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post #61 of 131 Old 05-28-2019, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by redrovermiami View Post
Does it really matter what speaker cable you use?]
Yes, if you believe it does. No, if you believe it doesn't. And I'm being dead serious-it is related to the placebo effect. Also seriously, I did hear a demo where the sound of the violins in "Hall Of The Mountain King" changed unmistakably. However:
- The change, while unmistakable, was not huge.
- I could not have said that one was "better"-just "different"
- The system was quite extreme-Mark Levinson CD player into ML amp, and Apogee Scintilla speakers which are of VERY low impedance.
Then again, the cables swapped from expensive to insane expensive, not from cheap junk to beefazoid. Then again again one set of cables was MIT, which had "Terminating Networks" which could well affect the frequency response.

Personally, I just get a huge gauge, and don't worry about it. Once the gauge is huge I try to get something cool looking or put sleeves.
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post #62 of 131 Old 05-28-2019, 05:30 PM
 
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Monoprice is crap, why do some people have a habit of parroting monoprice everywhere they go?

If you dont want to spend on a 'higher end cable', then get this spool from Maxbrite on Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Performance-G...teway&sr=8-104

^It's a very good cable, i currently use it.

I have used an Audioquest (criminal word here?) X2 speaker cable spool prior to using the Maxbrite i linked above. Nothing changed with sound, but the Audioquest was slightly more comfortable to work with when stripping jackets and the copper was rolled already, so that made the installation fast. The Maxbrite needed a little more effort during installation but now that it's set up, there is nothing to complain. The Maxbrite 100 ft. spool is quite a bit cheaper than the AQ X2 spool, both available on amazon.
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post #63 of 131 Old 05-28-2019, 05:36 PM
 
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I have never seen speaker cable making any difference to sound with movies, if you have a dedicated 2 channel setup for music and the speakers are in the high price range, 5000 usd or so, then instead of getting a spool and cutting two cables, you could go for a little more expensive cable pair that has soldered banana terminations.
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post #64 of 131 Old 05-28-2019, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
Speakers in the high price range, 5000 usd or so...
Yeah, sure. lol

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post #65 of 131 Old 05-28-2019, 05:52 PM
 
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The flaw in cables is NOT the copper running from point A to point B, copper is the same, the flaw with a cheaper cable can be the end points i.e. the cable terminations at the end. If the cable terminations are poorly soldered or loose, this will make you lose sound quality. Very cheap cables that have banana plugs at the ends in some cases dont tend to have the terminations soldered properly. So that is something to consider.
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post #66 of 131 Old 05-28-2019, 05:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Snoogleheimer View Post
Yeah, sure. lol
umm not sure wht's your point there, you dont seem to consider 5000 usd speakers to be in the high price range? A wilson alexandria is what would constitute high price to you?
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post #67 of 131 Old 05-28-2019, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
Monoprice is crap, why do some people have a habit of parroting monoprice everywhere they go?

If you dont want to spend on a 'higher end cable', then get this spool from Maxbrite on Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Performance-G...teway&sr=8-104

^It's a very good cable, i currently use it.

I have used an Audioquest (criminal word here?) X2 speaker cable spool prior to using the Maxbrite i linked above. Nothing changed with sound, but the Audioquest was slightly more comfortable to work with when stripping jackets and the copper was rolled already, so that made the installation fast. The Maxbrite needed a little more effort during installation but now that it's set up, there is nothing to complain. The Maxbrite 100 ft. spool is quite a bit cheaper than the AQ X2 spool, both available on amazon.
That MaxBrite stuff, it's NOT rated for installation in walls & ceilings. Is that what you meant by "installation"?

I use the Monoprice Access series CL-2 jacketed 12ga #2817 and it's got a strand count of 165. Compare to 65 for the MaxBrite.

It can be used inside walls and costs $43.87 (less than $0.05 per foot) for a 100ft roll. That's less than $5.00 a roll more than MaxBrite and is up to code. Works just fine outside of a wall too!

