Fusion 10/ AA Sierra 2 Alternatives - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 92 Old 05-01-2019, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Fusion 10/ AA Sierra 2 Alternatives

Hey all,


I've had the Fusion 10's for a while now, I liked them but I felt like they were just too in my face loud and never really separated instruments. I am now auditioning the Ascend Audio Sierra 2's and they sound a wholleeeee lot better for music and movies. But I still feel like there are better speakers out there. Is there something under $2000 (bookshelf/tower) that is more of a "fun" speaker if that makes sense? I am not necessarily looking for the ultimate reference speaker but more of one that is great for both 50/50 movies/music? Or are the Sierra's the best I'm gonna get?



Thanks!
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post #2 of 92 Old 05-01-2019, 02:10 PM
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I’d consider the new RP series by Klipsch. Audiophiles are raving over them and they are cheap. You can get the RP8000F towers for way under $2000.

Another one might be Chane, or Emotiva. Those are all “fun” speakers. Should have plenty of balls for theater also.
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #3 of 92 Old 05-01-2019, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
I’d consider the new RP series by Klipsch. Audiophiles are raving over them and they are cheap. You can get the RP8000F towers for way under $2000.

Another one might be Chane, or Emotiva. Those are all “fun” speakers. Should have plenty of balls for theater also.

Wonder if they have those Klipsch at a Magnolia Best Buy nearby. I've been looking at Chane's as well but haven't heard much about the Emotivas being fun.


Can any of the DIY people chime in and let me know if there is a DIY option I should be considering?
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post #4 of 92 Old 05-01-2019, 02:40 PM
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there are really two questions...will anything at 1500/pr sound as good or better than the AA Sierra2? Second question, can I find something cheaper that will still sound really good (and better to you than the Fusion 10s)...and maybe represent a better value than the AA sierra2?

the first question, and all the "answers" are subjective, since what sounds good to me may not sound good to you...is that, IMHO, there really isn't a better spaker at 1500/pr, short of used or DIY, that is clearly better than the AA Sierra 2. Now, the Phil-BMR might have been, but it has been upgraded to an elite cabinet and no longer is in that tax bracket. Maybe the Selah Audio Filaharmonica, but that is a three way and 1800 plus/pr
http://www.selahaudio.com/filarmonica

however, as Russdawg points out, there maybe speakers in the 500-1000/pr that might not be quite as good as the AA Sierra 2, but will make you say "why spend the extra ~500 dollars" The Brands Russ mentioned have been championed as "great value" speakers...
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post #5 of 92 Old 05-01-2019, 03:16 PM
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This is an odd question because of the Sierra 2's sound a whole lot better than the Fusion 10, are they just on the opposite end of the spectrum and sound too laid back where as the Fusion 10 were too forward? Or are you just wondering if there is something out there even better?
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post #6 of 92 Old 05-01-2019, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
there are really two questions...will anything at 1500/pr sound as good or better than the AA Sierra2? Second question, can I find something cheaper that will still sound really good (and better to you than the Fusion 10s)...and maybe represent a better value than the AA sierra2?

the first question, and all the "answers" are subjective, since what sounds good to me may not sound good to you...is that, IMHO, there really isn't a better spaker at 1500/pr, short of used or DIY, that is clearly better than the AA Sierra 2. Now, the Phil-BMR might have been, but it has been upgraded to an elite cabinet and no longer is in that tax bracket. Maybe the Selah Audio Filaharmonica, but that is a three way and 1800 plus/pr
http://www.selahaudio.com/filarmonica

however, as Russdawg points out, there maybe speakers in the 500-1000/pr that might not be quite as good as the AA Sierra 2, but will make you say "why spend the extra ~500 dollars" The Brands Russ mentioned have been championed as "great value" speakers...
I think that's my issue here. The Fusion 10s already sounded good, but I expected a lot more from 1500 dollar speakers. The Fusions just don't have enough bass for me and it could use a ribbon tweeter, but I just don't know. Got to love subjectivity.

I'm about to head to a Best buy to check out the Def Tech towers and the Klipsch stuff. I'll let y'all know!
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post #7 of 92 Old 05-01-2019, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by dangerdan92 View Post
I think that's my issue here. The Fusion 10s already sounded good, but I expected a lot more from 1500 dollar speakers. The Fusions just don't have enough bass for me and it could use a ribbon tweeter, but I just don't know. Got to love subjectivity.

