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post #1 of 43 Old 05-10-2019, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Home Theater Build-out

Just moved into a new home with a nice large basement area that I'm looking to get a nice home theater build out for. Essentially starting from scratch so looking for recommendations for receiver and speakers. Eventually looking to build out a 5.2.4 system, but likely starting with a 5.1 system and will add on in the future. Total budget for the 5.1 + receiver shouldn't exceed $4k

The room is quite large at 16'8"x29'x8'8" (WxLxH) with the main seating area located ~18' from the mounted TV.



@Dan Hitchman has been incredibly helpful in another thread and based off of that I'm leaning towards JBL Studio 590s as they're currently on sale for $500 each and was planning on doing three of them for l,c,r with the center one being slightly awkward and laid horizontally on the cabinets below the TV. Was also looking at the Denon AVR-X6500H for the receiver since it was on sale for around $1300 and allows for future build out.

First off do these choices make sense given my room dimensions and then secondly could use some assistance in picking out a Sub and the Surround Speakers to use
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post #2 of 43 Old 05-10-2019, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Image didn't properly include in the first post, so trying again. Of note is that there is a 22" bulkhead that I could mount a speaker to in the space marked as open wall and roughly the same space above the sliding glass door on the opposite wall
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post #3 of 43 Old 05-10-2019, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Hampton View Post
Just moved into a new home with a nice large basement area that I'm looking to get a nice home theater build out for. Essentially starting from scratch so looking for recommendations for receiver and speakers. Eventually looking to build out a 5.2.4 system, but likely starting with a 5.1 system and will add on in the future. Total budget for the 5.1 + receiver shouldn't exceed $4k

The room is quite large at 16'8"x29'x8'8" (WxLxH) with the main seating area located ~18' from the mounted TV.



@Dan Hitchman has been incredibly helpful in another thread and based off of that I'm leaning towards JBL Studio 590s as they're currently on sale for $500 each and was planning on doing three of them for l,c,r with the center one being slightly awkward and laid horizontally on the cabinets below the TV. Was also looking at the Denon AVR-X6500H for the receiver since it was on sale for around $1300 and allows for future build out.

First off do these choices make sense given my room dimensions and then secondly could use some assistance in picking out a Sub and the Surround Speakers to use


I would most definitely think about doing a front projection system with a basic false wall and acoustically transparent screen or a drop down, tab-tensioned AT screen, if you don't want something so built-in. You have the space to accomplish this task.



The 590's are definitely a steal at $500 each as they were the base model in the highly regarded Synthesis range and designed by the same team, and it would be a shame to have to flip one horizontally if you don't have to. As I mentioned in the PM, you could go with the 8320 JBL Professional cinema speakers for surrounds that are not too expensive that will be more inclined to keep up with the 590's than the consumer based JBL bookshelf or wall surrounds. If you want a more robust surround that has a similar compression tweeter to the Synthesis based one in the 590's, then I did see Ebay listings from the same seller who had two pairs of the older, better 8340a professional cinema surrounds.


Another option would be an additional pair of 590's for the lower level surrounds for the ultimate in Atmos surround and multi-channel music. It all depends on potential floor space utilization, of course, and the budgeting flexibility.

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Last edited by Dan Hitchman; 05-10-2019 at 03:17 PM.
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post #4 of 43 Old 05-10-2019, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Hampton View Post
Image didn't properly include in the first post, so trying again. Of note is that there is a 22" bulkhead that I could mount a speaker to in the space marked as open wall and roughly the same space above the sliding glass door on the opposite wall

Does this space already have a fireplace built-in or is that where you would want one? Either way... I would get rid of it if at all possible. They're terribly energy inefficient and usable space hogs. I would also look to closing off the open wall section with another door or a totally enclosed wall if the door listed also acts as access to the other part of the basement. That's best for helping to contain sound within and for a better noise floor internally by helping to keep outside sounds from of the theater area. You will then gain wall area for other speakers, etc.


Do you have photos of the basement area?

