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post #61 of 136 Old 07-04-2019, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Rysa4 View Post
Agree on asking folks who actually have the C1. But based on those specs the center channel could be a problem with that amp especially when moving up a bit on volume. That Denon, based on specs only, won't allow that center to perform up to its capability and the aymmetry with the left and right channels will need to be handled by a channel volume adjustment on the denon ( easy to do). That center might crackle a bit or buzz or just not offer enough volume. I actually have short circuited/overloaded a couple of basic receivers with 4 ohm speakers, but that was many years ago.

I am going to stay away from other speaker brand recs for now. Don't want to muddy the waters.
The denon is rated for a 4 ohm load. I would not worry. I used the T1/C2 that are 4 ohms and E2 8ohms on a onkyo 830 with no issues and others have also. A power amp does help drive them, its not needed though.
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post #62 of 136 Old 07-04-2019, 09:11 PM
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Instead of that Dayton 1500... why not look at the Martin Logan Dynamo 500 refurb is on amazon for $150. Pretty decent sub for the money. Definitely will sound better than that boomy Dayton. Which I have, can’t find a room it sounds good in. Very disappointed in that sub personally.
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post #63 of 136 Old 07-04-2019, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by murphy_5 View Post
Instead of that Dayton 1500... why not look at the Martin Logan Dynamo 500 refurb is on amazon for $150. Pretty decent sub for the money. Definitely will sound better than that boomy Dayton. Which I have, can’t find a room it sounds good in. Very disappointed in that sub personally.

I've had the Dayton sub-1500 and 1200 and I thought the 1200 was actually a bit better overall. The 1500 sounded a bit more flabby and looser than the 12" 1200. If I were the OP I would just hold off on the sub for now until funds allow for a quality sub. Speaker wise the Polk RTiA line would be great for home theater speakers and are at a reduced price now.
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post #64 of 136 Old 07-04-2019, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Matthew Pool View Post
I think you'll be very happy and impressed with that setup. A basic surge protector/power strip. Any 16 AWG oxygen free pure stranded copper will do: I have this but in 12 AWG. 16 AWG is fine:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_...xoCKqMQAvD_BwE

Just neatly and firmly secure it without connectors unless you want them.
Most cable is the same, as long as it is copper, and the above will be good. If you want a little color, here's what I went with recently: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MQVETL7

Technically 12awg is overkill for your front three speakers - that short of a run barely even makes 14 awg necessary, but peace of mind can be a powerful thing.

14awg: https://smile.amazon.com/InstallGear...dp/B01CSZAYF0/

The banana plugs I use now: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B007QUYQSY/
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post #65 of 136 Old 07-04-2019, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
I've had the Dayton sub-1500 and 1200 and I thought the 1200 was actually a bit better overall. The 1500 sounded a bit more flabby and looser than the 12" 1200. If I were the OP I would just hold off on the sub for now until funds allow for a quality sub. Speaker wise the Polk RTiA line would be great for home theater speakers and are at a reduced price now.
Agree with this advice. Hold off on the sub for now (for the same reason you're holding off on surrounds). With your budget limitation you'd be making compromises that in the long run you'll likely regret. Or you'll likely then want to sell off the stuff you purchased and upgrade. Start off with a smaller footprint which you can then spend more $ on per item and get better quality. The sub is going to be a critical piece, don't get something mediocre now just for the sake of having one. The woofers in the Emotivas will do the job for now.

If you can get down to Chicago, Fry's has the floorstanding Klipsch RP-5000Fs on for $187 each. You can get the Klipsch RP-400C Center channel for $255 after coupon code from Acoustic Sound Design online.

I have the Denon 2400H in my 2nd system, it's a good value AVR which will give you 4K HDR future proofing. Amazon has a coupon to cut the cost down to $252.

