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rbfastback 05-23-2019 01:10 PM

HT System advice for $1500 budget with questions
 
UPDATE 5/26:
not wall mounting bookshelves anymore, going to go with regular speaker stands now.

Hey guys this is my first post,
i’m really excited to finally get into everything with AV and glad to be on the forum.

i’ve been reading up a lot on this lately for the past 2 weeks but i need a little assistance/direction, i’m 100% new to home audio and audio in general.

I’m pairing this system with my LG OLED 65”

room size:
29w X17d X 8(lowest)-12(highest in middle)cathedral ceiling

open floor plan including the kitchen, dining and an adjoining hallway that’s pretty long but L shaped

-sitting location is 9-10’ away from tv/entertainment center and there is a wall 4.5-5’ behind my primary couch

looking for help deciding on a 3.1/2.1 setup (for now)
depending on price i’m willing to wait for the center if it means getting better L/R bookshelf’s

eventually my end goal will be a 5.2-5.2.2 years later when i have more space L/R and $

70% movie/tv 25% music 5% gaming (usually use headphones tho)

looking to spend $1500 or less now (maybe another 750-1k later)
stay at home dad with 4 kids.
twin 1yo’s,3yo an 11yo.
so that’s why i want the speakers off the ground and up higher due to the fact that the 1yo twins will absolutely destroy,break and castrate anything within their reach!
(ill have to protect the sub somehow)
not saying stands won’t work later but they won’t right now.
(SEE PICTURES OF ROOM)

-what i’m looking for:
-AVR
-2 bookshelves
-center
-slightly compact sub
(nothing deeper then 19.5”)
most ported 12”s are to large.

-also wiring and 2 wall mounts for L/R bookshelf’s but i don’t wanna include that in 1500 cap.

-voice/dialog is important (mostly movies and tv)
-music i listen to is very broad but mostly all electronic styles and rap)

i understand i will need to listen for myself i just need assistance knowing the direction to go and narrow it down.

i’ve read into warm/neutral/bright a lot but have no experience.
from reading about it i would assume i want a neutral/warm but with good detail in the upper range for voice.

•once i get it a little narrowed down and pick an AVS i can order stuff to audition that has a decent return policy, or is in best buy.


•Bookshelf’s (probably wall mount)
i know i’m all over the place:
-KEF Q-150 (a lot of recommendations and A4L has them for $350 factory recertified )
-KEF Q-350 leaning towards these (A4L factory recertified for$500 or amazon damaged box $540)
-Ascend CBM-170 se (a lot of recommendations for HT)
-HSU HB-1 mk2 (great package price but if i can get better HT quality id rather pay slightly more)
-Monitor Audio Bronze 2 (also pricy but A LOt of ppl always have them on short list)
-HTD level three (affordable with great reviews)
-SVS prime(more $, don’t see a lot of talk but great WAF if i get the svs sub)

-A4L has canton chrono’s for a great price but no proper matching center as of now.

any good looking recommendations for wall mounting?
maybe the B-Tech BT77 Ultragrip Pro Speaker Mount?
——————————

AVR:
Important to get first so i can do home auditions on bookshelf’s.
i have no idea an need most help in this area

i’m definitely down to get it from accessories4less refurbished to save $$$
id like more options for space to grow in the future and to power the speakers an much as possible.

-at least 5.2.2 capability
-Audyssey MultEQ tunning app???
-4k/HDR10/dolby vision is very important
-at least 4 hdmi’s minimum
-bluetooth, wifi, apple airplay
-is something like 100+ watt per channel a big benefit?

someone recommend i stick with denon like the DENON AVR-X3300W $430 from accessories4less.
seems like it has a lot of options but i’m a complete noob so who knows.
———————
Center:
honestly whatever is the matching class/brand as the bookshelf’s listed above

also don’t mind at all to wait on this, quality bookshelf’s and avr are most important followed by sub
——————————-
Sub:
19.5” depth issues
-svs pb-1000
-svs sb-2000
-Monolith 10
-VTF-1 MK3(this is only if i get the hybrid 1 - 3.1 package)

sub will be left side of the tv (unfortunately facing the end of another couch 2 feet away

-don’t want it deeper then 19”ish.

honestly i know it’s a large room and should get at least 1-2 pb-2000 but thats too large for now.
i watched the video by svs on ported vs sealed an it made me feel better about going sealed but i know ported may be better for me and movies.

Questions:
-q1) someone told me just to get 2 active studio monitors and a sub??
like the yamaha hs8 studio monitor
he tells me it’s way better and way cheaper cuz i won’t need an AVR and it’s a much better quality sound and range capability?

-q2) if so what to control/tune/eq? aside from an expensive avr

-q3) if that’s a good option then can u do zones like 5.1 with a proper controller?


apologies for the long post but i’ve been spending 3-4 hours a day reading up about so much audio information in so many categories while taking care of the kids it’s just a lot to take in.

thank you so so much for any help you would like to offer

Mike
SW Floridahttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6413e4680d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...5c6af2124e.jpg

rbfastback 05-23-2019 07:14 PM

An update, i’m planning on removing the monitor audio bronze from the list.
most of the reviews tend to lean toward a darker sound, laid-back and too warm with not as much detail in the top end.

id say they are among the best looking in my opinion.

if anyone disagrees with this i’d love to hear from someone who has heard them vs the others.

i’m leaving hard towards the kef q-350’s but i’d like a solid 3-4 to buy and listen too first

rbfastback 05-23-2019 08:40 PM

i just ordered the Denon AVR-X3400H new

i know it was a little more $ but i want to plan ahead.

payed 499 shipped new

still have roughly 1k+ so i figure 500 bookshelf’s and 500 sub
if i get the svs pb1000 to test out i can see if it’s enough and if not upgrade it to the 2000 for free i believe

cocrh 05-23-2019 08:45 PM

Check out RSL packages. Nice speakers and look good.

https://rslspeakers.com/cg3-overview/

Packages at the bottom of the page.

bobknavs 05-23-2019 09:43 PM

GajCA has compiled a list of relatively inexpensive subs: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...l#post58079066

You may need to go with a sealed sub to meet your space requirements. A sealed sub may not play as loud or as low as a ported one, but some prefer them for music.