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Last edited by Dan Hitchman; 05-10-2019 at 03:20 PM.
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post #5 of 43 Old 05-10-2019, 03:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I may eventually do a projector and go with the false wall, but for now have a 75" 4k TCL TV and hoping prices on 4k projectors come down significantly in the next couple years as I previously had a BENQ HT1075 projector that stayed in the old house and while the picture quality on it was good, the 4k is quite a bit better.

I'm a little surprised that either the 8320 or 8340a will keep up better than the larger bookshelves, but honestly if that's the case then great as it looks like they're smaller which will probably look better after it's mounted. I'll check out the 8340a speakers, but I'm not sure how comfortable I am picking them up used.
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post #6 of 43 Old 05-10-2019, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Hampton View Post
I may eventually do a projector and go with the false wall, but for now have a 75" 4k TCL TV and hoping prices on 4k projectors come down significantly in the next couple years as I previously had a BENQ HT1075 projector that stayed in the old house and while the picture quality on it was good, the 4k is quite a bit better.

I'm a little surprised that either the 8320 or 8340a will keep up better than the larger bookshelves, but honestly if that's the case then great as it looks like they're smaller which will probably look better after it's mounted. I'll check out the 8340a speakers, but I'm not sure how comfortable I am picking them up used.

The base Studio 2 Series line for JBL is quite consumer oriented (210 and 230). They're not as efficient, nor do they have the bass response compared to cinema grade speakers. The cinema surrounds are also more capable of higher SPL's as they're designed for auditoriums and are THX cinema certified. The 590's can get quite loud too without breaking a sweat - their large home theater pedigree is apparent.



If you don't want to chance the better 8340a models as used, then take a look here for the basic 8320's. Make sure they are selling them as a pair:


http://www.proaudiosolutions.com/JBL-8320-p/8320.htm


You need the JBL 2516 mounts, one for each surround. I have seen them cheaper than at Pro Audio Solutions, but you just have to snoop on Google.

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post #7 of 43 Old 05-10-2019, 03:41 PM
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As for a subwoofer... I would consider starting with one of these amazing 15" Power Sound Audio models:



https://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/V1510


Power Sound Audio is the brainchild of the original owner and developer of SVS.

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post #8 of 43 Old 05-10-2019, 03:50 PM
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In the other thread you came from, the OP there was able to haggle for an additional 20% off the JBL 590 speakers. YMMV.

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post #9 of 43 Old 05-10-2019, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you so much for all the help navigating through this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Does this space already have a fireplace built-in or is that where you would want one? Either way... I would get rid of it if at all possible. They're terribly energy inefficient and usable space hogs. I would also look to closing off the open wall section with another door or a totally enclosed wall if the door listed also acts as access to the other part of the basement. That's best for helping to contain sound within and for a better noise floor internally by helping to keep outside sounds from of the theater area. You will then gain wall area for other speakers, etc.


Do you have photos of the basement area?
Attached a couple pictures of the room (including kids cartoons on the TV and toys strewn everywhere). I'm not a huge fan of the fireplace, but we have a lot of projects in the house that take precedence over doing anything different in that space. The open wall section can't really be closed off either. Not an ideal room layout for a home theater, but hopefully can still make it work out well.

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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
The base Studio 2 Series line for JBL is quite consumer oriented (210 and 230). They're not as efficient, nor do they have the bass response compared to cinema grade speakers. The cinema surrounds are also more capable of higher SPL's as they're designed for auditoriums and are THX cinema certified. The 590's can get quite loud too without breaking a sweat - their large home theater pedigree is apparent.



