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post #1 of 45 Old 05-19-2019, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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New build, very large open area, home theater speaker placement questions

Just signed a contract to build my very first home.

I used to have a moderately expensive home theater setup back when I used to sell home theater from 1997-2002 (B&K, Adcom, Energy Veritas, Monster z-series, SONY ES) but now just have a simple 5.1 setup with Denon AVR3808ci (yeah...from 2008..lol..and Energy RC-30/LCR/Matching in-ceiling for the rears in my current home.)

I am going to be starting from scratch and am seeking some guidance as to which "direction" i want my living area set up in order to maximize the home theater.

I will most likely do higher-end floor-standing towers with center channel up front, and timbre-matched in-ceiling speakers in the rear in a 5.1 or possibly a 7.1 setup. (I do not care about ATMOS, etc.) I will do one of the high-end Denon or Marantz AVRs or possibly a pre-amp + amp separates set if I could find a good deal.

My question is related to where I should have the pre-wires run to, or if I can get things installed during the build. I have an appt with the design center this week to pick everything out for my home.

Then gathering room is massive....about 17'x23' and very open as you can see.

I have 2 wall options for setting up the tv/audio prewire. As you can see in the photo either 1. on the East Wall (short) or 2. the South Wall (long).

All of the models seem to have the set up on the East Wall and making it a smaller area between the speakers and the couch. However, I was thinking if I set it all up with Option #2 I might be able to achieve better surround but wouldn't be able to see the TV clearly if I was cooking, etc.

I am most likely doing hardwood floors. And I will NOT have that multi-panel-corner slidiing glass door ($13,000 option, no thank you), so there will be two simple windows on that North Wall of the Gathering Area.

I am not opposed to having either 1 or 2 pair of surrounds in the ceilings.

Also....where should my sub go?

Thoughts appreciated as its been almost 20 years since i have had to give any thought to these kinds of things!

Here are some links to a 3d walk-thorough of the floorplan, although in a different city so you can see the layout and also the standard windows on the back wall:

https://my.matterport.com/show/?m=o7...t&utm_source=4

https://my.matterport.com/show/?m=7w...w&utm_source=4
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post #2 of 45 Old 05-20-2019, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 355F1 View Post
Just signed a contract to build my very first home.

I used to have a moderately expensive home theater setup back when I used to sell home theater from 1997-2002 (B&K, Adcom, Energy Veritas, Monster z-series, SONY ES) but now just have a simple 5.1 setup with Denon AVR3808ci (yeah...from 2008..lol..and Energy RC-30/LCR/Matching in-ceiling for the rears in my current home.)

I am going to be starting from scratch and have seek some guidance as to which "direction" i want my living area set up in order to maximize the home theater.

I will most likely do higher-end floor-standing towers with center channel up front, and timbre-matched in-ceiling speakers in the rear in a 5.1 or possibly a 7.1 setup. (I do not care about ATMOS, etc.) I will do one of the high-end Denon or Marantz AVRs or possibly a pre-amp + amp separates set if I could find a good deal.

My question is related to where I should have the pre-wires run to, or if I can get things installed during the build. I have an appt with the design center this week to pick everything out for my home.

Then gathering room is massive....about 17'x23' and very open as you can see.

I have 2 wall options for setting up the tv/audio prewire. As you can see in the photo either 1. on the East Wall (short) or 2. the South Wall (long).

All of the models seem to have the set up on the East Wall and making it a smaller area between the speakers and the couch. However, I was thinking if I set it all up with Option #2 I might be able to achieve better surround but wouldn't be able to see the TV clearly if I was cooking, etc.

I am most likely doing hardwood floors. And I will NOT have that multi-panel-corner slidiing glass door ($13,000 option, no thank you), so there will be two simple windows on that North Wall of the Gathering Area.

I am not opposed to having either 1 or 2 pair of surrounds in the ceilings.

Also....where should my sub go?

Thoughts appreciated as its been almost 20 years since i have had to give any thought to these kinds of things!

