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post #1 of 22 Old 05-20-2019, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Tower Speaker and Sub Selection Help

I recently upgraded my entire setup except the speakers as I felt as if I could more easily do that overtime than upgrading the video components and dealing with the wiring etc..

I have a large family room, approximately 25'X25' with 13 ft ceilings. With the upgrade I had 4 Origin Acoustics D67 ceiling speakers for atmos put in- I've been impressed with them so far.

My speakers I'm looking to replace are Polk Audio TSI series, 500 for the front's, 300 for the rears, and CS20 for the center, and a matching 12" Polk Sub. I'm looking to replace the speakers/sub with something a level or two up. I find the Polks to be "ok" they fill the room well, but get a bit sloppy (for lack of a better term) and I'd like something crisper. The space is large enough where I can do towers for both the front's and the rears, so I'd prefer to do that as I prefer the look of towers and they seem to do a better job filling the room.

Also, in order to get wife approval, they'll need to be black (ideally piano, but that's not needed)

Budget wise, I'm looking to try and stay in the 5-6k range for the 5.1, that said, if I'm just below a certain combo a bit more than that I'd welcome the input as I can just space out the purchase over time.

Here is the rest of the equipment:

AVR: Denon AVR-X6500H
TV: Sony XBR-75X950G
Speakers: Polk TSI300 (rears), CS20 (center), TSI500 (Front). 4x ORIGIN ACOUSTICS D67 (ceiling), Matching Polk 14" sub

Xbox one X, Apple TV 4k, Roku Ultra, Tivo


Pictures of the room attached, it's a step down family room with one side open to the kitchen.
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post #2 of 22 Old 05-20-2019, 05:36 PM
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100% Revel Concerta2 series.

Piano black, crisp as they get.

I’d also check out the Klipsch RP series in gloss black.

These are also very crisp.

Might I ask why the towers if you are getting a subwoofer?

Generally you can save a bit by going bookshelves or putting that money towards a better subwoofer which is audible, while towers v bookshelves that are crossed at 80hz are generally not.
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #3 of 22 Old 05-20-2019, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
100% Revel Concerta2 series.
Might I ask why the towers if you are getting a subwoofer?

Thanks for the quick suggestions/reply



Both my wife and I prefer the look of the tower speakers, especially in the front of the room (that wall is pretty big and we use the towers to fill up the space). If same budget was in mind, what bookshelf/sub combo would you recommend? I can take a look at the different stands to see if that fills the space the same way.
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post #4 of 22 Old 05-20-2019, 06:20 PM
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Tower Speaker and Sub Selection Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrwabam View Post
Thanks for the quick suggestions/reply



Both my wife and I prefer the look of the tower speakers, especially in the front of the room (that wall is pretty big and we use the towers to fill up the space). If same budget was in mind, what bookshelf/sub combo would you recommend? I can take a look at the different stands to see if that fills the space the same way.

Stands usually comes to bit you back in the butt, so it’s not a bad idea to go with towers instead, and if it’s WAF, then by all means.

I don’t know what sub you’ll end up with (there are lots of choices out there!)

But here’s my suggestion for speakers:

Revel F36’s - $2000/pr

Revel C25 - $750

Revel M16’s - $900/pr

Total: $3650 (You can definitely get a dealer to get you this combo for under $3000 btw, leaving plenty for sub(s) and/or Atmos or more surrounds.)

Or...

Revel F206’s - $3500

Revel C205 - $1000

Revel M105’s - $1500

Total: $5000 (And like I said before, under $4000 is definitely possible, and leaves $1000 for sub(s) of your choosing etc.)

These are probably the nicest looking speakers in this price bracket that match your requirements.
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)

Last edited by Russdawg1; 05-22-2019 at 08:48 AM.
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post #5 of 22 Old 05-20-2019, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrwabam View Post
Thanks for the quick suggestions/reply



Both my wife and I prefer the look of the tower speakers, especially in the front of the room (that wall is pretty big and we use the towers to fill up the space). If same budget was in mind, what bookshelf/sub combo would you recommend? I can take a look at the different stands to see if that fills the space the same way.
SVS Prime Pinnacle towers, prime or Ultra center and a pair of Prime tower for the surrounds, but then you'll still need a good pair of subs.