I'm about to head to a Best buy to check out the Def Tech towers and the Klipsch stuff. I'll let y'all know!
while you are at bb, check out the martin logan motion series, they are extremely similar to the emotiva b1/t0/t1/t2 speakers..

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #8 of 92 Old 05-01-2019, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dangerdan92 View Post
Hey all,


I've had the Fusion 10's for a while now, I liked them but I felt like they were just too in my face loud and never really separated instruments. I am now auditioning the Ascend Audio Sierra 2's and they sound a wholleeeee lot better for music and movies. But I still feel like there are better speakers out there. Is there something under $2000 (bookshelf/tower) that is more of a "fun" speaker if that makes sense? I am not necessarily looking for the ultimate reference speaker but more of one that is great for both 50/50 movies/music? Or are the Sierra's the best I'm gonna get?



Thanks!
Tekton?

https://www.tektondesign.com/products.html

Geoff A. J., California
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post #9 of 92 Old 05-01-2019, 04:01 PM
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those look interesting , some very good "value" on their entry level stuff , by the looks of it..

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #10 of 92 Old 05-01-2019, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post
This is an odd question because of the Sierra 2's sound a whole lot better than the Fusion 10, are they just on the opposite end of the spectrum and sound too laid back where as the Fusion 10 were too forward? Or are you just wondering if there is something out there even better?

Yeah I think you kind of hit it perfectly. Kinda looking for a cross between the Sierra 2's and the Fusions. I did like the sound of the Martin Logan towers at Best Buy right now...honestly they sounded like the AA's with more bass.



Gonna check out the reviews on the Tektons, think thats the only brand I haven't really scoured the internet for reviews about.
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post #11 of 92 Old 05-01-2019, 04:59 PM
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Check out somebody offerings from revel. You can get bookshelf’s or towers in your price range. Btw, I am a fan of ascend and have had all of their lower end up to the Sierra 1. I currently still own the Sierra 1 and a buddy has some revels and to my ear they have a tad more of everything, soundstage, detail and imaging. Check out revel if you can.
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post #12 of 92 Old 05-01-2019, 05:09 PM
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Yeah sounds like you'd enjoy a more neutral speaker like the Revel or the new R series from KEF. Revel M106 and Kef R3 would be good choices to try out.
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post #13 of 92 Old 05-01-2019, 05:59 PM
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Are you running a sub with the Fusion 10's? They are designed from the ground up to be used with a sub, not full range. No way they will sound their best without a sub. Used properly i.e. crossed at 80 Hz to a sub, the Fusion 10's should stomp a hole in the Ascends with their mid bass capability. Should not even be remotely close. Again, if you are expecting them to dig deep to 40 hz or lower, they aren't designed to. Used with sub, they will drastically outclass $1500 low efficiency hifi speakers.

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Are you running a sub with the Fusion 10's? They are designed from the ground up to be used with a sub, not full range. No way they will sound their best without a sub. Used properly i.e. crossed at 80 Hz to a sub, the Fusion 10's should stomp a hole in the Ascends with their mid bass capability. Should not even be remotely close. Again, if you are expecting them to dig deep to 40 hz or lower, they aren't designed to. Used with sub, they will drastically outclass $1500 low efficiency hifi speakers.
Yeah I'm running a full Marty with them. I think I'm gonna send the AA 2's back and try the revels and or the KEF.
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post #15 of 92 Old 05-01-2019, 06:37 PM
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Yeah I'm running a full Marty with them. I think I'm gonna send the AA 2's back and try the revels and or the KEF.
I like KEF, but I'd have to lean towards the Revels. The Revels, and probably the KEF's as well, are definitely of a different design than the Fusions. Fusions are controlled directivity to limit sidewall, ceiling, and floor reflections, whereas the Revels will embrace reflections with extremely wide dispersion and very accurate far off axis response so that reflected sound closely matches the direct sound. Haven't compared the two types of speakers in person, just going by what I've read regarding the two designs.

Still surprised you feel the Fusions don't have enough bass when crossed at 80 Hz as they should be capable of well above reference level output with very low distortion down to that crossover, whereas the AA's definitely will not.

