Need advice to improve my current speakers sound , or upgrade ? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 9 Old 07-02-2019, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Need advice to improve my current speakers sound , or upgrade ?

I currently have: PSB Image 6T towers, 9C Centre , 2B Surrounds
(These were bought new around 2004) And the only part of my original HT system still in use.
60% Movies / 40% Music


My sealed HT room is 20' x 11' x 8' High :


100" screen on the long wall , with 2 reclining sofas (side by side) along the opposite long wall.
The towers are about 15' apart with the center just under the screen.


PSB's have been in constant use , as my only HT speakers , with the temperature range over the year being between 18 and 24 degrees C.


I have never had other speakers at my house to compare them with and they still sound the same to me over the years. (but they could have had some changes without me really noticing)
A year ago I got my Funk Audio Subwoofer , and the PSB's keep up great .


The items I want to "improve" on is:


1) With higher volume music situations , they can sound too bright
2) Sometimes (for movies , not music) I feel the vocals could be clearer.


But perhaps this has something to do with the source material and not just the speakers ?




I have an amateur "Audiophile" friend , he says he likes the warmer natural sound from his newer Elac speakers over my PSB's.


Have heard that toeing in the towers may help tone down the brightness, and perhaps I will try that the next time my friend comes over , and see if we can hear a difference .






I am hesitant to change my PSB speakers , as I do love them over 90% of the time .


In the past 2 years I have upgraded to the Oppo UPD-203 player and a Modern Denon AVR X4400H , and got my first real Subwoofer (Funk Audio 18.1) .


So was thinking my next upgrade should be going from 5.1 to 5.1.4 Atmos


However , Improving the LCR would be a bonus if costs can be controlled , perhaps if the toeing in works , then if needed , just a "better" center channel speaker (new or used) is all that is required .


But which one ...that is the question ?


I like to keep my gear as long as possible (over a decade) , as I am not the type to make changes just to keep up with the Jones's.




1) Other than toeing in the towers (will try that later this month) , what other suggestions do you have that I should try ?


2) Any specific new or used Center (or even tower) speakers , that would work noticeably better with my gear and room ? (don't really want to buy gear for just a slight improvement)


3) Or just forget about changing the PSB's , and do my original intention of going to 5.1.4 Atmos


4) For 5.1.4 what on ceiling (or high up on wall) speakers would you recommend ? (read that Elevation Prime are good, but any others that would be as good or better ?)


5) Any advantage to go to IN rather than ON ceiling speakers (not concerned about looks, and IN ceiling would be harder to wire in my situation but not impossible )

Denon AVR X4400H , PSB Image 6T towers, 9C Centre , 2B Surrounds
Panasonic PT-AU3000U Projector , 100" screen , Oppo UPD-203
Funk Audio 18.1 Subwoofer
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post #2 of 9 Old 07-02-2019, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Here are some photos from the web of my speakers (my center is the same color as the towers however)

Denon AVR X4400H , PSB Image 6T towers, 9C Centre , 2B Surrounds
Panasonic PT-AU3000U Projector , 100" screen , Oppo UPD-203
Funk Audio 18.1 Subwoofer
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post #3 of 9 Old 07-02-2019, 09:24 AM
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100" screen on long wall (20') and only 11' back? I would guess your speakers are outside of recommended angles so toeing in should help considerably. I had mine toed in with only one sub and they sounded better, but just not an option now with 3 subs. My screen is only 65" and my L/R are at the max of recommended angles. My surrounds are toed in to be pointing directly at me. As for ceiling speakers I like my outdoor speakers hanging down from the ceiling. I know PSB makes some that might match well with your existing speakers. Here is a picture for reference of the hanging speakers. Front wall is 11' and side wall is 10'. One recommendation I got, but haven't tried yet, is some sound absorption on my back wall to reduce reflections and brightness.
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TV: LG OLED 65B7A, Receiver: Marantz SR-6012, Blu-Ray Player: LG UBK90, Fronts: JBL S312, Center: JBL S-Center, Surrounds: JBL S38, Top: Yamaha NS-AW1, Subwoofer: 2 PSA S3000i and one PSA XS-30se--- 5.3.4 setup
http://www.blu-ray.com/community/col...&action=hybrid
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post #4 of 9 Old 07-02-2019, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JudasKiss View Post
I currently have: PSB Image 6T towers, 9C Centre , 2B Surrounds
(These were bought new around 2004) And the only part of my original HT system still in use.
60% Movies / 40% Music


My sealed HT room is 20' x 11' x 8' High :


100" screen on the long wall , with 2 reclining sofas (side by side) along the opposite long wall.
The towers are about 15' apart with the center just under the screen.


