someone stop me from ordering tonight - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 21 Old 05-02-2019, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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someone stop me from ordering tonight

been drinking. do i really need the amp? ive read the sound is better than an avr.

i have denon x3300

costco visa card i think will add extra 2 years warranty on these products.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_...seq=1&format=2

2 of these

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_...seq=1&format=2

and this

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_...seq=1&format=2

i live about an hour away from monoprice so if i dont ike the result i can return. but i wouldnt feel good about that.

order total is approx $2800. do i really need this for a 12x18 room?

someone stop me from pressing the button.

Last edited by mariogonzalezzz; 05-02-2019 at 09:20 PM.
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post #2 of 21 Old 05-02-2019, 09:21 PM
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someone stop me from ordering tonight

Quote:
Originally Posted by mariogonzalezzz View Post
been drinking. do i really need the amp? ive read the sound is better than an avr.

i have denon x3300

costco visa card i think will add extra 2 years warranty on these products.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_...seq=1&format=2

2 of these

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_...seq=1&format=2

and this

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_...seq=1&format=2

i live about an hour away from monoprice so if i dont ike the result i can return. but i wouldnt feel good about that.

order total is approx $2800. do i really need this for a 12x18 room?

someone stop me from pressing the button.
You don’t need the amp. The audible difference is not worth $1400.

Put that money towards better speakers.

Do you even need more watts than your Denon currently puts out? I doubt you use even 1/4 the power the Denon puts out.

Stop!



Oh also, I haven’t seen any reviews for the speakers, I would not purchase them blind personally, but since you live so close, go for it and let us know how you like it.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #3 of 21 Old 05-02-2019, 09:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
You don’t need the amp. The audible difference is not worth $1400.

Put that money towards better speakers.

Do you even need more watts than your Denon currently puts out? I doubt you use even 1/4 the power the Denon puts out.

Stop!



Oh also, I haven’t seen any reviews for the speakers, I would not purchase them blind personally, but since you live so close, go for it and let us know how you like it.

my denon is plenty loud enough with jbl 230 and jbl 235 and hsu vtf2 mk5
i guess im getting the upgrade bug.


though i am very curious about the new monolith thx speakers. id feel bad about ordering them and returning, because if i do, i know ill return. because there will be sales in the future.
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post #4 of 21 Old 05-02-2019, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariogonzalezzz View Post
my denon is plenty loud enough with jbl 230 and jbl 235 and hsu vtf2 mk5
i guess im getting the upgrade bug.


though i am very curious about the new monolith thx speakers. id feel bad about ordering them and returning, because if i do, i know ill return. because there will be sales in the future.

Yeah, upgrade bug has really been itching me lately. Try a DIY project, they are super fun and that itch gets obliterated and does not return for a while.

As for the speakers, if it’s minimal or no cost to you to try them out, I don’t see why not. Your impressions and review would be a good asset and you can sleep at night knowing how they sound.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #5 of 21 Old 05-02-2019, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariogonzalezzz View Post
been drinking. do i really need the amp? ive read the sound is better than an avr.

i have denon x3300

costco visa card i think will add extra 2 years warranty on these products.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_...seq=1&format=2

2 of these

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_...seq=1&format=2

and this

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_...seq=1&format=2

i live about an hour away from monoprice so if i dont ike the result i can return. but i wouldnt feel good about that.

order total is approx $2800. do i really need this for a 12x18 room?

someone stop me from pressing the button.
Get an Outlaw Model 5000 amp
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post #6 of 21 Old 05-02-2019, 09:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
Get an Outlaw Model 5000 amp

just looked at that. its $650, is that a sale price? i like that price for 5 channels.
i wanted the monolith 3 at first, but the 7 is much cheaper at $228 per amp vs the monolith 5 which is $260 per amp. i am just doing the math.



looking for the best value and everything i read about the monolith amps is very positive.
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post #7 of 21 Old 05-02-2019, 09:53 PM
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It’s almost Memorial Day could be sales.
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post #8 of 21 Old 05-02-2019, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariogonzalezzz View Post
just looked at that. its $650, is that a sale price? i like that price for 5 channels.
i wanted the monolith 3 at first, but the 7 is much cheaper at $228 per amp vs the monolith 5 which is $260 per amp. i am just doing the math.

looking for the best value and everything i read about the monolith amps is very positive.
That's pretty much the every day price on the Outlaw. What are you trying to accomplish with the external amp? Assign channels to expand your available power? It doesn't look like the Denon 3300 can exceed 7 channels. 5.1.2 ATMOS config?

