Speaker cable - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 83Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 126 Old 05-25-2019, 01:39 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Mashie Saldana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 2,058
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1129 Post(s)
Liked: 948
I used BJC 10awg in my previous room. Now I use some 14awg cabling from the local hardware store instead. Works perfectly and way easier to route, especially inside walls.

Just terminate the ends to taste, I use Nakamachi banana plugs as they look really nice and can be found cheap on eBay.

Tower Cinema - 9.1.6 in a 12'x12' room
Input : Nvidia Shield TV, Panasonic DMP-UB400
Magic : Marantz SR7010, Marantz SR6010, 2x NAD T743
Output : Panasonic TX65EZ952B, SVS PB13 Ultra, Monitor Audio GSLCR 2xGS20 2xGS10 4xGSFX 6xBX1
Mashie Saldana is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 126 Old 05-25-2019, 04:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
KenM10759's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Central MA USA
Posts: 5,346
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3210 Post(s)
Liked: 1744
Quote:
Originally Posted by aats View Post
It's too vague description and is not true.
OK then, here's just about everything one needs to know about speaker wire and the voodoo behind it.

http://roger-russell.com/wire.htm

I like very secure connections, and I like no chance of stray strands mucking things up, especially where space between terminals is so tight on the back of a receiver, integrated amp, or AVR. I prefer locking banana plugs from Blue Jeans Cable or GLS. I've tried high-quality spade connectors and all of them seem to loosen up over time.

KEF R500, R200C, R100, R50, SVS SB2000 sub, NAD T758v3 AVR, Pro-Ject RPM1 TT w/ Ortofon 2M Red, Bluesound Vault2, LG UP875 4K BlueRay, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer. Desktop: NAD M10, KEF LS50, KEF Kube 10b. Guest room: Hafler 200 L-R, KEF reference Model 100 center, KEF iQ10 surrounds, M&K V-90 sub.
KenM10759 is online now  
post #33 of 126 Old 05-25-2019, 07:06 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 2,418
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1402 Post(s)
Liked: 974
Quote:
Originally Posted by aats View Post
It's too vague description and is not true.

How so?

A wire passes current through it. If the wire can not pass the current through it, it is a bad wire and should not be used. If it can, then it should be used. Super expensive wires costing $100, $1000, $10000, do not pass any more current than that of a cheap roll of 12 gauge OFC from Mediabridge or Monoprice. If they do, it’s so marginally small that it can barely be measured, much less be even heard.

Capacitance and Inductance in a normal wire have no effect on listening despite what audiophiles and snake oil speaker cable manufacturers may say.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
Russdawg1 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 126 Old 05-25-2019, 07:10 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Russia
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
How so?

A wire passes current through it. If the wire can not pass the current through it, it is a bad wire and should not be used. If it can, then it should be used. Super expensive wires costing $100, $1000, $10000, do not pass any more current than that of a cheap roll of 12 gauge OFC from Mediabridge or Monoprice. If they do, it’s so marginally small that it can barely be measured, much less be even heard.

Capacitance and Inductance in a normal wire have no effect on listening despite what audiophiles and snake oil speaker cable manufacturers may say.
Well, connect a 4 Ohm resistor that can pass "enough current" in series to your cable and see for yourself. Actually there are quite garbage cheap cables that have significant more resistance than they should judging by their stated gauge. I encountered this myself, when cables measured not as expected at all.


That is why I recommend using local hardware (electrical appliance) store or canare - local hardware store will have more or less stated number because these cables are regulated (it is life-threatening to have house wiring that has wrong electrical parameters, so there are some regulations), and canare I just like how they flex, they don't smell and have a good matte black color and nice to work with their insulation in terms of soldering, etc.




source - https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...ot-12-gauge.3/

A little bit extreme example, (you may try lower resistance) but with long cable runs that can easily "pass enough current" can have quite high resistance. Especially if it is "12 AWG" instead of 12 AWG. And I never said that you need to buy expensive cables, quite the contrary.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
OK then, here's just about everything one needs to know about speaker wire and the voodoo behind it.

http://roger-russell.com/wire.htm

I like very secure connections, and I like no chance of stray strands mucking things up, especially where space between terminals is so tight on the back of a receiver, integrated amp, or AVR. I prefer locking banana plugs from Blue Jeans Cable or GLS. I've tried high-quality spade connectors and all of them seem to loosen up over time.

