Determining speaker condition - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 15 Old 04-10-2019, 11:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Question Determining speaker condition

Hi,

after some years of not having a good A/V setup, I decided to buy the RX-V685 and take down a pair of "old" (new around 2005) speakers that have been on the attic since roughly 2012/2013. The speaker specs are as follows:

Brand: Avance
Name: Omega MKII 509
Frequency: 45Hz - 20kHz
Impedance: 6 ohm (not 100% sure on this number, as some pages report 4ohm)
Recommended watts: 50-200W
Sensitivity: 89dB

After connecting the speakers to the receiver using 14AWG (OFC cable if that matters) I got the system up and running. The sound quality from these speakers are not as crisp as you'd expect though, leaving me to believe they are either broken or need to be restored.

I've check the foam / rubber surround and there are holes in them (as if one has used a sharp knife to cut in them) at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock, on all four woofers (2 on each speaker). The length of these holes is roughly an inch.

Before I explain how I perceive the sound of the speakers, I'd like to ask an open ended question: How would speakers sound with the kind of damage I can visually determine on them (the broken surround rubber)?

I'm trying to determine if I should buy new rubber surround to refurbish them. Are there any other tests I can run on the speakers to determine the condition they are in? E.g. run specific frequencies, take them out and visually inspect them etc.?

Thanks for the help!
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post #2 of 15 Old 04-11-2019, 03:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amthanhkhangphudat View Post
If your speaker is old, I think you should replace the speaker system. Currently there are many good sound systems that cost very cheap
At the moment I wasn't planning on buying new speakers, and the ones I'm looking at are between €1000-1500. Repairing the current speakers I have would cost me roughly €50 (I'd replace the Surround myself). I'd rather keep the present speakers I have for another year, if possible. That's why I'm asking the general question of how to determine speaker condition (besides what I've already noticed by visually inspecting the speakers).

On a side note, I don't think buying new speakers is (always) the answer, simply because the speakers are old. The evolution of speakers, as far as I understand it, is not as rapidly changing as e.g. AVR technology. If it is only the rubber / foam surround that is causing the issues I hear, then it's an easy fix compared to buying new speakers.
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post #3 of 15 Old 04-11-2019, 04:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Here are some pictures of the rubber surround damange. The woofers are 6".
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post #4 of 15 Old 04-12-2019, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by phiwer View Post
Here are some pictures of the rubber surround damange. The woofers are 6".
I refoamed a pair of JBL-L46’s with great results.
I think you should do it. You’ll feel good about it, and the value will be restored.

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post #5 of 15 Old 04-12-2019, 07:19 AM
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The speakers being up in an attic for 5-6 years are likely shot. The extreme temperature extreme for years upon years of cooking in daytime temps of up to 140 degrees and then the quick cool down every evening, plays havoc on the crossover circuitry and the speakers themselves, most notably, as you have discovered, the surrounds failing.

The speakers you have are not very efficient @ 89db sensitivity so the AVR will have an issue driving them at reference for very long. If I were you, I would gut the old speaker cabinets, and then head over to PartsExpress.com and rebuild the speakers using new parts. Inexpensive and will be worthy of speakers costing many times more [depending on the quality of the cabinets themselves]. New crossovers, new tweeters and new woofers. Parts Express. Do it.

EDIT-Sorry, didn't realize you are in Europe. I'm sure there are speaker parts houses there you could get new parts from. But if you do decide to change the surrounds only, whatever you do, get new crossovers or rebuild the existing ones if you want the best sound they can provide.

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post #6 of 15 Old 04-12-2019, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Espo77 View Post
I refoamed a pair of JBL-L46’s with great results.

I think you should do it. You’ll feel good about it, and the value will be restored.
I managed to figure out the real problem of the speakers with the help of some other users. But I think I'll do this in anyway when time allows. My intention is to buy new speakers in a year or so, so hoping these will last till then.

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post #7 of 15 Old 04-12-2019, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Squirrel! View Post
The speakers being up in an attic for 5-6 years are likely shot. The extreme temperature extreme for years upon years of cooking in daytime temps of up to 140 degrees and then the quick cool down every evening, plays havoc on the crossover circuitry and the speakers themselves, most notably, as you have discovered, the surrounds failing.



The speakers you have are not very efficient @ 89db sensitivity so the AVR will have an issue driving them at reference for very long. If I were you, I would gut the old speaker cabinets, and then head over to PartsExpress.com and rebuild the speakers using new parts. Inexpensive and will be worthy of speakers costing many times more [depending on the quality of the cabinets themselves]. New crossovers, new tweeters and new woofers. Parts Express. Do it.



EDIT-Sorry, didn't realize you are in Europe. I'm sure there are speaker parts houses there you could get new parts from. But if you do decide to change the surrounds only, whatever you do, get new crossovers or rebuild the existing ones if you want the best sound they can provide.
There was a problem with the wiring on my end, so the speakers are OK, although could do with some new surround.

I am quite amazed that the speakers have managed to survive the torture.

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post #8 of 15 Old 04-12-2019, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Squirrel! View Post
The speakers being up in an attic for 5-6 years are likely shot. The extreme temperature extreme for years upon years of cooking in daytime temps of up to 140 degrees and then the quick cool down every evening, plays havoc on the crossover circuitry and the speakers themselves, most notably, as you have discovered, the surrounds failing.

