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post #31 of 125 Old 03-16-2019, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Captain Crunch View Post
So I spoke to a rep at Cruthfield and can even order certain towers and still only pay the $10 return. In fact as long as I end up buying "Something" from them I wont have to pay the fee as long as I buy from them................Hell of a deal.

Just in case you have any words of wisdom I'm all ears.
Buy a couple Q550s and then return them so I can buy them myself at the open box price.
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post #32 of 125 Old 03-16-2019, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Yes, it's a very good idea.

For the cost of buying then returning a pair of towers you can order about 4 sets of bookshelves for a shootout.

More entertaining for us in the peanut gallery as well.
LOL True true and very true!

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Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
Cruthfield now has the speaker compare tool. Of course nothing will beat auditioning in your room, but this would at least give you a general idea what the speakers sound like and could help narrow down the list of potential keepers.

It's a headphone only thing when my son gets back from his grandparents house he went for the weekend I will have to seal his beats and take a listen.

Those Wharfedale Reva's in rosewood are absolutely stunning to look at. Price on them is pretty good too.
1000% agree

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Buy a couple Q550s and then return them so I can buy them myself at the open box price.
If that happens I'll let you know!

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post #33 of 125 Old 03-16-2019, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mtrot View Post
Lol, those just might be your huckleberry!
Truth!!!!

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post #34 of 125 Old 03-16-2019, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Captain Crunch View Post
Truth!!!!
Yeah, I just LOVE Tombstone!
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post #35 of 125 Old 03-16-2019, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Yes, it's a very good idea.

For the cost of buying then returning a pair of towers you can order about 4 sets of bookshelves for a shootout.

More entertaining for us in the peanut gallery as well.
I second this. Shootouts make for a lot of fun around here. You do seem to have some good candidates so far for sure.
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post #36 of 125 Old 03-17-2019, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Crunch View Post
First let me say thank you for you input guys your a big help.

So I spoke to a rep at Cruthfield and can even order certain towers and still only pay the $10 return. In fact as long as I end up buying "Something" from them I wont have to pay the fee as long as I buy from them................Hell of a deal.
So I have narrowed it down to

Wharfedale = Reva 3,4 & Diamond 250

Monitor Audio = Bronze 6 & Silver 8

KEF = Q 550 & 750

ELAC Debut 2.0 F6.2 & Uni-Fi UF5

I talked to the rep about the PSBs but he said there is a serious sweet spot you have to sit in and I wont be able to make that happen so PSB's are out .

Yea I have to narrow these down some more............

Just to go over my criteria real quick.

Easy listening not to harsh or fatiguing

I listen to mostly Sound tracks think Game of Thrones and the like with lots of violin with some rock, country and jazz.

Good separation

Dont want a sweet spot.

Hopefully pretty efficient. Yea I know I will probably have to get an amp.

I don't listen to music Very Loud.


Just in case you have any words of wisdom I'm all ears.
The Reva's and silver will be a step above the Diamond and Bronze so that could narrow down your list. Kef will have excellent off axis response which could be advantageous if you have multiple listening areas throughout the room.
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post #37 of 125 Old 03-17-2019, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Crunch View Post

Hopefully pretty efficient. Yea I know I will probably have to get an amp.

I don't listen to music Very Loud.


Just in case you have any words of wisdom I'm all ears.
I sincerely doubt you'll need an additional amp as you listen at low volumes.

And here is the frequency response off axis for the PSB Imagine X2T. It's excellent and not at all what the Crutchfield rep described.

Top curve: on-axis response
Middle curve: 15 degrees off-axis response
Bottom curve: 30 degrees off-axis response

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post #38 of 125 Old 03-17-2019, 09:10 AM
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Top is Monitor Audio Silver 6.

Second is Elac Uni-Fi Slim FS U5.

No measurements of the Reva or other speakers mentioned at this site.





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post #39 of 125 Old 03-17-2019, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Crunch View Post
So I just found this online...........

For Sale a pair of 2017 Wharfedale Reva-4 speakers in Rosewood WITH Isoacoustics GAIA III isolation feet. No scratches or dings. The Isolation feet themselves are a $400 value. Beautiful in appearance, wonderful sounding speakers that will work in a medium to large room, very accurate and with the GAIA Isolation feet, amazing soundfield and soundstage. Selling due to system downsize. $899.00

For that price I'm half tempted to just buy them but it used sight unseen and I still have never herd them yet. It's safer to wait and to do a trial from Crutchfield with the speakers but .......OOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHH The temptation.