The real way to go is speakon or terminal connectors as in electrical appliances. Unfortunately, manufacturers still do these terrible terminals for banana plugs because they look pretty I guess.

Last edited by aats; 05-25-2019 at 07:27 AM.
aats is online now  
post #35 of 126 Old 05-25-2019, 09:45 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Kini62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 7,897
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2657 Post(s)
Liked: 2435
Quote:
Originally Posted by aats View Post
It's too vague description and is not true.

But it is. The laws of physics explains why.

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Onkyo RZ820
Roku Ultra, Apple TV, Sharp 70" Quattron
Kini62 is offline  
post #36 of 126 Old 05-25-2019, 10:13 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Russia
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
But it is. The laws of physics explains why.
So what model of amplifier-wire-speaker interaction are you using to explain it with laws of physics?
aats is online now  
post #37 of 126 Old 05-25-2019, 10:16 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Kini62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 7,897
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2657 Post(s)
Liked: 2435
Quote:
Originally Posted by aats View Post
So what model of amplifier-wire-speaker interaction are you using to explain it with laws of physics?

No model(s) needed. Electricity doesn't care where it comes from or where it's going as long as it can get there unimpeded. It seems that the "audiophiles" of the world think that actual sound goes through cables or some other such nonsense. The only thing traveling through the cables is electricity.

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Onkyo RZ820
Roku Ultra, Apple TV, Sharp 70" Quattron
Kini62 is offline  
post #38 of 126 Old 05-25-2019, 10:33 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Russia
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
No model(s) needed. Electricity doesn't care where it comes from or where it's going as long as it can get there unimpeded. It seems that the "audiophiles" of the world think that actual sound goes through cables or some other such nonsense. The only thing traveling through the cables is electricity.
If there is no model, there is no physics, just your belief, no better than "audiophiles" beliefs that you despise.


Here is a fun physics experiment for you:
Disconnect your speaker from amplifier.
Gently tap on the cone, and listen to a sound.
Now, short speaker terminals with really short wire (your speaker wire will do if it is short and low AWG) and tap cone again, listen to a sound.
Some speakers are better than the others for this experiment but still some food for thought.

Last edited by aats; 05-25-2019 at 10:50 AM.
aats is online now  
post #39 of 126 Old 05-25-2019, 10:49 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 64
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by modenacart View Post
If you use a higher gauge than recommend you risk distortion. It is your system so you can choose the higher gauge wire.

This is also not true - as if a precisely sized tube is needed to constrain electron flow, make the wire too large and electrons suddenly get confused. Minimum wire size is important only to keep DC resistance to an acceptable amount. Using a larger gauge has no benefit and also no drawbacks.
tooslow2 is online now  
post #40 of 126 Old 05-25-2019, 11:25 AM
Senior Member
 
drober30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: MI
Posts: 241
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
Nope. Any wire that can pass the current needed over the required distance will result in the exact same speaker performance. There is no magic wire.
Are you sure?

Someone needs to tell Best Buy!

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/audioqu...?skuId=6288392

I bet this cable makes my blue-ray player look great!

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/audioqu...?skuId=2383319

All kidding aside, I do believe there is a quality factor that can be considered but only to a reasonable degree. I have used banana plugs for twenty+ years and have had zero issues with shorts or them breaking. Dose not mean the possibilities don't exist, I just think it would be rare.

Update: If you hurry, you can get 24 month financing on the HDMI cable!
drober30 is offline  
post #41 of 126 Old 05-25-2019, 11:53 AM
Advanced Member
 
modenacart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 515
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Liked: 175
Speaker cable

Quote:
Originally Posted by tooslow2 View Post
This is also not true - as if a precisely sized tube is needed to constrain electron flow, make the wire too large and electrons suddenly get confused. Minimum wire size is important only to keep DC resistance to an acceptable amount. Using a larger gauge has no benefit and also no drawbacks.


