Speaker locations in big room - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 10 Old 06-11-2019, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Question Speaker locations in big room

Hey,

We are renovating a private house that have high ceiling and I need some assistance regard the location of the speakers so we can hear music in all the space of the room (living room and kitchen).
We will use the speakers mainly for music, but also for home cinema.

Illustration of the space:

  • To the left and the right of the TV will be installed in-wall speakers Klipsch PRO-160RPW
  • Above the TV (due to technical constraints) the Center speaker Klipsch RP-640D ON-WALL
  • In the right corner of the room a subwoofer that has not yet decided which model
  • Satellite speakers on the gallery floor (marked with red circles) 2 Cabasse EOLE 3 ball-shaped speakers
  • Sony DN1080 AV receiver

1. Because the space is very large and the main use is music and we also want to hear in the kitchen area, we are debating whether to add two more Satellite speakers, such as the speakers hanging on the gallery floor (Cabasse Eole 3) towards to the kitchen. Do you think this is recommended? worth doing so?

2. If we want to add those 2 speakers, how do we support this in terms of the AV receiver? We wanted to use Zone 2 for the garden speaker and I also saw that the receiver does not support hearing from HDMI port in Zone 2. So how we can also use the additional speakers when we want to hear music in all the space (or only in the kitchen)? Maybe a speaker selector can help?

Any other comments/suggestions regard the speakers and the locations will be appreciated!
Ofri Avizov is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 Old 06-11-2019, 12:46 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
pase22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Montreal,Canada
Posts: 6,613
Mentioned: 78 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2989 Post(s)
Liked: 2484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ofri Avizov View Post
Hey,

We are renovating a private house that have high ceiling and I need some assistance regard the location of the speakers so we can hear music in all the space of the room (living room and kitchen).
We will use the speakers mainly for music, but also for home cinema.

Illustration of the space:

  • To the left and the right of the TV will be installed in-wall speakers Klipsch PRO-160RPW
  • Above the TV (due to technical constraints) the Center speaker Klipsch RP-640D ON-WALL
  • In the right corner of the room a subwoofer that has not yet decided which model
  • Satellite speakers on the gallery floor (marked with red circles) 2 Cabasse EOLE 3 ball-shaped speakers
  • Sony DN1080 AV receiver

1. Because the space is very large and the main use is music and we also want to hear in the kitchen area, we are debating whether to add two more Satellite speakers, such as the speakers hanging on the gallery floor (Cabasse Eole 3) towards to the kitchen. Do you think this is recommended? worth doing so?

2. If we want to add those 2 speakers, how do we support this in terms of the AV receiver? We wanted to use Zone 2 for the garden speaker and I also saw that the receiver does not support hearing from HDMI port in Zone 2. So how we can also use the additional speakers when we want to hear music in all the space (or only in the kitchen)? Maybe a speaker selector can help?

Any other comments/suggestions regard the speakers and the locations will be appreciated!
If it's mostly for music, ditch the center and surrounds and just get higher quality FL/FR speakers. Kef would work well in your situation. The uni-q driver and tangerine waveguide create excellent off axis performance so it'll sound pretty much the same in the kitchen as it will in the living room.

Kef Q100 FL/FR,SL/SR, Q200C, SVS SB-2000, Denon AVR-X3400H, , Panasonic 50" Plasma, Xbox One.
Bedroom: JBL Loft 50 , Loft 20, Bic F-12, Denon AVR-S710W, PS3, 32" Insigna LED.
pase22 is offline  
post #3 of 10 Old 06-11-2019, 05:30 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bluewizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,627
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2248 Post(s)
Liked: 1486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ofri Avizov View Post
Hey,

We are renovating a private house that have high ceiling and I need some assistance regard the location of the speakers so we can hear music in all the space of the room (living room and kitchen).
We will use the speakers mainly for music, but also for home cinema.