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=2817
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post #68 of 131 Old 05-28-2019, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
umm not sure wht's your point there, you dont seem to consider 5000 usd speakers to be in the high price range? A wilson alexandria is what would constitute high price to you?
LMAO! I'm sure most on here no EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

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post #69 of 131 Old 05-28-2019, 06:07 PM
 
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@Ken , No i did not talk of in wall or CL2 rating. I meant basic installation... the ease of stripping the jacket and twisting the strands, the audioquest X2 that i used few years was more comfortable to work with in regards to that, the Maxbrite i have now took a little more effort but regardless it's a very good cable, thick individual pure copper strands, no CCA. I have liked it.
And maxbrite is only around 39 usd on amazon for a 100 ft. 12 awg spool.

monoprice fans talk like there arent other options than the brand they swear by. i would never buy anything from monoprice.
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post #70 of 131 Old 05-28-2019, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
That MaxBrite stuff, it's NOT rated for installation in walls & ceilings. Is that what you meant by "installation"?

I use the Monoprice Access series CL-2 jacketed 12ga #2817 and it's got a strand count of 165. Compare to 65 for the MaxBrite.

It can be used inside walls and costs $43.87 (less than $0.05 per foot) for a 100ft roll. That's less than $5.00 a roll more than MaxBrite and is up to code. Works just fine outside of a wall too!

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=2817
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Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
@Ken, No i did not talk of in wall or CL2 rating. I meant basic installation... the ease of stripping the jacket and twisting the strands, the audioquest X2 that i used few years was more comfortable to work with in regards to that, the Maxbrite i have now took a little more effort but regardless it's a very good cable, thick individual pure copper strands, no CCA. I have liked it.
And maxbrite is only around 39 usd on amazon for a 100 ft. 12 awg spool.

monoprice fans talk like there arent other options than the brand they swear by. i would never buy anything from monoprice.
Not buying from monoprice, is your personal option.

I believe Ken was just mentioning, that in wall/ceiling speaker wires. Need to be rated CL2 or CL3.
A very important point, for those who want to run speaker wires that way.
Since if using normal speaker wires, a claim by the Insurance Company for a fire. Could be denied, even if not at fault.

And for your info, these are the one I use;
http://www.knukonceptz.com/home-thea...er-wire-100ft/
Nothing magic about wires, just need to be the sufficient AWG for the distance required.


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post #71 of 131 Old 05-28-2019, 06:42 PM
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Which is which? The lower one seems to have more insulation, but the wire diameter seems about the same!
The lower. It looks like two braided 18 gauge strands. .

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post #72 of 131 Old 05-28-2019, 06:46 PM
 
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This is a picture of the cables i used more than 10 years back when i had a 2ch. dedicated music room (i wont mention the brand name to rile up some people


Now i dont have a dedicated room , just a HT setup where all speakers including the fronts are wired by the maxbrite i mentioned above. These cables are lying useless. But what i liked about them was their really solid factory terminated banana plugs. When i visit cable shops and they show me cables with banana plugs nowadays, the terminations look flimsy. Even if you get bare wire and put your own banana plugs (whether those screw type or fan type plugs), the termination is not as solid as good factory terminated plugs.

The discussion shouldn't revolve around copper, it should revolve around the quality of the plugs at the ends, because they can make a difference to sound.
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post #73 of 131 Old 05-28-2019, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
This is a picture of the cables i used more than 10 years back when i had a 2ch. dedicated music room.





Now i dont have a dedicated room , just a HT setup where all speakers including the fronts are wired by the maxbrite i mentioned above. These cables are lying useless. But what i liked about them was their really solid factory terminated banana plugs. When i visit cable shops and they show me cables with banana plugs nowadays, the terminations look flimsy. Even if you get bare wire and put your own banana plugs (whether those screw type or fan type plugs), the termination is not as solid as good factory terminated plugs.



The discussion shouldn't revolve around copper, it should revolve around the quality of the plugs at the ends, because they can make a difference to sound.


Soldering is very easy. Most anyone can solder excellent terminations on their wires. There is nothing magic about soldering.


-To be an audiophile you must abandon all research and science.
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post #74 of 131 Old 05-28-2019, 06:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by modenacart View Post
Soldering is very easy. Most anyone can solder excellent terminations on their wires. There is nothing magic about soldering.


-To be an audiophile you must abandon all research and science.
A poor solder job yourself vs something that comes properly factory terminated can definitely make a difference. And many people just get those screw type or fan type banana plugs to use on bare wire that dont even require a solder, imo those are not as solid as factory terminated plugs.
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post #75 of 131 Old 05-28-2019, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
A poor solder job yourself vs something that comes properly factory terminated can definitely make a difference. And many people just get those screw type or fan type banana plugs to use on bare wire that dont even require a solder, imo those are not as solid as factory terminated plugs.


