Please Help with my 7.1 setup - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 47 Old 06-13-2019, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Exclamation Please Help with my 7.1 setup

Hi, first of all many thanks to all members in this forum for the many tips and infos.

Im new to this forum and this world but been reading many threads as a guest but I had to register to seek help from you guys I'm gonna be honest here i'm a noob in sound system and these stuff I'm a drifter my knowledge all is towards cars and racing and engineering hahaha.

I had to sell my Supercharger to afford this Home Cinema but since I installed it 3 years ago until today couldn't get the best out of it I tried to educate my self these years reading about these stuff i had about 30-40% experience:lesson: Now lets go to the subject the only thing I tried to understand but i couldn't is the Crossover HZ i have no idea how to set it base on the size of the speaker or base on what I prefer, so I had to take pictures of my living room with all speakers covered so you guys can know what size are they and what Hz should be set for all of them:

my Amp is TX-NR575E just upgraded it from TX-NR515 to support Dolby Atmos and vision




That's my Center and two front full bands


yellow is the Surround ( keep in mind its double side speaker the yellow) and blue is surround back one side speaker as shown



Thats my Jamo Sub 360


Settings






from settings above do i have something wrong ? I cannot do Audyssey because it cannot reach listening area or even half of it i'm 8m from front speakers and the Amp i sit right between the surround back speakers.

my questions are :
1- should i change any of the crossover based on my speakers size of they're incorrect ?
2- And whats that LPF of LFE option ? the maximum is 120hz i read its the best setting
3- The Sub has cut of and phase option some says adjust them at 12 o'clock other say at max i'm confused about this (Sub is located in the middle of the room between me and the Tv same length 4m)

Thanks Guys and sorry for the long writhing but i'm sick of this and need to figure how to get the best of it my front right long speaker tweeter is blown i have ordered one waiting to change it. Cheers
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post #2 of 47 Old 06-13-2019, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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for some reason I can't edit my original post so this the last picture :

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post #3 of 47 Old 06-13-2019, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M9ADE3 View Post
should i change any of the crossover based on my speakers size of they're incorrect ?
How did you come up with those crossover numbers?
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And whats that LPF of LFE option ?
That's the Low Pass Filter for the .1 (LFE) channel. The LFE channel goes up to 120Hz. If you want the hear the entire contents of that channel, then set the LPF to 120Hz.
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The Sub has cut of and phase option some says adjust them at 12 o'clock other say at max i'm confused about this
Set the phase to 0° (zero degrees) and the cut-off as high as possible.

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post #4 of 47 Old 06-13-2019, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by M9ADE3 View Post
Hi, first of all many thanks to all members in this forum for the many tips and infos.

Im new to this forum and this world but been reading many threads as a guest but I had to register to seek help from you guys I'm gonna be honest here i'm a noob in sound system and these stuff I'm a drifter my knowledge all is towards cars and racing and engineering hahaha.

I had to sell my Supercharger to afford this Home Cinema but since I installed it 3 years ago until today couldn't get the best out of it I tried to educate my self these years reading about these stuff i had about 30-40% experience:lesson: Now lets go to the subject the only thing I tried to understand but i couldn't is the Crossover HZ i have no idea how to set it base on the size of the speaker or base on what I prefer, so I had to take pictures of my living room with all speakers covered so you guys can know what size are they and what Hz should be set for all of them:

my Amp is TX-NR575E just upgraded it from TX-NR515 to support Dolby Atmos and vision




That's my Center and two front full bands


yellow is the Surround ( keep in mind its double side speaker the yellow) and blue is surround back one side speaker as shown



Thats my Jamo Sub 360


Settings






from settings above do i have something wrong ? I cannot do Audyssey because it cannot reach listening area or even half of it i'm 8m from front speakers and the Amp i sit right between the surround back speakers.

my questions are :
1- should i change any of the crossover based on my speakers size of they're incorrect ?
2- And whats that LPF of LFE option ? the maximum is 120hz i read its the best setting
3- The Sub has cut of and phase option some says adjust them at 12 o'clock other say at max i'm confused about this (Sub is located in the middle of the room between me and the Tv same length 4m)