Illustration of the space:

  • To the left and the right of the TV will be installed in-wall speakers Klipsch PRO-160RPW
  • Above the TV (due to technical constraints) the Center speaker Klipsch RP-640D ON-WALL
  • In the right corner of the room a subwoofer that has not yet decided which model
  • Satellite speakers on the gallery floor (marked with red circles) 2 Cabasse EOLE 3 ball-shaped speakers
  • Sony DN1080 AV receiver

1. Because the space is very large and the main use is music and we also want to hear in the kitchen area, we are debating whether to add two more Satellite speakers, such as the speakers hanging on the gallery floor (Cabasse Eole 3) towards to the kitchen. Do you think this is recommended? worth doing so?

2. If we want to add those 2 speakers, how do we support this in terms of the AV receiver? We wanted to use Zone 2 for the garden speaker and I also saw that the receiver does not support hearing from HDMI port in Zone 2. So how we can also use the additional speakers when we want to hear music in all the space (or only in the kitchen)? Maybe a speaker selector can help?

Any other comments/suggestions regard the speakers and the locations will be appreciated!
Hard to cut your post down when re-posting.

I would also consider Stereo. That space does not lend itself well to Surrounds. Though not impossible.

It is easy for people to look around their room and picture speakers every where, but the kicker is, how do you get wires to those speakers? The Front/Center are easy enough, but how do you wire the Surround speakers? Though the Ceiling? Through the Floors? Other?

On the right side wall, is that a Fireplace in the center?

What is the long black bar under what I assume is a Fireplace?

Is the part of the breast cut off on the right similar to or identical to the part on the left?

What is the construction? That is are you sure you can cut into it and install In-Wall Speakers?

Also is it possible to shift all the furniture about 3 feet or so to the Left? (relative to the photo) Everything seem cozy for the fireplace, but a bit close for a sound system.

Of the Klipsch I would be more inclined toward the 8" Version -

https://www.klipsch.com/products/pro...n-wall-speaker

Though the 6.5" version would be workable -

https://www.klipsch.com/products/pro...n-wall-speaker

Next where will the TV or projection be? Above what I assume is a fireplace? And as long as it has come up, will it be a TV or a Projector?

65" TV are pretty cheap today, and 70" to 75" are pretty reasonable too.

Some can be $5,000 or $6,000, but remember just a few years ago they were $25,000.

Given how high your (what I assume is a) Fireplace, there are what are called Down-and-Out TV Mounts. Push them up high out of the way when not in use or when in Casual use, and pull it down in front of the fireplace for more serious watching.

Because the fireplace, the bane of all audio, makes placing a Center a bit awkward, do consider stereo.

If the room, relative to the Fireplace, if it is symmetrical, and there is room on each side of the fireplace, my preference would be a floorstanding speaker on each side. It is actually relatively easy to get WHITE speakers now, so they could blend in pretty much seamlessly.

Just a random illustration of a White Speaker -

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/bowers-...?skuId=6290637

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/bowers-...?skuId=6023609

Not a recommendation, though they are very good speakers, just an illustration.

Again, I worry about the construction of the Fireplace area and whether it will actually allow you to add In-Wall Speakers. If the whole thing is brick or stone, then you are in trouble. But if it is a woodframe space surrounding the fireplace insert, then adding speakers shouldn't be a problem.

If music is your primary concern, then I would think seriously about STEREO. Many of us, myself included, watch TV and Movies in Stereo with fine effect. I'm completely satisfied. You can still get great weight and impact from a Stereo. Though those of us who have Stereo still recognize the advantages of Surround Sound, it is about setting priorities, and in your case, getting the full Surround Sound System installed and WIRED.

In my case, despite watching more TV/Movies, my priority is music, so I have a Music system, meaning a Stereo. Though my system is somewhat unusual in that I have Two Amps and Two Pair of Speaker for movies (NO SUBS), I manage some pretty intense movie, I felt bass impact so intense it ruffled my hair.

Again, admittedly I have something of an odd-ball system, but it is fantastic for movie and for music -



Sorry about the Photo quality. And I didn't plan this system this way, these parts just accumulated over time.