The banana plugs @Soulburner recommends above are a good choice.
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Last edited by PlanetAVS; 07-04-2019 at 11:29 PM.
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post #66 of 136 Old 07-05-2019, 03:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Most cable is the same, as long as it is copper, and the above will be good. If you want a little color, here's what I went with recently: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MQVETL7

Technically 12awg is overkill for your front three speakers - that short of a run barely even makes 14 awg necessary, but peace of mind can be a powerful thing.

14awg: https://smile.amazon.com/InstallGear...dp/B01CSZAYF0/

The banana plugs I use now: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B007QUYQSY/
I know the 12 AWG is overkill but I like the aesthetics of the thicker gauge. I use those exact same banana plugs and spades and they look great and are high quality. BTW that speaker wire you link to is copper clad aluminum and not solid copper (oxygen free). I'm not saying there will be a difference but most people I've people recommend solid strand oxygen free pure copper. Here's some pics when I used the Best Buy Rocketfish 16 AWG solid strand pure copper o2 free. Now I have the Monoprice 12 AWG which actually doesn't look much bigger than the previous 16 AWG.
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post #67 of 136 Old 07-05-2019, 03:58 AM
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What is this coupon code everyone is say for amazon? $250 for the Denon 2400 I may pick it up to replace my entry level Yamaha...
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post #68 of 136 Old 07-05-2019, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by murphy_5 View Post
What is this coupon code everyone is say for amazon? $250 for the Denon 2400 I may pick it up to replace my entry level Yamaha...
That 2400 looks good for that price especially with the front L/R and dual sub pre-outs. I had a Denon X4400 for a while and while it has a different sound signature than my Yamaha (I prefer the Yamaha for music) I think I prefer the Denon for movies because it had a heavier (but muddier) mid bass punch and richer vocal tone that was very satisfying in movie mode. :-)

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post #69 of 136 Old 07-05-2019, 04:59 AM
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Copper Clad Aluminum (CCA) cable is OK, but I would size up a gauge from what you normally use in copper if you go that route.
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post #70 of 136 Old 07-05-2019, 05:18 AM
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What is this coupon code everyone is say for amazon? $250 for the Denon 2400 I may pick it up to replace my entry level Yamaha...
Coupon is gone. Its now $300. Yesterday there was a 20% off coupon for it.
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post #71 of 136 Old 07-05-2019, 06:17 AM
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That sucks! I did try yesterday too & didn’t see anything either. Oh well. Would be nice to try and see if the XT room calibration could tame that cruddy Sub 1500.
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post #72 of 136 Old 07-05-2019, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Matthew Pool View Post
I know the 12 AWG is overkill but I like the aesthetics of the thicker gauge. I use those exact same banana plugs and spades and they look great and are high quality. BTW that speaker wire you link to is copper clad aluminum and not solid copper (oxygen free). I'm not saying there will be a difference but most people I've people recommend solid strand oxygen free pure copper. Here's some pics when I used the Best Buy Rocketfish 16 AWG solid strand pure copper o2 free. Now I have the Monoprice 12 AWG which actually doesn't look much bigger than the previous 16 AWG.
Remember youre helping a complete noob. I have no idea what 12 AWG means or what a 'thicker' gauge does or is useful for if anything. I just need several recommendations on plugs/wiring from the community. All i have gathered from postings is that I want oxygen free.
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post #73 of 136 Old 07-05-2019, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Agree with this advice. Hold off on the sub for now (for the same reason you're holding off on surrounds). With your budget limitation you'd be making compromises that in the long run you'll likely regret. Or you'll likely then want to sell off the stuff you purchased and upgrade. Start off with a smaller footprint which you can then spend more $ on per item and get better quality. The sub is going to be a critical piece, don't get something mediocre now just for the sake of having one. The woofers in the Emotivas will do the job for now.

If you can get down to Chicago, Fry's has the floorstanding Klipsch RP-5000Fs on for $187 each. You can get the Klipsch RP-400C Center channel for $255 after coupon code from Acoustic Sound Design online.

I have the Denon 2400H in my 2nd system, it's a good value AVR which will give you 4K HDR future proofing. Amazon has a coupon to cut the cost down to $252.