A Rythmik L12 may be a good choice.

I don't own one; I have a pair of Hsu VTF-3 Mk5s. A single VTF-3 would be outside your budget, and dimensions.

motrek 05-23-2019 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbfastback (Post 58091272)
An update, i’m planning on removing the monitor audio bronze from the list.
most of the reviews tend to lean toward a darker sound, laid-back and too warm with not as much detail in the top end.

id say they are among the best looking in my opinion.

if anyone disagrees with this i’d love to hear from someone who has heard them vs the others.

i’m leaving hard towards the kef q-350’s but i’d like a solid 3-4 to buy and listen too first

Infinity Reference speakers (e.g., R162 bookshelf speakers) get universal praise. They also tend to go on sale for 30-50% off once in a while. Looks like you can get a manufacturer-refurbished pair for $175 right now if you want to go that route. Harman (parent company) does great work and it seems like the Infinitys are really downmarket Revels--not a bad thing to be.

I own a pair of Ascend CBM-170s. They are spectacular but they can sound a little thin. For a space as big as yours, you would be leaning heavily on your subwoofer(s).

The KEF Q350s measure great (check out the recent Stereophile review) but people seem to think they lack bass vs. their competition. Might as well go with the Ascends IMO.

Other notes re: your post:
- You might want to put the sub in the corner for boundary reinforcement. Locating it in the middle of a wall can result in acoustical weirdness. But who knows. Subwoofers can be tricky.
- If you place the bookshelf speakers to the left and right of the TV (where the decorative cabinets are now) then you shouldn't need a center channel. It'd be as if you had one really wide center channel speaker.

RayGuy 05-24-2019 12:04 AM

A downward firing sealed sub may be the most kidproof. You might consider a Martin Logan Dynamo 700 or 1000. Both are on closeout pricing on Amazon.

modenacart 05-24-2019 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbfastback (Post 58091578)
i just ordered the Denon AVR-X3400H new

i know it was a little more $ but i want to plan ahead.

payed 499 shipped new

still have roughly 1k+ so i figure 500 bookshelf’s and 500 sub
if i get the svs pb1000 to test out i can see if it’s enough and if not upgrade it to the 2000 for free i believe



Depending on how patient you are, slickdeals.net is a great site to find deals on receivers and speakers. I was able to get a denon x4500h for $599. It took a lot of patients and some luck though.

I recommend you listen to any speakers you are interested in if you can.

There is also a great thread on the science behind what people like in speakers and Dr Toole participates if you are inclined to understand more about that. He stated that the Yamaha hs8 is worth checking out based on the measurements.

A video by Dr Toole if you are interested.


-To be an audiophile you must abandon all research and science.

WLDock 05-24-2019 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbfastback (Post 58091578)
i just ordered the Denon AVR-X3400H new

i know it was a little more $ but i want to plan ahead.

payed 499 shipped new

still have roughly 1k+ so i figure 500 bookshelf’s and 500 sub
if i get the svs pb1000 to test out i can see if it’s enough and if not upgrade it to the 2000 for free i believe

I was going to suggest the Onkyo TX-RZ830 on sale for $500 at Ass.4Less but that Denon is cool.
https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ver-new/1.html

For speakers, check the reviews then head to your local dealer, Best Buy to check out the Polk Audio Signature S20 bookies and the S30 center. Can get the S20 for $209 refurb and the S30 for $159 refurb direct from Polk.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Polk-Audio-...frcectupt=true
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Polk-Audio-...frcectupt=true

FEEDBACK
http://soundadvicenews.com/2018/03/3...eakers-review/
Quote:

The Polk Signature S20s are largish bookshelf speakers with a well-executed retro design and Polk’s rear-mounted PowerPort, which means they can be used close to the rear walls. The sound lives up to the “American HiFi” tagline as the Signature S20s are cut from the same cloth as the best American speakers. My vinyl system has $6,500/pair Ohm Walsh 5000 speakers and when I switched to the Signature S20s, I was struck by how the overall character and pleasing nature across musical genres resembled the Ohms, which cost over 21 times more. Obviously the Ohms are significantly better and play in a different league, but the Signature S20s are worthy of the “American HiFi” name. The bass is also surprisingly solid given their size. The Polk Audio Signature S20s are now my top speaker pick under $300.
https://blog.son-video.com/en/2018/0...olk-audio-s20/
Quote:

Polk Audio S20: compared to…

Q Acoustics 3020i: the Polk S20 benefits from a more open sound stage and provides more oomph in the lows. The Polk Audio S20 is also a lot more temperate in the mids and, as a result, offers a more pleasant listening experience. Polk has the upper hand with its more dynamic restitution.