PSB's have been in constant use , as my only HT speakers , with the temperature range over the year being between 18 and 24 degrees C.


I have never had other speakers at my house to compare them with and they still sound the same to me over the years. (but they could have had some changes without me really noticing)
A year ago I got my Funk Audio Subwoofer , and the PSB's keep up great .


The items I want to "improve" on is:


1) With higher volume music situations , they can sound too bright
2) Sometimes (for movies , not music) I feel the vocals could be clearer.


But perhaps this has something to do with the source material and not just the speakers ?




I have an amateur "Audiophile" friend , he says he likes the warmer natural sound from his newer Elac speakers over my PSB's.


Have heard that toeing in the towers may help tone down the brightness, and perhaps I will try that the next time my friend comes over , and see if we can hear a difference .






I am hesitant to change my PSB speakers , as I do love them over 90% of the time .


In the past 2 years I have upgraded to the Oppo UPD-203 player and a Modern Denon AVR X4400H , and got my first real Subwoofer (Funk Audio 18.1) .


So was thinking my next upgrade should be going from 5.1 to 5.1.4 Atmos


However , Improving the LCR would be a bonus if costs can be controlled , perhaps if the toeing in works , then if needed , just a "better" center channel speaker (new or used) is all that is required .


But which one ...that is the question ?


I like to keep my gear as long as possible (over a decade) , as I am not the type to make changes just to keep up with the Jones's.




1) Other than toeing in the towers (will try that later this month) , what other suggestions do you have that I should try ?


2) Any specific new or used Center (or even tower) speakers , that would work noticeably better with my gear and room ? (don't really want to buy gear for just a slight improvement)


3) Or just forget about changing the PSB's , and do my original intention of going to 5.1.4 Atmos


4) For 5.1.4 what on ceiling (or high up on wall) speakers would you recommend ? (read that Elevation Prime are good, but any others that would be as good or better ?)


5) Any advantage to go to IN rather than ON ceiling speakers (not concerned about looks, and IN ceiling would be harder to wire in my situation but not impossible )
With the towers 15' apart and listening distance I'm guessing about 8', you definitely toe them in. Ideally you want to create an equidistant triangle between speakers and MLP, though not always possible.

How is the center placed and how close to the floor is it? A picture(s) would be very helpful.
Are your speakers set to small with an 80hz crossover?

Kef LS50,Q200C, Q100, SVS SB-2000, Denon AVR-X3400H, NAD 216, Panasonic 50" Plasma, Xbox One.
Bedroom: JBL Loft 50 , Loft 20, Bic F-12, Denon AVR-S710W, PS3, 32" Insigna LED.
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post #5 of 9 Old 07-02-2019, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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I just say 100" screen as a generic number, the actual size is 90 something.... (I forget off the top of my head , as I got the screen and 1080p front projector a decade ago)


The towers are somewhat toed in , but probably not enough .




Would it make a difference if I had the towers angled upwards ?


Perhaps currently the tweeter is right at ear height when seated , and with it pointed a bit more upwards I would get more mid and less highs from the tower ??

Denon AVR X4400H , PSB Image 6T towers, 9C Centre , 2B Surrounds
Panasonic PT-AU3000U Projector , 100" screen , Oppo UPD-203
Funk Audio 18.1 Subwoofer
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post #6 of 9 Old 07-02-2019, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
With the towers 15' apart and listening distance I'm guessing about 8', you definitely toe them in. Ideally you want to create an equidistant triangle between speakers and MLP, though not always possible.

How is the center placed and how close to the floor is it? A picture(s) would be very helpful.
Are your speakers set to small with an 80hz crossover?


I will try to take some pics this week of my room to give everyone a better understanding .




I have the center on a long custom made, low Maple cabinet (it contains my CD, DVD, Blu-ray collection and other miscellaneous items )


The cabinet is about 16 or 18 inches high and center speaker sits directly on it.


Now that you mention it , would it make an difference to see if angling the center up slightly to ear level makes a difference to the TV/movie vocal clarity ?

Denon AVR X4400H , PSB Image 6T towers, 9C Centre , 2B Surrounds
Panasonic PT-AU3000U Projector , 100" screen , Oppo UPD-203
Funk Audio 18.1 Subwoofer
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post #7 of 9 Old 07-02-2019, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JudasKiss View Post
I will try to take some pics this week of my room to give everyone a better understanding .