The banana plugs @Soulburner recommends above are a good choice.
Okay so lets say I hold off on the subs, and possibly switched speakers to something 8ohms instead of the 4ohms for the Emotiva and I will hold off on sub for now as mentioned to save for something better quality (I dont know exactly what this means but I know it requires more power and seems to be a gray area) So instead of 3.1 or 2.1 I maybe did 2.0 or 3.0 I guess that would be? The 8ohms seems shaky to me although I am not fully informed and knowledgable maybe some community members could suggest a few more speaker options or maybe I should just go with the NHTs? Still looking at about a budget of $200-250 for a pair of L/R and then another $150-$200 for center. Or just whatever would be recommended for LRC for about $400-450. I know everyone here has their own opinions, and dont forget this is 95% used for sports and movies, very little if any music. Also does anyone have other AVR recommendations for that $300 range that maybe something they know of is on sale or is the x2400 the best bang for buck?
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post #74 of 136 Old 07-05-2019, 08:38 AM
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Okay so lets say I hold off on the subs, and possibly switched speakers to something 8ohms instead of the 4ohms for the Emotiva and I will hold off on sub for now as mentioned to save for something better quality (I dont know exactly what this means but I know it requires more power and seems to be a gray area) So instead of 3.1 or 2.1 I maybe did 2.0 or 3.0 I guess that would be? The 8ohms seems shaky to me although I am not fully informed and knowledgable maybe some community members could suggest a few more speaker options or maybe I should just go with the NHTs? Still looking at about a budget of $200-250 for a pair of L/R and then another $150-$200 for center. Or just whatever would be recommended for LRC for about $400-450. I know everyone here has their own opinions, and dont forget this is 95% used for sports and movies, very little if any music. Also does anyone have other AVR recommendations for that $300 range that maybe something they know of is on sale or is the x2400 the best bang for buck?
Can you get to Frys in Chicago? That Klipsch deal is outstanding, 8ohms and in your budget. The sub has its own power, if that is what you mean. Assuming that you're willing to invest more down the road to get better quality, I would even skip the center channel for now and spend more on the speakers or AVR. You can set dialogue higher in the AVR settings with just the 2.0 speaker setup, and if you're not satisfied then go out and get a good center channel.

Sub isn't as important for sports but definitely is huge for movies. The 2400H is a good choice, unless you can afford to wait for another deal. Doubt that it's going to save you enough money to make an impact on the overall budget though.

Last edited by PlanetAVS; 07-05-2019 at 08:42 AM.
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post #75 of 136 Old 07-05-2019, 08:42 AM
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I know the 12 AWG is overkill but I like the aesthetics of the thicker gauge. I use those exact same banana plugs and spades and they look great and are high quality. BTW that speaker wire you link to is copper clad aluminum and not solid copper (oxygen free). I'm not saying there will be a difference but most people I've people recommend solid strand oxygen free pure copper. Here's some pics when I used the Best Buy Rocketfish 16 AWG solid strand pure copper o2 free. Now I have the Monoprice 12 AWG which actually doesn't look much bigger than the previous 16 AWG.
My bad, I guess I assumed their 14awg wire was the same as their 12awg copper. Silly me?

But yeah, there's a slight drop in efficiency with aluminum, which will matter for longer runs.
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post #76 of 136 Old 07-05-2019, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Rysa4 View Post
Agree on asking folks who actually have the C1. But based on those specs the center channel could be a problem with that amp especially when moving up a bit on volume. That Denon, based on specs only, won't allow that center to perform up to its capability and the aymmetry with the left and right channels will need to be handled by a channel volume adjustment on the denon ( easy to do). That center might crackle a bit or buzz or just not offer enough volume. I actually have short circuited/overloaded a couple of basic receivers with 4 ohm speakers, but that was many years ago.

