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post #61 of 130 Old 06-22-2019, 08:15 PM
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Which makes you wonder why they said the tweeter they used was better than for this use than the SB Acoustics Satori TW29BN. You would think with that tweeter they could have crossed the tweeter over much lower and flattened the DI rise in the 2k region
Good point; I was thinking the same thing.

In general, it's a curious response with that waveguide. I would expect that to be more typical of speaker w/o a waveguide and a largish mid-woof.

The reviews I've seen have all been very positive, so maybe it's one of those things that are more objectionable to the eye on graph than to the ear in room. I'll be real interested in hearing your impressions, Soulburner, when you get them.

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post #62 of 130 Old 06-22-2019, 09:05 PM
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Here is Mads explanation of the tweeter and why it was chosen: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...00.7499/page-2

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post #63 of 130 Old 06-23-2019, 05:53 AM
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Mine are available now in the classifieds


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post #64 of 130 Old 06-23-2019, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post
Mine are available now in the classifieds


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-a...l#post58217540
Ah, so that is you. Good review.

Did you find the speakers perform better aimed straight ahead or with some toe-in?

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post #65 of 130 Old 06-23-2019, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Ah, so that is you. Good review.



Did you find the speakers perform better aimed straight ahead or with some toe-in?


Yep, that’s me!

I like them facing straight ahead. The only reason I would tow them in would be if you wanted a bit more treble at your listening position.
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post #66 of 130 Old 06-23-2019, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul McGowan View Post
So I ordered in March with a E200 discount for the "preorder" delay until June. Chose to wait again until September for an additional E200 discount off the cost. About $600CDN off the price.



I'm going to use the cash towards an upgrade in my amplification.



I'm curious to what amplification are you guys giving these? They're hungry for juice that my ****ty old Denon just can't give them.



I was thinking a NAD 758/777, but then realized those things are 3 years old now, is a new line coming?



Same with the Anthems, their receivers are a few years old too.



Then I started wondering about separates. is there any good separates I can get into at a reduced cost that will make these babies sing? What's the forum consensus?



Would love to hear from others receiving theirs in June!


The amps I used for these were:

Schiit Vidar
Schiit Aegir
Crown XLS1002

They all sounded really good. The Aegir was a surprise since it’s only 40wpc into 4 Ohms. I liked the two Schiit amps best, personally.

This was strictly for two channel music. I didn’t use them for movies.

I may hook them up to my Denon x4400 and see how they sound while I still have them.

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post #67 of 130 Old 06-23-2019, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul McGowan View Post
I'm curious to what amplification are you guys giving these? They're hungry for juice that my ****ty old Denon just can't give them.
How do you know that? I bet it would be just fine.
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I was thinking a NAD 758/777, but then realized those things are 3 years old now, is a new line coming?
No. They're just getting good now though, with many of the bugs worked out.

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post #68 of 130 Old 06-29-2019, 12:58 AM
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If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...

https://amphion.fi/enjoy/products-ho...f-loudspeaker/

I'm not saying the design was copied, but they surely drew a lot of inspiration from this speaker.

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post #69 of 130 Old 06-29-2019, 08:57 AM
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Mine are available now in the classifieds


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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Ah, so that is you. Good review.

Did you find the speakers perform better aimed straight ahead or with some toe-in?
Did your speakers come in yet? Have you thought to cancel your order and pick up the ones above?
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post #70 of 130 Old 06-29-2019, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post
The amps I used for these were:

Schiit Vidar
Schiit Aegir
Crown XLS1002

They all sounded really good. The Aegir was a surprise since it’s only 40wpc into 4 Ohms. I liked the two Schiit amps best, personally.

This was strictly for two channel music. I didn’t use them for movies.

I may hook them up to my Denon x4400 and see how they sound while I still have them.
Haven't you had some of the DIYSG designs as well? How would you compare these to something like the HTM series if you've had a chance to hear them?

I've been curious about the difference between a wide dispersion design and the controlled directivity of the SEOS waveguide. I just built a pair of HTM's and they are a big improvement in my room in several areas but I admit I have not done a side by side with accurate wide dispersion designs like Revel.

I'm tempted to build a pair of Jeff Bagby's Helix Dome just for fun, and to compare. I just wish there were more comprehensive measurements available regarding off axis performance and such, which I understand is rather critical with wide dispersion speakers for optimal sound quality.
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post #71 of 130 Old 06-29-2019, 09:08 AM
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Did your speakers come in yet? Have you thought to cancel your order and pick up the ones above?
Mine will be in the later batch. I don't think I'll cancel because I've been credited a few hundred dollars already for waiting, which I've never seen a company do before.