Assuming the Kitchen and Dining (or breakfast area) are in the back right corner, I don't think you are going to have a problem hearing the system there. Generally speaking, the more space you have to fill the larger the speakers need to be. If you want to add additional speaker in the kitchen that is up to you. Rather, I would add a main system with Network Streaming, then add a smaller Network Streaming unit it the kitchen. These can act together or separately. That is you can broadcast to both the main system and the kitchen system, or the kitchen system can be independent of the main system.

To some extent we need to know the Budget for the Audio Portion of this project. In addition, some general sense of your plans for the Video portion of the project. You are also going to have to consider where the Audio Equipment is going to be placed relative to your Speakers. That's going to influence where the wires are run, and the type and placement of the connections to be used.

That should do for a start, though I have much more to say. But this should get you started thinking about the possibilities.

Can you find something in all that that is helpful?

Steve/bluewizard

Last edited by bluewizard; 06-11-2019 at 05:54 PM.
bluewizard is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 10 Old 06-11-2019, 05:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bluewizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,627
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2248 Post(s)
Liked: 1486
Here is one of many examples of a Dynamic Down and Out TV Mount -




Just passing it along.

Steve/bluewizard
bluewizard is online now  
post #5 of 10 Old 06-12-2019, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Hi,

Thank you very much for the detailed comment, highly appreciated.
Few things to note in related to your question:
1. In the illustration it's not a fireplace, it's going to be 65" tv screen that I already have (it's a photoshop illustration...).
2. the long black bar under the TV, is not really going to be there, it's going to be above the TV.. it suppose to be the center Klipsch RP-640D ON-WALL
3. It's fully renovated house, so we already prepared wires that goes to the back part so I can hang the surround speakers..
4. We prepared place for 2 in-wall speakers to the right and the left of the TV (the illustration is cut, so not possible to see right to the TV, but there is some space of wall there), but there is only space for 6.5".


In regard to have only 2 stereo speakers.
Even though music is the main usage, we still watch movies sometime and we want the real surround effect, so we would really want the surround speakers.

Based on your reply, I understand that there shouldn't be a problem enjoy the music in other areas like the kitchen.. so I think we should stay with only 2 surround speakers in the back and not add another 2 speakers directed to the kitchen.


In regard to the KEF speakers that was recommended, I would prefer Klipsch speakers.. I like how they sound
Ofri Avizov is offline  
post #6 of 10 Old 06-12-2019, 11:30 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bluewizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,627
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2248 Post(s)
Liked: 1486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ofri Avizov View Post
Hi,

Thank you very much for the detailed comment, highly appreciated.
...

In regard to have only 2 stereo speakers.
Even though music is the main usage, we still watch movies sometime and we want the real surround effect, so we would really want the surround speakers.
Obviously this is purely your personal choice, and we can respect it either way.

I will once again make a plea for Floorstanding speakers, but I can also understand the appeal of In-Wall.

The impact and space filling ability is going to be based on the size of the speakers. Floorstanding would likely have 2x6.5" or 2x8" each. If you go for In-Wall, and that seems to be a decision made, I would be inclined to go for the larger 8" models (link provided in previous post).

An 8" driver is 67% larger than a 6.5" Driver, that's a considerable difference.

The Klipsch speakers are exceptionally efficient, and will put out a lot of sound with very little power, so they should have no problem filling the space.

Quote:
Based on your reply, I understand that there shouldn't be a problem enjoy the music in other areas like the kitchen.. so I think we should stay with only 2 surround speakers in the back and not add another 2 speakers directed to the kitchen.

In regard to the KEF speakers that was recommended, I would prefer Klipsch speakers.. I like how they sound
As to the kitchen, again, Network Streaming is easier then hard wiring speakers, and far more flexible. Keep in mind that most Network Streams can be controlled using a Smart Phone App.

If you already have the kitchen wired for ceiling speakers, then in the kitchen you could use this Yamaha WXA-50 Network Amp -

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audi...0_u/index.html

This is a very compact Network Streamer with Amps built in.

