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post #1 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 04:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Help Upgrading Front Channels

Hello all - looking for some advice for my home theater.

Currently have 3.1 setup (Yamaha RX-V683, Klipsch R-12 Sub, Def Tech Procenter 1000, 2x Polk OWM3 as LR, yes I know it's not great but budget is a big factor here). I'm looking to push the Polks to surrounds and add good quality LR.

About my situation: WAF is huge, probably most important factor. Second factor is budget, but it can flex - any money saved is a plus, but MAX budget is around 1000. I use system mostly for TV and movies (80%), but love playing music (anything from classical and jazz to rock, don't need huge sound, just enough to hear well across the room) when wife is away through the open concept living, kitchen, dining (50 x 50 x 8 approx.)

All that being said, the speakers I was going for were the Def Tech Promonitor 1000s as they have a 5.25" driver, are WAF approved, low cost, timbre match, etc. However, I showed the wife some Mythos Nine's yesterday and to my surprise they are WAF approved as well! She is very much anti-tower, so it must be wall mounted and fairly thin (probably no studio monitors or bookshelf speakers here, PM1000s the exception because they're still somewhat low profile).

Here's my ultimate question: I love the Mythos Nine's and would love to get them, but I'm not sure they are enough improvement over the PM1000s to justify the cost (already brought up in another forum and pretty much confirmed this). That being said, I like the look of the vertical, wall mounted, thinner profile speakers and feel with the vertical approach I might have more potential for some better sound (due to more room for additional drivers). Knowing that timbre matching isn't as important right now (I can upgrade center in the future depending on LR, they're priority for me), what suggestions do you have for wall mounted speakers for my situation that could provide a little more power and decent quality for me over the PM1000s?

Thanks in advance for any help!
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post #2 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 06:18 AM
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Try these see if they pass the WAF. I feel sorry for guys in your sitch, cause my wife’s pretty cool about all this stuff as long as I’m not making us broke and the changes aren’t all time. And I reciprocate with her stuff.

https://nationwidestereo.com/product...hoCnJoQAvD_BwE

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post #3 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by engineer0928 View Post
Hello all - looking for some advice for my home theater.

Currently have 3.1 setup (Yamaha RX-V683, Klipsch R-12 Sub, Def Tech Procenter 1000, 2x Polk OWM3 as LR, yes I know it's not great but budget is a big factor here). I'm looking to push the Polks to surrounds and add good quality LR.

About my situation: WAF is huge, probably most important factor. Second factor is budget, but it can flex - any money saved is a plus, but MAX budget is around 1000. I use system mostly for TV and movies (80%), but love playing music (anything from classical and jazz to rock, don't need huge sound, just enough to hear well across the room) when wife is away through the open concept living, kitchen, dining (50 x 50 x 8 approx.)

All that being said, the speakers I was going for were the Def Tech Promonitor 1000s as they have a 5.25" driver, are WAF approved, low cost, timbre match, etc. However, I showed the wife some Mythos Nine's yesterday and to my surprise they are WAF approved as well! She is very much anti-tower, so it must be wall mounted and fairly thin (probably no studio monitors or bookshelf speakers here, PM1000s the exception because they're still somewhat low profile).

Here's my ultimate question: I love the Mythos Nine's and would love to get them, but I'm not sure they are enough improvement over the PM1000s to justify the cost (already brought up in another forum and pretty much confirmed this). That being said, I like the look of the vertical, wall mounted, thinner profile speakers and feel with the vertical approach I might have more potential for some better sound (due to more room for additional drivers). Knowing that timbre matching isn't as important right now (I can upgrade center in the future depending on LR, they're priority for me), what suggestions do you have for wall mounted speakers for my situation that could provide a little more power and decent quality for me over the PM1000s?
Well, as long as you're ok with the inherent SQ compromises of these types of super thin/flat speakers vs traditional cabinet speakers, why not? But you might be equally if not more happy with these HTD low profile on-wall speakers, which cost half as much as the DTs and come with free return shipping just in case:
https://www.htd.com/VERSA-HTS1

The savings can go into upgrading your sub; the Monolith THX 10" and 12" subs have seen some nice discounts the last few days and people routinely rave about them.
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post #4 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by engineer0928 View Post
what suggestions do you have for wall mounted speakers for my situation that could provide a little more power and decent quality for me over the PM1000s?

Thanks in advance for any help!
Easy for me is the Canton on-wall speakers -- sold each and a good price
https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ck-each/1.html

The Canton GLE 416 is sold by the pair -- and a good tweeter
https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ck-pair/1.html

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post #5 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engineer0928 View Post
Hello all - looking for some advice for my home theater.