The forum must be doing some weird things - I commented on that thread a few days ago and even had it disappear from the forum. I thought he sold them. Now with your link, I guess it's still there?

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post #72 of 130 Old 06-29-2019, 09:12 AM
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Haven't you had some of the DIYSG designs as well? How would you compare these to something like the HTM series if you've had a chance to hear them?

I've been curious about the difference between a wide dispersion design and the controlled directivity of the SEOS waveguide. I just built a pair of HTM's and they are a big improvement in my room in several areas but I admit I have not done a side by side with accurate wide dispersion designs like Revel.

I'm tempted to build a pair of Jeff Bagby's Helix Dome just for fun, and to compare. I just wish there were more comprehensive measurements available regarding off axis performance and such, which I understand is rather critical with wide dispersion speakers for optimal sound quality.
I'll be in Pittsburgh in 2 months but it's a business trip with a schedule so unfortunately I doubt I'll get time to venture out. Otherwise the HTMs would be cool to hear.

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post #73 of 130 Old 06-29-2019, 09:20 AM
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I'll be in Pittsburgh in 2 months but it's a business trip with a schedule so unfortunately I doubt I'll get time to venture out. Otherwise the HTMs would be cool to hear.
My door is open for you if you get any free time. Be glad to demo what I have, and would be definitely be interested in your impressions as your focus seems geared towards musical sound quality.
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post #74 of 130 Old 07-12-2019, 12:24 AM
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Yep, that’s me!

I like them facing straight ahead. The only reason I would tow them in would be if you wanted a bit more treble at your listening position.
Would these work for home theater. Probably using a 3rd speaker as the center speaker and adding a sub?
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post #75 of 130 Old 07-12-2019, 12:56 AM
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Would these work for home theater. Probably using a 3rd speaker as the center speaker and adding a sub?

almost anything can work as home theater crossed over w/sub....these are like 2 grand bookshelves...they better work
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post #76 of 130 Old 07-12-2019, 02:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Would these work for home theater. Probably using a 3rd speaker as the center speaker and adding a sub?


Or try them in phantom mode. I’ve had great results with this method.


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post #77 of 130 Old 07-12-2019, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by JimmyDaves View Post
Would these work for home theater. Probably using a 3rd speaker as the center speaker and adding a sub?
Quote:
Originally Posted by torii View Post
almost anything can work as home theater crossed over w/sub....these are like 2 grand bookshelves...they better work
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Or try them in phantom mode. I’ve had great results with this method.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I also own a set of Aperion Audio Intimus speakers and have been thinking they would make for good accompanying center and surrounds with either the s300 or s400. Not to say they sound the same but I bet they would all work well enough together for surround sound. They even have matching finishes. 60 day trial and free shipping(on non-sale prices) to try it out.

https://www.aperionaudio.com/collect...-stealth-black
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post #78 of 130 Old 07-14-2019, 01:38 PM
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A pair for sale in Indiana: https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/...helf-speakers/

Also of note, the seller compared them to Martin Logan electrostatic speakers (pictured), and says he preferred the Buchardts. No detail is given, though, and no indication whether bass response was leveled to minimize our preference for speakers with better bass.

Edit: Also some S300s: https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/...mkii-speakers/

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post #79 of 130 Old 07-28-2019, 10:38 PM
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@RMW1982 , please do post your impressions here once you've had some time with them

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post #80 of 130 Old 07-29-2019, 04:12 PM
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@RMW1982 , please do post your impressions here once you've had some time with them
Yes, sure will. Just an FYI you do have to be careful with these on stands. I’m noticing they nudge themselves out of position and have almost fallen off the stands several times from their bass/output. I’ve had many bookshelf speakers on these stands, including the S2 and the Buchardt S300, and have never had this problem. If you’ve seen the Zeos review on YouTube he had the same problem.
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post #81 of 130 Old 07-29-2019, 05:06 PM
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Yes, sure will. Just an FYI you do have to be careful with these on stands. I’m noticing they nudge themselves out of position and have almost fallen off the stands several times from their bass/output. I’ve had many bookshelf speakers on these stands, including the S2 and the Buchardt S300, and have never had this problem. If you’ve seen the Zeos review on YouTube he had the same problem.
Interesting - yeah I saw his review as well. I'm going to make sure they are stuck down with UHU Tac and the stands are filled. I don't run speakers full range so it may not be as much of a problem.
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post #82 of 130 Old 07-31-2019, 05:43 PM
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I’ve probably got 20 hours on my S400s now, and I’m really starting to love these speakers. In the room I have them in, which is fairly lively, they have a really nice tone...perhaps just a tick on the warm side of neutral. Most of the reviews I’ve seen state how big they sound for their size, and that is exactly true. It’s remarkable how dynamic they are for something so small. I’d highly recommend you try them without your subwoofers for awhile.