I am going to stay away from other speaker brand recs for now. Don't want to muddy the waters.
I use an Emotiva C2 center with my Onkyo NR656, which isn't even technically 'rated' for 4 ohms, with a combination of 6- and 8-ohm L/Rs like Revel M16s, JBL Studio 530s, and Jamo S803s and it sounds great. You may be overthinking things a bit.
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post #77 of 136 Old 07-05-2019, 08:43 AM
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What is the ohms in a speaker? I remember someone said 4 ohms requires more power than 8 ohms. Will there be any issues with me running with the Denon x2400?
I run my 5.1.2 system that is all Emotiva for the 5 part (T1's/C1/B1's) plus two atmos upfiring with a marantz NR1607. That only does 50w at 8ohms. It drives them loud enough and that's with all three front speakers being 4ohms, so if you're not getting the T1's it will be plenty. I did just order a power amp to run the T1's though just to get a bit more headroom but my little low power AVR drives them loud enough. the x2400 has more power than my 1607 you'll be fine imo.

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post #78 of 136 Old 07-05-2019, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Can you get to Frys in Chicago? That Klipsch deal is outstanding, 8ohms and in your budget. The sub has its own power, if that is what you mean. Assuming that you're willing to invest more down the road to get better quality, I would even skip the center channel for now and spend more on the speakers or AVR. You can set dialogue higher in the AVR settings with just the 2.0 speaker setup, and if you're not satisfied then go out and get a good center channel.

Sub isn't as important for sports but definitely is huge for movies. The 2400H is a good choice, unless you can afford to wait for another deal. Doubt that it's going to save you enough money to make an impact on the overall budget though.
I am really quite busy in general most days. Not saying I could or couldnt make it. Just unsure really.
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post #79 of 136 Old 07-05-2019, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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I use an Emotiva C2 center with my Onkyo NR656, which isn't even technically 'rated' for 4 ohms, with a combination of 6- and 8-ohm L/Rs like Revel M16s, JBL Studio 530s, and Jamo S803s and it sounds great. You may be overthinking things a bit.
Yeah I guess information overload really. Keep hearing different things from different users and being a noob starting off its confusing to say the least. I will probably take your word for it and go with it! As mentioned prior, I am coming from zero surround or channel speakers - pure TV speaker sadness. I know 100% whatever I get will sound great to my ears since I am comparing to crap TV audio
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post #80 of 136 Old 07-05-2019, 09:00 AM
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I am really quite busy in general most days. Not saying I could or couldnt make it. Just unsure really.
Doubt that deal will last. I'd just go with the original Emotiva or NHT (including center speaker) plan, or the Polk RTiA that MixMaster recommended above that's on sale (without center). Hold off on the sub.

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post #81 of 136 Old 07-05-2019, 09:08 AM
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Okay so lets say I hold off on the subs, and possibly switched speakers to something 8ohms instead of the 4ohms for the Emotiva and I will hold off on sub for now as mentioned to save for something better quality (I dont know exactly what this means but I know it requires more power and seems to be a gray area) So instead of 3.1 or 2.1 I maybe did 2.0 or 3.0 I guess that would be? The 8ohms seems shaky to me although I am not fully informed and knowledgable maybe some community members could suggest a few more speaker options or maybe I should just go with the NHTs? Still looking at about a budget of $200-250 for a pair of L/R and then another $150-$200 for center. Or just whatever would be recommended for LRC for about $400-450. I know everyone here has their own opinions, and dont forget this is 95% used for sports and movies, very little if any music. Also does anyone have other AVR recommendations for that $300 range that maybe something they know of is on sale or is the x2400 the best bang for buck?
I would not worry any about the 4 ohms speakers. Many use them on avr with no issues. Me included. The denon is rated for 4 ohm speakers and its just one 4 ohm speaker.
We all will have different likes or one we have tried before. You dont have to send more power to the speaker they will still sound great but sending more to them does help i think.
I am not sure on the dayton subwoofer. Never heard it but do think from sales you might find a better sub. Emotiva had a 10” basx sub that is out of stock now but was only $225 and think would be a better sub than the dayton.
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post #82 of 136 Old 07-05-2019, 09:11 AM
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You might also look at NHT



L/R/C - NHT SuperOnes $309

Rears - NHT Super Zeros $122

BIC Acoustech PL200 II Sub $299



Total - $730
I've been using NHT SuperOnes/SuperZeros going on 20 years, and don't feel any need to upgrade. I don't consider them a 'budget' system. Inexpensive, but not 'cheap'.