If you don't want to chance the better 8340a models as used, then take a look here for the basic 8320's. Make sure they are selling them as a pair:


http://www.proaudiosolutions.com/JBL-8320-p/8320.htm


You need the JBL 2516 mounts, one for each surround. I have seen them cheaper than at Pro Audio Solutions, but you just have to snoop on Google.
Thanks for the clarification. I'll definitely search around and see what kind of deals I can stir up on either of those models.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
As for a subwoofer... I would consider starting with one of these amazing 15" Power Sound Audio models:



https://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/V1510


Power Sound Audio is the brainchild of the original owner and developer of SVS.
Great I'll check it out. A little pricier than I expected, but I also know it's a large space so may need that power to fill it

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In the other thread you came from, the OP there was able to haggle for an additional 20% off the JBL 590 speakers. YMMV.
I called them up earlier today and apparently I'm nowhere near as good at haggling as I could only get 10% off, still better than nothing and never would have thought to do that if it weren't for the other thread
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post #10 of 43 Old 05-10-2019, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Hampton View Post
Thank you so much for all the help navigating through this.



Attached a couple pictures of the room (including kids cartoons on the TV and toys strewn everywhere). I'm not a huge fan of the fireplace, but we have a lot of projects in the house that take precedence over doing anything different in that space. The open wall section can't really be closed off either. Not an ideal room layout for a home theater, but hopefully can still make it work out well.



Thanks for the clarification. I'll definitely search around and see what kind of deals I can stir up on either of those models.



Great I'll check it out. A little pricier than I expected, but I also know it's a large space so may need that power to fill it



I called them up earlier today and apparently I'm nowhere near as good at haggling as I could only get 10% off, still better than nothing and never would have thought to do that if it weren't for the other thread
Consider framing out another door in the open wall. It will help quite a bit. You could place your equipment in one of those side rooms. That would help with clutter.

If you are considering a false wall with acoustic screen and even perhaps a stage, you will be dealing with a doorway and a sliding glass door quite potentially in the way. Either or both can be dealt with, but it will mean extensive remodeling is in your future.

Did you jump on the 590’s anyway? The sale will be over soon. The reason they are being recommended is that they are a heck of a lot of speaker at the sale price offered. At full price there is some competition.

The PSA 15” sub will move you to tears, the vented version especially, in your larger room. Baton down the hatches.

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!

Last edited by Dan Hitchman; 05-10-2019 at 09:29 PM.
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post #11 of 43 Old 05-10-2019, 09:56 PM
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One thing we haven't discussed is a general budget... and if there is any potential wiggle room. You want to remain a little flexible and not skimp and overly compromise if you're within a few hundred or so off your goal. That's just self defeating. Sometimes it's good to buy a little over time if funds are tight. Prioritize your budget with the most going to the speakers and subs, and possible external power amps if necessary. That is the backbone of a theater system. Buy smartly and those items can last through many other upgrades and swap outs.



You have a large space, so you need speakers and subs that can handle the task. Screen size depends on how you want to arrange your seating. Do you want to stage seating with two rows? How close do you wish to sit? Which is the prime row if you have two? The bigger the future screen, the better the projector you need to consider (light output vs contrast ratio).



There are lots of things to mull over. But if you take things a step at a time, it will all go calmly and smoothly.

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!

Last edited by Dan Hitchman; 05-10-2019 at 10:42 PM.
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post #12 of 43 Old 05-11-2019, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Hampton View Post
Just moved into a new home with a nice large basement area that I'm looking to get a nice home theater build out for. Essentially starting from scratch so looking for recommendations for receiver and speakers. Eventually looking to build out a 5.2.4 system, but likely starting with a 5.1 system and will add on in the future. Total budget for the 5.1 + receiver shouldn't exceed $4k



The room is quite large at 16'8"x29'x8'8" (WxLxH) with the main seating area located ~18' from the mounted TV.






@Dan Hitchman has been incredibly helpful in another thread and based off of that I'm leaning towards JBL Studio 590s as they're currently on sale for $500 each and was planning on doing three of them for l,c,r with the center one being slightly awkward and laid horizontally on the cabinets below the TV. Was also looking at the Denon AVR-X6500H for the receiver since it was on sale for around $1300 and allows for future build out.



First off do these choices make sense given my room dimensions and then secondly could use some assistance in picking out a Sub and the Surround Speakers to use
For the JBLs I got three of them without tax for about $1250. I haggled with JBL for a 15% discount as every dollar counts.

