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post #31 of 52 Old 05-16-2019, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by genaccmiller View Post
Why are you recommending 12g and not 14g and will I need shielded wires?

Assuming cost by DIY wiring will save me $400 and assuming I buy the onkyo tx-rz830, that could end up saving $700. The onkyo is on sale for $499 and I could start with a 5.1.4 set up. Or i could save up an additional $500 if I give up the Atmos and just started with 5 1. I could still wire for Atmos, just not install the speakers.

Which leads to my questions:

1. Should I go with onkyo?
2. How easy is wiring by myself?
3. Is Atmos necessary?

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If you wish to save some money... get the Onkyo while on open-box sale.


It's about the easiest part of an install job... just be sure to read up before tackling it, and be thorough and take your time.


12 gauge wire isn't that much more expensive than 14 gauge and it's a good catch-all wire thickness... just in case. It certainly won't hurt. Make sure it's in-wall rated. You don't need shielded speaker cable or Cat6. Just make sure you keep low voltage and electrical wire at least 12 inches away if they are being run in parallel in the walls, and always cross paths at 90 degrees, so as to minimize any interference.


Electrical power, if you are unfamiliar with it, should be done by a trained electrician. Don't handle this part if you are unsure.


Atmos is the bomb. A gotta have feature.


I also updated my previous post. FYI

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post #32 of 52 Old 05-16-2019, 06:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
If you wish to save some money... get the Onkyo while on open-box sale.


It's about the easiest part of an install job... just be sure to read up before tackling it, and be thorough and take your time.


12 gauge wire isn't that much more expensive than 14 gauge and it's a good catch-all wire thickness... just in case. It certainly won't hurt. Make sure it's in-wall rated. You don't need shielded speaker cable or Cat6. Just make sure you keep low voltage and electrical wire at least 12 inches away if they are being run in parallel in the walls, and always cross paths at 90 degrees, so as to minimize any interference.


Electrical power, if you are unfamiliar with it, should be done by a trained electrician. Don't handle this part if you are unsure.


Atmos is the bomb. A gotta have feature.


I also updated my previous post. FYI
The electrician would have already run electric. I would need to run a/v wiring and let him know if I need any additional outlets. Also about your specific comment on crossing paths at 90degree. When you cross a path it usually will be 90 degree isn't it? Is there a reason you specifically added this?

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post #33 of 52 Old 05-16-2019, 06:15 AM
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The electrician would have already run electric. I would need to run a/v wiring and let him know if I need any additional outlets. Also about your specific comment on crossing paths at 90degree. When you cross a path it usually will be 90 degree isn't it? Is there a reason you specifically added this?

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I added it for emphasis. Some installers are sloppy in their work. You would be surprised.


Another thing to consider when having the electrical wire run...



Anyplace you want a subwoofer... run a dummy Romex 14 gauge wire to the outlet box to your equipment location. Do the same for the power outlet for the projector. This acts as a "legal" extension cord and then you can plug the subs and projector to surge protectors... the projector to a UPS if you get brown outs in your area from time to time.



It's called a power bridge.

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Last edited by Dan Hitchman; 05-16-2019 at 06:20 AM.
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post #34 of 52 Old 05-16-2019, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
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I added it for emphasis. Some installers are sloppy in their work. You would be surprised.
Ok. And onkyo open box is $449 while at Amazon it is $499. Only a $50 difference. Spring for a new vs open? Also do AVS forum member prefer Denon instead of onkyo due to audyssey? Will this be a deal breaker?

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post #35 of 52 Old 05-16-2019, 06:28 AM
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Ok. And onkyo open box is $449 while at Amazon it is $499. Only a $50 difference. Spring for a new vs open? Also do AVS forum member prefer Denon instead of onkyo due to audyssey? Will this be a deal breaker?

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Get it here. Accessories4Less is an authorized Onkyo dealer. It's new too.



https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ver-new/1.html


It's not a complete deal breaker. If you don't like Onkyo's calibration... there are external alternatives that are better than either Onkyo or Audyssey calibration software.