I've heard the Monolith are very good as well but bigger bucks as you noticed.
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post #9 of 21 Old 05-03-2019, 06:22 AM
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Unless you don’t have enough power, it won’t sound any different. Amps( unless intentionally designed to be inaccurate) don’t have a “sound”, only the speaker. Unhook your speakers, you won’t hear the amp at all . Your speakers will likely have substantial distortion and compression setting in before you reach the clean output limits of your Denon.

If you believe an expensive new shiny amp will make your system sound better, you will almost assuredly perceive a difference in sound quality(even where none ACTUALLY exists) This is an unavoidable trait; you can’t choose to be unbiased.

So I agree. If you want a sound quality improvement, shop for speakers with objective measurements that will factually represent their sound quality.


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post #10 of 21 Old 05-18-2019, 04:48 PM
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Where did you post your experience with these speakers Mario?
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post #11 of 21 Old 05-18-2019, 05:01 PM
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people that have never heard a true powerhouse of an amp dont know
go snap your foot on a 90 hp 4cylinder car in neutral, to the floor for 1 second and let off.
then do the same thing on a big block, 600 hp motor and tell me your thoughts.
which can reach redline, then back to idle the fastest, with less effort
i have an old school adcom, 200 REAL WATTS per channel, AMP, that makes a noticeable diff on my already powerful onkyo rz 820s 130 watts per channel.
most avr amps pale in comparison to a true dedicated amp, trust me.
take another drink then go get that amp !
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post #12 of 21 Old 05-18-2019, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Unless you don’t have enough power, it won’t sound any different. Amps( unless intentionally designed to be inaccurate) don’t have a “sound”, only the speaker. Unhook your speakers, you won’t hear the amp at all . Your speakers will likely have substantial distortion and compression setting in before you reach the clean output limits of your Denon.

If you believe an expensive new shiny amp will make your system sound better, you will almost assuredly perceive a difference in sound quality(even where none ACTUALLY exists) This is an unavoidable trait; you can’t choose to be unbiased.

So I agree. If you want a sound quality improvement, shop for speakers with objective measurements that will factually represent their sound quality.


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amps do have a sound.
some more neutral than others, but alot do have a signature sound for sure.
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post #13 of 21 Old 05-18-2019, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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i havent ordered the amp, yet. if there are sales on memorial day im sure ill jump on the 5 or 7 channel. or if theres a sale ill jump on the outlaw 5000. i read a lot of reviews and cant ignore the fact that many claim external amps make their system sound better. i dont need it but its more out of curiosity and i have the money to spend.


i did order the new monoprice thx speakers and have had them for a couple weeks.
these are going to sell


monoprice should offer non atmos versions though. if they do i have no doubt they will be the most popular recommendation for home theater in the price range.
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post #14 of 21 Old 05-18-2019, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
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amps do have a sound.
some more neutral than others, but alot do have a signature sound for sure.
If they are inaccurate, poorly designed, or not up to the task of the speakers they are driving, I agree. Otherwise, not so much. People also perceive a difference where none exists. This is a fact. For those not aware that we are easily fooled into hearing differences where none exist, and that this has been proven, I understand why many adamantly believe they sound different.

Going by subjective reviews of people who swear they can hear a difference will lead you down the rabbit hole of buying expensive speakers cables and cable lifts. Always a good idea to back ones purchases by facts.

However, nothing wrong with the desire to have a very high quality, well designed amp with lots of extra headroom that will last many years even if it does not technically change the sound of your speakers from a $500 AVR.
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post #15 of 21 Old 05-18-2019, 09:25 PM
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If they are inaccurate, poorly designed, or not up to the task of the speakers they are driving, I agree. Otherwise, not so much. People also perceive a difference where none exists. This is a fact. For those not aware that we are easily fooled into hearing differences where none exist, and that this has been proven, I understand why many adamantly believe they sound different.