What? Higher gauge means thinner wire and will most definitely have more voltage drop. Any lower gauge than the minimum gauge necessary will keep the voltage drop low enough to keep the integrity of the signal.


-To be an audiophile you must abandon all research and science.
scionracing and Kini62 like this.

Last edited by modenacart; 05-25-2019 at 12:04 PM.
modenacart is offline  
post #42 of 126 Old 05-25-2019, 12:00 PM
Advanced Member
 
modenacart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 515
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Liked: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by aats View Post
Well, connect a 4 Ohm resistor that can pass "enough current" in series to your cable and see for yourself.

The voltage drop is what matters and if the cables are pure copper it is going to be the same no matter who puts their name on them.




-To be an audiophile you must abandon all research and science.
modenacart is offline  
post #43 of 126 Old 05-25-2019, 12:21 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Russia
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by modenacart View Post
The voltage drop is what matters and if the cables are pure copper it is going to be the same no matter who puts their name on them.




-To be an audiophile you must abandon all research and science.
Huh, I meant electrical damping reduction due to higher resistance of the cables.
You need quite long runs, but still possible.
aats is online now  
post #44 of 126 Old 05-25-2019, 12:22 PM
Advanced Member
 
modenacart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 515
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Liked: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by aats View Post
Huh, I meant electrical damping reduction due to higher resistance of the cables.


You are trying to cherry pick and that doesn’t work. It is a system level problem based on overall resistance and voltage to determine how much current will flow.


-To be an audiophile you must abandon all research and science.
modenacart is offline  
post #45 of 126 Old 05-25-2019, 12:27 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Russia
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by modenacart View Post
You are trying to cherry pick and that doesn’t work. It is a system level problem based on overall resistance and voltage to determine how much current will flow.


-To be an audiophile you must abandon all research and science.
What do you mean "system level problem"?
What exactly is your "system"?
aats is online now  
post #46 of 126 Old 05-25-2019, 12:28 PM
Advanced Member
 
modenacart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 515
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Liked: 175
Speaker cable

Quote:
Originally Posted by aats View Post
What do you mean "system level problem"?
What exactly is your "system"?


Really?????

Let’s assume the signal coming into the amp is stable so we will make our cut there. The system is the amp the signal goes into, the wire, and the speaker. They all determine current.


-To be an audiophile you must abandon all research and science.

Last edited by modenacart; 05-25-2019 at 12:36 PM.
modenacart is offline  
post #47 of 126 Old 05-25-2019, 12:30 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Kini62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 7,897
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2657 Post(s)
Liked: 2435
Quote:
Originally Posted by aats View Post
If there is no model, there is no physics, just your belief, no better than "audiophiles" beliefs that you despise.


Here is a fun physics experiment for you:
Disconnect your speaker from amplifier.
Gently tap on the cone, and listen to a sound.
Now, short speaker terminals with really short wire (your speaker wire will do if it is short and low AWG) and tap cone again, listen to a sound.
Some speakers are better than the others for this experiment but still some food for thought.

What does that have to do with cables


Expensive speaker wire is just as ridiculous as expensive power cords.
scionracing and modenacart like this.

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Onkyo RZ820
Roku Ultra, Apple TV, Sharp 70" Quattron
Kini62 is offline  
post #48 of 126 Old 05-25-2019, 12:50 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Russia
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
What does that have to do with cables


Expensive speaker wire is just as ridiculous as expensive power cords.
Well, cables determine (most amplifiers are have way lower impedance than cables) the effect you would observe by doing this - electrical damping.
Long runs of low quality high AWG cable = lowering of electrical damping factor, how noticeable that would be will depend on speaker. Connecting a resistor in series or tapping a cone demonstrates effect very well.
And I never said "buy expensive cable", I said "buy canare or electrical appliance cable", because they are good and have verified performance (Canare is just a good cable, and electrical appliance should be regulated), they are not expensive cables at all.
aats is online now  
post #49 of 126 Old 05-25-2019, 04:22 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 64
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by modenacart View Post
What? Higher gauge means thinner wire and will most definitely have more voltage drop. Any lower gauge than the minimum gauge necessary will keep the voltage drop low enough to keep the integrity of the signal.