Here are some links to a 3d walk-thorough of the floorplan, although in a different city so you can see the layout and also the standard windows on the back wall:

https://my.matterport.com/show/?m=o7...t&utm_source=4

https://my.matterport.com/show/?m=7w...w&utm_source=4
I have a 9 year old Denon and have zero desire to replace it so no worries using your old receiver for 5.1 or 7.1 though I'd probably do 5.2 with two smaller subs rather than one giant sub.

Putting the TV on the long wall still has you sitting 15 feet from the TV or so which is a good distance and the same as mine with my 60" Plasma and has the benefit of people in the kitchen and people at the island having a great view of the TV but, obviously, either option could work well.

I'd have one 12" sub near one of the speakers, either left or right, and the second sub on the opposite end of the couch either under an end table or acting as the end table.

Mind you even a 12" ported sub is massive in cabinet size, (HSU VTF2 for example is =15w21h22d=.

HSU's sealed ULS 15 MK 2 is an 18" cube by comparison available in an attractive Rosewood finish and has similar output to the ported 12" sub.

For me that would be plenty of bass but most on AVS would adamantly disagree and insist you get at least dual 15" ported subs like HSUs VTF15H MK 5 which is 25" H x 18" W x 28" D.

I'd have a floor plate style electrical outlet where the end table(s) go plus an RCA cord run to that location to allow you to choose which end of the couch to have the sub.

Of course that may be ridiculous when time comes to sell so perhaps you might just have to "settle" for the two subs to be near the wall where the TV goes.

Where are you located in case there is a local speaker maker near you or an excellent well known retailer.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #3 of 45 Old 05-20-2019, 11:10 AM
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Option 1 for me. As you said, it would be better for cooking, cleaning, etc.
You won't have your LCR speakers reflecting off the glass on the North side, you can get a very comfortable surround with 4 in-ceiling speakers (a pair in the kitchen would be nice).
You also have the benefit of being closer to your TV/screen, and you won't necessarily need beefy amps to drive average-sensitivity speakers. Your sub should go where the sub needs to go - google "sub crawl". With that huge open volume, I would suggest 2 subs in order to pressurize the room and provide even bass throughout.
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post #4 of 45 Old 05-20-2019, 12:07 PM
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This should get you started with placement options.

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/su...7-1-setup.html

As to the sub(s), I agree that two would be best. If placed well, they should give you good bass response throughout the area. You might want to run some RCA cables into various positions throughout the room, in order to give you easy connectivity when you find the right placement for each. Terminate with a wall (or floor) jack in each position. Alternatively, you could go "wireless", but that can be problematic, with stories of interference and drop outs often told on this site ...

You'll want to obtain a receiver or processor that handles the two subs separately when room correction is applied, or get a separate bass processor ... like the miniDSP 2x4. Investing in the REW software (free) and a UMIK-1 mic ($) would be beneficial in getting the most from your system investment.

As to room layout I would have the TV face the kitchen, but be sure your seating does not exactly bisect the length of the room. Sitting at the halfway point will induce some ugly room issues in the bass region.

Have you begun the listening session process in order to choose your front 3 speakers or have you already chosen?

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post #5 of 45 Old 05-20-2019, 10:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for you replies, peeps!

I forgot to mention that the house does have 10" ceilings, if that matters.

I didn't really want to do 2 subs (always have only had a single sub but never a huge open floorplan).

The builder charges $600 for an in-floor outlet (for a table lamp, etc.) so I think I should add this just in case and ask if they can run a single coax cable to a sub if need be.

I can also put dual subs near the speakers if I had to. I would choose something that looks great.

I am in Phoenix, AZ, btw.

I haven't started my listening search for speakers.

I saw on here about RSL speakers.....thinking I could make this simple and do their new CG25's as a LCR setup and 1 or 2 sets of their C34E on-ceiling speakers for rears, along with 1 or 2 of their Speedwoofer Subs. This would be an easy risk-free decision but I am concerned the bookshelf setup wouldn't be loud enough for the huge area.
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post #6 of 45 Old 05-20-2019, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 355F1 View Post
Thank you for you replies, peeps!