Yeah the Reva-3 and 4's are very nice looking speakers. However, that's about the only thing i like about them! Don't want to spoil your excitement but last weekend my brother and went and auditioned them and some other speakers. I was seriously thinking about the Reva-4's. After listening to them with a mix of different music we both couldn't wait for him to turn them off! My Def Tech BP9020's in pure direct 2 channel sounded better. Much stronger tighter bass, more define, cristal clear highs, great dynamics. The Reva-4's were very warm flat dull sounding. Even the mids didn't stand out for us? We were surprized!! Source was a couple of McIntosh mono amps and CD player connected to them. Don't think these speakers would be good for Home theater! I didn't even like them for music listening.

Right before the Reva-4's we auditioned a pair of Dynaudio Excite X38 towers. Now those are some awesome sounding speakers. We listen to about 5 songs and couldn't get enough of them. I would love to have a pair of these. However they cost about twice as much.

Just for comparison sake the Wharfedale Diamond 11.4 were better then the Reva-4 but both were no where near as good as the Dynaudio X38's. At least for us.

Goes to show you really need to audition speakers and see what you like or dislike about them!
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post #40 of 125 Old 03-17-2019, 04:25 PM
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What about a pair of these? Or the excellent rated Kendall's for a few hundred dollars more.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_405QCY...an-Walnut.html

(Living Room) Sony XBR-65X900E 4K TV, Sony UBP-X800 4K BD player, Pioneer SC-LX502, Def Tech BP9020's, A90 atmos, CS-9040 C and Di 5.5R surrounds

(Garage) Sherwood RX-4105 Receiver, Samsung DVD/CD player, Klipsch 2.5 med oak speakers
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post #41 of 125 Old 03-17-2019, 04:39 PM
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In spite of what others may say, the last two iterations of the Klipsch RP speakers are NOT harsh. I listen to RP-280f with Rythmik subwoofers and they sound great with music which is what 90% of my critical listening is.
The current version is the RP-8000f. They go on sale every few months at $1000/pr. Klipsch historically overstates the sensitivity by about 5 1/2 db, but they are still more efficient than most.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_714RP8...00F-Ebony.html

You can get a pair of these:
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_714RP6...ny.html?tp=186
or these:
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_714RP5...ny.html?tp=186
That will let you know how they sound.

Spoiler!
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post #42 of 125 Old 03-17-2019, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
In spite of what others may say, the last two iterations of the Klipsch RP speakers are NOT harsh. I listen to RP-280f with Rythmik subwoofers and they sound great with music which is what 90% of my critical listening is.

The current version is the RP-8000f. They go on sale every few months at $1000/pr. Klipsch historically overstates the sensitivity by about 5 1/2 db, but they are still more efficient than most.

I think a big thing people over look (not saying you do) is that their specs are in room. They actually state this on their spec pages. So the efficiency and extension will be overstated but is not flat out lying like some people suppose.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #43 of 125 Old 03-17-2019, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
I think a big thing people over look (not saying you do) is that their specs are in room. They actually state this on their spec pages. So the efficiency and extension will be overstated but is not flat out lying like some people suppose.
Yeah, I know it's in room, although I don't remember it stating that in the specs. I wish that we had a standard measurement that all speaker manufacturers use. I mean, people have wanted that since i was a kid(decades ago), maybe by the time I'm dead(hopefully a few more decades).

Interesting enough, and I'm sure it has something to do with my largish room, both the extension of my Klipsch towers and my former SVS SB12-NSD subwoofers were exactly spot on to what the respective manufacturers claimed. Now, my current Rythmik subwoofers go MUCH lower than claimed, apparently they go low enough to get whatever room gain my space has.

Spoiler!

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post #44 of 125 Old 03-17-2019, 05:49 PM - Thread Starter
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The Reva's and silver will be a step above the Diamond and Bronze so that could narrow down your list. Kef will have excellent off axis response which could be advantageous if you have multiple listening areas throughout the room.
Thanks Phase22 The off axis will be important at the moment although I may be confiscating my son's workout room and converting it to a listing room as the had a weightlifting injury and will probably not lift until after he lives for college so I may just confiscate and redo that room....So maybe in the end I wont need it but then again I'll be moving in a few years so to better to not "have" to be in a very precise listing position I say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
I sincerely doubt you'll need an additional amp as you listen at low volumes.

And here is the frequency response off axis for the PSB Imagine X2T. It's excellent and not at all what the Crutchfield rep described.

Top curve: on-axis response
Middle curve: 15 degrees off-axis response
Bottom curve: 30 degrees off-axis response


Thanks gajCA for the graph those were helpful. And good to know about the PSB's because the get good reviews and the look pretty good too. Although this list is now getting bigger as the PSB's are put back in the mix.........sigh lol

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post #45 of 125 Old 03-17-2019, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
Yeah, I know it's in room, although I don't remember it stating that in the specs. I wish that we had a standard measurement that all speaker manufacturers use. I mean, people have wanted that since i was a kid(decades ago), maybe by the time I'm dead(hopefully a few more decades).



