Help me choose a speaker setup - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 18 Old 06-04-2019, 10:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Cool Help me choose a speaker setup



My dilemma is the oldest one in the book. I love large speakers. Big monster towers make me happy. The above photo is my family room. (Excuse the mess and wires, it is still being completed. ) If I had my way, there would be big bad tower speakers on the left and right. But my wife seems to think this is not acceptable. She says I already have those speakers in my HIFI room (which is true). But I have full permission to do anything that doesn't involve putting speakers on the floor. The end will be, most likely, a 5.2 setup.

You will see in the picture the black sections on the lower left and lower right (it is black speaker-grill fabric). This is where I anticipate putting a pair of front firing subs. If ported, I would think front ported would be the way to go.

So where to put my left and right channels? Using my finely honed Microsoft Paint skills, I have drawn in where I think I can put some speakers. I would just remove the glass doors and shelving and put them in there. I could basically get the biggest bookshelf speakers that I can find into there. BUT- I have concerns about acoustics. Please correct me if I am wrong here, but I would think I want NO interaction between the speaker and the shelving it is inside of. Therefore, I would think that I would want the drivers all the way up to the front edge. I also think that I would want no ports aiming back inside of there, or else I would think it would get muddy and terrible in a hurry.

I am looking for broad advice here- any thoughts are welcome. Size/brand/style are all in play right now. I just don't want to spend big bucks and have a nasty sounding set up when it is complete.
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post #2 of 18 Old 06-04-2019, 10:53 AM
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Correct on placing speakers as far forward as possible. Rear ports are not the end of the world, if there is room around the speakers, particularly behind. So maybe consider not filling the space entirely. There are some great sounding bookshelfs out there.
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post #3 of 18 Old 06-04-2019, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks- I should mention that the space I am showing putting them into is pretty deep (gotta be at least 2.5 feet).

I'm just very worried as I know how much speaker placement means- it frankly means more than the speakers themselves.

I have a pair of JBL powered monitors I bought new for like $150 each, and because they are in a tiny little room with my computer they absolutely pound and resolve lower frequencies beautifully. Open floorplan family rooms are not a good start. Ugh. I wish houses would go back to separate rooms. The acoustic situation is unfortunate.
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post #4 of 18 Old 06-04-2019, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Julian View Post


My dilemma is the oldest one in the book. I love large speakers. Big monster towers make me happy. The above photo is my family room. (Excuse the mess and wires, it is still being completed. ) If I had my way, there would be big bad tower speakers on the left and right. But my wife seems to think this is not acceptable. She says I already have those speakers in my HIFI room (which is true). But I have full permission to do anything that doesn't involve putting speakers on the floor. The end will be, most likely, a 5.2 setup.

You will see in the picture the black sections on the lower left and lower right (it is black speaker-grill fabric). This is where I anticipate putting a pair of front firing subs. If ported, I would think front ported would be the way to go.

So where to put my left and right channels? Using my finely honed Microsoft Paint skills, I have drawn in where I think I can put some speakers. I would just remove the glass doors and shelving and put them in there. I could basically get the biggest bookshelf speakers that I can find into there. BUT- I have concerns about acoustics. Please correct me if I am wrong here, but I would think I want NO interaction between the speaker and the shelving it is inside of. Therefore, I would think that I would want the drivers all the way up to the front edge. I also think that I would want no ports aiming back inside of there, or else I would think it would get muddy and terrible in a hurry.

I am looking for broad advice here- any thoughts are welcome. Size/brand/style are all in play right now. I just don't want to spend big bucks and have a nasty sounding set up when it is complete.
While not most ideal, if putting the speakers in there is your only option, you could put some books or acoustic foam around the enclosure. If you're adding 2 subs having rear ported speakers isn't really going to be an issue since the port mostly comes into play below 80-90hz. Have you been to Best buy or local audio shops to listen to any speakers? We'll also need to know your max budget and any components you already own or ordered in order to make appropriate recommendations.
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post #5 of 18 Old 06-04-2019, 11:06 AM
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there are several brands that offer speakers without ports at all (nht being one).. that really might be a nice option...
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post #6 of 18 Old 06-04-2019, 11:15 AM
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What’s your budget?