Thanks Guys and sorry for the long writhing but i'm sick of this and need to figure how to get the best of it my front right long speaker tweeter is blown i have ordered one waiting to change it. Cheers
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
How did you come up with those crossover numbers? That's the Low Pass Filter for the .1 (LFE) channel. The LFE channel goes up to 120Hz. If you want the hear the entire contents of that channel, then set the LPF to 120Hz. Set the phase to 0° (zero degrees) and the cut-off as high as possible.
Thanks for clarifying these, about the numbers spent much reading here and there and from time to time i change them until i find the best/clear sound and stick with it but since i upgraded to the 575E I'm lost and copied my old settings but from what i read the surrounds Hz better to be around 100-120
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post #5 of 47 Old 06-13-2019, 11:11 AM
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Get yourself a Db meter and re-set all your gains on the receiver so that they all measure 75dB with the test tone. First, set all the gains for all the speakers to 0, then run the test tone on the center speaker and adjust the volume knob on the receiver until you get it to 75 dB. Now, run the test tone on the left speaker and adjust the gain (not the volume control) until you get it to 75dB. Repeat that process for all the other speakers.

Better yet, find yourself a cable extender for the microphone, so you can run Audyssey.

BTW, if you pull your L&R speakers out of the corner and angle them in a little, the sound should improve tremendously. Try one foot from the side walls and 18" from the rear wall (or visa-versa). As currently configured, your bass response must be a muddy mess.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

Last edited by RayGuy; 06-13-2019 at 11:19 AM.
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post #6 of 47 Old 06-13-2019, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by M9ADE3 View Post
copied my old settings
Why not find out the specs for all your speakers and set the crossover slightly above where they roll off. For example: if your surrounds are good down to 73Hz, then set their crossover to 80Hz. Also, your front L/R speakers are not going to be full range (down to 20Hz).

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post #7 of 47 Old 06-13-2019, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by M9ADE3 View Post
Thanks for clarifying these, about the numbers spent much reading here and there and from time to time i change them until i find the best/clear sound and stick with it but since i upgraded to the 575E I'm lost and copied my old settings but from what i read the surrounds Hz better to be around 100-120
Unless that was a typo, 8m (26 feet) is way too far out. You may want to consider if possible closing the gap to within 3-3.5 m (10-12 feet) if you want to hear your system without having to jack the levels up so high.

Your front towers should be brought out of the corner and placed closer to the TV. Pulling them away from the back wall (as far forward as you can get away with) to give them some breathing room will also be beneficial.

Subwoofers see the entire space, not just the listening area. From the looks of it, you have a fairly large room and your sub(s) are underpowered for the amount of space they need to pressurize. You'd need either a very powerful sub or dual subs for your room. If upgrading the sub present budgetary challenges, try placing the sub directly beside or behind the sofa.

Theses changes even without upgrading subs should make a noticeable difference. Be sure to run audyssey after making changes.

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post #8 of 47 Old 06-13-2019, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
Get yourself a Db meter and re-set all your gains on the receiver so that they all measure 75dB with the test tone. First, set all the gains for all the speakers to 0, then run the test tone on the center speaker and adjust the volume knob on the receiver until you get it to 75 dB. Now, run the test tone on the left speaker and adjust the gain (not the volume control) until you get it to 75dB. Repeat that process for all the other speakers.

Better yet, find yourself a cable extender for the microphone, so you can run Audyssey.

BTW, if you pull your L&R speakers out of the corner and angle them in a little, the sound should improve tremendously. Try one foot from the side walls and 18" from the rear wall (or visa-versa). As currently configured, your bass response must be a muddy mess.
I was thinking about the extender actually, I can run Audyssey but it will be 1.5 meter away from sitting area will that be an issue ?