Monitor Audio Monitor 100: the Polk S20 is less stern and dry. It also benefits from smoother and more delicate highs. For an articulate listening experience, the Polk Audio S20 is the way to go.

Klipsch RP-150M: the Polk S20 is a bit more shy and does not have quite the same punch as the RP-150M. While the Polk speaker benefits from a better extension in the highs and lows, the Klipsch RP-150M wins this round when it comes to the mids (the acoustic horn has an important part to play in this).

Jamo Concert C93: the Polk S20 offers a comparable sound restitution but benefits from broader lows. The Polk S20’s woofer is the winner of the round.

B&W 686 S2: the Polk speaker is less rigorous than the model from B&W when it comes to high frequencies. The B&W 686 S2 is more refined while the Polk S20 is the more expressive of the two.

Polk Audio S20: conclusion
The Polk Audio S20 is a very interesting value. We enjoyed the qualities of its tweeter and the details it brought to the sound stage. The lows are generous yet well integrated. It is difficult to find drawbacks to this speaker, which will pair-up really well with a hi-fi amplifier (D-Stream Wamp 200SB, Marantz M-CR511, Emotiva BasX A-100, …) or with a mid-range AV receiver. (Yamaha MusicCast RX-V483, Denon AVR-X550BT, Onkyo TX-NR676, …).


You'll have $632 left over. Then, get the space saving SVS PC-2000 cylinder 12" ported sub for $679 shipped! Don't worry about the kids, it's a 16.6" diameter 50 lbs beast. Its solid and they won't knock it over. You have to teach kids boundaries and to stay away from things else they will try to climb up to the top of your entertainment center. Anyway, I taught my kids early and never had any real issues besides small toys in the VCR and DVD player. As parents we have no choice but to keep an eye on them at all times!
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...-2000&_sacat=0

Picture of the Polk Signature bookies and the SVS PC-2000
https://i.imgur.com/emzdYBV.jpg

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/08...g?v=1529026533

https://powerreviews.s3.amazonaws.co...95008_full.jpg

pase22 05-24-2019 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbfastback (Post 58089810)
Hey guys this is my first post,
i’m really excited to finally get into everything with AV and glad to be on the forum.

i’ve been reading up a lot on this lately for the past 2 weeks but i need a little assistance/direction, i’m 100% new to home audio and audio in general.

I’m pairing this system with my LG OLED 65”

room size:
29w X17d X 8(lowest)-12(highest in middle)cathedral ceiling

open floor plan including the kitchen, dining and an adjoining hallway that’s pretty long but L shaped

-sitting location is 9-10’ away from tv/entertainment center and there is a wall 4.5-5’ behind my primary couch

looking for help deciding on a 3.1/2.1 setup (for now)
depending on price i’m willing to wait for the center if it means getting better L/R bookshelf’s

eventually my end goal will be a 5.2-5.2.2 years later when i have more space L/R and $

70% movie/tv 25% music 5% gaming (usually use headphones tho)

looking to spend $1500 or less now (maybe another 750-1k later)
stay at home dad with 4 kids.
twin 1yo’s,3yo an 11yo.
so that’s why i want the speakers off the ground and up higher due to the fact that the 1yo twins will absolutely destroy,break and castrate anything within their reach!
(ill have to protect the sub somehow)
not saying stands won’t work later but they won’t right now.
(SEE PICTURES OF ROOM)

-what i’m looking for:
-AVR
-2 bookshelves
-center
-slightly compact sub
(nothing deeper then 19.5”)
most ported 12”s are to large.

-also wiring and 2 wall mounts for L/R bookshelf’s but i don’t wanna include that in 1500 cap.

-voice/dialog is important (mostly movies and tv)
-music i listen to is very broad but mostly all electronic styles and rap)

i understand i will need to listen for myself i just need assistance knowing the direction to go and narrow it down.

i’ve read into warm/neutral/bright a lot but have no experience.
from reading about it i would assume i want a neutral/warm but with good detail in the upper range for voice.

•once i get it a little narrowed down and pick an AVS i can order stuff to audition that has a decent return policy, or is in best buy.


•Bookshelf’s (probably wall mount)
i know i’m all over the place:
-KEF Q-150 (a lot of recommendations and A4L has them for $350 factory recertified )
-KEF Q-350 leaning towards these (A4L factory recertified for$500 or amazon damaged box $540)
-Ascend CBM-170 se (a lot of recommendations for HT)
-HSU HB-1 mk2 (great package price but if i can get better HT quality id rather pay slightly more)
-Monitor Audio Bronze 2 (also pricy but A LOt of ppl always have them on short list)
-HTD level three (affordable with great reviews)
-SVS prime(more $, don’t see a lot of talk but great WAF if i get the svs sub)

-A4L has canton chrono’s for a great price but no proper matching center as of now.

any good looking recommendations for wall mounting?
maybe the B-Tech BT77 Ultragrip Pro Speaker Mount?
——————————

AVR:
Important to get first so i can do home auditions on bookshelf’s.
i have no idea an need most help in this area

i’m definitely down to get it from accessories4less refurbished to save $$$
id like more options for space to grow in the future and to power the speakers an much as possible.