Then combine that with one of the higher end Yamaha AV Receivers, one consistent with your budget -

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audi...mps/index.html

In AV Receiver, especially if Music is involved, I recommend you spend over $1000, and preferably $1500 or more to get the quality of amp that will do the Music justice.

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audi...0_u/index.html

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audi...0_u/index.html

If you are going to skimp on the cost of the AV Receiver, then I would rather see you invest the money into a Stereo Amp. Two good channels are worth far more than 7 so-so amp channels. So, if you are going to go AV Surround ... then go big.

One common Smart Phone App could run the Streaming aspect of both locations. You can pick which location you want to Stream to, either Kitchen only, Lounge only, or both. Once you have this system (or similar from another brand) you can extend Streaming through your entire house with only Wired or Wireless Network Connection.

In a lesser location, bed, bath, home office, there are stand alone Network Speakers, that can stream music to that remote location as along as the location has network access. All using a common Control App that can be installed on any Android or Apple device.

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audi..._20/index.html

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audi..._50/index.html

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audi...500/index.html

Similar are available from other brands, I simply used Yamaha as an example. And similar are available as stand lone products like Bluesound and Sonos.

I think you will find having the independent systems that can be linked to be much more flexible than hard wiring remote speakers to the main amp.

As to Klipsch vs Kef, both are good speakers, get the one you prefer. The new Klipsch RP-Series have been getting very high praise from users and reviewers, I would expect good results from them. The In-Wall models are built from the same drivers, so you should expect the same performance, and the key to the improved sound is the Rubberized Horn Tweeter, and Free-Standing, and In-Wall should both have that. The Klipsch that both you and I linked to were from the RP-Series. And in Klipsch, at a very fair price, most certainly the RP-Series.

Just a few additional thoughts.

Steve/bluewizard

Last edited by bluewizard; 06-12-2019 at 11:37 AM.
bluewizard is online now  
post #7 of 10 Old 06-12-2019, 01:04 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bluewizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,627
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2248 Post(s)
Liked: 1486
Though I am dipping my toe into your business, if there will be a fireplace in the Mantle/Breast, I would recommend a very Low Profile Gas Fireplace -

http://blackcrests.com/low-profile-gas-fireplace/

http://sainsponsel.com/next/

http://www.brand-google.com/linear-f...s-heat-glo-12/

You want the MINIMUM possible intrusion into available space for the Audio System. Fireplaces are the BANE of Audio, in one way or another they are going to screw things up. So the less intrusion, the better.

The low profile Klipch RP-640D On-Wall might be a potential solution. If you are considering the Down-and-Out TV Mount to allow the TV to be down at a less neck craning level, it is possible to mount low profile Center speaker to the Down-and-Out TV mount, so when the TV is pulled down the Center Speaker comes down with it.

Here is an example that allows a modest Center Speaker to be attached above or below the TV on a Dynamic (down/out) TV mount. If the photos don't show properly, click on the magnifying glass icon to see a full sized version -

https://www.dynamicmounting.com/prod...ndbar-bracket/

This photo shows the Center mounted above the TV -

https://www.dynamicmounting.com/wp-c...s-Above-TV.jpg

This shows a smaller Center mounted below the TV -

https://www.dynamicmounting.com/wp-c...-1-402x402.jpg

So that is an option.

The Klipsch RP-640D On-Wall used SIX 3.5" Bass drivers (actually 2 active and 4 passive) and has the dimensions of

6" High x 28.5" Wide x 2" Deep.

Weight 8 pounds / 1.7kg


https://www.klipsch.com/products/rp-...n-wall-speaker

Here is another photo minus the TV so you can see how the Center Speaker Bracket attaches -

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/570127634049934230

As long as the Center Speaker and the combined weight of the TV are in the working range of the Dynamic Mount, there shouldn't be any problem.