Klipsch RP speakers are currently on sale. A pair of RP8000s is $960 from Crutchfield, may be less elsehwere. Pair of RP5000s for surrounds for $600 and one of the centers like the RP600 for $500.

For subs a pair of 15" subs from the likes of HSU, PSA, Rythmik, Monoprice Monolith, or SVS 4000 or 3000 series. If you need gloss black for the subs it will really limit your choices.

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Onkyo RZ820
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post #6 of 22 Old 05-20-2019, 06:43 PM
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The SVS SB/PB-3000's are available in piano gloss black and very nice subs. Start with one then add another if needed.

https://www.svsound.com/pages/3000-series

Last edited by cocrh; 05-20-2019 at 07:01 PM.
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post #7 of 22 Old 05-20-2019, 06:53 PM
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I would also recommend the Revel speakers
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post #8 of 22 Old 05-21-2019, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrwabam View Post
Thanks for the quick suggestions/reply



Both my wife and I prefer the look of the tower speakers, especially in the front of the room (that wall is pretty big and we use the towers to fill up the space). If same budget was in mind, what bookshelf/sub combo would you recommend? I can take a look at the different stands to see if that fills the space the same way.
Nice job of wiring!

Towers are far better with cats about; ask me how I found out!

Where are you located in case there is a local speaker maker near you or an excellent well known retailer?

Geoff A. J., California
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post #9 of 22 Old 05-21-2019, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Nice job of wiring!

Towers are far better with cats about; ask me how I found out!

Where are you located in case there is a local speaker maker near you or an excellent well known retailer?

I wish I could take credit for the wiring. It was done by TailorMadeAv (They did a great job).



I'm located in boston, and would love to hear the cat story as we have 3 and they are beasts!
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post #10 of 22 Old 05-21-2019, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
SVS Prime Pinnacle towers, prime or Ultra center and a pair of Prime tower for the surrounds, but then you'll still need a good pair of subs.

Klipsch RP speakers are currently on sale. A pair of RP8000s is $960 from Crutchfield, may be less elsehwere. Pair of RP5000s for surrounds for $600 and one of the centers like the RP600 for $500.

For subs a pair of 15" subs from the likes of HSU, PSA, Rythmik, Monoprice Monolith, or SVS 4000 or 3000 series. If you need gloss black for the subs it will really limit your choices.

Thanks for the suggestions, the installers suggested the Klipsh RP as well. I'll check them out. Sub doesn't need to be gloss black, it'll be out of the way a bit.
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post #11 of 22 Old 05-21-2019, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrwabam View Post
I wish I could take credit for the wiring. It was done by TailorMadeAv (They did a great job).



I'm located in boston, and would love to hear the cat story as we have 3 and they are beasts!
My wiring is full of dust bunnies!

Sadly, Boston, which used to have many speaker makers in the area is pretty much bereft now that Boston Acoustics has gone belly up and so, it seems from google, have the hi fi stores featuring reasonably priced products.

I had B&W CM1 Concept 90s on stands in a full B&W 5 speaker setup and as there is a window behind the TV the cats used them as launching pads which ended up toppling the speaker+stand more than once into the wall putting large dents in the wall but with no damage to the speaker itself.

Replace them with a front three of Ushers with towers and no problems since. My daughter has the B&Ws.

So if your cats are athletic towers might be the safer choice!

The Klipsch RP are well worth a listen.

Subs. Note RSL and SVS have free return shipping on subs if not happy.

PORTED SUBWOOFERS $600 AND BELOW, DELIVERED

NOTE:
*THE LARGER PORTED SUBS DELIVER AT LEAST 40% MORE SOUND PRESSURE LEVEL
THAN THE SAME BRAND'S SEALED VERSION WITH SAME SIZE WOOFER AND AMP
*IF LOOKING AT LARGER/MORE EXPENSIVE SUBWOOFERS ADD PSA TO THE LIST OF BRANDS
*IF YOU ARE NOT AN ACTION MOVIE FAN A SUBWOOFER WITH 22-30HZ EXTENSION WOULD BE FINE
*FOR MUSIC A 30HZ SUB IS A FINE CHOICE
*BEFORE BUYING MAKE A CARDBOARD CUTOUT OF THE SIZE OF THE SUB TO MAKE SURE IT IS NOT TOO LARGE FOR YOU
Specs are from the manufacturer unless noted otherwise.
Warranty
for AMP
1 year 150watts =12w7h24d= 25 lbs 8" [23hz] $219 EARTHQUAKE LOW PROFILE CP8 (Amazon price)