Going by subjective reviews of people who swear they can hear a difference will lead you down the rabbit hole of buying expensive speakers cables and cable lifts. Always a good idea to back ones purchases by facts.

However, nothing wrong with the desire to have a very high quality, well designed amp with lots of extra headroom that will last many years even if it does not technically change the sound of your speakers from a $500 AVR.
but it does change the sound
thats my point...
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post #16 of 21 Old 05-18-2019, 09:28 PM
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but it does change the sound
thats my point...


Accurate amps don’t change the sound. They supply voltage with a flat response and inaudible distortion. They don’t alter the sound.


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post #17 of 21 Old 05-18-2019, 09:35 PM
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Part of the THX requirements is sensitivity. These speakers are easily driven by AVRs for most.

I would spend money on subs before separate amps personally.

http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/2013322spl-calculator/
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post #18 of 21 Old 05-19-2019, 12:35 AM
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but it does change the sound
thats my point...
Good amps will improve the sound of speakers if the speakers "scale up" with the better amp.

Case in point, when I had Polk RTi speakers for HT, external amp only made them louder, not better because my Denon AVR already drove the RTi speakers to their full potential. When I upgraded to better speakers, the Denon AVR struggled with the new speaker's impedance dip, which is common in higher model speakers. An external amp helped at that point, not only in the power department, but also improved the resolution and detail because the AVR's internal amps were were no longer up to the job.

Which is why others suggested to the OP to upgrade to better speakers instead of amp, assuming the OP's current speakers are his weakest link (compared to his AVR). Without knowing the OPs current speakers and AVR, I can't really make a sound recommendation. Just remember to upgrade the weakest link in your system first.
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post #19 of 21 Old 05-19-2019, 11:54 AM
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Accurate amps don’t change the sound. They supply voltage with a flat response and inaudible distortion. They don’t alter the sound.


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pro audio amps suck for accurate listening.
tube amps have a warm and fuzzy tone.
class a amps sound diff from class d.
all of the different class amps sound a tad diff.
most avr amps are pretty crappy, and overrated on true power.
thats why you hear folks complaining about them shutting down and overheating.
my 2 channel adcom weighs more by a pretty good bit, than my avr, 9 amp channel.
go figure..
all amps sound diff trust me, but youll not be able to hear it thru computer speakers.
youll have to have a revealing set up for sure.
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post #20 of 21 Old 05-19-2019, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nodoubt View Post
pro audio amps suck for accurate listening.

tube amps have a warm and fuzzy tone.

Why do Pro Audio amps suck for listening? That’s just speculation. They get a bad stigma for no reason for being used for concerts and venues for some reason. Someone compared the new XLS line by Crown to a Mark Levinson amp, and said it was 90% there. 90% of a Mark Levinson is better than most amps out there. I have one right now and it’s better than my Onkyo AVR, and very similar to the Parasound I also had.

Tube amps don’t have to have a warm and fuzzy tone, not all of them roll off the highs.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #21 of 21 Old 05-19-2019, 12:29 PM
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You have to look at it from an economics perspective- which component has the greater variability sound - to determine which component upgrade will yield the best improvement/$ spent. Correspondingly the components with more variability are also cheaper to realize differences

From that perspective you should upgrade components in the following order.
1. Room treatments - an untreated room is always the weakest link, and should the the first place to spend your $$
2. Better Speakers
3. Room correction software (most receivers do a good job)
4. Add a subwoofer - getting 1 sub is a huge step up, getting 2 subs will help even out the bass response)
5. Speaker isolation/stands
6. Better Pre Amp/receiver - the pre amp section has more impact on sound than amps
7. Better Amps - in order - Tube amps, Class A, class A/B. Class D. Once you get to class A/B differences start becoming minimal
8. Better interconnects (RCA) - line level cables between preamps/receiver and amp if you have an external amp. Anything beyond Blue Jeans cables is diminishing returns
9. Speaker cables - 12 gauge is pretty good, anything beyond Blue Jeans cable is diminishing returns
10. Power cables, snake oil, rain dances etc.

Notice the emphasis above is on parts that either move, vibrate, or reflect sound.

It cracks me up when I hear audiophiles who talk about “breaking in” speaker cables and how that somehow improves the sound.


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