About the front speakers i'm gonna pull them now
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post #9 of 47 Old 06-13-2019, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Why not find out the specs for all your speakers and set the crossover slightly above where they roll off. For example: if your surrounds are good down to 73Hz, then set their crossover to 80Hz. Also, your front L/R speakers are not going to be full range (down to 20Hz).
you mean by searching for user manual for each speaker ?

Also, your front L/R speakers are not going to be full range (down to 20Hz) I didn't get that part sorry.
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post #10 of 47 Old 06-13-2019, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by M9ADE3 View Post
you mean by searching for user manual for each speaker ?
Or Googling their specs. Didn't your speakers come with a manual?
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Also, your front L/R speakers are not going to be full range (down to 20Hz) I didn't get that part sorry.
When you find the specifications for your front L/R speakers, you will find out that their frequency response is not full range (which means you'll need to assign them a crossover).

Sanjay
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post #11 of 47 Old 06-13-2019, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Unless that was a typo, 8m (26 feet) is way too far out. You may want to consider if possible closing the gap to within 3-3.5 m (10-12 feet) if you want to hear your system without having to jack the levels up so high.

Your front towers should be brought out of the corner and placed closer to the TV. Pulling them away from the back wall (as far forward as you can get away with) to give them some breathing room will also be beneficial.

Subwoofers see the entire space, not just the listening area. From the looks of it, you have a fairly large room and your sub(s) are underpowered for the amount of space they need to pressurize. You'd need either a very powerful sub or dual subs for your room. If upgrading the sub present budgetary challenges, try placing the sub directly beside or behind the sofa.

Theses changes even without upgrading subs should make a noticeable difference. Be sure to run audyssey after making changes.


Thats the actual distance from center speaker to sitting area, regarding the Sub actually its way strong and high consider my place is all Wood even floor its killing me it shakes very very hard and some light stuff moves from the table
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post #12 of 47 Old 06-13-2019, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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post #13 of 47 Old 06-13-2019, 12:01 PM
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Thats the actual distance from center speaker to sitting area, regarding the Sub actually its way strong and high consider my place is all Wood even floor its killing me it shakes very very hard and some light stuff moves from the table
If you're happy with the sub that's a good thing. Full range of human hearing is 20hz to 20khz. Your speakers aren't capable of covering the entire range. With tower speakers I'd start with an 80hz crossover, then adjust to suit your preferences. Using an SPL as @RayGuy recommended would be a good idea.
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Originally Posted by M9ADE3 View Post
I was thinking about the extender actually, I can run Audyssey but it will be 1.5 meter away from sitting area will that be an issue ?

About the front speakers i'm gonna pull them now
Yes, it will be an issue. Get an extension that is long enough to place the mic properly.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.
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post #15 of 47 Old 06-13-2019, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, it will be an issue. Get an extension that is long enough to place the mic properly.
will do, but when running Audyssey the distance level are not accurate from where the mic is located it should give same distance for surround speakers or at least small gap so what if i adjust the distance after Audyssey will that also be an issue ? and regarding level calibration Audyssey sometimes gives you (example) surround R+7 And surround L+11 will that not cause balance issue ? same positions huge gap ?

Another question please i read a lot that sub cut off should set at max but when i do its very shaky and noisy even if lowering the bass will adjusting it at 12 o'clock be in issue ?


just finished moving the speakers one and half foot from the side walls and two foot from the rear wall




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If you're happy with the sub that's a good thing. Full range of human hearing is 20hz to 20khz. Your speakers aren't capable of covering the entire range. With tower speakers I'd start with an 80hz crossover, then adjust to suit your preferences. Using an SPL as @RayGuy recommended would be a good idea.
So just changed it from full band to 90Hz but i couldn't tell the difference how you guys tell ?

and when running Audyssey it set my front speakers to full band so after doing it i re-adjust it ?
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post #17 of 47 Old 06-13-2019, 01:10 PM
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This is the NR575. Didn't Onkyo stop using Audyssey a few years back? I believe current models use AccuEQ

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post #18 of 47 Old 06-13-2019, 01:22 PM
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So just changed it from full band to 90Hz but i couldn't tell the difference how you guys tell ?

and when running Audyssey it set my front speakers to full band so after doing it i re-adjust it ?
Make sure all speakers are set to small and that you don't have double bass on. The difference can be very subtle. Ideally you want the sub to blend in with your mains without drawing attention to itself. I have very different setting for music than I do for movies. Stereo mode for music (sounds best) , dynamic eq turned off and -1.5db below audyssey default. For HT: Dolby surround, dynamic eq on, sub adjustment to +3-4db above default.