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post #13 of 43 Old 05-11-2019, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
In the other thread you came from, the OP there was able to haggle for an additional 20% off the JBL 590 speakers. YMMV.
Yes the way it worked out was they gave me a 10pct discount on two or more items. I called back again and asked and the rep said they could only have done 20pct on two. I called back again and asked for a 20pct that I could use on one order of one speaker and 10pct I could use on an order of two speakers. When I put all the codes in one order the way it worked was it gave 20pct discount on one and 10pct discount on all three effectively giving me a 15% discount. So I paid about $1250 without tax.

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post #14 of 43 Old 05-11-2019, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Hampton View Post
Thank you so much for all the help navigating through this.







Attached a couple pictures of the room (including kids cartoons on the TV and toys strewn everywhere). I'm not a huge fan of the fireplace, but we have a lot of projects in the house that take precedence over doing anything different in that space. The open wall section can't really be closed off either. Not an ideal room layout for a home theater, but hopefully can still make it work out well.







Thanks for the clarification. I'll definitely search around and see what kind of deals I can stir up on either of those models.







Great I'll check it out. A little pricier than I expected, but I also know it's a large space so may need that power to fill it







I called them up earlier today and apparently I'm nowhere near as good at haggling as I could only get 10% off, still better than nothing and never would have thought to do that if it weren't for the other thread
See the strategy I used that I posted.

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post #15 of 43 Old 05-11-2019, 03:43 AM
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Not that Dan needs any nomination, but I second everything he wrote.
JBL Studio 590's on sale - YES!!!
Denon 6500 (yes, but maybe go with the 4500 and an inexpensive separate amp later if you really need the 10th and 11th channels.)
Projector with acoustically transparent screen so you don't have to lay that center JBL down - Hell YES!
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Not that Dan needs any nomination, but I second everything he wrote.

JBL Studio 590's on sale - YES!!!

Denon 6500 (yes, but maybe go with the 4500 and an inexpensive separate amp later if you really need the 10th and 11th channels.)

Projector with acoustically transparent screen so you don't have to lay that center JBL down - Hell YES!
Acoustic screen is exactly what I am going to do.

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post #17 of 43 Old 05-11-2019, 06:34 AM
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Yes the way it worked out was they gave me a 10pct discount on two or more items. I called back again and asked and the rep said they could only have done 20pct on two. I called back again and asked for a 20pct that I could use on one order of one speaker and 10pct I could use on an order of two speakers. When I put all the codes in one order the way it worked was it gave 20pct discount on one and 10pct discount on all three effectively giving me a 15% discount. So I paid about $1250 without tax.

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Thanks for the clarification. They should be arriving soon... I'm sure the excitement of those big boxes is growing!

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Absolutely. Very excited. I just hope it is not an overkill for the room size I have.

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post #19 of 43 Old 05-11-2019, 07:58 AM
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Absolutely. Very excited. I just hope it is not an overkill for the room size I have.

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On AVS, there is no such word as overkill! You'll love 'em and I'm sure you will do whatever you can to make them shine.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidK442 View Post
Not that Dan needs any nomination, but I second everything he wrote.
JBL Studio 590's on sale - YES!!!
Denon 6500 (yes, but maybe go with the 4500 and an inexpensive separate amp later if you really need the 10th and 11th channels.)
Projector with acoustically transparent screen so you don't have to lay that center JBL down - Hell YES!
Thanks, always great to hear further confirmation. I just looked at the 4500 and it's actually more than the sale price I was able to get for the 6500 which helps me feel better about picking up the 6500 since that's the most expensive piece of the setup.
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post #21 of 43 Old 05-11-2019, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Hampton View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidK442 View Post
Not that Dan needs any nomination, but I second everything he wrote.
JBL Studio 590's on sale - YES!!!
Denon 6500 (yes, but maybe go with the 4500 and an inexpensive separate amp later if you really need the 10th and 11th channels.)
Projector with acoustically transparent screen so you don't have to lay that center JBL down - Hell YES!
Thanks, always great to hear further confirmation. I just looked at the 4500 and it's actually more than the sale price I was able to get for the 6500 which helps me feel better about picking up the 6500 since that's the most expensive piece of the setup.
Great! The 6500 is a very nice receiver. What all do you have picked out so far?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Hampton View Post
I'm leaning towards JBL Studio 590s as they're currently on sale for $500 each and was planning on doing three of them for l,c,r with the center one being slightly awkward and laid horizontally on the cabinets below the TV.
Laying a 590 on its side hardly sounds like a great plan while three vertically does.