I forgot to mention that the house does have 10" ceilings, if that matters.

I didn't really want to do 2 subs (always have only had a single sub but never a huge open floorplan).

The builder charges $600 for an in-floor outlet (for a table lamp, etc.) so I think I should add this just in case and ask if they can run a single coax cable to a sub if need be.

I can also put dual subs near the speakers if I had to. I would choose something that looks great.

I am in Phoenix, AZ, btw.

I haven't started my listening search for speakers.

I saw on here about RSL speakers.....thinking I could make this simple and do their new CG25's as a LCR setup and 1 or 2 sets of their C34E on-ceiling speakers for rears, along with 1 or 2 of their Speedwoofer Subs. This would be an easy risk-free decision but I am concerned the bookshelf setup wouldn't be loud enough for the huge area.
ideal dual sub layout: midpoint along parallel walls so that they are across from each other, or alternatively opposite corners (FL, BR). Speedwoofer will not go below 30 Hz in your volume, need at least dual ported 12” subs from Monolith or even a pair of sealed 15” for even bass at 20 Hz. At 4,000 cubic feet you are on the large end of a “medium sized” room transitioning to large. You’d need four 10” ported to get to 20 Hz (Monolith 10” ported goes louder and lower than RSL, but RSL is quicker and more musical above 40 Hz).

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post #7 of 45 Old 05-20-2019, 11:06 PM
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Consider these options:

https://www.aperionaudio.com/blogs/a...-for-your-home

Subwoofer location is the most important aspect of getting good frequency response in your room. There really is no substitute. As to which sub(s) to choose, you'll have to decide what your goals are. A pair of sealed subs from Rythmik (F12/E15) or SVS (SB3000) would get you pretty good bass extension and output in the large space. You could get even more output from ported subs, but then you have the size issue to consider.

If you need the subs to be pretty, look at the options from Salk Sound. They use Rythmik designs and marry them to a wide assortment of wood veneers.

Also, I do not think you will have to worry about getting sufficient volume from the new RSLs, assuming you give them enough power to work with.

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post #8 of 45 Old 05-21-2019, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 355F1 View Post
Thank you for you replies, peeps!

I forgot to mention that the house does have 10" ceilings, if that matters.

I didn't really want to do 2 subs (always have only had a single sub but never a huge open floorplan).

The builder charges $600 for an in-floor outlet (for a table lamp, etc.) so I think I should add this just in case and ask if they can run a single coax cable to a sub if need be.

I can also put dual subs near the speakers if I had to. I would choose something that looks great.

I am in Phoenix, AZ, btw.

I haven't started my listening search for speakers.

I saw on here about RSL speakers.....thinking I could make this simple and do their new CG25's as a LCR setup and 1 or 2 sets of their C34E on-ceiling speakers for rears, along with 1 or 2 of their Speedwoofer Subs. This would be an easy risk-free decision but I am concerned the bookshelf setup wouldn't be loud enough for the huge area.
Three CG25s up front sitting 15 feet away would give you all the sound you would likely need in a home environment; but as you say, risk free to find out.

While the very nice compact Speedwoofers don't dig as low as their 12 and 15 inch subwoofer rivals they do match the bass extension of actual cinemas where subwoofers don't dig much below 25hz and most folks would say that a well set up Cinema House has impressive bass.

Do you ever drive to the LA area?

Excellent speakers and subs available from these folks.

Maybe a two day speaker auditioning excursion with some sight seeing?

ASCEND** NEAR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA

HSU NEAR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA

MONOPRICE NEAR RIVERSIDE CALIFORNIA

RSL* NEAR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA

* free return shipping
**Ascend also carries Rhythmik subwoofers on site

Geoff A. J., California

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This 2013 reviewer had a similar space to fill, and found Polk LSiM HT did the job well.