3 years 120watts =13w15h16d= 29 lbs 10" [29hz] $250 MARTIN LOGAN DYNAMO 500, limited time offer

2 years 350watts =15w16h17d= 40 lbs 10" [30hz] $399 RSL SPEEDWOOFER 10S, (extension from Sound & Vision review)

2 years 250watts =15w19h17d= 42 lbs 10" [25hz] $455 HSU VTF 1 MK3 (extension from Audioholics review)

5 years 300watts =15w19h20d= 46 lbs 10" [18hz] $499 SVS PB1000, (extension from Sound & Vision Review)

5 years 500watts =15w19h20d= 72 lbs 10" [20hz] $500 MONOPRICE MONOLITH THX 10"

3 years 300watts =16w22h21d= 69 lbs* 12" [19hz] $569 RHYTHMIK LV12F

2 years 350watts =15w21h22d= 62 lbs 12" [18hz] $607 HSU VTF2 MK5, (extension from Audioholics review)
* = shipping weight

SEALED SUBWOOFERS $650 AND BELOW, DELIVERED

3 years 300watts =12w13h13d= 27 lbs 10" [24hz] $399 MARTIN LOGAN DYNAMO 700W, limited time offer Amazon.
NOTE: WIRELESS TRANSMITTER INCLUDED

5 years 300watts =13w14h16d= 27 lbs 12" [23hz] $499 SVS SB1000, (extension from Sound & Vision)

5 years 500watts =13w16h21d= 50 lbs 10" [20hz] $500 MONOPRICE MONOLITH MTS10 THX

3 years 300watts =14w14h16d= 58 lbs* 12" [18hz] $539 RHYTHMIK L12

5 years 500watts =14w15h17d= 35 lbs 12" [19hz] $649 SVS SB2000 outlet, (extension from Sound & Vision)
* = shipping weight

Geoff A. J., California
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post #12 of 22 Old 05-21-2019, 06:36 PM
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I recently bought a set of Paradigm Prestige 85F, 55C, and 15B - in piano black - from a dealer here in Ottawa for 25% off MSRP. You might be able to get a deal similar to that in Boston.
If you can stomach it (lol) take a trip to Montreal where there are a few actual HiFi/AV shops still standing.
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post #13 of 22 Old 05-21-2019, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrwabam View Post
I recently upgraded my entire setup except the speakers as I felt as if I could more easily do that overtime than upgrading the video components and dealing with the wiring etc..

I have a large family room, approximately 25'X25' with 13 ft ceilings. With the upgrade I had 4 Origin Acoustics D67 ceiling speakers for atmos put in- I've been impressed with them so far.

My speakers I'm looking to replace are Polk Audio TSI series, 500 for the front's, 300 for the rears, and CS20 for the center, and a matching 12" Polk Sub. I'm looking to replace the speakers/sub with something a level or two up. I find the Polks to be "ok" they fill the room well, but get a bit sloppy (for lack of a better term) and I'd like something crisper. The space is large enough where I can do towers for both the front's and the rears, so I'd prefer to do that as I prefer the look of towers and they seem to do a better job filling the room.

Also, in order to get wife approval, they'll need to be black (ideally piano, but that's not needed)

Budget wise, I'm looking to try and stay in the 5-6k range for the 5.1, that said, if I'm just below a certain combo a bit more than that I'd welcome the input as I can just space out the purchase over time.

Here is the rest of the equipment:

AVR: Denon AVR-X6500H
TV: Sony XBR-75X950G
Speakers: Polk TSI300 (rears), CS20 (center), TSI500 (Front). 4x ORIGIN ACOUSTICS D67 (ceiling), Matching Polk 14" sub

Xbox one X, Apple TV 4k, Roku Ultra, Tivo


Pictures of the room attached, it's a step down family room with one side open to the kitchen.