The wave guide is taller than it is wide.

Have you considered the very well received Chanes?

Very dynamic, horizontal center, saves you some money.

https://www.chanemusiccinema.com/a-series-speakers/

Have you considered the $749 Denon 4400 which can be expanded to 7.1.4 with a $200 outboard amp?

https://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVRX440...a-492737901081

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post #23 of 43 Old 05-11-2019, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Great! The 6500 is a very nice receiver. What all do you have picked out so far?
So far just the receiver and the 590s for LCR. Waiting to hear back on whether I'm able to get the second discount code that @genaccmiller was able to get and will order once I officially know either way. Haven't had a chance to follow-up on the 8320s yet to determine if that $305 price was for the pair or just a single. Also watching some listings on the 8340a's to see if there are any deals to be had. Haven't had much opportunity to research on the sub yet, but I've heard such good things about SVS so given the relationship between SVS and PSA I'm sure the PSA is great. Just want to make sure I'm hitting the right spot for value especially since I'll likely pick up a second one at some point down the road.

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Laying a 590 on its side hardly sounds like a great plan while three vertically does.

The wave guide is taller than it is wide.

Have you considered the very well received Chanes?

Very dynamic, horizontal center, saves you some money.

https://www.chanemusiccinema.com/a-series-speakers/

Have you considered the $749 Denon 4400 which can be expanded to 7.1.4 with a $200 outboard amp?

https://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVRX440...a-492737901081
Yeah putting the 590 horizontal is my big concern with the setup. Eventually I do plan on going back to a projector and will likely do a fake wall and stand it up vertically, but I'm not willing to invest in a 4k projector at this point as hoping they become more reasonable in the future.

I was able to pick up a new Denon 6500 for $1370 so the Denon 4400 with the outboard amp could get there, but total cost of that setup would be just under $1000 before tax since shipping isn't free and significantly worse warranty since it's a refurbished unit. I'm almost exclusively going off of recommendations as you all know far more about all of this than I do so hopefully the extra couple hundred for the 6500 is worth it.
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post #24 of 43 Old 05-11-2019, 05:45 PM
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There is another excellent option if you are willing to spend a bit more for each speaker and are considering this as a system geared toward movies rather than music reproduction (though I'm not saying it can't do both well).


I bring this up since it is indeed hard shopping for matching speakers that are at the end of their model life where you have to dip into the JBL cinema speaker realm to round out the set, even if they are good.


This would also shrink the size of the speakers by quite a lot too, though not their sheer sound output and clarity. They would also be extremely easy to drive to insane levels with minimal strain on the receiver since they are honestly high sensitivity units. 95 dB @ 1 watt/1 meter for the MT-110's or 98dB @ 1 watt/1 meter for the MTM-210's.





A front LCR stage of Power Sound Audio MT-110 bookshelf monitors. Or if you want to go to the next level of awesome with more mid bass presence and more authority, the MTM-210's.



MT-110SR's for surrounds or the JBL 8340a's if you can get a deal on them.



We can keep looking at the overheads.



PSA speakers are in another class and to me crush Klipsch horns because they're actual compression tweeters that are much smoother (like the 590's but more output) not cheap metal domes stuck in a horn guide. You will be transported to the next sonic frontier.