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post #83 of 136 Old 07-05-2019, 09:14 AM
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Yeah I guess information overload really. Keep hearing different things from different users and being a noob starting off its confusing to say the least. I will probably take your word for it and go with it! As mentioned prior, I am coming from zero surround or channel speakers - pure TV speaker sadness. I know 100% whatever I get will sound great to my ears since I am comparing to crap TV audio
You are correct anything will be 100% better than the tv speakers.
For me i would find the best deal on the highest quality equipment available at the time. Stay in budget and wait for a sale on a sub and get what you can for the front 3 speakers in that budget. Can always change things around and no need to pay full price with alot of good deals going on.
Remember there is no wrong choice in this matter, most just recommend off what they have heard or what good deals they see at the time.
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post #84 of 136 Old 07-05-2019, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
I've had the Dayton sub-1500 and 1200 and I thought the 1200 was actually a bit better overall. The 1500 sounded a bit more flabby and looser than the 12" 1200. If I were the OP I would just hold off on the sub for now until funds allow for a quality sub. Speaker wise the Polk RTiA line would be great for home theater speakers and are at a reduced price now.
This will be the last option I look into. Thanks for the suggestion, will let you know if I have any questions. You have these speakers or have heard them somewhere? Any speakers in this line in particular you would recommend?
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post #85 of 136 Old 07-05-2019, 09:33 AM
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Remember youre helping a complete noob. I have no idea what 12 AWG means or what a 'thicker' gauge does or is useful for if anything. I just need several recommendations on plugs/wiring from the community. All i have gathered from postings is that I want oxygen free.
Here's another recommendation. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/rocketf...?skuId=8315423

It is 16 gauge (AWG) pure copper oxygen free wiring. The "AWG" or "gauge" refers to how thick the wire is. 16 gauge is a great option for people with their AVR within normal distance (same room) of the speakers they connect to. IMO just twist and securely connect the wires at each end to the speakers and AVR. If you do want to add plugs the ones mentioned above with pics are a great option.

Longer runs can require thicker wire. Shorter runs you can use thinner wire.

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post #86 of 136 Old 07-05-2019, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
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I've had the Dayton sub-1500 and 1200 and I thought the 1200 was actually a bit better overall. The 1500 sounded a bit more flabby and looser than the 12" 1200. If I were the OP I would just hold off on the sub for now until funds allow for a quality sub. Speaker wise the Polk RTiA line would be great for home theater speakers and are at a reduced price now.
Are these really normally $400/pair? I know money doesnt necessarily always mean better quality, but I feel like to an extent it does?
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post #87 of 136 Old 07-05-2019, 09:46 AM
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Seems to me you are describing the RSL CG3/23 speakers ... maybe even add in the Speedwoofer 10s sub? Free returns if you don't like them.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

Last edited by RayGuy; 07-05-2019 at 09:49 AM.
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post #88 of 136 Old 07-05-2019, 10:05 AM
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Are these really normally $400/pair? I know money doesnt necessarily always mean better quality, but I feel like to an extent it does?
Yes they were rarely discounted in the past but it seems Polk is discounting all their lines now for some reason.

My sister in law has the lesser TSi line and they are very good so the RTi's would seem to be a very compelling bargain to me.

The Denon 2400 will have no problem at all driving those.

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/01/69014...ferent-kind-of

Add me to the list of "don't buy a cheap sub now" as the Polk RTiA3s with 6.5" woofers will play low enough to put that decision off until you have more funds available.

Wait until this subwoofer goes on sale as it has done every three months like clockwork for the past year or more.