Currently have 3.1 setup (Yamaha RX-V683, Klipsch R-12 Sub, Def Tech Procenter 1000, 2x Polk OWM3 as LR, yes I know it's not great but budget is a big factor here). I'm looking to push the Polks to surrounds and add good quality LR.

About my situation: WAF is huge, probably most important factor. Second factor is budget, but it can flex - any money saved is a plus, but MAX budget is around 1000. I use system mostly for TV and movies (80%), but love playing music (anything from classical and jazz to rock, don't need huge sound, just enough to hear well across the room) when wife is away through the open concept living, kitchen, dining (50 x 50 x 8 approx.)

All that being said, the speakers I was going for were the Def Tech Promonitor 1000s as they have a 5.25" driver, are WAF approved, low cost, timbre match, etc. However, I showed the wife some Mythos Nine's yesterday and to my surprise they are WAF approved as well! She is very much anti-tower, so it must be wall mounted and fairly thin (probably no studio monitors or bookshelf speakers here, PM1000s the exception because they're still somewhat low profile).

Here's my ultimate question: I love the Mythos Nine's and would love to get them, but I'm not sure they are enough improvement over the PM1000s to justify the cost (already brought up in another forum and pretty much confirmed this). That being said, I like the look of the vertical, wall mounted, thinner profile speakers and feel with the vertical approach I might have more potential for some better sound (due to more room for additional drivers). Knowing that timbre matching isn't as important right now (I can upgrade center in the future depending on LR, they're priority for me), what suggestions do you have for wall mounted speakers for my situation that could provide a little more power and decent quality for me over the PM1000s?

Thanks in advance for any help!
For $1000 there are very good bookshelf speakers with good aesthetics that would be a significant upgrade over the Pro monitors. If the Mrs won't compromise at all, you'll be limiting your options and be sacrificing sound quality. These Canton Vento's would be among your better options if you're stuck with on wall speakers.
https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...specifications
The Above recommended Paradigm also a decent option.

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post #6 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the responses! I've got all of them written down and will continue looking into each. A few follow up questions:

1. The Canton's have lower sensitivity - I'm still new to the audio game, will a sensitivity around 86 be an issue compared to above 90 of some of the other options?

2. I've heard really good things about the Paradigms, but am curious about the frequency response - I know most specs should be taken with a grain of salt, but the Paradigms don't appear to have much mid range. Obviously they're getting reviewed well for a reason - any comments or concerns about a limited range?

3. I'm still a big fan of Def Tech and found a good deal on some Mythos Tens for about 400 each. Any thoughts on these in the mix?

4. Of the options (Canton, HTD, Paradigm, DT Mythos 10), which would be the best for movies, and which would be best for music? I think they would all pass WAF, and cost looks good, so now I just have to figure out which one....

Thanks for the input everyone - this is really helping out someone with more questions than answers!
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post #7 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by engineer0928 View Post
Thanks for all the responses! I've got all of them written down and will continue looking into each. A few follow up questions:

1. The Canton's have lower sensitivity - I'm still new to the audio game, will a sensitivity around 86 be an issue compared to above 90 of some of the other options?

3. I'm still a big fan of Def Tech and found a good deal on some Mythos Tens for about 400 each. Any thoughts on these in the mix?

4. Of the options (Canton, HTD, Paradigm, DT Mythos 10), which would be the best for movies, and which would be best for music? I think they would all pass WAF, and cost looks good, so now I just have to figure out which one....

Thanks for the input everyone - this is really helping out someone with more questions than answers!
Most speakers that tend to quote higher sensitivity end up being somewhat optimistic. I have owned speakers from Paradigm, HTD, Definitive, and Canton ... I prefer the Canton over all the others, and the Canton is not timid, they are more honest with their sensitivity specs. If you do choose Canton, and budget permits, then the Vento is the best, then the Chrono, and then the GLE .... here is the link for the Chrono
https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ck-pair/1.html

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post #8 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engineer0928 View Post
Thanks for all the responses! I've got all of them written down and will continue looking into each. A few follow up questions:

1. The Canton's have lower sensitivity - I'm still new to the audio game, will a sensitivity around 86 be an issue compared to above 90 of some of the other options?

2. I've heard really good things about the Paradigms, but am curious about the frequency response - I know most specs should be taken with a grain of salt, but the Paradigms don't appear to have much mid range. Obviously they're getting reviewed well for a reason - any comments or concerns about a limited range?

3. I'm still a big fan of Def Tech and found a good deal on some Mythos Tens for about 400 each. Any thoughts on these in the mix?

4. Of the options (Canton, HTD, Paradigm, DT Mythos 10), which would be the best for movies, and which would be best for music? I think they would all pass WAF, and cost looks good, so now I just have to figure out which one....