Quote:
When listening to the LSiM system I felt like I was hearing a well-executed, no compromises, high-end design, not just a system that sounded amazing for its price point. This is the type of speaker system that will grow with you as the quality of your source components progresses. While I can’t say that this system is cheap, if you want a serious dosage of what high-end audio is all about Polk’s LSiM series could be just what the doctor ordered.
https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/...k-lsim-system/

Panasonic TC65CX850U Yamaha RX-V1079 Technics SU-V650 Panasonic DMP-UB900 Sony UBP-X800 Polk Audio SDA-2B
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Your living room dimensions are near ideal. Biggest problem is it is an open space. Harder to get good bass because of that. I would consider putting your TV and front L/C/R speakers on the short wall firing down the long wall. It will allow you to sit at the apex of an equilateral triangle and have room behind you for floor standing speakers. In ceiling speakers are not ideal for rear surround (good for Atmos though). You could have a great 5.2 system. Look at Revel speakers. What's your budget?

If you place your front/L/R about 11' apart, you would sit about 9.5 feet away front the front wall/TV. That would also leave room on the outside of the towers for a pair of subs. Or, you could put one sub in the front corner and one in rear corner, see the link to the Todd Welti multi-sub paper.

I look at it like this:

Front L/R
Center channel
Rear L/R
Subs
Preamp/processor/AVR
Power amps if you use a preamp/processor

Here are some resources:

https://www.routledgetextbooks.com/t...9781138921368/

https://www.google.com/search?client...d&q=welti+subs

Last edited by Rex Anderson; 05-21-2019 at 11:13 AM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8KCRT View Post
ideal dual sub layout: midpoint along parallel walls so that they are across from each other, or alternatively opposite corners (FL, BR). Speedwoofer will not go below 30 Hz in your volume, need at least dual ported 12” subs from Monolith or even a pair of sealed 15” for even bass at 20 Hz. At 4,000 cubic feet you are on the large end of a “medium sized” room transitioning to large. You’d need four 10” ported to get to 20 Hz (Monolith 10” ported goes louder and lower than RSL, but RSL is quicker and more musical above 40 Hz).
I am not putting 4 subs in my home. lol

I will probably try 1 and if I do not like it will add a second. But I will have a second cable setup run for that option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
Consider these options:

Also, I do not think you will have to worry about getting sufficient volume from the new RSLs, assuming you give them enough power to work with.
I will most likely be getting a new Denon AVR-x4400h ($799 now at newegg) or the newer 4500 unless I can find a decent amp-preamp combo for under $1500 that would provide sound worth the upgraded price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Three CG25s up front sitting 15 feet away would give you all the sound you would likely need in a home environment; but as you say, risk free to find out.

While the very nice compact Speedwoofers don't dig as low as their 12 and 15 inch subwoofer rivals they do match the bass extension of actual cinemas where subwoofers don't dig much below 25hz and most folks would say that a well set up Cinema House has impressive bass.

Do you ever drive to the LA area?

Excellent speakers and subs available from these folks.

Maybe a two day speaker auditioning excursion with some sight seeing?

ASCEND** NEAR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA

HSU NEAR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA

MONOPRICE NEAR RIVERSIDE CALIFORNIA

RSL* NEAR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA

* free return shipping
**Ascend also carries Rhythmik subwoofers on site
I stayed in hotels 201 nights last year. I travel all over the world monthly and wouldn't want to drive to LA to listen to speakers. What will happen is that I will probably buy 2 surrounds sets, listen to both, and return 1.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Panson View Post
This 2013 reviewer had a similar space to fill, and found Polk LSiM HT did the job well.
Hmm....I might have to look into these!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
Your living room dimensions are near ideal. Biggest problem is it is an open space. Harder to get good bass because of that. I would consider putting your TV and front L/C/R speakers on the short wall firing down the long wall. It will allow you to sit at the apex of an equilateral triangle and have room behind you for floor standing speakers. In ceiling speakers are not ideal for rear surround (good for Atmos though). You could have a great 5.2 system. Look at Revel speakers. What's your budget?