The discounted price is usually $199.

https://www.jbl.com/studio-5-series/SUB+550P.html

Get your speaker cable here, 14 gauge is just fine. In fact buy all your cables here including HDMI.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_...RoCJUwQAvD_BwE

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post #89 of 136 Old 07-05-2019, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes they were rarely discounted in the past but it seems Polk is discounting all their lines now for some reason.

My sister in law has the lesser TSi line and they are very good so the RTi's would seem to be a very compelling bargain to me.

The Denon 2400 will have no problem at all driving those.

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/01/69014...ferent-kind-of

Add me to the list of "don't buy a cheap sub now" as the Polk RTiA3s with 6.5" woofers will play low enough to put that decision off until you have more funds available.

Wait until this subwoofer goes on sale as it has done every three months like clockwork for the past year or more.

The discounted price is usually $199.

https://www.jbl.com/studio-5-series/SUB+550P.html

Get your speaker cable here, 14 gauge is just fine. In fact buy all your cables here including HDMI.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_...RoCJUwQAvD_BwE
If that JBL sub goes on discount for $200 thats a crazy deal. I def need to keep an eye out for some subs and put them on a list and whichever goes on sale first get it! The Cherry TSiA looks really nice, not a huge fan of the black though.

Last edited by Patrick Flaherty; 07-05-2019 at 10:52 AM.
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post #90 of 136 Old 07-05-2019, 01:29 PM
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Are these really normally $400/pair? I know money doesnt necessarily always mean better quality, but I feel like to an extent it does?
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This will be the last option I look into. Thanks for the suggestion, will let you know if I have any questions. You have these speakers or have heard them somewhere? Any speakers in this line in particular you would recommend?

The Polk RTiA line is being phased out, so the line has been discounted. This phase out has supposedly been going on now for quite a while. The RTiA3 bookshelf speakers were $400/pair originally if those are the speakers you are referring to. The RTiA line is the second highest Polk line and the speaker cabinets are finished in real wood veneer, not a vinyl wrap like most speakers. They are available in black and cherry finish.


I have the Polk RTiA1 bookshelf speakers and the CSiA4 center channel. Both of these would be the most comparable to the Emotiva B1 and C1, since they all have 5.25" woofers. The RTiA1 is a bit larger speaker overall than the B1 and has a higher sensitivity of 89dB compared to 86dB for the B1, with both speakers having an impedance of 8 Ohm.. The CSiA 4 has a sensitivity of 89dB and impedance of 8 Ohm, while the C1 has a sensitivity of 89dB and impedance of 4 Ohm.



Polk does have a size up larger option in the line of bookshelf and center speakers. The RTiA3 bookshelf and CSiA6 center channel. Both of those have 6.5" woofers and larger cabinets. The CSiA6 has a front port and a rear power port, where as the CSiA4 only has a front port.



The RtiA speakers I have are the smaller in the line, but really deliver a nice detailed sound and good sound stage. They are right at home in a home theater system. The RTiA line leans to the brighter side of neutral, but certainly not a bright speaker that is uncomfortable to listen to for extended sessions. I actually don't care much for bright speakers and the RTiA speakers don't offend my ears in the least. If you wanted to try the RTiA speakers you could get them from Crutchfield and returns are only $10 shipping back to them. It's all about what your ears like and that's hard to know without hearing speakers first, since nobody can say with absolute certainty that a specific speaker will sound as good to you as it does to them.
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Subs>RBH I-12e, I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12(x2), THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000(x2). Speakers>JBL Studio 270/235c/230/225c. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith Cinema 5bs. Polk RTiA1/CSiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2,V6, XB900n,700,XB32,XB31. Sennheiser HD58X,HD4.50,PC37X. HiFiMAN HE4XX. Philips SHP9500. SIVGA SV004. SA HDTwo. HyperX CloudPS4. TB Elite AtlasAero. LG FH6,RK8,RK7,PK5. HK Onyx Studio4(x2).
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