-To be an audiophile you must abandon all research and science.

Pardon me. I equated higher gauge with larger wire - even though the gauge number decreases. So I thought you meant using a larger wire than needed would make distortion. Apologies.
scionracing and modenacart like this.
tooslow2 is online now  
post #50 of 126 Old 05-25-2019, 04:54 PM
Advanced Member
 
Snoogleheimer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Indpls. IN
Posts: 923
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 441 Post(s)
Liked: 211
Well, I wish I had gone with 12 gauge, or even 14 gauge. I went with 10 gauge and I think it's over kill and it puts a lot of stress on connectors from the weight. Just sayin.
pjp and Lp85253 like this.

Epson 5040ub 125" 2.35:1 Silver Ticket (white)
Pioneer Elite SC-99, Pioneer Elite A-20, Pioneer Elite SP-EFS73 (L,R,C) / SP-EBS73 (S & RS) / SW-E10 (4)
Sony UBP-X800, Tablo TUNER, nVidia Shield Pro
Snoogleheimer is offline  
post #51 of 126 Old 05-25-2019, 05:28 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
pase22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Montreal,Canada
Posts: 6,610
Mentioned: 78 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2988 Post(s)
Liked: 2481
Quote:
Originally Posted by aats View Post
Well, cables determine (most amplifiers are have way lower impedance than cables) the effect you would observe by doing this - electrical damping.
Long runs of low quality high AWG cable = lowering of electrical damping factor, how noticeable that would be will depend on speaker. Connecting a resistor in series or tapping a cone demonstrates effect very well.
And I never said "buy expensive cable", I said "buy canare or electrical appliance cable", because they are good and have verified performance (Canare is just a good cable, and electrical appliance should be regulated), they are not expensive cables at all.
Of course you'll have problems using 16awg wire for a 40ft run with 4ohm speakers. There are certain guidelines to be followed which is what those charts are for. $35 OFC copper will work the same as $800 OFC copper or Canare or whatever else you're selling if the right gauge is used for length and impedance. Noone is arguing that yet you keep on arguing pointlessly. This thread should have been closed after post #5 at the most.
modenacart likes this.

Kef Q100 FL/FR,SL/SR, Q200C, SVS SB-2000, Denon AVR-X3400H, , Panasonic 50" Plasma, Xbox One.
Bedroom: JBL Loft 50 , Loft 20, Bic F-12, Denon AVR-S710W, PS3, 32" Insigna LED.
pase22 is online now  
post #52 of 126 Old 05-25-2019, 07:15 PM
pjp
AVS Forum Special Member
 
pjp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,138
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 386 Post(s)
Liked: 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoogleheimer View Post
Well, I wish I had gone with 12 gauge, or even 14 gauge. I went with 10 gauge and I think it's over kill and it puts a lot of stress on connectors from the weight. Just sayin.
^^^^^^
THIS

Just follow the chart guideline and you can't go wrong. There is no need to go overboard, thick cables are very often a pain to deal with.

I built bi-wire 10gauge speaker cables just for kicks (2 10 gauge in parallel) for a 6 foot run for my 2-channel system -- they are like jumper cables bound in tech flex. I just did it for the hell of it and the equipment I am connecting to can handle the weight, but thick cables are often a pain. Don't go too thick, don't go too thin. You can go thinner than the chart and get away with it, but why would anyone do that when the difference in cost is usually only a couple of dollars.
pjp is offline  
post #53 of 126 Old 05-25-2019, 11:58 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Russia
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by aats View Post
Well, cables determine (most amplifiers are have way lower impedance than cables) the effect you would observe by doing this - electrical damping.
Long runs of low quality high AWG cable = lowering of electrical damping factor, how noticeable that would be will depend on speaker. Connecting a resistor in series or tapping a cone demonstrates effect very well.
And I never said "buy expensive cable", I said "buy canare or electrical appliance cable", because they are good and have verified performance (Canare is just a good cable, and electrical appliance should be regulated), they are not expensive cables at all.
Of course you'll have problems using 16awg wire for a 40ft run with 4ohm speakers. There are certain guidelines to be followed which is what those charts are for. $35 OFC copper will work the same as $800 OFC copper or Canare or whatever else you're selling if the right gauge is used for length and impedance. Noone is arguing that yet you keep on arguing pointlessly. This thread should have been closed after post #5 at the most.
Well, first, I am not selling anything.
Second, not every stated gauge is stated gauge and resistance (well at least where I live, maybe you have better regulated audio cables, but looking at the table I posted before, you have pretty much the same situation, implying that table is not wrong).