I have no idea what you are trying to say. Soldering is easy. Factory terminations can have quality defects. Often times people who DYI have a lot of pride in their work and spend more time on it than for profit companies. There is no reason someone cannot solder in excellent terminations on their cables.


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post #76 of 131 Old 05-28-2019, 07:06 PM
 
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I have no idea what you are trying to say. Soldering is easy. Factory terminations can have quality defects. Often times people who DYI have a lot of pride in their work and spend more time on it than for profit companies. There is no reason someone cannot solder in excellent terminations on their cables.


-To be an audiophile you must abandon all research and science.
And there is no reason why some people also couldn't do a poor soldering job themselves which will result in loss of signal at the ends. A high quality cable with factory terminated plugs will be less prone to such error or defects. Im not talking about those cheap 20 usd pair of cables with banana plugs i come across at shops, some of those dont even seem to have a tight connection.
And secondly like i said, many people who do it themselves dont even bother with a solder with the kind of banana plugs that are now avilable that just ask you to tighten 2 screws or fan out the copper stands. I think a good factory terminated cable will always be better than such a connection.
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post #77 of 131 Old 05-28-2019, 07:08 PM
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And there is no reason why some people also couldn't do a poor soldering job themselves which will result in loss of signal at the ends. A high quality cable with factory terminated plugs will be less prone to such error or defects. Im not talking about those cheap 20 usd pair of cables with banana plugs i come across at shops, some of those dont even seem to have a tight connection.

And secondly like i said, many people who do it themselves dont even bother with a solder with the kind of banana plugs that are now avilable that just ask you to tighten 2 screws or fan out the copper stands. I think a good factory terminated cable will always be better than such a connection.

I completely disagree. There is absolutely no reason why someone who can solder cannot terminate just as well as a factory. You really need to stop with the misinformation. Soldering is not magic.



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post #78 of 131 Old 05-28-2019, 07:17 PM
 
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^lol you are repeating yourself . You are discarding the possibility of user error when people do it themselves, it's not that some people "can't" do a good job with it, it's that a poor soldering possibility exists.
And the second point that is escaping you, most people nowadays use banana plugs that DON'T require a solder, when you tighten two screws or fan out the copper stands, that's NOT a solder. This kind of connection is not as solid as factory terminated plugs.
Most of the separately available banana plugs nowadays you find on amazon like sewell, nakamichi etc. just have a mechanism for 'locking in' the copper cable, either by a set of screws or by fanning out the copper strands and tightening a metal piece over them.

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post #79 of 131 Old 05-28-2019, 07:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by bobknavs View Post
Take any advice (including this) with a grain of sale. Speaker cables are one of the favorite subjects of debate. Remember that some audiophiles claim to be able to hear differences due to cheater cords (the cord that connects the electric power from the wall to the receiver or amplifier). You can spend hundreds, or thousands, of dollars on a single cheater cord.
You are referring to the power cord that connects your amplifier as 'cheater' cord? Well in a few blind A/B testings, power cords have shown to have some 'effect' on sound, google it. Most of the times though you will be okay with the original power cord that comes inside your amplifier box. And in many testings, it has been proven if that cord connected to your power amplifier is going through a power conditioner, it is limiting the current to your amplifier and thus reducing sound quality.
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post #80 of 131 Old 05-29-2019, 03:36 AM
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You are referring to the power cord that connects your amplifier as 'cheater' cord? Well in a few blind A/B testings, power cords have shown to have some 'effect' on sound, google it. Most of the times though you will be okay with the original power cord that comes inside your amplifier box. And in many testings, it has been proven if that cord connected to your power amplifier is going through a power conditioner, it is limiting the current to your amplifier and thus reducing sound quality.


Provide the study. You can’t because no blind study exists.


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post #81 of 131 Old 05-29-2019, 03:38 AM
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^lol you are repeating yourself . You are discarding the possibility of user error when people do it themselves, it's not that some people "can't" do a good job with it, it's that a poor soldering possibility exists.

And the second point that is escaping you, most people nowadays use banana plugs that DON'T require a solder, when you tighten two screws or fan out the copper stands, that's NOT a solder. This kind of connection is not as solid as factory terminated plugs.