The speakers you have are not very efficient @ 89db sensitivity so the AVR will have an issue driving them at reference for very long. If I were you, I would gut the old speaker cabinets, and then head over to PartsExpress.com and rebuild the speakers using new parts. Inexpensive and will be worthy of speakers costing many times more [depending on the quality of the cabinets themselves]. New crossovers, new tweeters and new woofers. Parts Express. Do it.

EDIT-Sorry, didn't realize you are in Europe. I'm sure there are speaker parts houses there you could get new parts from. But if you do decide to change the surrounds only, whatever you do, get new crossovers or rebuild the existing ones if you want the best sound they can provide.
What makes you so sure that his attic is uninhabitable?
Don’t mess up his party. He thinks the only problem is the surrounds. What if he’s right?
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post #9 of 15 Old 04-12-2019, 07:11 PM
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Answering your original question:
Surround damage would show up as an increase in Distortion when played at Moderate to LOUD levels....esp. on the lower Freqs.
Play some sinewave tones and listen for Buzzing as you increase the drive level....hopefully you can compare to some GOOD speakers.

I particularly like the fol. two On-Line Test Tone Generators, where in the first you can select Low/High Freq limits and duration time for a Frequency Sweep...and in the second YOU control Freq using a Slider Bar:
http://onlinetonegenerator.com/frequ...generator.html
https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator
To protect your ears, you might want to wear some Enclosed Ear Headphones or EarPlugs when you conduct this test....

Addendum: Lots more features in NCH TONE GENERATOR....incl. Sine, Square, Triangle Waves, Pink+White Noise, and user select individual NOTES for Tuning an Instrument:
https://www.nch.com.au/tonegen/index.html

Last edited by holl_ands; 06-01-2019 at 04:07 PM.
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post #10 of 15 Old 04-13-2019, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Espo77 View Post
What makes you so sure that his attic is uninhabitable?
Don’t mess up his party. He thinks the only problem is the surrounds. What if he’s right?
I didn't pee in his cheerios. He said "attic", not 'attic space'. Attics, as is widely accepted standard knowledge , are uninhabitable. Not many folks 'store' things in the attic 5-6 years when they are using the space for living. The OP confirmed the only issue is the surrounds, but bad surrounds don't make the speakers sound as he described them, "The sound quality from these speakers are not as crisp as you'd expect though," and I've never heard a woofer sound "crisp". Tweeters yes and midrange to an extent, but not a woofer. Regardless, he would do well to rebuild the xovers if he plans on keeping them, which sounds like he is as he already stored them 5 + years.

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post #11 of 15 Old 04-13-2019, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post
Answering your original question:
Surround damage would show up as an increase in Distortion when played at Moderate to LOUD levels....esp. on the lower Freqs.
Play some sinewave tones and listen for Buzzing as you increase the drive level....hopefully you can compare to some GOOD speakers.

I particularly like the fol. two On-Line Test Tone Generators, where in the first you can select Low/High Freq limits and duration time for a Frequency Sweep...and in the second YOU control Freq using a Slider Bar:
http://onlinetonegenerator.com/frequ...generator.html
https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator
You might want to wear some Enclosed Ear Headphones or EarPlugs when you conduct this test....
Thanks for the tip! I'll try both of these. I might be able to borrow some working speakers from my brother to compare with.

The original problem was due to me messing up the wiring with my bi-wire/amp-possible speakers. ( I don't use either I might add )
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post #12 of 15 Old 04-13-2019, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Squirrel! View Post
I didn't pee in his cheerios. He said "attic", not 'attic space'. Attics, as is widely accepted standard knowledge , are uninhabitable. Not many folks 'store' things in the attic 5-6 years when they are using the space for living. The OP confirmed the only issue is the surrounds, but bad surrounds don't make the speakers sound as he described them, "The sound quality from these speakers are not as crisp as you'd expect though," and I've never heard a woofer sound "crisp". Tweeters yes and midrange to an extent, but not a woofer. Regardless, he would do well to rebuild the xovers if he plans on keeping them, which sounds like he is as he already stored them 5 + years.
No worries.

You are most likely correct in that the speakers would've sounded differently then I describe, had it been due to simply the surrounds being damaged. The original problem was the wiring. Although the surrounds are still damaged, and probably effect the sound (although they sound much better now that the wiring is done right).

I may add that I probably have difficulty describing how the speakers sound. I am not fluent in the lingo of speaker talk (yet). But apparently I describe it well enough for people to realize where to look for the problem, as more people did suggest (in another thread) to look for the problem in the wiring (which was correct).

Thanks for the help!
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post #13 of 15 Old 04-13-2019, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by phiwer View Post
No worries.
as more people did suggest (in another thread) to look for the problem in the wiring (which was correct).

Thanks for the help!
You're welcome. What "wiring issues" was it? You had the '+' & '-' switched?

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post #14 of 15 Old 04-13-2019, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Squirrel! View Post
You're welcome. What "wiring issues" was it? You had the '+' & '-' switched?
I had gotten the speakers from a friend many years ago, and they are bi-amp compatible. I haven't used bi-amp compatible speakers before so I simply connected +- and thought that was the end of it.

The problem was that the bi wiring on the speakers were missing the jumper. I've now connected speaker cable wire as I don't have the missing jumper.

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post #15 of 15 Old 04-13-2019, 03:21 PM
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Gotcha! Thanks for the explanation. Now I can sleep well tonight.
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