904
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 403 Post(s)
Liked: 131
@SteveMSU i sent you a pm about the inwall speakers.
golden78 is offline  
post #9 of 17 Old 01-18-2019, 08:54 AM
Advanced Member
 
golden78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: syracuse
Posts: 904
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 403 Post(s)
Liked: 131
hard to tell what it will sound like in your room everyones room is different. i dont think that the sub in cabinet if use a fabric front would be bad though as long is front facing and cabinet is solid and doesnt vibrate.but for that size room you are definitely going to need at least a couple subs or gng have alot uneven bass around room.and the one thing i wouldnt try go cheap on is subs. if have any extra money saved id put it all back towards more /better sub dont go cheap it makes huge difference is sound especially in a giant room like that. i would start a new thread honestly in audio-subwoofer forum and ask for opinions and ideas. theres a lot people that will chime in on what should/can do. but id would go bigger than sb1000 def not cheaper/smaller, i dont think 2 sb 1000 will be enough for that size room.
golden78 is offline  
post #10 of 17 Old 01-18-2019, 10:23 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gajCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 18,445
Mentioned: 214 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8596 Post(s)
Liked: 5794
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMSU View Post
Roughly $4k Video / $4k-$5k Audio. I think I'll be able to do it for less, but that's the rough starting point.

TV - Sony 85" 900F
LCR - Def Tech DI 6.5LCR
Surround L/R - DT 6.5LCR
Atmos - DT6.5R
Subwoofers - Two SVS SB-1000's
Receiver - Marantz 6012/7012 or 6013/7013 (depending on deal at purchase)

Just wondering if I could cut my sub budget in half and just get some Klipsch or something on sale if they're going not going to sound perfectly anyway. Or if a front-ported sub would help with the issue.

We're meeting with the contractor on Wednesday. If everything else comes back way higher, I may need to cut this a bit anyway. Going from Def Tech to Klipsch 5502's would slice $500-$700 off. Like the idea of 6.5" drivers vs. 5.25" though.
Would this ported sub fit in your cabinets?

350watts =15w16h17d= 40 lbs 10" [30hz] $399 RSL SPEEDWOOFER 10S, (extension from Sound & Vision review)

The receivers you are looking at have Audyssey XT32 so should help with any frequency response issues with having subs in cabinets.

Geoff A. J., California
gajCA is online now  
post #11 of 17 Old 01-18-2019, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
SteveMSU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 176
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Would this ported sub fit in your cabinets?

350watts =15w16h17d= 40 lbs 10" [30hz] $399 RSL SPEEDWOOFER 10S, (extension from Sound & Vision review)

The receivers you are looking at have Audyssey XT32 so should help with any frequency response issues with having subs in cabinets.
I think it would. Cabinets aren't even built yet so I'd have some say to make sure it did. Was hoping Audyssey would help make up for some of the short-comings of my layout. Is there something about this sub specifically or is the fact it's got a port on the front the main factor?
SteveMSU is offline  
post #12 of 17 Old 01-18-2019, 11:18 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gajCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 18,445
Mentioned: 214 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8596 Post(s)
Liked: 5794
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMSU View Post
I think it would. Cabinets aren't even built yet so I'd have some say to make sure it did. Was hoping Audyssey would help make up for some of the short-comings of my layout. Is there something about this sub specifically or is the fact it's got a port on the front the main factor?
A couple of years ago an AVS member replaced his SB1000 which was stuck in a corner with a large bookshelf to the left of it, essentially pinning the sub into the corner, with an RSL Speedwoofer and was blown away by the improvement in sound and volume potential.

The RSL is the most compact front ported sub out there and despite having a 10" woofer vs the 12" in the SB1000, because it is ported, and has a slightly more powerful amp, is a better choice between those two for a larger room.

Here are the frequency response curves for the SB1000 on top and the RSL Speedwoofer on the bottom.

The blue lines are the subs and these measurements to not take into account any room gain you get with subs in an actual room.

Both RSL and SVS provide free return shipping on their subs.




Geoff A. J., California
gajCA is online now  
post #13 of 17 Old 01-18-2019, 11:38 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,015
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 413 Post(s)
Liked: 304
This is the from the review of the RSL Speedwoofer 10s in Sound and Vision

Of course, in the end, it’s the sound that counts—and in this regard, the Speedwoofer 10S is a surefire winner. On music, the bass is tight, with no overhang to speak of. Not once did I feel the sound was sloppy or inarticulate. In a room as large as mine, I would ideally want four Speedwoofer 10S subs—two in each sweet spot—to satisfy me. But in many smaller rooms, one sub would be more than adequate. And two would be even better to even out the bass response; that’s one hell of a bargain for $800. Until I hear something better, when someone asks me to recommend a budget sub under $500, this will be the first I’ll mention. And a sub under $1,000? I’ll recommend two of them.
Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...ghoEkQHhIgY.99

A little hyperbole here but it is a solid performer.
Rgarc is offline  
post #14 of 17 Old 01-18-2019, 11:41 AM
Advanced Member
 
golden78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: syracuse
Posts: 904
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 403 Post(s)
Liked: 131
the speedwoofer is a nice sub for the price but i wouldnt use it for movies it just doesnt go low enough it doesnt matter how many you use. and in a room that size you need like 8
golden78 is offline  
post #15 of 17 Old 01-18-2019, 11:50 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,015
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 413 Post(s)
Liked: 304
You could also check out The Rhythmik L12 which is not too much more than the SB-100.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/L12.html
Rgarc is offline  
post #16 of 17 Old 01-18-2019, 11:54 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gajCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 18,445
Mentioned: 214 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8596 Post(s)
Liked: 5794
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden78 View Post
the speedwoofer is a nice sub for the price but i wouldnt use it for movies it just doesnt go low enough it doesnt matter how many you use. and in a room that size you need like 8
If cabinet size were not, apparently, a major sticking point, your point, while grossly exaggerated, might be on point.

But the OP said this which also rules out the OPs need for multiple powerful subs:

"I don't need my spleen shaken loose or anything..."

In my secondary room that was also my criteria which is why I got two small 8" subs instead of a powerful 15" sub which is what I have in my home theater room.

That despite the fact that my main HT room is actually half the size of my secondary room.

Geoff A. J., California
gajCA is online now  
post #17 of 17 Old 01-18-2019, 12:30 PM
Advanced Member
 
golden78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: syracuse
Posts: 904
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 403 Post(s)
Liked: 131
ok so was exaggerating a little.. but i had a speedwoofer in my familyroom for a little while and it was decent it was in a larger room and i had trouble getting it to blend well with my main speakers without standing out. not to mention after get under 35- 40 hz just starts to drop off rapidly. so then went with 1 smaller sub a m.l. dynamo 700 (10" sealed sub) and was good but alot uneven bass around room then went to then 2 sealed dynamo 700 and when i thought it sounded pretty good everywhere. Then i upgraded to 2 larger 12" ported subs.When i did I realized how much i was missing in movies from below 30hz not to mention my mains sounded even better. I don't play movies with my subs at wall shaking levels but its nice not missing anything and also being able to pressurize the room. if he isnt that concerned with material below 25hz then i would stick to the 2 sb1000 or 2 sb2000
golden78 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off