-at least 5.2.2 capability
-Audyssey MultEQ tunning app???
-4k/HDR10/dolby vision is very important
-at least 4 hdmi’s minimum
-bluetooth, wifi, apple airplay
-is something like 100+ watt per channel a big benefit?

someone recommend i stick with denon like the DENON AVR-X3300W $430 from accessories4less.
seems like it has a lot of options but i’m a complete noob so who knows.
———————
Center:
honestly whatever is the matching class/brand as the bookshelf’s listed above

also don’t mind at all to wait on this, quality bookshelf’s and avr are most important followed by sub
——————————-
Sub:
19.5” depth issues
-svs pb-1000
-svs sb-2000
-Monolith 10
-VTF-1 MK3(this is only if i get the hybrid 1 - 3.1 package)

sub will be left side of the tv (unfortunately facing the end of another couch 2 feet away

-don’t want it deeper then 19”ish.

honestly i know it’s a large room and should get at least 1-2 pb-2000 but thats too large for now.
i watched the video by svs on ported vs sealed an it made me feel better about going sealed but i know ported may be better for me and movies.

Questions:
-q1) someone told me just to get 2 active studio monitors and a sub??
like the yamaha hs8 studio monitor
he tells me it’s way better and way cheaper cuz i won’t need an AVR and it’s a much better quality sound and range capability?

-q2) if so what to control/tune/eq? aside from an expensive avr

-q3) if that’s a good option then can u do zones like 5.1 with a proper controller?


apologies for the long post but i’ve been spending 3-4 hours a day reading up about so much audio information in so many categories while taking care of the kids it’s just a lot to take in.

thank you so so much for any help you would like to offer

Mike
SW Floridahttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6413e4680d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...5c6af2124e.jpg

Accessories4less is a great resource to save money, but their return policy isn't very favourable. You can use Crutchfield's speaker compare app to listen to Kef and other speakers similarly priced. Best buy magnolia is another option.
https://www.crutchfield.com/speakercompare/

The Denon X3400 was a good choice for the money. You'll get Their best version of room correction (audyssey XT32) dual sub eq, pre-outs and loads of features. I use the B-tech mounts for my Kef Q100 and they work great. Tight grip on the speakers and easy to install.

For the sub, I'd go with the Monolith 10 given your size constraints. Strong amp, good output levels and good accuracy. Going with a ported sub maybe better suited to your needs with most usage being movies and TV. You can always add a 2nd later.

gajCA 05-24-2019 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbfastback (Post 58089810)

Mike
SW Florida

At this very moment Mike I think the closeout RSL systems, (identical to the new versions, aesthetics only are the difference), which are front ported speakers and a relatively powerful compact front ported sub are the best bang for buck out there.

$899 gets you a 3.1 system with free returns if not happy with any part of the system or the whole system.

$1199 for the full 5.1 system, add $400 for a second sub if you think you need it later.

https://rslspeakers.com/cg3-overview/#closeout-products

Sub size: Dimensions: H: 16” W: 15” D: 16 3/4”. Wireless version available for $50 more.

Kini62 05-24-2019 02:24 PM

NHT SuperOne 2.1 are less than $100 on Amazon. Just upgrade my BR setup to a pair from the SuperZero 2.0. Nice improvement. Even in a large room (2500 cubic ft) they have enough bass to get by without a sub, but like most BS speakers they benefit from having one.

Three across the front for <$300 is a great deal.

The RSL CG3 line is great but the lack of bass kept me from wanting to use them for music. I just didn't like how high I had to have the LP on my sub with the SZs. It sounds much more seamless with the LP set to around 70hz.

motrek 05-24-2019 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbfastback (Post 58091578)
i just ordered the Denon AVR-X3400H new

i know it was a little more $ but i want to plan ahead.

payed 499 shipped new
...

BTW, I know you already decided on this, but you don't actually have to send any video through the receiver to the TV. If your TV has enough HDMI inputs, you can just use the TV to switch between inputs, and just connect the receiver to the TV (via the HDMI ARC connection) to handle the audio. That way you don't have to worry one iota about what kind of video stuff the receiver supports.

So if you just want a nice receiver that supports Bluetooth and AirPlay, you should be able to set yourself up nicely for ~$250 instead of $500.

motrek 05-24-2019 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modenacart (Post 58092460)
Depending on how patient you are, slickdeals.net is a great site to find deals on receivers and speakers. I was able to get a denon x4500h for $599. It took a lot of patients and some luck though.

I recommend you listen to any speakers you are interested in if you can.

There is also a great thread on the science behind what people like in speakers and Dr Toole participates if you are inclined to understand more about that. He stated that the Yamaha hs8 is worth checking out based on the measurements.

A video by Dr Toole if you are interested. ...

Thanks to the link to the Dr. Toole presentation. I've seen bits of this information around the web but never combined and presented like this.

This research is one reason why I mainly consider speakers from Harman brands. Ascend Acoustics also publishes a lot of on- and off-axis measurements of their speakers. It's not a spin-o-rama graph but it's in that direction. Stereophile also publishes some good data for the speakers they review.

Dr. Toole makes a good point about active speakers. It's weird that it's 2019 and we still have passive speakers with crossovers made with analog components. Digital crossovers can literally be perfect and are easy to implement, plus they can time-align the drivers no problem, which is kind of cool, and also do bass boosting if there's driver excursion (and amplifier) headroom. But they're hard to integrate into a home theater setup.

Maybe the industry needs a standard connector/protocol so that plugging an active digital speaker into a home theater receiver is as easy as plugging in an analog speaker...

rbfastback 05-24-2019 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cocrh (Post 58091588)
Check out RSL packages. Nice speakers and look good.



https://rslspeakers.com/cg3-overview/



Packages at the bottom of the page.


thank you for the link and advice!
definitely some good deals, i’m going to have to look into those.

seems like they have a good following tho.