If you place your front/L/R about 11' apart, you would sit about 9.5 feet away front the front wall/TV. That would also leave room on the outside of the towers for a pair of subs. Or, you could put one sub in the front corner and one in rear corner, see the link to the Todd Welti multi-sub paper.

I look at it like this:

Front L/R
Center channel
Rear L/R
Subs
Preamp/processor/AVR
Power amps if you use a preamp/processor

Here are some resources:

https://www.routledgetextbooks.com/t...9781138921368/

https://www.google.com/search?client...d&q=welti+subs
See....????THIS setup was my initial ideal setup and layout! But since I haven't done any home theater design in almost 20 years I figured I would inquire here!

Most people have posted to put the TV on the long wall facing the kitchen, and if I did this I would do the rear surrounds and side surrounds (is that what they are called?) with in-ceilings.

First Appt withe the builder's design team is tomorrow so I need a base gameplan on speaker wire runs by then!

Last edited by 355F1; 05-21-2019 at 01:24 PM.
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post #12 of 45 Old 05-21-2019, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 355F1 View Post
I am not putting 4 subs in my home. lol

I will probably try 1 and if I do not like it will add a second. But I will have a second cable setup run for that option.



I will most likely be getting a new Denon AVR-x4400h ($799 now at newegg) or the newer 4500 unless I can find a decent amp-preamp combo for under $1500 that would provide sound worth the upgraded price.



I stayed in hotels 201 nights last year. I travel all over the world monthly and wouldn't want to drive to LA to listen to speakers. What will happen is that I will probably buy 2 surrounds sets, listen to both, and return 1.



NOt enough of a deal for me. lol



Hmm....I might have to look into these!



See....????THIS setup was my initial ideal setup and layout! But since I haven't done any home theater design in almost 20 years I figured I would inquire here!

Most people have posted to put the TV on the long wall facing the kitchen, and if I did this I would do the rear surrounds and side surrounds (is that what they are called?) with in-ceilings.

First Appt withe the builder's design team is tomorrow so I need a base gameplan on speaker wire runs by then!
No pressure!


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Would it be better if I used actual bookshelf speakers in the rear corners (NW & SW) as opposed to in ceiling?
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post #14 of 45 Old 05-21-2019, 12:09 PM
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If Atmos has no intrigue for you, then in-ceiling surrounds are a good option. If you think you might have an interest at some point, then having the surrounds at the mid-point of the walls, or lower would be the best solution.

To that end, you could install side surrounds on the side walls, with lots of options that are 4" deep, or even less. You could also go for in-wall speakers and have no footprint. For the rear surrounds, you could build them into the island, at the edge of each side.

You have a few decisions to make .... should be an interesting 24 hours!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 355F1 View Post
Also....where should my sub go?
If you blow across an empty bottle you can get that small chamber to resonate (make that booooohhh sound). Enlarge that chamber to the size of your gathering room and it will still resonate (obviously at different frequencies than the bottle).

When bass waves bounce back & forth across the 16'11" width of your room, they will create resonances (room modes) at 33Hz, 67Hz, 100Hz, etc., resulting in a mess of peaks & nulls across the width of the room (see graph below).



Any number in the graph followed by "Hz" is a problem frequency. Other numbers are distances from left to right. Each problem frequency is colour coded so you can see where their peaks & nulls land across room width.

As you can see from the graph, listeners sitting across your couch will each hear very different bass response. However, placing a pair of subs at the ¼ and ¾ points of room width will cancel the first 3 width modes (33Hz, 67Hz, 100Hz), minimizing their peaks & nulls, resulting in much smoother bass response across the seating area and greater consistency from seat to seat.

This cannot be accomplished with a single subwoofer.


Sanjay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 355F1 View Post
Would it be better if I used actual bookshelf speakers in the rear corners (NW & SW) as opposed to in ceiling?