Just out of curiosity, have you tried toeing the Fusions in to cross just in front of the MLP to see how they sound?
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Maybe check these out, they’re used, but likely less then a year old. The reviews have been spectacular and I’m sure they’d be fun as many people have described them to be. If not they’re a quick sale away and no $ lost. They were a limited edition 40th Anniversary speaker. Bass will be excellent with a smooth but extended top-end and should have excellent balance as most every Dynaudio is known for.

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/li...birch-monitors
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Yeah before making any decisions I would figure some things out. Like Bear said, the fusions are designed to limit reflections, which can be beneficial for home theater but not as much for music. If you know you're looking for speakers that are more musical you can try the Revels or Kefs but neither is going to outdo the bass in the Fusion 10s. You also have to keep in mind that bass frequencies are mostly room dependent, multiple subwoofers, measurements and EQ are required to get good bass in your room.
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post #18 of 92 Old 05-01-2019, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I like KEF, but I'd have to lean towards the Revels. The Revels, and probably the KEF's as well, are definitely of a different design than the Fusions. Fusions are controlled directivity to limit sidewall, ceiling, and floor reflections, whereas the Revels will embrace reflections with extremely wide dispersion and very accurate far off axis response so that reflected sound closely matches the direct sound. Haven't compared the two types of speakers in person, just going by what I've read regarding the two designs.

Still surprised you feel the Fusions don't have enough bass when crossed at 80 Hz as they should be capable of well above reference level output with very low distortion down to that crossover, whereas the AA's definitely will not.

Just out of curiosity, have you tried toeing the Fusions in to cross just in front of the MLP to see how they sound?
Just tried toeing then in more and yeah, they do sound better. I think after listening I'm not sure I can go back to the Fusions. But still, I wouldn't mind having something else to audition while I have the Ascends.
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Does anyone have an opinion on the SVS Prime Towers?
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post #20 of 92 Old 05-01-2019, 10:45 PM
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Does anyone have an opinion on the SVS Prime Towers?
I found the Ultras forward, not quite bright but forward more then I like. The bass was a little loose like their subs, gives it a slightly boomy sound. Not a speaker I was into. Haven’t heard the primes, guessing it’s not as good as the ultras.

You can check out these towers, small but punchy.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_345X34B/Dynaudio-Excite-X34-Black-Satin.html

Another small but punchy speaker, good energy.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_893S300BG/Monitor-Audio-Silver-300-High-Gloss-Black.html

Another Dynaudio with more powerful bass then the others above,

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_345M30B/Dynaudio-Emit-M30-Black-Satin.html

Revel Concerta F36, I felt that it hung with the upper level performa 206, I felt the bass was tuned a little hot but otherwise pretty good.

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-PvVOTBXEltq/p_265F36BK/Revel-Concerta2-F36-High-Gloss-Black.html?XVINQ=GLX&awkw=367008764340&awat=pla&aw nw=g&awcr=224894449417&awdv=m&awug=9031505&gclid=C j0KCQjwh6XmBRDRARIsAKNInDEDrb3o8no5MvxjZGgxBTvBc0H 4xcuPcPpvqE16yBas9wLkBbndEIYaApYgEALw_wcB
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post #21 of 92 Old 05-02-2019, 12:15 AM
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Revel Concerta F36, I felt that it hung with the upper level performa 206, I felt the bass was tuned a little hot but otherwise pretty good.
Interesting that you say this, as I'm finding my M16's to have the same "hot" bass.

It's a little bit droning and one note to my ears. Not really a fan so far. It's almost like there's more upper bass than mid or deep bass. Like it's always humming along in the background and never stops. Male voices also sound too guttural as a result and a little muddy.

Normally I'd chalk it up to break-in, but I don't know, it's pretty severe.

Do you recall if the F36's you heard were broken-in yet?

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Interesting that you say this, as I'm finding my M16's to have the same "hot" bass.

It's a little bit droning and one note to my ears. Not really a fan so far. It's almost like there's more upper bass than mid or deep bass. Like it's always humming along in the background and never stops. Male voices also sound too guttural as a result and a little muddy.

Normally I'd chalk it up to break-in, but I don't know, it's pretty severe.

Do you recall if the F36's you heard were broken-in yet?
Yes, exactly! It’s like it wont go away even when there’s little to no bass in the source and it’s not very well defined either.

I can’t say for sure, but I was under the impression that they’d been running them for a few weeks.
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Does anyone have an opinion on the SVS Prime Towers?
Based on measurements I've seen on SVS speakers, they wouldn't hold any interest for me, personally.