Quote:

Originally Posted by motrek (Post 58091762)
Infinity Reference speakers (e.g., R162 bookshelf speakers) get universal praise. They also tend to go on sale for 30-50% off once in a while. Looks like you can get a manufacturer-refurbished pair for $175 right now if you want to go that route. Harman (parent company) does great work and it seems like the Infinitys are really downmarket Revels--not a bad thing to be.



I own a pair of Ascend CBM-170s. They are spectacular but they can sound a little thin. For a space as big as yours, you would be leaning heavily on your subwoofer(s).



The KEF Q350s measure great (check out the recent Stereophile review) but people seem to think they lack bass vs. their competition. Might as well go with the Ascends IMO.



Other notes re: your post:

- You might want to put the sub in the corner for boundary reinforcement. Locating it in the middle of a wall can result in acoustical weirdness. But who knows. Subwoofers can be tricky.

- If you place the bookshelf speakers to the left and right of the TV (where the decorative cabinets are now) then you shouldn't need a center channel. It'd be as if you had one really wide center channel speaker.



so even going with a sub to fill in the lower end u think the ascend’s are a better all around speaker?

amateur question but is “thin” mean light in the bass in a way?

thank you for the advice!

Quote:

Originally Posted by modenacart (Post 58092460)
Depending on how patient you are, slickdeals.net is a great site to find deals on receivers and speakers. I was able to get a denon x4500h for $599. It took a lot of patients and some luck though.

I recommend you listen to any speakers you are interested in if you can.

There is also a great thread on the science behind what people like in speakers and Dr Toole participates if you are inclined to understand more about that. He stated that the Yamaha hs8 is worth checking out based on the measurements.

A video by Dr Toole if you are interested. https://youtu.be/zrpUDuUtxPM



-To be an audiophile you must abandon all research and science.



wow that’s a great price for the x4500!!!

and yes an soon as i get a chance BB actually has a good amount of speakers and a few subs i’m looking at, the others i may do the crutchfield $10 return to test them out.

i’m gonna watch the dr toole video in a few, i’m really likening this forum/hobby

Quote:

Originally Posted by WLDock (Post 58093380)
I was going to suggest the Onkyo TX-RZ830 on sale for $500 at Ass.4Less but that Denon is cool.

https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ver-new/1.html



For speakers, check the reviews then head to your local dealer, Best Buy to check out the Polk Audio Signature S20 bookies and the S30 center. Can get the S20 for $209 refurb and the S30 for $159 refurb direct from Polk.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Polk-Audio-...frcectupt=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Polk-Audio-...frcectupt=true



FEEDBACK

http://soundadvicenews.com/2018/03/3...eakers-review/





https://blog.son-video.com/en/2018/0...olk-audio-s20/









You'll have $632 left over. Then, get the space saving SVS PC-2000 cylinder 12" ported sub for $679 shipped! Don't worry about the kids, it's a 16.6" diameter 50 lbs beast. Its solid and they won't knock it over. You have to teach kids boundaries and to stay away from things else they will try to climb up to the top of your entertainment center. Anyway, I taught my kids early and never had any real issues besides small toys in the VCR and DVD player. As parents we have no choice but to keep an eye on them at all times!

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...-2000&_sacat=0



Picture of the Polk Signature bookies and the SVS PC-2000

https://i.imgur.com/emzdYBV.jpg



https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/08...g?v=1529026533



https://powerreviews.s3.amazonaws.co...95008_full.jpg


wow i really appoyou taking to time to put all that together

you absolutely 100% sold me on the svs pc-2000, i’m ordering that tonight or tm for sure..it’s perfect
do you maintain the svs warranty with ebay sales? it says it’s an authorized dealer on the one i’m looking at but ebay always makes me nervous.

i guess i got excited about the denon when i saw it, read reviews/ comparisons to other companies and figured i couldn’t go wrong.
it is 15watt lower per channel tho but i have no idea if that’s a big deal or not

i can’t wait to try out the polk too, i’m going to add them to my list for sure for price and review/following

and yes you are definitely right about the kids, my 11 and 3 year old are well trained and respectful, but the twins are just so young they are still in “training”.
they are getting better but at 1.5 i’m just worried cuz with all 3 young ones it can be a lot to keep track of them.
that’s what the gate is for and it will go right around the audio so it will be fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pase22 (Post 58093522)
Accessories4less is a great resource to save money, but their return policy isn't very favourable. You can use Crutchfield's speaker compare app to listen to Kef and other speakers similarly priced. Best buy magnolia is another option.

https://www.crutchfield.com/speakercompare/



The Denon X3400 was a good choice for the money. You'll get Their best version of room correction (audyssey XT32) dual sub eq, pre-outs and loads of features. I use the B-tech mounts for my Kef Q100 and they work great. Tight grip on the speakers and easy to install.



For the sub, I'd go with the Monolith 10 given your size constraints. Strong amp, good output levels and good accuracy. Going with a ported sub maybe better suited to your needs with most usage being movies and TV. You can always add a 2nd later.


thank you, i think i’ll be happy with it too considering the following has.

glad to hear u like the b-tech mounts too.

yeah i think ported also from what i’ve read.

i think the svs pc-2000 with be perfect


Quote:

Originally Posted by motrek (Post 58094840)
BTW, I know you already decided on this, but you don't actually have to send any video through the receiver to the TV. If your TV has enough HDMI inputs, you can just use the TV to switch between inputs, and just connect the receiver to the TV (via the HDMI ARC connection) to handle the audio. That way you don't have to worry one iota about what kind of video stuff the receiver supports.