Most of the separately available banana plugs nowadays you find on amazon like sewell, nakamichi etc. just have a mechanism for 'locking in' the copper cable, either by a set of screws or by fanning out the copper strands and tightening a metal piece over them.


Compression type fittings work just as well as solder. There is no study that proves otherwise. As long as there is good contact they are the same. Using bare wire is just as good too. There is no magic in cables.


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post #82 of 131 Old 05-29-2019, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by modenacart View Post
Compression type fittings work just as well as solder. There is no study that proves otherwise. As long as there is good contact they are the same. Using bare wire is just as good too. There is no magic in cables.

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+1
No magic for speaker wires and cables, as long the AWG is sufficient for the distance require.
Glad you do not fall into those Snake Oil practices

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Soldering is very easy. Most anyone can solder excellent terminations on their wires. There is nothing magic about soldering.


-To be an audiophile you must abandon all research and science.
Agree that soldering can be easy to do. The biggest part about soldering, you have to heat the connector itself. And once hot enough, the solder will go into the connector.
Other wise if melting the solder directly, one might end-up with a cold solder. Resulting in a poor connection.
The underline, is more for those reading along. And want to learn how to solder properly.


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post #83 of 131 Old 05-29-2019, 06:39 AM
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+1
No magic for speaker wires and cables, as long the AWG is sufficient for the distance require.
Glad you do not fall into those Snake Oil practices




Agree that soldering can be easy to do. The biggest part about soldering, you have to heat the connector itself. And once hot enough, the solder will go into the connector.
Other wise if melting the solder directly, one might end-up with a cold solder


And use flux. Even with flux core solder. Watch the solder flow through the joint to ensure you don’t get a cold joint.


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post #84 of 131 Old 05-29-2019, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by darthray View Post
The biggest part about soldering, you have to heat the connector itself. And once hot enough, the solder will go into the connector.
Other wise if melting the solder directly, one might end-up with a cold solder. Resulting in a poor connection.
Use flux also. True about heating the conductor first being key. The only real "art" is in threading the needle between heating the conductor long enough to get a good solder joint, but not heating it so long that you melt the insulator or whatever is around the conductor.

When I made my 10-gauge bi-wire speaker cables, my electric soldering irons could not heat up two 10-gauge wires enough to get a good solder joint without the insulation melting first, but I was able to get a good joint using a much hotter butane soldering iron (Weller PSI100K).
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All things considered, gauge, length, properly made plug connections, etc; how long do you keep cables/wires in use? The wires in use on my 5.1 system are seven years old.

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On the Blue Jeans Cable locking banana plugs I use, there's a "well" between the two set screws where one would solder the connection. It's used by them for their ultrasonic welding of the cables they make and sell. I have two 60watt soldering stations that use in tandem to get the soldering done on the cables I make. There's nothing but metal, no plastic to melt.

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post #87 of 131 Old 05-29-2019, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by machavez00 View Post
All things considered, gauge, length, properly made plug connections, etc; how long do you keep cables/wires in use? The wires in use on my 5.1 system are seven years old.
Pretty-much until the insulation gets crispy....which with modern materials should be never.

Good idea to check and/or even re-secure the connectors at least once a year and more often if you think of it.
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post #88 of 131 Old 05-29-2019, 07:33 AM
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It's too vague description and is not true.
You can use a metal coat hanger as speaker wire and get the same results as high dollar speaker wire.

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post #89 of 131 Old 05-29-2019, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machavez00 View Post
All things considered, gauge, length, properly made plug connections, etc; how long do you keep cables/wires in use? The wires in use on my 5.1 system are seven years old.
Why would you think there's a time limit? Cables don't "expire".
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post #90 of 131 Old 05-29-2019, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modenacart View Post
And use flux. Even with flux core solder. Watch the solder flow through the joint to ensure you don’t get a cold joint.

-To be an audiophile you must abandon all research and science.
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Originally Posted by pjp View Post
Use flux also. True about heating the conductor first being key. The only real "art" is in threading the needle between heating the conductor long enough to get a good solder joint, but not heating it so long that you melt the insulator or whatever is around the conductor.

When I made my 10-gauge bi-wire speaker cables, my electric soldering irons could not heat up two 10-gauge wires enough to get a good solder joint without the insulation melting first, but I was able to get a good joint using a much hotter butane soldering iron (Weller PSI100K).

How did I ever forgot to also mention, using flux
One of the basic of soldering, my Bad on this one.


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