Interesting enough, and I'm sure it has something to do with my largish room, both the extension of my Klipsch towers and my former SVS SB12-NSD subwoofers were exactly spot on to what the respective manufacturers claimed. Now, my current `Rythmik subwoofers go MUCH lower than claimed, apparently they go low enough to get whatever room gain my space has.

Well Rythmik subwoofers are tested anechoic, meaning they will benefit GREATLY to their already existing specs with room gain.

Here is the RF7 iii Spec Page:



See bottom.

As long as marketing departments exist, we may never get real, true to earth specifications sadly.
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #46 of 125 Old 03-17-2019, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RKSKYDANCER View Post
Yeah the Reva-3 and 4's are very nice looking speakers. However, that's about the only thing i like about them! Don't want to spoil your excitement but last weekend my brother and went and auditioned them and some other speakers. I was seriously thinking about the Reva-4's. After listening to them with a mix of different music we both couldn't wait for him to turn them off! My Def Tech BP9020's in pure direct 2 channel sounded better. Much stronger tighter bass, more define, cristal clear highs, great dynamics. The Reva-4's were very warm flat dull sounding. Even the mids didn't stand out for us? We were surprized!! Source was a couple of McIntosh mono amps and CD player connected to them. Don't think these speakers would be good for Home theater! I didn't even like them for music listening.

Right before the Reva-4's we auditioned a pair of Dynaudio Excite X38 towers. Now those are some awesome sounding speakers. We listen to about 5 songs and couldn't get enough of them. I would love to have a pair of these. However they cost about twice as much.

Just for comparison sake the Wharfedale Diamond 11.4 were better then the Reva-4 but both were no where near as good as the Dynaudio X38's. At least for us.

Goes to show you really need to audition speakers and see what you like or dislike about them!

Thank's for the insight SkyDancer, Im a proponent for small shop's not big walmart corps. BUT Good God it would be nice to go to just ONE place and demo all the big name brands.........That or just be rich so I don't even worry about return fees lol
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post #47 of 125 Old 03-17-2019, 06:01 PM
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Best Floor standing speakers for around a $1000ish

Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
I sincerely doubt you'll need an additional amp as you listen at low volumes.



And here is the frequency response off axis for the PSB Imagine X2T. It's excellent and not at all what the Crutchfield rep described.



Top curve: on-axis response

Middle curve: 15 degrees off-axis response

Bottom curve: 30 degrees off-axis response




FYI Geoff, the power response of that (what we would hear in room) would be quite bright. The response is supposed to drop of in the high frequencies a few dB, and the fact that it only drops 2, maybe 3, worries me and would lead me to believe that it would be quite bright... see Revel attached graph for almost perfect off axis response.



It drops off much more off axis, leading to a much less bright presentation
@Captain Crunch , I hope you read this

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #48 of 125 Old 03-17-2019, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RKSKYDANCER View Post
What about a pair of these? Or the excellent rated Kendall's for a few hundred dollars more.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_405QCY...an-Walnut.html
I was looking at those and the Kendall



Or maybe I'll just say Fkit and get these beauty's .......Sonus Faber Venere 3.0 Although I read a few comments that they can be fatiguing sooooooo maybe not. But man are they purdy!



The real problem just to many good speakers out there..............Damn first world problems lol

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post #49 of 125 Old 03-17-2019, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Russdawg1 @Captain Crunch , I hope you read this
Oh I promise you if you take the time to write and post something I will certainly take the time to read it sir.

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post #50 of 125 Old 03-17-2019, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Captain Crunch View Post
Oh I promise you if you take the time to write and post something I will certainly take the time to read it sir.

Haha well sometimes people will gloss over certain posts because some can be quite idiotic but I wanted to make sure you read that cause I felt it was quite important to learn how important all the other aspects of a speaker are, not just on axis response, efficiency, and bass extension.

I hope Geoff doesn’t yell at me for that post, felt like I was mansplaining which is not something anyone should do.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #51 of 125 Old 03-17-2019, 07:42 PM
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Those KLM drivers look almost indentical to the energy RC drivers.
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post #52 of 125 Old 03-17-2019, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Captain Crunch View Post
I was looking at those and the Kendall



Or maybe I'll just say Fkit and get these beauty's .......Sonus Faber Venere 3.0 Although I read a few comments that they can be fatiguing sooooooo maybe not. But man are they purdy!