Bookshelf speakers beat in ceiling IMO. Towers are better yet. Towers take up the same floor space as a monitor on a stand. Bookshelf speakers require stands ($) and can't keep up with towers.
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post #17 of 45 Old 05-21-2019, 12:40 PM
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I stayed in hotels 201 nights last year. I travel all over the world monthly and wouldn't want to drive to LA to listen to speakers. What will happen is that I will probably buy 2 surrounds sets, listen to both, and return 1.
My condolences on the hotel stays; my Dad and older brother were road/air warriors too.

Here's a list of where the manufacturers are in case you are bored at a hotel before your home is completed.

ACCESSORIES 4 LESS*** NEAR ORLANDO FLORIDA
APERION* NEAR PORTLAND OREGON
ASCEND** NEAR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA
CHANE TAMPA FLORIDA
CRUTCHFIELD*** CHARLOTTESVILLE VIRGINIA
DEEP SEA SOUND SUBS NEAR KNOXVILLE TENNESSEE
DIYSOUND GROUP CINCINNATI OHIO
EMOTIVA NEAR NASHVILLE TENNESSEE
HI FI HEAVEN*** GREEN BAY WISONSIN
HSU NEAR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA
HTD* NEAR DALLAS TEXAS
JTR NEAR MILWAUKEE WISCONSIN
MONOPRICE NEAR RIVERSIDE CALIFORNIA
MUSIC DIRECT*** CHICAGO ILLINOIS
NHT NEAR SAN FRANCISCO CALIFORNIA
OHM BROOKLYN NEW YORK
PSA NEAR YOUNGSTOWN OHIO
RBH NEAR SALT LAKE CITY UTAH
RHYTHMIK SUBS NEAR AUSTIN TEXAS
RSL* NEAR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA
SALK AUDIO PONTIAC MICHIGAN
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post #18 of 45 Old 05-21-2019, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Bookshelf speakers beat in ceiling IMO. Towers are better yet. Towers take up the same floor space as a monitor on a stand. Bookshelf speakers require stands ($) and can't keep up with towers.
I think doing 2 sets of in-ceilings for surrounds will be the easiest and most aesthetically pleasing. I think 2 bookshelf speakers on the NW & SW corners of the room wouldn’t look that great.

I was thinking the rear surrounds would be back closer to the kitchen and the side surrounds close to the living area.

I’m trying not to go overboard here. Money isn’t really the issue. I want simple and timbre-matched but also want to make sure I don’t regret my purchase if I don’t go expensive.

No, I don’t really have a budget but I think I could be happy with a speaker setup for $2k up front (LCR) and whatever it costs for in ceilings and subs.
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Would it be better if I used actual bookshelf speakers in the rear corners (NW & SW) as opposed to in ceiling?
With subwoofers handling the low frequencies, I wouldn't get large floorstanding speakers and instead would simply get 5 (or 7) of the same bookshelf speaker for consistent sound all the way around. For a 5-speaker layout (with the east wall being the front wall), the surrounds can be mounted a foot or so above seated ear height on the side walls, just before the side walls end. BTW, is the strip of wall between the windows on the north wall wide enough to mount a bookshelf speaker?

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Originally Posted by 355F1 View Post
I think doing 2 sets of in-ceilings for surrounds will be the easiest and most aesthetically pleasing. I think 2 bookshelf speakers on the NW & SW corners of the room wouldn’t look that great.

I was thinking the rear surrounds would be back closer to the kitchen and the side surrounds close to the living area.

I’m trying not to go overboard here. Money isn’t really the issue. I want simple and timbre-matched but also want to make sure I don’t regret my purchase if I don’t go expensive.

No, I don’t really have a budget but I think I could be happy with a speaker setup for $2k up front (LCR) and whatever it costs for in ceilings and subs.
In the latest posts in the RSL thread one guy actually preferred the RSLs overall to some PSAs which while very dynamic for movies left something wanting, (for him), for music so he ended up with an all RSL setup in a large room and is quite happy with the dynamics, (though obviously not on par with the much larger PSA).