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post #36 of 52 Old 05-16-2019, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Get it here. Accessories4Less is an authorized Onkyo dealer. It's new too.



https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ver-new/1.html
Return policy in Amazon is more flexible, no?

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post #37 of 52 Old 05-16-2019, 06:33 AM
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Return policy in Amazon is more flexible, no?

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Not in this case as Amazon's direct price is higher. You're dealing with other companies. Neither of which look to be legitimate authorized dealers.



Just be sure not to open the box until you know for sure you're keeping it within the 30 day return window.


If you return an item you don't want to Amazon, you have to pay shipping as well. Both A4Less and Amazon will pay for shipping if the item is defective.

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post #38 of 52 Old 05-16-2019, 06:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Not in this case as Amazon's direct price is higher. You're dealing with other companies. Neither of which look to be legitimate authorized dealers.



Just be sure not to open the box until you know for sure you're keeping it within the 30 day return window.


If you return an item you don't want to Amazon, you have to pay shipping as well. Both A4Less and Amazon will pay for shipping if the item is defective.
The picture attached below shows the seller as an authorized dealer on Amazon.

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post #39 of 52 Old 05-16-2019, 07:03 AM
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The picture attached below shows the seller as an authorized dealer on Amazon.

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Take your chances if you wish. If you go to the link on Onkyo's website, the company calling themselves Acoustic Sound Design doesn't even list that receiver for sale.

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post #40 of 52 Old 05-16-2019, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Take your chances if you wish. If you go to the link on Onkyo's website, the company calling themselves Acoustic Sound Design doesn't even list that receiver for sale.
Got it. Thanks for that information.

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post #41 of 52 Old 05-16-2019, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello all - I reviewed all the messages on the onkyo-tx-rz830 board and see that the experience is a hit or a miss. Also my strategy is to use my current MLT2 for surround speakers. These are rated 8ohms and onkyo supports only 4 ohms or 6 ohms. Will this be a problem? So the other questions are:

1. Should I buy this and will it support 8ohm speakers?
2. Should I get a different receiver that supports 6 and 8 ohms and is better rated than the Onkyo?
3. Should I just replace the MLT2 speakers for 6 ohm reasonably priced bookshelves?
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post #42 of 52 Old 05-16-2019, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by genaccmiller View Post
Hello all - I reviewed all the messages on the onkyo-tx-rz830 board and see that the experience is a hit or a miss. Also my strategy is to use my current MLT2 for surround speakers. These are rated 8ohms and onkyo supports only 4 ohms or 6 ohms. Will this be a problem? So the other questions are:

1. Should I buy this and will it support 8ohm speakers?
2. Should I get a different receiver that supports 6 and 8 ohms and is better rated than the Onkyo?
3. Should I just replace the MLT2 speakers for 6 ohm reasonably priced bookshelves?
@Dan Hitchman

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1) Yes, it supports 8 ohm speakers. All receivers do. The 6 ohm setting is for 8 or 6 ohm speakers.



2) I, personally, would spend the money and choose the Denon 6400 before the Onkyo, but if the budget is that much of a concern, I would at least start with the Onkyo.



3) Not necessary at this time. Save up some more and then get surrounds that will better match your JBL 590's.

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post #43 of 52 Old 05-16-2019, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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1) Yes, it supports 8 ohm speakers. All receivers do. The 6 ohm setting is for 8 or 6 ohm speakers.



2) I, personally, would spend the money and choose the Denon 6400 before the Onkyo, but if the budget is that much of a concern, I would at least start with the Onkyo.



3) Not necessary at this time. Save up some more and then get surrounds that will better match your JBL 590's.
Yes budget is a constraint. Get the only despite the hit or miss opinions?

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post #44 of 52 Old 05-16-2019, 10:22 AM
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Yes budget is a constraint. Get the only despite the hit or miss opinions?