But if you are 100% sure with electrical parameters of cable you want to buy - go on, why not. I just wanted to warn users that actual parameters might be not what you expect thus making those charts inapplicable.

Last edited by aats; 05-26-2019 at 01:50 AM.
aats is online now  
post #54 of 126 Old 05-27-2019, 01:57 AM
Senior Member
 
machavez00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Phoenix, Az
Posts: 323
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 58
Cables arrived from Amazon. This what they look like next the 18 AWG they replaced.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	6E364C36-32E4-4875-9407-2452739BC87A.jpg
Views:	44
Size:	283.2 KB
ID:	2572254  

machavez00 is offline  
post #55 of 126 Old 05-28-2019, 02:41 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: UK/GB & NL
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Apparently you will have to be using very long runs of cable or unusually thin cable for it to really interfere with the sound, no matter whether CCA or OFC.
What does annoy me about CCA is the feel of the cable and the lack of resilience. It just doesn't floppily bend like copper does, and it's easy to fracture. I wired up CCA in a banana plug perfectly well and had a problem when I jogged it- it can be fractured simply by tightening it to binding posts. Aluminium has always had a poor reputation for resilience, e.g. in push bikes.
So basically I made the wrong choice of CCA for a cable to do A/B comparisons even with a banana plug to protect the wire from constant crushing in screw terminals. Seems to me CCA is only good for speaker setups that stay put, if you for some reason must save $10 or whatever.
I would happily have paid 50% more on real copper just for better flexibility and resilience.
pjp and SuperFist like this.
VictorTGT is offline  
post #56 of 126 Old 05-28-2019, 07:34 AM
pjp
AVS Forum Special Member
 
pjp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,138
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 386 Post(s)
Liked: 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorTGT View Post
What does annoy me about CCA is the feel of the cable and the lack of resilience. It just doesn't floppily bend like copper does, and it's easy to fracture. I wired up CCA in a banana plug perfectly well and had a problem when I jogged it- it can be fractured simply by tightening it to binding posts. Aluminium has always had a poor reputation for resilience, e.g. in push bikes.
So basically I made the wrong choice of CCA for a cable to do A/B comparisons even with a banana plug to protect the wire from constant crushing in screw terminals. Seems to me CCA is only good for speaker setups that stay put, if you for some reason must save $10 or whatever.
I would happily have paid 50% more on real copper just for better flexibility and resilience.
^^^^^^ EXACTLY THIS ^^^^^^^

Aluminum is not malleable. It really doesn't handle twisting or contortion well at all. I just bought some underground speaker wire (Mediabridge 14GA), which happened to be CCA (I didn't really pay much attention when I ordered it -- a mistake I will not make again).

Even though 14-gauge wire is fairly thick, when you twist the exposed CCA wire, it doesn't stay twisted. When you try to join the 14GA CCA with 14GA OFC, it's like rapping string (OFC) around a pole (OFC). I can't imagine this stuff being durable long-term, especially if you move the cable a lot. Maybe there is better quality CCA that has a higher percentage of copper, so the difference is less dramatic than what I experienced, but I will not buy any wire that has an aluminum core ever again.
SuperFist likes this.
pjp is offline  
post #57 of 126 Old 05-28-2019, 08:52 AM
Senior Member
 
MTVhike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: North Shore of central Long Island, NY (Stony Brook)
Posts: 297
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 187 Post(s)
Liked: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by machavez00 View Post
Cables arrived from Amazon. This what they look like next the 18 AWG they replaced.
Which is which? The lower one seems to have more insulation, but the wire diameter seems about the same!
MTVhike is offline  
post #58 of 126 Old 05-28-2019, 09:05 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 3,943
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1883 Post(s)
Liked: 1612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoogleheimer View Post
Well, I wish I had gone with 12 gauge, or even 14 gauge. I went with 10 gauge and I think it's over kill and it puts a lot of stress on connectors from the weight. Just sayin.
even 12 gauge can strain some connections .. good point...