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/in...nts&Itemid=153

Don't get me wrong, they look ok, certainly better than plenty of much more expensive speakers like B&W, but there are better speakers available imo.
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Interesting that you say this, as I'm finding my M16's to have the same "hot" bass.

It's a little bit droning and one note to my ears. Not really a fan so far. It's almost like there's more upper bass than mid or deep bass. Like it's always humming along in the background and never stops. Male voices also sound too guttural as a result and a little muddy.

Normally I'd chalk it up to break-in, but I don't know, it's pretty severe.

Do you recall if the F36's you heard were broken-in yet?
What have you done to eq the low end? Since they roll off at 60 Hz, what kind of subwoofer do you have them paired with, and have you measured your response?

The M16 does seem to be up 2-3 dB between 60-200ish Hz, so if this is being boosted by placement that could be why.
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Does anyone have an opinion on the SVS Prime Towers?
My friend Ray had the SVS Ultras and Prime bookshelves "in" for an audition. IMHO, the Ultra were much better, but not worth the price. The prime sounded like a wounded cat..BRIGHT bright, BRIGHT! Okay, not that bad, but it took about 30 min for Ray and I to put those back in the box...

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My friend Ray had the SVS Ultras and Prime bookshelves "in" for an audition. IMHO, the Ultra were much better, but not worth the price. The prime sounded like a wounded cat..BRIGHT bright, BRIGHT! Okay, not that bad, but it took about 30 min for Ray and I to put those back in the box...

Haha well that settles that. Could it be possible that because the AA2's have back firing ports that they sound more bassy to me? I have them about 2.5-3ft away from the wall but to my ears they definitely have more bass.



Gonna check out the other Revels, Monitor Audio and Dynaudios. I feel like I hear very good stuff about Monitor Audio more often than not.
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Interesting that you say this, as I'm finding my M16's to have the same "hot" bass.
Have you tried plugging the ports?

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post #28 of 92 Old 05-02-2019, 08:37 AM
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Haha well that settles that. Could it be possible that because the AA2's have back firing ports that they sound more bassy to me? I have them about 2.5-3ft away from the wall but to my ears they definitely have more bass.



Gonna check out the other Revels, Monitor Audio and Dynaudios. I feel like I hear very good stuff about Monitor Audio more often than not.
My rule of thumb...in general, of course..SVS makes some really good subwoofers! Companies that specialize in subwoofer rarely make good speakers and vice versa. Revel makes fantastic speakers and you are hard pressed to find many negatives about Monitor Audio and Dynaudio...so all good choices. I don't know what model Revel i have heard, it was ~ 5 years ago, but they were REALLY GOOD!

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Originally Posted by Vergiliusm View Post
Have you tried plugging the ports?
They don't come with foam plugs and it's not the deep bass port output (~50Hz) that i'm hearing it's more around the 100-150Hz range. It's a unique tuning to be sure. I'm not sure what Revel was thinking with that boost.

Speakers: M040 | X18 | UB5
Sub: VTF-2 mk5
Amps: HK 3490 | TSR-7810

Last edited by l0nestar8; 05-02-2019 at 10:03 AM.
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post #30 of 92 Old 05-02-2019, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
What have you done to eq the low end? Since they roll off at 60 Hz, what kind of subwoofer do you have them paired with, and have you measured your response?

The M16 does seem to be up 2-3 dB between 60-200ish Hz, so if this is being boosted by placement that could be why.
Placement is fine since it's where I place all my speakers. This is just a secondary system, so no sub or eq, both of which reserved for the main room. This is for stereo-only and hence the desire for a large bookshelf.

If you compare the M16's to Revel's other Performa monitors (M105 and M106) here you can see that they have flat bass whereas the M16 is boosted to a ridiculous degree. When I was analyzing that graph, two things stood out that made me nervous:

1. That 8kHz spike. It's pretty benign but long term listening isn't as fatigue-free as other speakers I have laying around.
2. The 100Hz artificial bass boost. I do not understand why Revel would do this. To me it's the most dominant part of the sound. It may settle down over time, so we'll see. I've only had them a few days.

The Peformas have none of this nonsense:



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Speakers: M040 | X18 | UB5
Sub: VTF-2 mk5
Amps: HK 3490 | TSR-7810

Last edited by l0nestar8; 05-02-2019 at 10:09 AM.
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