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You're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place, really. There aren't a lot of new receiver options with much bang for the buck.



Here's a refurbed Marantz 6013 with 3 year total warranty that would split the difference with the Onkyo and the Denon 6400. Better than the Onkyo by a lot and if you have issues with it, you can send it back.


https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...-w/heos/1.html

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post #45 of 52 Old 05-16-2019, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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You're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place, really. There aren't a lot of new receiver options with much bang for the buck.



Here's a refurbed Marantz 6013 with 3 year total warranty that would split the difference with the Onkyo and the Denon 6400. Better than the Onkyo and if you have issues with it, you can send it back.


https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...-w/heos/1.html
Ok. Maybe need to be patient for memorial day sale.

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post #46 of 52 Old 05-16-2019, 10:27 AM
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Ok. Maybe need to be patient for memorial day sale.

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If you can wait, that's not a bad option.

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post #47 of 52 Old 05-16-2019, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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If you can wait, that's not a bad option.
Yes I have time. Only issue is the 590s will arrive tomorrow and I will have nothing to test them with.

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post #48 of 52 Old 05-16-2019, 10:41 AM
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Yes I have time. Only issue is the 590s will arrive tomorrow and I will have nothing to test them with.

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Brand new Denon 4400H with up to 7.2.4 processing on clearance for $899. Choose ListenUp in the dealer list at screen right to buy from as they are actually authorized. I should know as that's a Colorado electronics store.


https://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVRX440...tronics&sr=1-9


They disappear fast!



Yes, Frys.com has the 4500H on sale for less, but that's in-store only and I don't think there are any stores in your neck of the woods. The 4400H and 4500H are very similar.

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post #49 of 52 Old 05-16-2019, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Brand new Marantz 4400H with up to 7.2.4 processing on clearance for $899. Choose ListenUp in the dealer list at screen right to buy from as they are actually authorized. I should know as that's a Colorado electronics store.


https://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVRX440...tronics&sr=1-9


They disappear fast!



Yes, Frys.com has the 4500H on sale for less, but that's in-store only and I don't think there are any stores in your neck of the woods. The 4400H and 4500H are very similar.
Thanks. It says discontinued by manufacturer though.

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post #50 of 52 Old 05-16-2019, 10:43 AM
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Thanks. It says discontinued by manufacturer though.

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Last year's model. Brand new. Good price. Full warranty. 4500H is barely different. It's a Denon, sorry. Denon <...> Marantz same difference.

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post #51 of 52 Old 05-16-2019, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
If you wish to save some money... get the Onkyo while on open-box sale.


It's about the easiest part of an install job... just be sure to read up before tackling it, and be thorough and take your time.


12 gauge wire isn't that much more expensive than 14 gauge and it's a good catch-all wire thickness... just in case. It certainly won't hurt. Make sure it's in-wall rated. You don't need shielded speaker cable or Cat6. Just make sure you keep low voltage and electrical wire at least 12 inches away if they are being run in parallel in the walls, and always cross paths at 90 degrees, so as to minimize any interference.


Electrical power, if you are unfamiliar with it, should be done by a trained electrician. Don't handle this part if you are unsure.


Atmos is the bomb. A gotta have feature.


I also updated my previous post. FYI
What's wrong with the below for Atmos?

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-oA2Npd...tml?&XVINQ=BIF

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post #52 of 52 Old 05-16-2019, 11:49 AM
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What's wrong with the below for Atmos?

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-oA2Npd...tml?&XVINQ=BIF

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Much like the Mica's, the Polk's are good at moderate volume levels, but lack the punch and dispersion characteristics of the RSL's. Some users have gone from the Micas or Polk's over to the RSL's since they didn't want to spend even more on KEF or Revel or other wide dispersion in-ceiling's and have been happier with their choice to move up the ladder. They would be able to keep up with the 590's better and are worth the extra cost.

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