Something like this would be fantastic, it’s sealed and won’t cause issue in the cabinet: https://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/mtm-210

You like big and this is a substantial speaker with 10” drivers. You get a loud and dynamic mini tower to fit in your cabinet.
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post #7 of 18 Old 06-04-2019, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
While not most ideal, if putting the speakers in there is your only option, you could put some books or acoustic foam around the enclosure. If you're adding 2 subs having rear ported speakers isn't really going to be an issue since the port mostly comes into play below 80-90hz. Have you been to Best buy or local audio shops to listen to any speakers? We'll also need to know your max budget and any components you already own or ordered in order to make appropriate recommendations.
Good questions. For tones, I like my speakers mostly balanced, but I suppose I have a bit of lingering immaturity when it comes to bass- dry sounding is no bueno. My 2-channel setup is close to being to my liking- I have a pair of Usher CP6311s, an REL Stadium III sub. Using an integrated amp- Cayin KT88 (tube). I very much like the sound I'm getting, and I am convinced that when I build a retractable wall to close off the open end of that room, it will REALLY shine (someday).

There is a HIFI shop somewhat local to me (1 hour drive) with an oldtimer who will let me listen to a lot of things. I plan to go there once I have some basic ideas about how to set this up and listen to some things. He got me on the right track with the 2 channel setup years ago. Hopefully hes still in business.

As for budget, that is somewhat in flux depending on what it will take to get it right. As you can see from my present equipment, I've avoided the home theater world for some time. Why? Because dealing with things like changing surround sound tech, firmware updates, obsolete HDMI cables and whatnot makes me angry. I know when I turn on my tube amp and record player, it will play music instead of prompting me to reboot and connect the update dongle or whatever. Ugh. But I guess I am diving in finally.

I will be buying a receiver new. Been thinking about an NAD due to their offering upgrade modules supposedly. But that is just a first blush guess. Lets say for receiver something like 2-3k? I dunno. I know another option is getting a badass separate amp and then just getting a pre-pro.

For speakers, I obviously need at least 5. I know there is all this atmos stuff, and also the 7 channel stuff, but I'm not convinced that I want to try that. For 5 decent speakers, does $3k work? One thing that would be nice would be getting the wood matched to the built-in.

Subs I have no idea. I'll probably try looking used there, as even if they are chipped up it won't matter to me, as they are going to be behind those screens anyhow. I got a heck of a deal on the REL I have (bought it used).
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post #8 of 18 Old 06-04-2019, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
What’s your budget?

Something like this would be fantastic, it’s sealed and won’t cause issue in the cabinet: https://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/mtm-210

You like big and this is a substantial speaker with 10” drivers. You get a loud and dynamic mini tower to fit in your cabinet.
Oooh.... 2 10s. That is sexy for sure! Nice suggestion!
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post #9 of 18 Old 06-04-2019, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Mister Julian View Post
Good questions. For tones, I like my speakers mostly balanced, but I suppose I have a bit of lingering immaturity when it comes to bass- dry sounding is no bueno. My 2-channel setup is close to being to my liking- I have a pair of Usher CP6311s, an REL Stadium III sub. Using an integrated amp- Cayin KT88 (tube). I very much like the sound I'm getting, and I am convinced that when I build a retractable wall to close off the open end of that room, it will REALLY shine (someday).

There is a HIFI shop somewhat local to me (1 hour drive) with an oldtimer who will let me listen to a lot of things. I plan to go there once I have some basic ideas about how to set this up and listen to some things. He got me on the right track with the 2 channel setup years ago. Hopefully hes still in business.

As for budget, that is somewhat in flux depending on what it will take to get it right. As you can see from my present equipment, I've avoided the home theater world for some time. Why? Because dealing with things like changing surround sound tech, firmware updates, obsolete HDMI cables and whatnot makes me angry. I know when I turn on my tube amp and record player, it will play music instead of prompting me to reboot and connect the update dongle or whatever. Ugh. But I guess I am diving in finally.

I will be buying a receiver new. Been thinking about an NAD due to their offering upgrade modules supposedly. But that is just a first blush guess. Lets say for receiver something like 2-3k? I dunno. I know another option is getting a badass separate amp and then just getting a pre-pro.

For speakers, I obviously need at least 5. I know there is all this atmos stuff, and also the 7 channel stuff, but I'm not convinced that I want to try that. For 5 decent speakers, does $3k work? One thing that would be nice would be getting the wood matched to the built-in.