The real problem just to many good speakers out there..............Damn first world problems lol
Those Venere ... I think I'd have to take the chance! Gorgeous speakers. Or, move up to the Sonettos!
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It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.
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post #53 of 125 Old 03-18-2019, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
FYI Geoff, the power response of that (what we would hear in room) would be quite bright. The response is supposed to drop of in the high frequencies a few dB, and the fact that it only drops 2, maybe 3, worries me and would lead me to believe that it would be quite bright... see Revel attached graph for almost perfect off axis response.

It drops off much more off axis, leading to a much less bright presentation
You have to compare apples-to-apples.

Salon2:


XT2:


According to your own metric, the cheap PSB outperforms the Revel.

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post #54 of 125 Old 03-18-2019, 08:23 AM
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Best Floor standing speakers for around a $1000ish
I presume you meant what you said about sound quality and music meaning the most & that they need to last you a VERY long time.

I strongly suggest you get something with a planar tweeter, right up your alley with what you listen to. I highly recommend these:

https://www.chanemusiccinema.com/A5.4

These are custom made/designed/sourced and has a sound signature that relates that fact. Exceptionally priced, I would put these against my MartinLogan Preface towers for sound quality.

Good luck.

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post #55 of 125 Old 03-18-2019, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l0nestar8 View Post
You have to compare apples-to-apples.



Salon2:





XT2:





According to your own metric, the cheap PSB outperforms the Revel.

I wouldn’t say that, but very interesting find...

I wonder why the graphs are so different.



Here’s the graph for the Salon...

My apologies @gajCA :P

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #56 of 125 Old 03-18-2019, 09:47 AM
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FYI Geoff, the power response of that (what we would hear in room) would be quite bright. The response is supposed to drop of in the high frequencies a few dB, and the fact that it only drops 2, maybe 3, worries me and would lead me to believe that it would be quite bright... see Revel attached graph for almost perfect off axis response.


There are more charts in the link for the PSB X2T including one for listening window which is nearly identical to the one you posted for the Revel. That chart is the bottom chart.

The peak in the listening window chart around 17khz wouldn't be heard by most people possibly including your 16 year old ears!

Here' is one of more dispersion measurements.

Top curve: 45 degrees off-axis response
Middle curve: 60 degrees off-axis response
Bottom curve: 75 degrees off-axis response




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post #57 of 125 Old 03-18-2019, 09:51 AM
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There are more charts in the link for the PSB X2T including one for listening window which is nearly identical to the one you posted for the Revel. That chart is the bottom chart.



The peak in the listening window chart around 17khz wouldn't be heard by most people possibly including your 16 year old ears!



Here' is one of more dispersion measurements.



Top curve: 45 degrees off-axis response

Middle curve: 60 degrees off-axis response

Bottom curve: 75 degrees off-axis response








Haha I guess I’ll just have to buy them to see!

But those charts look much better. Odd how differently each company can measure a speaker.

But the measurements still turned out to be quite good.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #58 of 125 Old 03-18-2019, 10:01 AM
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Haha I guess I’ll just have to buy them to see!

But those charts look much better. Odd how differently each company can measure a speaker.

But the measurements still turned out to be quite good.
Floyd Toole opined in the "how to choose a speaker" thread that Soundstage measurements were State of the Art.

I guess you are in SoCal through the whole week so won't be able to test the Concept 20s.

The $1000/pair Q Acoustic Concept 40 floorstanders are said to be even better than the excellent Concept 20s but I wouldn't suggest the OP buy them on word alone when Crutchfield offers excellent choices with excellent return terms.
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post #59 of 125 Old 03-18-2019, 10:04 AM
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Floyd Toole opined in the "how to choose a speaker" thread that Soundstage measurements were State of the Art.



I guess you are in SoCal through the whole week so won't be able to test the Concept 20s.



The $1000/pair Q Acoustic Concept 40 floorstanders are said to be even better than the excellent Concept 20s but I wouldn't suggest the OP buy them on word alone when Crutchfield offers excellent choices with excellent return terms.

I’m actually returning after Tuesday. My college tours will be over by then. So this weekend could work good. Im hoping the KLH’s are here by then.

That is weird though, if they are indeed state of the art, then the one harman uses must be state of the art^2 if they are coming up with different measurements...

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #60 of 125 Old 03-18-2019, 10:11 AM
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I’m actually returning after Tuesday. My college tours will be over by then. So this weekend could work good. Im hoping the KLH’s are here by then.

That is weird though, if they are indeed state of the art, then the one harman uses must be state of the art^2 if they are coming up with different measurements...
Let me know as I need to return them by Saturday afternoon to Jim's house.

Geoff A. J., California
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