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post #1 of 23 Old 03-19-2019, 05:04 AM - Thread Starter
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2.0 or 2.1

Which is preferable for a given price point: two full range speakers or two restricted range plus a sub woofer? Does the answer depend on total speaker investment? Obviously this question doesn't apply to HT use, where surround sound is much more important (in my opinion).
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post #2 of 23 Old 03-19-2019, 05:37 AM
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For pure music listening, I prefer 2.0, assuming 2 excellent towers with good bass. For movies, as you suggest, most would prefer adding a subwoofer. Of course, opinions vary and many will write to add a subwoofer for music as well (IMO, it depends on your specific speakers).
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post #3 of 23 Old 03-19-2019, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVhike View Post
Which is preferable for a given price point: two full range speakers or two restricted range plus a sub woofer? Does the answer depend on total speaker investment? Obviously this question doesn't apply to HT use, where surround sound is much more important (in my opinion).
Very hard to answer when it comes to music. For me you need very good subs to work seamless for Music. For the most part I would say 2 full range.
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post #4 of 23 Old 03-19-2019, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVhike View Post
Which is preferable for a given price point: two full range speakers or two restricted range plus a sub woofer? Does the answer depend on total speaker investment? Obviously this question doesn't apply to HT use, where surround sound is much more important (in my opinion).

If your budget allows for quality components of both, then a subwoofer that is properly integrated will do nothing but improve the already fantastic 2.0 experience, filling in vital bottom octaves.

However if your budget does not allow for quality components of both, I would just go with 2.0, as taking money out of your already cheap speakers to put it towards a cheap, boomy sub would not be enjoyable.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #5 of 23 Old 03-19-2019, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
If your budget allows for quality components of both, then a subwoofer that is properly integrated will do nothing but improve the already fantastic 2.0 experience, filling in vital bottom octaves.

However if your budget does not allow for quality components of both, I would just go with 2.0, as taking money out of your already cheap speakers to put it towards a cheap, boomy sub would not be enjoyable.
I'm allocating about $2000 for my cheap speakers, but was wondering if I should get cheaper ones and spend a thousand or so on a Rythmic.
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post #6 of 23 Old 03-19-2019, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVhike View Post
Which is preferable for a given price point: two full range speakers or two restricted range plus a sub woofer? Does the answer depend on total speaker investment? Obviously this question doesn't apply to HT use, where surround sound is much more important (in my opinion).
I have a high quality sealed servo 15" woofer with a 1250 watt amp and yet when listening to music with my 39hz rated towers I prefer 2.0.

Obviously for movies a sub is a "must," but not for music IMHO, (unless it's pipe organ or heavy synth music with 20hz tones...neither of which I listen to).

Low E on an electric bass is 40hz but a kick drum does have 20hz content which, apparently, I don't miss in 2.0 music.
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post #7 of 23 Old 03-19-2019, 11:12 AM
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2.0 or 2.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVhike View Post
I'm allocating about $2000 for my cheap speakers, but was wondering if I should get cheaper ones and spend a thousand or so on a Rythmic.

You have the budget for quality components of both IMO, others may believe otherwise. A pair of L12’s + Bookshelves of your choosing would do you extremely well...

Perhaps Ascend Acoustics Sierra 1’s? Ascend Acoustics is the only company that is authorized to sell Rythmik because both companies hold such a high standard that is matched by each other. In fact they’ll even give you a discount when you buy them together.



Here is your total for an LCR of Sierra 1’s + dual L12’s.



Here is the total for a pair of Sierra 2 (B-Stock, but Ascend B-Stock is practically perfect, many people have said that the B-Stock is better than some company’s A-Stock) and dual L12’s. This would be an extremely good setup, especially with the Raal Tweeters.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)

Last edited by Russdawg1; 03-19-2019 at 11:18 AM.
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post #8 of 23 Old 03-19-2019, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
I have a high quality sealed servo 15" woofer with a 1250 watt amp and yet when listening to music with my 39hz rated towers I prefer 2.0.