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post #21 of 45 Old 05-21-2019, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
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With subwoofers handling the low frequencies, I wouldn't get large floorstanding speakers and instead would simply get 5 (or 7) of the same bookshelf speaker for consistent sound all the way around. For a 5-speaker layout (with the east wall being the front wall), the surrounds can be mounted a foot or so above seated ear height on the side walls, just before the side walls end. BTW, is the strip of wall between the windows on the north wall wide enough to mount a bookshelf speaker?
Just not to sure I want 2 sets of bookshelf speakers as surrounds visually-speaking.

I do not know the measurements on the North wall...I will get all of that tomorrow!


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In the latest posts in the RSL thread one guy actually preferred the RSLs overall to some PSAs which while very dynamic for movies left something wanting, (for him), for music so he ended up with an all RSL setup in a large room and is quite happy with the dynamics, (though obviously not on par with the much larger PSA).
Great info.....although I do not care about physical size of the front 3 speakers.
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post #22 of 45 Old 05-21-2019, 01:37 PM
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Just not to sure I want 2 sets of bookshelf speakers as surrounds visually-speaking.
Up to you. The only reason I replied is because you asked: "Would it be better if I used actual bookshelf speakers...?"

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post #23 of 45 Old 05-21-2019, 01:51 PM
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Be careful you do not go too far back for the rear surrounds (or too wide for the side surrounds). Downward-firing speakers do have coverage limitations in the horizontal plane ... you want your seating to stay within the best frequency response performance of the speaker (typically 30 degrees off-axis in either direction). If you go with the RSL solution, they have a built-in 15 degree angle, so the seating can be as far as 45 degrees off-axis). Some speakers have greater degrees of angle built-in, like Triad and Def Tech, so you could go with a greater distance offset between the speaker and the seating. It's nice you have 10 foot ceilings, as that gives you more leeway over a typical 8 foot ceiling height.

If your intent (to have the speakers so far back) is to cover the Kitchen area with music, you could install another set of in-ceiling speakers for the kitchen itself, and run them off of a multi-zone capable receiver / separate 2 channel amp, or go with a Sonos-like solution and use portable wireless speaker(s).

One other note ... you would not have to have bookshelf-type speakers for the side surrounds. There are lots of thin speaker options out there. KEF T101, Golden Ear Supersat, Revel Concerta, Def Tech Mythos 50 /60 ... to name just a few. Again, you could also go in-wall, for a hidden solution.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

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If you do in ceiling speakers you need to be concerned about off axis response as RayGuy mentions. Speakers like Revel C763L allow you to aim the tweeters at the main listening position so you get on axis response.https://revelspeakers.com/productdet...uct/c763l.html


For about $2K for front L/C/R, you could get a pair of Revel Concerta2 series F36 and a C205 center channel. All Revel speakers are timbre matched.

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If you do in ceiling speakers you need to be concerned about off axis response as RayGuy mentions. Speakers like Revel C763L allow you to aim the tweeters at the main listening position so you get on axis response.


https://revelspeakers.com/productdet...uct/c763l.html
Rex, do you happen to know the offset angle of those speakers? I was unable to see it in the specs.

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Rex, do you happen to know the offset angle of those speakers? I was unable to see it in the specs.

Sorry, I have never seen the spec. I do know they are used by many pro audio for video sound mixers.
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post #27 of 45 Old 05-21-2019, 02:13 PM
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Sorry, I have never seen the spec. I do know they are used by many pro audio for video sound mixers.
It's annoying that so many manufacturers treat this like a trade secret. I just looked at the Golden Ear 7000 and they did not specify the angle either!

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Great info.....although I do not care about physical size of the front 3 speakers.
Aperion Audio is very well respected and they offer free returns albeit only on full msrp items, not sale priced items.

https://www.aperionaudio.com/collections/speakers

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post #29 of 45 Old 05-21-2019, 03:46 PM
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It's annoying that so many manufacturers treat this like a trade secret. I just looked at the Golden Ear 7000 and they did not specify the angle either!
I think the baffle angle is 30 degrees.

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post #30 of 45 Old 05-21-2019, 04:01 PM
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I think the baffle angle is 30 degrees.
For the Revel or the GE?

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