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
Lp85253 is online now  
post #59 of 126 Old 05-28-2019, 10:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bluewizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,621
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2244 Post(s)
Liked: 1484
Speaker Wire Length for 3% and 5% Signal Loss (5% is considered acceptable) -

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...l#post32129745







Power Handling of Common Speaker Wire -

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...ch-enough.html

16ga wire would break down like this -

Power = Current² x Resistance = 3.7² x 8 = 13.69 x 8 = 109.52 sustained watts of power

Power = Current² x Resistance = 12² x 8 = 144 x 8 = 1152 peak working watts

Power = Current² x Resistance = 22² x 8 = 484 x 8 = 3872 max peak watts of power


14ga wire would look like this -

Power = Current² x Resistance = 5.9² x 8 = 34.81 x 8 = 279 sustained watts of power

Power = Current² x Resistance = 15² x 8 = 225 x 8 = 1800 peak working watts of power

Power = Current² x Resistance = 32² x 8 = 1024 x 8 = 8192 max peak watts of power


12ga wire would break down like this -

P
ower = Current² x Resistance = 9.3² x 8 = 86.49 x 8 = 692 sustained watts of power

Power = Current² x Resistance = 20² x 8 = 400 x 8 = 3200 peak working watts of power

Power = Current² x Resistance = 41² x 8 = 1600 x 8 = 12,800 max peak watts of power


As others have said, if you are under normal circumstances, that is not exceptionally long wire runs, then any Oxygen Free Copper (OFC) of 14ga will get the job done. Generally you are looking for purity above 99%, but you will find that 99.9% and 99.99% are common.


With 13ga (2.5²mm) wire, at 50 feet or more, Inductive losses start to add up. From memory at 50ft, the combined Inductive and Resistive losses are about 15% which translates to roughly 1.5dB. Keep in mind that Inductive loss is frequency dependent, so in this example, the losses at 3500hz are about 3% but the losses at 12khz are about 10%.

I think for front speakers, most people will have no problem keeping their losses due to the Resistive aspect of speaker wire down in the area of 1%.




But longer runs come with a second problem I had never calculated before. Using the above analysis, I determined what frequencies would be effected by the Inductive Impedance of 50ft of very common 13ga/2.5mm² twin lead cable.

At 2.286% Inductive Impedance loss, the frequency was 3,614hz.

That is MUCH lower than I would have imagined.

At 10% Inductive Impedance loss, the frequency was 12,650hz.

Capacitive loses were still well outside the Audio Range. But, again, the Inductive losses were much more significant than I imagined.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...rspective.html

This thread focus on all the measurable parameters of Speaker Cable -

- Resistance
- Inductance
- Capacitance
- Skin Effect
- Current and Power handling capacity.

We have also considered Power Handling ability. With all these factors combined and all reaching the same conclusion, I'm not sure what else we need to know.

All the high claims made by high-end speakers are true - long grain copper, Litz Wire, etc.... - they are true, but they don't matter. Plus while fancy Jacket and Pants look cool and cost money, they too don't functionally matter.

You might want something prettier than this, but this is all you really need unless your circumstances are unusual -

KabelDirekt Speaker wire - 14ga, 99.9% Pure OFC Copper - $30.92/50ft -


https://www.amazon.com/KabelDirekt-S.../dp/B07BBRQ5YT

Just passing it on.

Steve/bluewizard
jcazes and SuperFist like this.

Last edited by bluewizard; 05-28-2019 at 11:04 AM.
bluewizard is offline  
post #60 of 126 Old 05-28-2019, 01:10 PM
Newbie
 
Lee23 Roy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
BJC here
Lee23 Roy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off