Obviously for movies a sub is a "must," but not for music IMHO, (unless it's pipe organ or heavy synth music with 20hz tones...neither of which I listen to).

Low E on an electric bass is 40hz but a kick drum does have 20hz content which, apparently, I don't miss in 2.0 music.
I will note, though, that the benefit of a sub(s) is not just in playing low content, but also in freeing up your speakers to not have to produce sound at a level that tends to muddy its response at higher frequencies. A well integrated, good sub, will almost always improve the quality of sound even for speakers that, on their own, will reach down to the low 40s or even 30s. This has, of course, been discussed multiple times on this forum, but it bears repeating since the typical reasoning around little to no musical content below the performance of most good full range/tower speakers is only part of the story on why you WOULD want to have a sub(s) for 2 channel music listening.

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post #9 of 23 Old 03-19-2019, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by MTVhike View Post
I'm allocating about $2000 for my cheap speakers, but was wondering if I should get cheaper ones and spend a thousand or so on a Rythmic.
In my mostly music secondary room I use TWO smaller subs with bookshelves with great results.

A pair of $10/box to return within 60 days Revel M16s would run $900 and a pair of Rhythmik L12s would run $1078.

The L12s are a bit more if you want them in white and the M16s are also available in white.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_265M16...oss-Black.html
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post #10 of 23 Old 03-19-2019, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVhike View Post
I'm allocating about $2000 for my cheap speakers, but was wondering if I should get cheaper ones and spend a thousand or so on a Rythmic.
Take a look at speaker measurements here:

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/in...=16&Itemid=140

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post #11 of 23 Old 03-19-2019, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by BluesDaddy56 View Post
I will note, though, that the benefit of a sub(s) is not just in playing low content, but also in freeing up your speakers to not have to produce sound at a level that tends to muddy it's response at higher frequencies. A well integrated, good sub, will almost always improve the quality of sound even for speakers that, on their own, will reach down to the low 40s or even 30s. This has, of course, been discussed multiple times on this forum, but it bears repeating since the typical reasoning around little to no musical content below the performance of most good full range/tower speakers is only part of the story on why you WOULD want to have a sub(s) for 2 channel music listening.
I'm weird that way in my main room but agree with your point as it comes to my secondary room in terms of using a sub:

Win 1. Since you are now not putting in 20 Hertz 80 Hertz into the mains you are not using up the available low frequency cone movement with bass, so the low frequency cone in your main speaker is able to play its higher frequencies (up to it’s crossover point) much more cleanly. You get an apparent 6dB or more dynamic range. You can play your system louder, and also with less compression distortion in the low frequency driver...

Win 2. Since you are not putting bass into that same driver...This means cleaner mids. By far.

Win 3. You are not sucking current out of your main power amp at low frequencies, so there is more current reserve to play those highs louder.

Win 4. Since the cones are not moving as far at the low frequencies...there is far less current draw by the speakers.

https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us...udio-Subwoofer

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post #12 of 23 Old 03-19-2019, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
In my mostly music secondary room I use TWO smaller subs with bookshelves with great results.

A pair of $10/box to return within 60 days Revel M16s would run $900 and a pair of Rhythmik L12s would run $1078.

The L12s are a bit more if you want them in white and the M16s are also available in white.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_265M16...oss-Black.html
And a pair of L12s at the same time would actually get a $60 discount, so would be $1018.

Accessories4Less also has Canton Vento 826s for $900 a pair.

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post #13 of 23 Old 03-19-2019, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
I'm weird that way in my main room but agree with your point as it comes to my secondary room in terms of using a sub:



Win 1. Since you are now not putting in 20 Hertz 80 Hertz into the mains you are not using up the available low frequency cone movement with bass, so the low frequency cone in your main speaker is able to play its higher frequencies (up to it’s crossover point) much more cleanly. You get an apparent 6dB or more dynamic range. You can play your system louder, and also with less compression distortion in the low frequency driver...