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post #19 of 47 Old 06-13-2019, 01:34 PM
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will do, but when running Audyssey the distance level are not accurate from where the mic is located it should give same distance for surround speakers or at least small gap so what if i adjust the distance after Audyssey will that also be an issue ? and regarding level calibration Audyssey sometimes gives you (example) surround R+7 And surround L+11 will that not cause balance issue ? same positions huge gap ?

Another question please i read a lot that sub cut off should set at max but when i do its very shaky and noisy even if lowering the bass will adjusting it at 12 o'clock be in issue ?


just finished moving the speakers one and half foot from the side walls and two foot from the rear wall




The distances set by your AVR have to do with delays so all sound hits the MLP at the same time. It's not measuring physical distance. You should leave those be and not make adjustments. If you did make changes, i recommend re-running audyssey. Yes sub volume to 12 o'clock, crossover to the max or bypass, phase at 0. You ideally want to be between -5 and -10 (for the sub) after calibration.

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This is the NR575. Didn't Onkyo stop using Audyssey a few years back? I believe current models use AccuEQ
Yes you're 100% right but im still calling the old name hahahah the new one it take x3 time more than the Audyssey. quick question should i keep the mic in the same place during the whole process some says to change it little bit left and right
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Make sure all speakers are set to small and that you don't have double bass on. The difference can be very subtle. Ideally you want the sub to blend in with your mains without drawing attention to itself. I have very different setting for music than I do for movies. Stereo mode for music (sounds best) , dynamic eq turned off and -1.5db below audyssey default. For HT: Dolby surround, dynamic eq on, sub adjustment to +3-4db above default.
I dont have the setting to set small/large just for the front full band or lower Hz and then the rest center surround and the double bass option is grayed yes look up for the crossover picture, after changing from full band to 80Hz i could tell the sound is more clear and pure is that what suppose to happen ? if yes then you guys are awesome now since the low frq ( if i got this right) will be transfer to the sub ? should the cut off set to max 200hz or middle ? phase is 0

Thats the main menu and above pictures are what inside each option:



I wish i have all that knowledge you guys had to get the best out of my system

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post #22 of 47 Old 06-13-2019, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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The distances set by your AVR have to do with delays so all sound hits the MLP at the same time. It's not measuring physical distance. You should leave those be and not make adjustments. If you did make changes, i recommend re-running audyssey. Yes sub volume to 12 o'clock, crossover to the max or bypass, phase at 0. You ideally want to be between -5 and -10 (for the sub) after calibration.
Sounds clear will do Sir can't wait for the extender, crossover to the max or bypass you mean the cut off at max or the LPF to LFE option in the crossover menu at max 120hz ? sorry bit confused
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post #23 of 47 Old 06-13-2019, 01:55 PM
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Sounds clear will do Sir can't wait for the extender, crossover to the max or bypass you mean the cut off at max or the LPF to LFE option in the crossover menu at max 120hz ? sorry bit confused
Yes the crossover knob on the sub itself to max or bypass. Set crossover to 80-90hz in the AVR crossover menu. Let your AVR handle bass management. Leave the LPF at 120hz.

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post #24 of 47 Old 06-13-2019, 02:05 PM
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I dont have the setting to set small/large just for the front full band or lower Hz and then the rest center surround and the double bass option is grayed yes look up for the crossover picture, after changing from full band to 80Hz i could tell the sound is more clear and pure is that what suppose to happen ? if yes then you guys are awesome now since the low frq ( if i got this right) will be transfer to the sub ? should the cut off set to max 200hz or middle ? phase is 0

Thats the main menu and above pictures are what inside each option:



I wish i have all that knowledge you guys had to get the best out of my system
I was where you are before joining this forum. I can pass on what I've learned thanks to the very experienced and knowledgeable members who taught me all this stuff.