I have the center on a long custom made, low Maple cabinet (it contains my CD, DVD, Blu-ray collection and other miscellaneous items )


The cabinet is about 16 or 18 inches high and center speaker sits directly on it.


Now that you mention it , would it make an difference to see if angling the center up slightly to ear level makes a difference to the TV/movie vocal clarity ?
Pointing the center tweeter at ear level could make a difference. As far as toe in goes, you'll have to experiment with that until you find the right angle. If all else fails get yourself some Kef Q750's. They image very well, have wide dispersion and excellent off axis performance which may be beneficial to your current layout.

Kef LS50,Q200C, Q100, SVS SB-2000, Denon AVR-X3400H, NAD 216, Panasonic 50" Plasma, Xbox One.
Bedroom: JBL Loft 50 , Loft 20, Bic F-12, Denon AVR-S710W, PS3, 32" Insigna LED.
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post #8 of 9 Old 07-02-2019, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Chmiel View Post
100" screen on long wall (20') and only 11' back? I would guess your speakers are outside of recommended angles so toeing in should help considerably. I had mine toed in with only one sub and they sounded better, but just not an option now with 3 subs. My screen is only 65" and my L/R are at the max of recommended angles. My surrounds are toed in to be pointing directly at me. As for ceiling speakers I like my outdoor speakers hanging down from the ceiling. I know PSB makes some that might match well with your existing speakers. Here is a picture for reference of the hanging speakers. Front wall is 11' and side wall is 10'. One recommendation I got, but haven't tried yet, is some sound absorption on my back wall to reduce reflections and brightness.

Thanks for the picture, the main difference in my setup is that my Sub in front next to (and inside) the right tower; and my seats are along the wall with less than a foot of space behind the sofa's.


To get to 5.1.4 :


Rear Overhead speakers : Should I place them right above the sofa's (a foot from rear wall , and above the most outside seats ) ? Each sofa has 3 seats and the sofa's are side by side


Front Overhead Speakers : How far forward of the seating positions would be best (or how many feet forward of the rear overhead speakers is best)
I take it that front would be in line with the rears (width wise) ?



Sound absorption panel :


How do I know if I need them , and where to place them ? (about how much would they cost?)


Any way to make or buy cheap ones, to test if they will help or how many will be required ? (before spending money on permanent ones )

Denon AVR X4400H , PSB Image 6T towers, 9C Centre , 2B Surrounds
Panasonic PT-AU3000U Projector , 100" screen , Oppo UPD-203
Funk Audio 18.1 Subwoofer
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post #9 of 9 Old 07-02-2019, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JudasKiss View Post
Thanks for the picture, the main difference in my setup is that my Sub in front next to (and inside) the right tower; and my seats are along the wall with less than a foot of space behind the sofa's.


To get to 5.1.4 :


Rear Overhead speakers : Should I place them right above the sofa's (a foot from rear wall , and above the most outside seats ) ? Each sofa has 3 seats and the sofa's are side by side


Front Overhead Speakers : How far forward of the seating positions would be best (or how many feet forward of the rear overhead speakers is best)
I take it that front would be in line with the rears (width wise) ?



Sound absorption panel :


How do I know if I need them , and where to place them ? (about how much would they cost?)


Any way to make or buy cheap ones, to test if they will help or how many will be required ? (before spending money on permanent ones )
Dolby recommends to be in line with front L/R but being yours are outside recommended angles maybe bring them in to center a little. Make sure surrounds are brought down to ear level if not already there. Top rear I would put all the way back against the wall on the ceiling. That will give some sense of behind. For top front, if straight above seat is 0 degrees, then 45 degress forward wherever that lands on the ceiling.

Dolby Guidelines
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/speaker-...des/index.html

As for sound absorption, that is still something I am learning/looking into.
Link of info recommended to me.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...els-cheap.html

Link of something basic I am considering for my lazy bleep.
https://www.audimute.com/acoustical-...is_active%5D=1

TV: LG OLED 65B7A, Receiver: Marantz SR-6012, Blu-Ray Player: LG UBK90, Fronts: JBL S312, Center: JBL S-Center, Surrounds: JBL S38, Top: Yamaha NS-AW1, Subwoofer: 2 PSA S3000i and one PSA XS-30se--- 5.3.4 setup
http://www.blu-ray.com/community/col...&action=hybrid
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