Subs I have no idea. I'll probably try looking used there, as even if they are chipped up it won't matter to me, as they are going to be behind those screens anyhow. I got a heck of a deal on the REL I have (bought it used).
On the low end of the budget, HSU HB-1MK2 and higher up the line Paradigm Prestige 15B would closely match your cabinet.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/hb-1.html

Picture on the Paradigm website kinda sucks so here's a better one.
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post #10 of 18 Old 06-04-2019, 11:59 AM
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Well, if you are going to have a turntable on the same piece of furniture, you may want to consider curbing your bass fetish. If you have large speakers on the bookcase, right next to the turntable, odds are pretty good that the bass will transfer from the speaker to the wood and back to the tonearm, where you will get some negative effects. You should consider using a lot of resonance-dampening on the underside of the speaker and the turntable, to dissipate this effect.

Same for the subs. If they are going to be sitting on a shelf, odds are excellent that the resonance will propagate throughout the wood structure. You could lessen this effect, somewhat, by having the subs sitting on the floor, instead of on a shelf, or better yet on a subdude or a piece of thick marble (or any heavy stone) on rubber feet. Even then, you may have to deal with the actual soundwaves exciting resonance frequencies in the wood or the turntable arm itself.

So, sealed subs might be in order and bookshelf speakers with five or six inch mid-woofs, as opposed to 10" monsters. I think you will find that this is a better approach from a WAF perspective, as well.

As an aside, be sure the rear of the sub area is ventilated. Don't just rely on convection through the material.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

Last edited by RayGuy; 06-04-2019 at 12:02 PM.
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post #11 of 18 Old 06-04-2019, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, if you are going to have a turntable on the same piece of furniture, you may want to consider curbing your bass fetish. If you have large speakers on the bookcase, right next to the turntable, odds are pretty good that the bass will transfer from the speaker to the wood and back to the tonearm, where you will get some negative effects. You should consider using a lot of resonance-dampening on the underside of the speaker and the turntable, to dissipate this effect.

Same for the subs. If they are going to be sitting on a shelf, odds are excellent that the resonance will propagate throughout the wood structure. You could lessen this effect, somewhat, by having the subs sitting on the floor, instead of on a shelf, or better yet on a subdude or a piece of thick marble (or any heavy stone). Even then, you may have to deal with the actual soundwaves exciting resonance frequencies in the wood or the turntable arm itself.

So, sealed subs might be in order and bookshelf speakers with five or six inch mid-woofs, as opposed to 10" monsters. I think you will find that this is a better approach from a WAF perspective, as well.

As an aside, be sure the rear of the sub area is ventilated. Don't just rely on convection through the material.
Turntable is staying in the other room with the 2 channel setup. No worries there. Good point on ventilation. I already know that the glass door where the receiver will be is going to get permanently removed. Also, maybe I am overstating my love of the lower end- I don't like boomy awful over-boosted bass. Rather, I find it depressing when the lower end is washed out. If a speaker is going to be colored, I'd rather it be ont he punchy side than the dry side.
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post #12 of 18 Old 06-04-2019, 12:20 PM
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Turntable is staying in the other room with the 2 channel setup. No worries there. Good point on ventilation. I already know that the glass door where the receiver will be is going to get permanently removed. Also, maybe I am overstating my love of the lower end- I don't like boomy awful over-boosted bass. Rather, I find it depressing when the lower end is washed out. If a speaker is going to be colored, I'd rather it be ont he punchy side than the dry side.
Good that the TT is not on that unit. Dodged a bullet there!

As to speakers, lots of options available. For pretty (and good sound) look at Legacy and Sonus Faber. For warm and inviting, look at Totem (also Sonus Faber). For accurate, Dynaudio or Revel. For punchy, Paradigm. There are also more pricey/esoteric options, which I will leave to your good judgment. Some listening sessions are your next move.

As to subs, if music is an important part of the mix, Rythmik is at the top of the list. I prefer sealed, but their (front) ported subs will give you more in the nether regions while still being well controlled. If HT is the focus, then look at the Monolith options. Mono will give you a bit more for HT, while still being good for music. Not sure of your size requirements, but there are enough options in either line to give you a good fit.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

Last edited by RayGuy; 06-06-2019 at 09:35 AM.
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post #13 of 18 Old 06-06-2019, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Anybody have experience with Axiom Audio? Another internet direct option I see. Something like this: https://www.axiomaudio.com/epic-gran...theater-system

EDIT- oops, I see that the system I linked is rear-ported on the mains.