If you do not like the Dynamic TV Mount, and you have a very low profile fireplace, it might be possible to put a speaker like this In-Wall under the TV -

https://www.klipsch.com/products/pro-25rw-lcr

2x5.25" Bass Drivers -

7.5” H x 17.4” W x 3.8” D (19.1cm H x 44.2cm W x 9.6cm D) Mounted sideways


That's still pretty compact. The only caution would be to maker sure there is heat insulation between the Fireplace and the Speaker.

A low profile Fireplace might not be as traditional, but it is going to save you a lot of headaches in the end relative to the installation of Audio.

Just a few more thought, for whatever they might be worth.

Steve/bluewizard

Last edited by bluewizard; 06-12-2019 at 01:08 PM.
bluewizard is online now  
post #8 of 10 Old 06-12-2019, 01:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bluewizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,627
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2248 Post(s)
Liked: 1486
Sorry, don't mean to completely dominate the conversation, but one additional point.

Within reason, you want to place your Front Speaker wide, the wider the speakers are placed, the wider the sound stage. Of course, I acknowledge being on the Chimney breast, there are limits, but if it is choice between speaker right next to the TV and Speaker spaced wide (within reason) choose speaker placed wide.

Back to the Fireplace and In-Wall Center Speaker, if we allow the fireplace to be 12" above the floor, and another 14" for the low profile fireplace itself, and then we allow another 14" for the Center speaker which is really only 8" high, that places the bottom of the TV up about 40" (3.3ft) which is not exceptionally high. That places the Center of the TV (best guess for 65") at about 58" (4.8ft).

However, if we go with a more conventional fireplace, that's going to add another (best guess) 1.5 ft, putting the bottom of the TV at best up at 58" inches. That's a bit higher. That's going to put the Center of the TV up another roughly 18" for a distance from the floor to the best guess center of the TV at 76" (6.3ft). Extending this on, that's going to put the Top of the TV at about 94" or 7.8 feet.

That doesn't leave room for a Mantel on the fireplace, for that add another at least 12".

Since the room seems to be under construction now, these decisions all have to be made before you get too far along.

Sorry to make things so complicated.

Steve/bluewizard

Last edited by bluewizard; 06-12-2019 at 01:50 PM.
bluewizard is online now  
post #9 of 10 Old 06-12-2019, 02:33 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RayGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,171
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2516 Post(s)
Liked: 2264
Well, some nice advice being given here. I just wanted to chime in on the Kitchen solution. If you choose to not go the wireless route, you could hardwire some in-wall speakers into the soffit that runs the area above the sink. My feeling is that there will be a bit of an echo in the room, and having close speakers will cut through that more easily than speakers mounted half a room away. You could use a speaker selector or a separate multi-zone amp to resolve the zone two dilemma. There are also receivers that handle zone 3, but they tend to be a bit more expensive.

One other idea. You might consider using pendant speakers for your HT surrounds. If hung high enough (but not too high), they would easily cover the entire seating area with sound. Hung from one of the rafters above, they would be quite an addition to the decor, and a conversation piece. JVC has some that are well regarded, but Gallo has some beautiful color options to match/contrast the supports where you envisioned putting the speakers (yellow or gold, maybe?). Hey, maybe this solution could work for the kitchen, as well?

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

Last edited by RayGuy; 06-12-2019 at 02:45 PM.
RayGuy is offline  
post #10 of 10 Old 06-13-2019, 12:17 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Hi,

Thank you for all the comments and suggestions!
The fireplace is not really relevant, I live in Israel, so fireplaces are extremely rare here. We have built-in air-con hidden behind the TV, and therefore the center speaker can't be in-wall (no space for it) and need to be on-wall. This is also why I'm limited to the 6.5" speakers.

I like the idea of the network speakers that with the app you can decide if it's playing from group of speakers or not... but I'm quite scared that there will be sync issue..
We wanted to buy AV Receiver Sony DN1080 and I saw that the receiver supports this as well through the app... The receiver support only 2 zone though.

I will also check the idea of using Speaker selector, which I think might work the best..

Regard the speakers Pendant speakers, it's technically will be really difficult to do in the current stage of the work in the house...

Thank you for all the suggestions! really helpful!
Ofri Avizov is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off