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post #25 of 47 Old 06-13-2019, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes the crossover knob on the sub itself to max or bypass. Set crossover to 80-90hz in the AVR crossover menu. Let your AVR handle bass management. Leave the LPF at 120hz.
So the crossover knob is the same as cut off that knob on the back of the sub you mean ?

Set crossover to 80-90hz in the AVR crossover menu there is no option for sub crossover in the menu or you mean the front speakers crossover

these the only options i get in crossover menu




is that that the crossover knob you mean ?
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post #26 of 47 Old 06-13-2019, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quick question does increasing and decreasing the crossover related to sound volume ? noticed that after changing it from full band to 80hz the talking sound in center speaker is reduced i usually when watch my tv show i set the volume at 65 now im going 72 so i can hear it i could tell that the front L and R are more higher than the center the effects from them reduces the center sound i'm running input dolby digital plus show with dolby surround output
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post #27 of 47 Old 06-14-2019, 08:44 AM
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So the crossover knob is the same as cut off that knob on the back of the sub you mean ?

Set crossover to 80-90hz in the AVR crossover menu there is no option for sub crossover in the menu or you mean the front speakers crossover

these the only options i get in crossover menu




is that that the crossover knob you mean ?
Yes, the cut-off (crossover) knob at max. That's how your center is supposed to sound. dialogue should be clearer without voices coming out of your sub. Higher volume is not a big deal as long as you can hear dialogue. You can boost up the center by a few dbs after audyssey if needed.

Kef LS50,Q200C, Q100, SVS SB-2000, Denon AVR-X3400H, NAD 216, Panasonic 50" Plasma, Xbox One.
Bedroom: JBL Loft 50 , Loft 20, Bic F-12, Denon AVR-S710W, PS3, 32" Insigna LED.
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post #28 of 47 Old 06-14-2019, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, the cut-off (crossover) knob at max. That's how your center is supposed to sound. dialogue should be clearer without voices coming out of your sub. Higher volume is not a big deal as long as you can hear dialogue. You can boost up the center by a few dbs after audyssey if needed.
Thanks for clarifying this, what about my other crossover settings Front and center and surrounds are they good?

And in general what Hz should be higher than the other between the (Surround And Surround Back) ? or at least the maximum gap between them

And I’m sorry. As I stated previously I am a noob to these things and I’d appreciate the help. You guys are obviously more knowledgeable than I am and I appreciate your feedback. Cheers
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Here a new video I changed the Sub location its very noisy before in the mid way. That the only place i could come with what are your thoughts ( the floor crack sounds i know its crazy thats why i hate wood and the bass is making it worst the whole floor shakes like an earth quick but as long i'm in the sofa i don't feel it only when my feet at the floor).

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post #30 of 47 Old 06-14-2019, 07:19 PM
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Thanks for clarifying this, what about my other crossover settings Front and center and surrounds are they good?

And in general what Hz should be higher than the other between the (Surround And Surround Back) ? or at least the maximum gap between them

And I’m sorry. As I stated previously I am a noob to these things and I’d appreciate the help. You guys are obviously more knowledgeable than I am and I appreciate your feedback. Cheers
Here's a general guideline:
Towers (floor standing) speakers: 60-80hz
Bookshelf speakers with at least 5.25" drivers: 80-100hz
Satellite speakers: 110-120hz
My front and surround speakers are 2 way bookshelf speakers with a 5.25" driver. I've found that 90hz is the sweet spot in my room. YMMV.

Kef LS50,Q200C, Q100, SVS SB-2000, Denon AVR-X3400H, NAD 216, Panasonic 50" Plasma, Xbox One.
Bedroom: JBL Loft 50 , Loft 20, Bic F-12, Denon AVR-S710W, PS3, 32" Insigna LED.
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