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post #14 of 18 Old 06-07-2019, 08:24 PM
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These NHT C-3 speakers are certainly among the very best bookshelf speakers and are sealed acoustic suspension design (no ports). They would be hard to beat and from Amazon they are $330 each.
Here's a review:


https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/speaker/bookshelf/nht-c3-bookshelf-speaker-review/

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post #15 of 18 Old 06-12-2019, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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So I've been reading and reading, and I'm thinking about giving the Power Sound Audio speakers a try. That said, I am also reading about Dolby Atmos. That didn't exist back in 1997 the last time I did a surround setup (yes, I am dating myself- it was Dolby Pro-Logic). It seems like something I should consider. A couple of questions arise:

1- What would be a good choice of Atmos speaker to blend with the PSA MTM-210s? I believe that "IN-ceiling" won't be viable for me, due to the way my house is constructed. It would need to be ON ceiling.

2- Let's say I want to also use a receiver to drive a pair of outdoor speakers. Would an 11 channel receiver work? In other words, would I be able to run 5.2.4 indoors, and 2 channels outside (on a different source) simultaneously? Something like a Denon AV-X6500H? https://www.crutchfield.com/p_033AVX...VR-X6500H.html

3-If I was to put the MTM210 center channel into a cubby that is just a hair bigger than 28 inches (28 is the quoted width of that speaker) will I be encountering hellish problems, or would I be ok? I'd have the speaker all the way forward so no sound bouncing off of the shelving, and I can put some acoustic foam stuff and/or dynamat in there as needed
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post #16 of 18 Old 06-12-2019, 10:38 AM
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1. On ceiling maybe a commercial speaker like this EV. 90db Sensitivity so not as high as PSA but would work.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_971EVD....html?tp=66304

2. 6500 should work with different zone. Keep an eye on the deals threads. Newegg just has it for 1499.00 but think it is over. Amazon sometimes has it for 1399.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post58157432
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/122-great-found-deals/

3. PSA 210C is sealed so should work fine. Always good to bring it out just a bit further out from the edge maybe 1/4 or 1/2 inch. Add foam if you think there are issues.
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post #17 of 18 Old 06-12-2019, 11:30 AM
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You can save a boatload of money by purchasing a 9 channel receiver with 11 channel processing. Then, just add a stereo amp to drive the outdoor speakers. Something like this:

https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...-w/heos/1.html

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.
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post #18 of 18 Old 06-16-2019, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Julian View Post
So I've been reading and reading, and I'm thinking about giving the Power Sound Audio speakers a try. That said, I am also reading about Dolby Atmos. That didn't exist back in 1997 the last time I did a surround setup (yes, I am dating myself- it was Dolby Pro-Logic). It seems like something I should consider. A couple of questions arise:

1- What would be a good choice of Atmos speaker to blend with the PSA MTM-210s? I believe that "IN-ceiling" won't be viable for me, due to the way my house is constructed. It would need to be ON ceiling.

2- Let's say I want to also use a receiver to drive a pair of outdoor speakers. Would an 11 channel receiver work? In other words, would I be able to run 5.2.4 indoors, and 2 channels outside (on a different source) simultaneously? Something like a Denon AV-X6500H? https://www.crutchfield.com/p_033AVX...VR-X6500H.html

3-If I was to put the MTM210 center channel into a cubby that is just a hair bigger than 28 inches (28 is the quoted width of that speaker) will I be encountering hellish problems, or would I be ok? I'd have the speaker all the way forward so no sound bouncing off of the shelving, and I can put some acoustic foam stuff and/or dynamat in there as needed
Talk to Tom V at PSA; he'll steer you in the right direction.

Are you sure the rather industrial look of the PSAs will fly with the spouse?

They are said to be very fine speakers requiring very little in the way of power so a modest 9 channel receiver for 5.2.4 Atmos would be all that is required.

https://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVRX440...=AED492BX4II6G

Perhaps a pair of Monoprice THX sealed subs.

Geoff A. J., California
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