What is the primary purpose of the system, may I ask? Music and movies, just movies, mostly music? Do you like playing the system loudly or at mostly average levels?



Are pure aesthetics important or is sonic performance job No. 1?

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!
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post #14 of 22 Old 05-22-2019, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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What is the primary purpose of the system, may I ask? Music and movies, just movies, mostly music? Do you like playing the system loudly or at mostly average levels?

Are pure aesthetics important or is sonic performance job No. 1?
S


75% movies with 25% split between gaming and music.



We watch movies at above average but not insanely crazy (next door neighbors 200ft away can hear it levels). When watching movies someone on the third floor would be able to hear it though.


Performance is most important, but needs to receive wife approval so aesthetics can't be ignored. For example, I showed her the Martin Logan ESPs and she was like nope, it's ugly. While I personally disagree with that assessment, those will be removed from the list of consideration. Any speakers that comes in black that isn't an odd shape or something else that a layperson would consider very non-standard for a tower (80 inches tall, 3 feet wide, etc..) will be just fine.


Polks are 40 inches or so in height and 8 inches wide, going to 50 and 10, no big deal. going to 80 and 30-->too big.


Not sure if I'm answering the question, just trying to show performance is number one consideration but aesthetics are an important part of the selection.
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post #15 of 22 Old 05-22-2019, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrwabam View Post
S


75% movies with 25% split between gaming and music.



We watch movies at above average but not insanely crazy (next door neighbors 200ft away can hear it levels). When watching movies someone on the third floor would be able to hear it though.


Performance is most important, but needs to receive wife approval so aesthetics can't be ignored. For example, I showed her the Martin Logan ESPs and she was like nope, it's ugly. While I personally disagree with that assessment, those will be removed from the list of consideration. Any speakers that comes in black that isn't an odd shape or something else that a layperson would consider very non-standard for a tower (80 inches tall, 3 feet wide, etc..) will be just fine.


Polks are 40 inches or so in height and 8 inches wide, going to 50 and 10, no big deal. going to 80 and 30-->too big.


Not sure if I'm answering the question, just trying to show performance is number one consideration but aesthetics are an important part of the selection.

I would buy a little at a time... and go with these beauties... get the RAAL ribbon tweeter upgrades as sublime movie and music magic will be headed your way. They're not "crisp" per se, as that can actually get fatiguing over a long listening session, but accurate. Faaaaaaaaaar more accurate and detailed than your Polk's. This is what you're looking for IMHO - Ascend Acoustics' Sierra Tower. Very, very well regarded. Various finishes to choose from.



http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages...s/SRT/srt.html


This is the Horizon center:



http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages...n/horizon.html


It's a little taller than standard, but easily compensated for. You actually want a big center speaker as this does most of the heavy lifting in a movie soundtrack.


Ascend Acoustics speakers, like a lot of quality internet direct choices, are much better built than many big box store speakers, especially ones like Klipsch or Polk that rely heavily on cheap overseas parts and less than stellar cabinets.



Made in the U.S.A.

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!

Last edited by Dan Hitchman; 05-22-2019 at 08:11 AM.
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post #16 of 22 Old 05-22-2019, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
Stands usually comes to bit you back in the butt, so it’s not a bad idea to go with towers instead, and if it’s WAF, then by all means.

I don’t know what sub you’ll end up with (there are lots of choices out there!)

But here’s my suggestion for speakers:

Revel F36’s - $2000/pr

Revel C25 - $750

Revel M16’s - $900/pr

Total: $3650 (You can definitely get a dealer to get you this combo for under $3000 btw, leaving plenty for sub(s) and/or Atmos or more surrounds.)

Or...

Revel M106’s - $3500

Revel C205 - $1000

Revel M105’s - $1500

Total: $5000 (And like I said before, under $4000 is definitely possible, and leaves $1000 for sub(s) of your choosing etc.)

These are probably the nicest looking speakers in this price bracket that match your requirements.
I think you meant F206 for that price
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post #17 of 22 Old 05-22-2019, 08:36 AM
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The previous Gen Kef R series are on close-out so may be worth an audition if you have a dealer close by. If you like what you hear you can get them from A4L at a steep discount.
https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ck-each/1.html

The above mentioned Paradigm Prestige and Revel would also be good options.