So if you just want a nice receiver that supports Bluetooth and AirPlay, you should be able to set yourself up nicely for ~$250 instead of $500.


that’s great i didn’t really think of that, now i am looking forward to having extra hdmi’s to since right now my tv’s 4 are not enough for all the gaming consoles and other gear but i always assumed that if i wanted my consoles or dvd player to utilize the system it would have to run through it.
honestly tho im gonna stick with the x3400 tho and take another couple weeks to finish building the system

Quote:

Originally Posted by motrek (Post 58094902)
Thanks to the link to the Dr. Toole presentation. I've seen bits of this information around the web but never combined and presented like this.



This research is one reason why I mainly consider speakers from Harman brands. Ascend Acoustics also publishes a lot of on- and off-axis measurements of their speakers. It's not a spin-o-rama graph but it's in that direction. Stereophile also publishes some good data for the speakers they review.



Dr. Toole makes a good point about active speakers. It's weird that it's 2019 and we still have passive speakers with crossovers made with analog components. Digital crossovers can literally be perfect and are easy to implement, plus they can time-align the drivers no problem, which is kind of cool, and also do bass boosting if there's driver excursion (and amplifier) headroom. But they're hard to integrate into a home theater setup.



Maybe the industry needs a standard connector/protocol so that plugging an active digital speaker into a home theater receiver is as easy as plugging in an analog speaker...


question about the active studio speakers tho and the denon avr:
can you plug in active speakers to the red/white location where it has the front center rear and sub? or is that completely wrong?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0fa8f97b16.jpg

motrek 05-24-2019 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbfastback (Post 58095940)
...
so even going with a sub to fill in the lower end u think the ascend’s are a better all around speaker?

amateur question but is “thin” mean light in the bass in a way?

thank you for the advice!

Yes, I suppose I did mean that the CBM-170s are light on bass. They definitely don't have a fake midbass hump that some bookshelf speakers have to try to trick you into thinking they put out a lot of bass. I used to use them as my only speakers in a small apartment and they were brilliant, but I moved into a much larger space and they just couldn't fill it.

I bought a nice subwoofer, but my home is a weird shape and there were all sorts of modes and nulls and resonances with the subwoofer and it sounded like crap. With my furniture the way it is, there was only really one place to put the subwoofer, so maybe if I had been able to move it around it would have sounded really good. Dunno.

I ended up going with a pair of Infinity Reference R253 tower speakers (no subwoofer) and they're very good.

Anyway, it sounds like you ordered that enormous SVS subwoofer... assuming you can get it to integrate well with your space (and I think it'll probably work well if you put it in that corner) then I would definitely audition the Ascends. They really do sound kind of amazing. I could go on and on about them, but basically they're great. Back when I was using them for my TV in my apartment, I would have people over to watch movies, and a lot of people were blown away at how good they sounded (both audiophiles and also people who didn't care one bit about audio). I still use them for my computer in my office BTW.

motrek 05-24-2019 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbfastback (Post 58095940)
...
question about the active studio speakers tho and the denon avr:
can you plug in active speakers to the red/white location where it has the front center rear and sub? or is that completely wrong? ...

Huh that's a good question. I've never seen preouts for mains like that on a receiver. Probably, I guess. Although I'm not sure it would be great, since whatever DSP processing an active monitor does will add some delay, so your speakers might not sync up... :/

Oh yeah, also, 15 WPC doesn't matter for a receiver. I think you have to double watts to get twice the perceived volume or something like that. 15W isn't close to doubling anything. :)

rbfastback 05-24-2019 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motrek (Post 58096006)
Yes, I suppose I did mean that the CBM-170s are light on bass. They definitely don't have a fake midbass hump that some bookshelf speakers have to try to trick you into thinking they put out a lot of bass. I used to use them as my only speakers in a small apartment and they were brilliant, but I moved into a much larger space and they just couldn't fill it.



I bought a nice subwoofer, but my home is a weird shape and there were all sorts of modes and nulls and resonances with the subwoofer and it sounded like crap. With my furniture the way it is, there was only really one place to put the subwoofer, so maybe if I had been able to move it around it would have sounded really good. Dunno.



I ended up going with a pair of Infinity Reference R253 tower speakers (no subwoofer) and they're very good.



Anyway, it sounds like you ordered that enormous SVS subwoofer... assuming you can get it to integrate well with your space (and I think it'll probably work well if you put it in that corner) then I would definitely audition the Ascends. They really do sound kind of amazing. I could go on and on about them, but basically they're great. Back when I was using them for my TV in my apartment, I would have people over to watch movies, and a lot of people were blown away at how good they sounded (both audiophiles and also people who didn't care one bit about audio). I still use them for my computer in my office BTW.



yeah i dont think i’d mind thin at all then especially since ill have a sub, if no sub that maybe not but clarity for vocals is very important cuz i usually have a problem with that on the regular personally.

will see about sub location but it may have to go left of the tv just for now anyway till the time comes to ditch the kids toys in the corner lol i can’t now tho.

no matter what it will be better then my ****ty tv speakers with no sub.

i didn’t order the svs pc2000 yet but i’m planning to, they have a great return policy and i don’t mind how tall it is as all just like the small dimensions around.
and a big plus down firing (for now cuz it’s super safe with kids) so it seems perfect for my current situation

rbfastback 05-24-2019 11:46 PM

HT System advice for $1500 budget with questions
 
ok so a small update

-AVR (already got):
Denon AVR-X3400H for $499 shipped

-SUB (getting this weekend)
SVS PC-2000
small footprint, down firing is much more kid friendly and still a powerful 12” ported sub with a great warranty and customer service, also a great exchange policy.