I don’t think they are the last word on picking up minute detail - without doing a direct A/B with the standard S2, I do think the S2 reproduces subtle breaths, lip smacking, crowd noises, etc., better...which I think makes sense and is probably predictable. But, I’m happily willing to sacrifice that for the dynamics, soundstage, bass and just overall engaging sound the S400 has. I think it’s probably the best I could do in the room I have, and with the requirements I had (within a reasonable $$$ of course)...we’ll see if that changes when the S2-EX is up and running in a couple of weeks (delivery is 8/6).

Last note, compared to the S300...it’s not even close. Mine will be up for sale soon. I’d recommend anyone doing the S300 vs. S400 debate, save up the extra $400-500 and go S400.




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post #83 of 130 Old 07-31-2019, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post
I also own a set of Aperion Audio Intimus speakers and have been thinking they would make for good accompanying center and surrounds with either the s300 or s400. Not to say they sound the same but I bet they would all work well enough together for surround sound. They even have matching finishes. 60 day trial and free shipping(on non-sale prices) to try it out.

https://www.aperionaudio.com/collect...-stealth-black
That looks like a nice center. Wonder how it would sound next to the Infinity Reference line that I've been eyeballing.

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post #84 of 130 Old 07-31-2019, 11:48 PM
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It wasn't clear from the website if you can buy an individual speaker. Anyone purchased this as a set of 3,5, or 7?

Living room: Samsung PN60F8500, Sony X800M2, Roku Premiere+, Revel W763, Revel M16, Hsu HB-1 MK2, RSL C34E, Rhythmik D15SE, Denon X4200W; Zone 2: Speaker selector, Yamaha RX-V495 (1999); Bedroom: Panasonic P50U54, Oppo BDP-80, Chromecast Audio, Advent Legacy III (1994), Denon 2310ci; Cabin: Roku 3, NHT Super Zero (1996), Hsu VTF-2 MK4, Denon 1712
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post #85 of 130 Old 08-01-2019, 04:25 AM
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That looks like a nice center. Wonder how it would sound next to the Infinity Reference line that I've been eyeballing.


Not sure. I believe the Infinity’s have aluminum tweeters though, correct?

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post #86 of 130 Old 08-01-2019, 06:40 AM
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It wasn't clear from the website if you can buy an individual speaker. Anyone purchased this as a set of 3,5, or 7?


Mads is great, so if you email him or message him on Facebook I’m sure you can work something out with him to get the quantity you need.


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post #87 of 130 Old 08-01-2019, 08:26 AM
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Not sure. I believe the Infinity’s have aluminum tweeters though, correct?
I think so, is that a major issue though? I don't think it is: http://averagejoeaudiophile.blogspot...itys-high.html

The S400's are probably more neutral, but the slight rise at the top of the Infinity Reference would probably be flattened by most people's room correction systems anyway. The center is only used during movies and TV anyway, where such a system is likely to be employed. The point is that it retains the same character across a wide seating area and can extend beyond the limit of human hearing as can the S400's - no beaming and no roll-off here. But keep the grilles off, as they seem to be detrimental.

Edit: Actually here's the RC263 center measured by Home Theater Review and it doesn't show the same rise as the bookshelf speaker:

Click image for larger version

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post #88 of 130 Old 08-01-2019, 09:01 AM
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I don’t think it would be a major issue especially in surround sound use with room correction but, measurements aside, I find aluminum and textile based tweeters to have different tonal qualities and I’m sure you know room correction cannot make different speakers sound the same regardless of their differences so getting as close as possible to begin with is still ideal. But what’s “ideal” anyway?! I’m just being anal


I would just make sure there is a good return policy and/or you can sell it without losing too much money if you don’t like the match

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post #89 of 130 Old 08-01-2019, 09:16 AM
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Some metal tweeters sound different because they have a space-shuttle-launch spike in the high frequencies, and it shows when measured. The Infinity's don't appear to have that, so the engineers did their job.

I'm really digging modern waveguides and this "acoustic lens" stuff. I've also seen a titanium tweeter that had the very front of the dome touched by another piece to prevent that high frequency resonance. So it seems there are efforts that can successfully tame them.

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post #90 of 130 Old 08-24-2019, 05:57 PM
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What do you think of this? Can you hear a difference?


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