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Last edited by Dan Hitchman; 05-11-2019 at 05:58 PM.
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post #25 of 43 Old 05-11-2019, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah the full PSA speaker set is definitely out of my budget. Total budget for speakers and receiver is around $4000. With the receiver and 3x590s that puts me with a little over 1k left for surrounds and Sub. I hadn't fully added everything up until now, but that does mean that the 15" PSA Sub is going to put me over budget. Definitely want to avoid buying something that I'd want to replace in a short amount of time though
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post #26 of 43 Old 05-11-2019, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew Hampton View Post
Yeah the full PSA speaker set is definitely out of my budget. Total budget for speakers and receiver is around $4000. With the receiver and 3x590s that puts me with a little over 1k left for surrounds and Sub. I hadn't fully added everything up until now, but that does mean that the 15" PSA Sub is going to put me over budget. Definitely want to avoid buying something that I'd want to replace in a short amount of time though

In that case, skip the sub for now... focus on the surrounds. You do want something that will hold their own with the 590's and sound similar, or the audio system can get a bit lopsided. The 590's do have a decent bass response that can tied you over for a bit. I take it you finally snagged them?



Maybe hold off on the overheads too... but at least plan for them in your wiring scheme. Replenish your budget and then round everything out.




I'm looking forward to CEDIA this year as I hope there will be demos of the latest, more "reasonable" true 4k projectors coming out. They are getting into the normal person pricing realm.

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post #27 of 43 Old 05-12-2019, 08:49 AM
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Hey Andrew!


Are you averse to dabbling in building your own speakers with a well reviewed and popular DIY kit? If you're game, you could get Volt 8 Version 2 kits with the angled or standard ported Volt 8 flat packs (depending on how you wish to mount the surrounds and design your theater) for about $187 each (plus solder gear and wood glue). They use top quality coaxial drivers and real compression tweeters that can keep up with the JBL's.


Maybe get one to try your hand. If you like the results, then buy the rest. You can also make them with Atmos flat packs for the ceiling overheads.


https://www.diysoundgroup.com/home-t...ries/volt.html

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Hey Andrew!


Are you averse to dabbling in building your own speakers with a well reviewed and popular DIY kit? If you're game, you could get Volt 8 Version 2 kits with the angled or standard ported Volt 8 flat packs (depending on how you wish to mount the surrounds and design your theater) for about $187 each (plus solder gear and wood glue). They use top quality coaxial drivers and real compression tweeters that can keep up with the JBL's.


Maybe get one to try your hand. If you like the results, then buy the rest. You can also make them with Atmos flat packs for the ceiling overheads.


https://www.diysoundgroup.com/home-t...ries/volt.html
I've officially ordered the 590s which will show up in a couple days. I'm still watching some things on the JBL surrounds so if nothing pans out there then I may consider the DIY kit, but it's been years since I've soldered and was never particularly great at it so that's definitely not at the top of my list.
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post #29 of 43 Old 05-16-2019, 02:32 PM
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I've officially ordered the 590s which will show up in a couple days. I'm still watching some things on the JBL surrounds so if nothing pans out there then I may consider the DIY kit, but it's been years since I've soldered and was never particularly great at it so that's definitely not at the top of my list.

I've been reading a little bit about various ideas for JBL speakers that would work well with the 590's and came across a few home theater owners using these wide-dispersal, coaxial architectural speakers. They have similar drivers to JBL's commercial cinema line that are often used in JBL Synthesis based home theaters (the 590's came from the Synthesis group at Harman), and get really good reviews here and on other forums.



Control 227C is the 6.5" version and the Control 328C is the 8" version (the latter is the installer version of the JBL Pro SCS 8, a staple in JBL Atmos installations). They can be used in-wall, in-column, and in-ceiling with the appropriate JBL backbox or you can build your own with MDF.


Here is an example:




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Last edited by Dan Hitchman; 05-16-2019 at 03:08 PM.
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post #30 of 43 Old 05-17-2019, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! I was actually able to win an auction on used 8340a's for $295 after shipping so those should be showing up late next week. The 590s just showed up today so I should be able to get them hooked up this evening to try them out. Excited for it all to come together
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