-BOOKSHELVES:
(added to the main list)
-polk audio signature series

•removed from list:
-HSU HB-1 mk2 and hsu package
-monitor audio bronze 2
-Q-150
-hard level three

so basically i’m going to start at best buy possibly tues or wed then order the others if i feel i need more choices, really want to hear the q350’s, polk SS and the ascend’s


current bookshelf list is:
(and matching center)

-KEF Q-350 (really pushing it since the center is sooo $$$)
-Ascend CBM-170 se
-polk audio signature series
-svs prime

maybe
-NHT SuperOne 2.1
-RSL CG3


id like to not add anything else unless someone has a strong reason that i should put something back on again

motrek 05-25-2019 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbfastback (Post 58096012)
yeah i dont think i’d mind thin at all then especially since ill have a sub, if no sub that maybe not but clarity for vocals is very important cuz i usually have a problem with that on the regular personally.

will see about sub location but it may have to go left of the tv just for now anyway till the time comes to ditch the kids toys in the corner lol i can’t now tho.

no matter what it will be better then my ****ty tv speakers with no sub. ...

Oh boy, if you're going to compare a nice bookshelf 2.0 system to some TV speakers, you're in for a treat. I wish I was you. (BTW, even the Ascends will wreck the TV in terms of bass output.)

If clarity is important, you might want to move the Ascends up on your list. They are insane clear. If you look up some reviews on these forums, I believe at least two people have tried doing ABX testing with CBM-170s vs. other well-regarded speakers and they were able to distinguish between MP3 bitrates much better on the Ascends vs. the competition. That's not an easy thing to do on any speaker, but you can do it with the Ascends.

Also check out Aphex Twin, the album Drukqs, track 2, song title Vordhosbn. The CBM-170 SE is the only speaker I've ever heard that I feel like could keep up with this song. Every other sound system (including my Infinity towers) sounds to me like it struggles in comparison...

rbfastback 05-25-2019 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motrek (Post 58096162)
Oh boy, if you're going to compare a nice bookshelf 2.0 system to some TV speakers, you're in for a treat. I wish I was you. (BTW, even the Ascends will wreck the TV in terms of bass output.)



If clarity is important, you might want to move the Ascends up on your list. They are insane clear. If you look up some reviews on these forums, I believe at least two people have tried doing ABX testing with CBM-170s vs. other well-regarded speakers and they were able to distinguish between MP3 bitrates much better on the Ascends vs. the competition. That's not an easy thing to do on any speaker, but you can do it with the Ascends.



Also check out Aphex Twin, the album Drukqs, track 2, song title Vordhosbn. The CBM-170 SE is the only speaker I've ever heard that I feel like could keep up with this song. Every other sound system (including my Infinity towers) sounds to me like it struggles in comparison...



first of all just knowing/liking Aphex twin you moved up on my list of cool ppl...i also think that he is die antwoord’s dj hi tek/god

yah i absolutely can’t wait to get the system but i’m trying to take is slow an learn a bit first.

the Ascends, q350 and polk as are definitely in my top interest.

-wouldn’t the polk ss be a level under the ascend and kef’s??
but just be a really great speaker for their own price range?

i don’t mind going over budget a little to get a better end result. i know that can be a slippery slope tho, i’m sure every $50-$75 there is a “BETTER” speaker out there tho...

modenacart 05-25-2019 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbfastback (Post 58095940)
thank you for the link and advice!
definitely some good deals, i’m going to have to look into those.

seems like they have a good following tho.





so even going with a sub to fill in the lower end u think the ascend’s are a better all around speaker?

amateur question but is “thin” mean light in the bass in a way?

thank you for the advice!





wow that’s a great price for the x4500!!!

and yes an soon as i get a chance BB actually has a good amount of speakers and a few subs i’m looking at, the others i may do the crutchfield $10 return to test them out.

i’m gonna watch the dr toole video in a few, i’m really likening this forum/hobby




wow i really appoyou taking to time to put all that together

you absolutely 100% sold me on the svs pc-2000, i’m ordering that tonight or tm for sure..it’s perfect
do you maintain the svs warranty with ebay sales? it says it’s an authorized dealer on the one i’m looking at but ebay always makes me nervous.

i guess i got excited about the denon when i saw it, read reviews/ comparisons to other companies and figured i couldn’t go wrong.
it is 15watt lower per channel tho but i have no idea if that’s a big deal or not

i can’t wait to try out the polk too, i’m going to add them to my list for sure for price and review/following

and yes you are definitely right about the kids, my 11 and 3 year old are well trained and respectful, but the twins are just so young they are still in “training”.
they are getting better but at 1.5 i’m just worried cuz with all 3 young ones it can be a lot to keep track of them.
that’s what the gate is for and it will go right around the audio so it will be fine.




thank you, i think i’ll be happy with it too considering the following has.

glad to hear u like the b-tech mounts too.

yeah i think ported also from what i’ve read.