Win 2. Since you are not putting bass into that same driver...This means cleaner mids. By far.



Win 3. You are not sucking current out of your main power amp at low frequencies, so there is more current reserve to play those highs louder.



Win 4. Since the cones are not moving as far at the low frequencies...there is far less current draw by the speakers.



https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us...udio-Subwoofer

But Geoff, not all setups improve with the addition of a subwoofer!

If you add a $80 8” Dayton subwoofer to a pair of $20000 McIntosh towers that play to 10hz, you only ruin the sound!

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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #14 of 23 Old 03-19-2019, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
But Geoff, not all setups improve with the addition of a subwoofer!

If you add a $80 8” Dayton subwoofer to a pair of $20000 McIntosh towers that play to 10hz, you only ruin the sound!

I know I've heard that SOMEWHERE before you plagiarist!

But we were discussing Rhythmik so I think the OP would be safe.

BUT, to maximize sound there should be bass management.

In my case in my secondary music room a Mini DSP in between the pre outs/main ins of my old NAD stereo receiver using REW to EQ the subs.
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post #15 of 23 Old 03-19-2019, 03:14 PM
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Summarizing what already been said... if your 2G buys you two large towers which go down low enough would be the easier way to go since the crossover is builtin and already balanced. Buying a separate sub and you will have to make sure there is some overlap at the crossover.
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post #16 of 23 Old 03-19-2019, 07:27 PM
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I prefer 2 bookshelf speakers + a subwoofer mainly because towers are not very easily height adjustable and you need your tweeters to generally be near ear level.

Also a subwoofer can be moved around to avoid bass nulls in your room.
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post #17 of 23 Old 03-19-2019, 07:48 PM
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These in-wall things feel a little last century?

I would had thought by now, wireless controllers are mounted strategically through the house, a server on the LAN which user can access via their smartphone to select source, control volume etc? Nothing fixed, everything software re/programmable.


Not an av pro, just thought if I want something today, those would be my expectations.
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post #18 of 23 Old 03-19-2019, 10:07 PM
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I'm a huge fan of 2.1 (or more accurately 2.2). The positioning flexibility and "point-source" nature of standmounts is invaluable for me.

Pulling towers out into the room and then toeing them in looks bizarre and is a strict WAF no-go. I also don't really like the way towers image but that's subjective. Cost and space-savings is another plus for monitors. When viewed from the side, monitors on stands also take up less visual real estate.

Oh, and two subs in the corners or used as stands themselves is a pretty huge advantage as well.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVhike View Post
Which is preferable for a given price point: two full range speakers or two restricted range plus a sub woofer? Does the answer depend on total speaker investment? Obviously this question doesn't apply to HT use, where surround sound is much more important (in my opinion).
A matter of preference -- one can always test with 2.0 first -- and can always add a sub

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post #20 of 23 Old 03-20-2019, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Obviously for movies a sub is a "must," but not for music IMHO
I agree. We have a simple but great 2.1 set up with an older Polk Audio subwoofer. Got have it for movies!

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post #21 of 23 Old 03-20-2019, 08:09 AM
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As was already said: It depends.

With your budget, I don't think any capable "full range" towers exist (unless you're buying used equipment, or perhaps "close-out"), so I'd suggest 2.1. If you could double your budget, though, I'd say there are certainly options that stand on their own without the need for a sub-woofer. It also depends on what kind of music you listen to, to some extent (IMO).

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post #22 of 23 Old 03-20-2019, 09:08 AM
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Can a pair of speakers be sufficient for music? Sure. But having incorporated a sub, I'll never go back to straight up 2.0 if I have a choice.
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post #23 of 23 Old 03-20-2019, 09:23 AM
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I have both and prefer the 2.0 system for purely music. IMO, it is hard to beat a well made full range speaker by trying to add on a sub to a pair of bookshelf speakers and seamlessly integrate them. You do not need a powered sub to reproduce music like you do an explosion in a movie.
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