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Quote:
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I think you meant F206 for that price

I did! Thank you.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #19 of 22 Old 05-22-2019, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrwabam View Post
Performance is most important, but needs to receive wife approval so aesthetics can't be ignored.
+1 to suggestions of anything Revel, and the Ascends.

+1 to towers instead of bookshelves... best to have bass filling your entire space vs. just coming from one big box that might suffer from room nulls etc. That being said, if you do have a subwoofer covering the < 40 Hz frequencies, I don't see the point of getting bigger towers vs. a brand's smaller offerings. (i.e., might as well get the Revel F35s instead of the F36s.)

If you want precision, you'd probably want a servo-controlled subwoofer, which I think basically means Rythmik. For maximum precision you'd want a sealed model but that won't be as loud or go as deep as a similarly-priced ported model.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com
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I'll throw the Klipsch RF-7 III floorstanders and RC-64 III center into the mix. They are large speakers and sound it...effortless dynamics when the volume is pushed.

This combo can be purchased for around $3200, leaving budget for a couple nice 15" subs.

You could keep the Polks in the surround positions and upgrade later if you have the desire.

5.1 and 2.0 ch: Outlaw 975/Emotiva DC-1/Rotel RB-1582 MKII/Rotel RB-1552/Audiosource Amp 3/Polk LS90, CS400i, FX500i/Outlaw X-12, LFM-1/JVD DLA-HD250/Da-Lite 100" HCCV/Sony ES BDP/Sonos Connect. DC-1/RB-1582 MKII/Sonos Connect also feed Polk 7C in garage and Dayton IO655 on patio. 2.1 ch: Denon AVR-2807/Klipsch Forte I or NHT SB2/JBL SUB 550P x 2. 2.0 ch: Rotel RX-1052/Emotiva DC-1/Klipsch RF-7 III/Sony ES BDP/LG 65" LED. 2.0 ch: Klipsch Powergate/NHT SB3. Kitchen: Sonos Play5.
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post #21 of 22 Old 05-26-2019, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
I would buy a little at a time... and go with these beauties... get the RAAL ribbon tweeter upgrades as sublime movie and music magic will be headed your way. They're not "crisp" per se, as that can actually get fatiguing over a long listening session, but accurate. Faaaaaaaaaar more accurate and detailed than your Polk's. This is what you're looking for IMHO - Ascend Acoustics' Sierra Tower. Very, very well regarded. Various finishes to choose from.



http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages...s/SRT/srt.html


This is the Horizon center:



http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages...n/horizon.html


It's a little taller than standard, but easily compensated for. You actually want a big center speaker as this does most of the heavy lifting in a movie soundtrack.


Ascend Acoustics speakers, like a lot of quality internet direct choices, are much better built than many big box store speakers, especially ones like Klipsch or Polk that rely heavily on cheap overseas parts and less than stellar cabinets.



Made in the U.S.A.
I can't speak to cheaper Klipsch or Polk speakers, but my Klipsch RP are VERY well built, and the 15 year old Polks they replaced were also very well built.
No argument with anything else you said, but I just disagree that Klipsch RP aren't well built. The Polks I have, tbh, are too old to be relevant to the discussion. Ascend maybe even better, I don't know.

I do like the fact that speakers and subwoofers are some of the few things that you can still get made/assembled in America at good quality and reasonable prices. If I knew then what I know now, I might have chosen differently. Not because I dislike my RP, but for only slightly more, I could have gotten made in America. My Rythmiks are assembled in America of Chinese, American, Malaysian or European parts.

Denon AVR-X4300H (2nd try), Emotiva XPA-3 Gen3, A-5175
Klipsch RP-280f LR & SR, RP-450c, RP-260f SB, pending Velodyne Deco Atmos
Rythmik F18 x 2
OPPO UDP-203, HTPC, TiVo Roamio, Adequate Samsung 4k
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post #22 of 22 Old 05-27-2019, 01:23 PM
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Ascend Sierra Towers (w/o RAAL upgrade)
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