i think the svs pc-2000 with be perfect





that’s great i didn’t really think of that, now i am looking forward to having extra hdmi’s to since right now my tv’s 4 are not enough for all the gaming consoles and other gear but i always assumed that if i wanted my consoles or dvd player to utilize the system it would have to run through it.
honestly tho im gonna stick with the x3400 tho and take another couple weeks to finish building the system




question about the active studio speakers tho and the denon avr:
can you plug in active speakers to the red/white location where it has the front center rear and sub? or is that completely wrong?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0fa8f97b16.jpg



Svs is having a sale. Some of the prices seem to still be valid even though the deal is marked expired.

https://slickdeals.net/share/iphone_app/fp/473869



-To be an audiophile you must abandon all research and science.

rbfastback 05-25-2019 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modenacart (Post 58096572)
Svs is having a sale. Some of the prices seem to still be valid even though the deal is marked expired.

https://slickdeals.net/share/iphone_app/fp/473869



-To be an audiophile you must abandon all research and science.


thank you,
just checked it out an it seems it’s not all available anymore but either way right now they don’t have anything that would work for me for size

rbfastback 05-25-2019 06:47 AM

i added back svs prime to the list too...even tho i like the kef better for the same price range,

they have great WAF tho over the ascend and kef tho

modenacart 05-25-2019 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbfastback (Post 58096630)
i added back svs prime to the list too...even tho i like the kef better for the same price range,

they have great WAF tho over the ascend and kef tho



I love my KEF speakers. They are a good choice.


-To be an audiophile you must abandon all research and science.

motrek 05-25-2019 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbfastback (Post 58096496)
first of all just knowing/liking Aphex twin you moved up on my list of cool ppl...i also think that he is die antwoord’s dj hi tek/god

yah i absolutely can’t wait to get the system but i’m trying to take is slow an learn a bit first.

the Ascends, q350 and polk as are definitely in my top interest.

-wouldn’t the polk ss be a level under the ascend and kef’s??
but just be a really great speaker for their own price range?

i don’t mind going over budget a little to get a better end result. i know that can be a slippery slope tho, i’m sure every $50-$75 there is a “BETTER” speaker out there tho...

A friend clued me into Aphex Twin a long time ago, I don't usually listen to that genre but I'll check out Die Antwoord, thanks. :)

The Polk Signature speakers seem to be pretty good. I like this guy's reviews:

http://averagejoeaudiophile.blogspot...p-edition.html

Speaker quality doesn't correlate very well with price. Check out that Floyd Toole presentation. There are a lot of expensive speakers that are worse than much cheaper speakers. It's basically impossible to know what's marketing hype (or hype in the community caused by marketing) and what isn't. That's why I would be more interested in trying out the Infinity Reference R162s before the Polks, I know that Harman/Infinity had the right design goals (supported by their research and testing). Also, the Infinitys look similar to Revels and might share some design and engineering with them.

modenacart 05-25-2019 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbfastback (Post 58096614)
thank you,
just checked it out an it seems it’s not all available anymore but either way right now they don’t have anything that would work for me for size


I would consider HSU Reasearch subs too. I really like mine.



-To be an audiophile you must abandon all research and science.

gajCA 05-25-2019 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbfastback (Post 58096016)
-KEF Q-350 (really pushing it since the center is sooo $$$)
-Ascend CBM-170 se
-polk audio signature series
-svs prime

maybe
-NHT SuperOne 2.1
-RSL CG3


id like to not add anything else unless someone has a strong reason that i should put something back on again

KEF and Polk bookshelves available at Crutchfield with just $10/box returns within 60 days.

WLDock 05-25-2019 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motrek (Post 58096682)
The Polk Signature speakers seem to be pretty good. I like this guy's reviews:

http://averagejoeaudiophile.blogspot...p-edition.html

Great review, The Polk Sigs have surprised many, especially the budget S15, S20 bookies. Can go toe to toe with others in the price range. Plus the super cheap refurb price direct from Polk makes them a good value if one is one a tight budget.


Quote:

Polk Signature Series S15 - and honest +/- 3db speaker for 70hz to 19khz.
Port looks like it is tuned to about 70hz. Not particularly low for a 5.25 inch speaker. However in listening tests, where the speakers were 5+ feet away from a rear wall, indicated it can get plenty low for just about any music. Lower than the Klipsch often could. Perhaps an effect of the Power Port design? Searching seems to indicate that you are able to achieve similar tunings with shorter port lengths. Comparing them to the now discontinued Infinity Primus line of bookshelf speaker, which were all also ported in the 70 to 80 hz range, these manage to play much deeper.

rbfastback 05-25-2019 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motrek (Post 58096682)
A friend clued me into Aphex Twin a long time ago, I don't usually listen to that genre but I'll check out Die Antwoord, thanks. :)



The Polk Signature speakers seem to be pretty good. I like this guy's reviews:



http://averagejoeaudiophile.blogspot...p-edition.html



Speaker quality doesn't correlate very well with price. Check out that Floyd Toole presentation. There are a lot of expensive speakers that are worse than much cheaper speakers. It's basically impossible to know what's marketing hype (or hype in the community caused by marketing) and what isn't. That's why I would be more interested in trying out the Infinity Reference R162s before the Polks, I know that Harman/Infinity had the right design goals (supported by their research and testing). Also, the Infinitys look similar to Revels and might share some design and engineering with them.



the dj who makes the tracks for die antwoord has been a mystery since they came out.. every video is a different random person and it’s a secret who he really is. they just call him hi tek or god

strange south African electronic rap/ party music

also great info!
i started to watch the video last night at 2am then saw it was an hour so maybe tonight or tm

also i’m going to look into the infiniti ref’s tonight too


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