Thanks for the input everyone - this is really helping out someone with more questions than answers!
Can you audition the Mythos Tens at home and return if not happy?

That would be ideal.

Problem with Accessories4less is that returns can be very very expensive as they charge the true cost of 2 way shipping plus a 15% restocking fee if you return them.

So a pair of $500 bookshelves could cost $200 to return.

They sell some great stuff, don't get me wrong, but you need to be fully aware of their return policy if you are buying something you've never heard before.

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post #9 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 11:11 AM
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Can you audition the Mythos Tens at home and return if not happy?



That would be ideal.



Problem with Accessories4less is that returns can be very very expensive as they charge the true cost of 2 way shipping plus a 15% restocking fee if you return them.



So a pair of $500 bookshelves could cost $200 to return.



They sell some great stuff, don't get me wrong, but you need to be fully aware of their return policy if you are buying something you've never heard before.


Crutchfield is by far the best way to test speakers. Amazon does do free returns but not on every thing.

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post #10 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Most speakers that tend to quote higher sensitivity end up being somewhat optimistic. I have owned speakers from Paradigm, HTD, Definitive, and Canton ... I prefer the Canton over all the others, and the Canton is not timid, they are more honest with their sensitivity specs. If you do choose Canton, and budget permits, then the Vento is the best, then the Chrono, and then the GLE .... here is the link for the Chrono
https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ck-pair/1.html
I'm really liking how the Canton's look, and especially if you say they are more honest - I know Def Tech is VERY optimistic with all their specs. I'll look into these more - thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Can you audition the Mythos Tens at home and return if not happy?

That would be ideal.

Problem with Accessories4less is that returns can be very very expensive as they charge the true cost of 2 way shipping plus a 15% restocking fee if you return them.

So a pair of $500 bookshelves could cost $200 to return.

They sell some great stuff, don't get me wrong, but you need to be fully aware of their return policy if you are buying something you've never heard before.
I hadn't considered this, and appreciate the heads up. I live in rural Ohio, far away from any place I could demo these, so I would have to purchase and return. I do plan on using A4L to purchase these, or look on Ebay/CL for good deals.

Follow up question regarding A4L - how can they sell brand new speakers for 75% off? Is it all overstock? Anything to be concerned about by purchasing through them?
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post #11 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 11:20 AM
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Follow up question regarding A4L - how can they sell brand new speakers for 75% off? Is it all overstock? Anything to be concerned about by purchasing through them?
AC4L is an authorized dealer

Many speakers that are sold new from AC4L are overstock or close-outs from former series -- many of us have bought speakers from AC4L and are glad that we did so and the speakers were new and unopened .... and many would buy from them again. They have been in business a long time.

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post #12 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 11:40 AM
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I'm really liking how the Canton's look, and especially if you say they are more honest - I know Def Tech is VERY optimistic with all their specs. I'll look into these more - thanks!
However, Canton like Definitive and some others do get optimistic about their bass specs ..... I would keep them Cantons on a short list

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post #13 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 11:41 AM
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I'm really liking how the Canton's look, and especially if you say they are more honest - I know Def Tech is VERY optimistic with all their specs. I'll look into these more - thanks!



I hadn't considered this, and appreciate the heads up. I live in rural Ohio, far away from any place I could demo these, so I would have to purchase and return. I do plan on using A4L to purchase these, or look on Ebay/CL for good deals.

Follow up question regarding A4L - how can they sell brand new speakers for 75% off? Is it all overstock? Anything to be concerned about by purchasing through them?
I think A4L inflates the prices of Cantons for example and many of their items are factory refurbished but not all.

Plus they mostly sell discontinued models.

They do sell the current Canton Chrono 513 which they say has a list price of $976/pair when on the Canton website they are 698 Euros per pair.

698 Euros is $786 and A4L sells them for $420 which they claim is 57% off MSRP.

It is a good deal but 40% off msrp not 57%.

Personally I'm fine with factory refurbished with a steep discount.

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post #14 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 11:45 AM
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I think A4L inflates the prices of Cantons for example and many of their items are factory refurbished but not all.

Plus they mostly sell discontinued models.

They do sell the current Canton Chrono 513 which they say has a list price of $976/pair when on the Canton website they are 698 Euros per pair.

698 Euros is $786 and A4L sells them for $420 which they claim is 57% off MSRP..
Sound Approach a Canton USA dealer ... and for the 513 is listed at $976
https://soundapproach.com/canton-chr...kers-pair.html

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post #15 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 12:25 PM
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Sound Approach a Canton USA dealer ... and for the 513 is listed at $976
https://soundapproach.com/canton-chr...kers-pair.html
Very good, thanks.

Interestingly when I go to the KEF dealer locator (can't find one for Canton) and I punch in A4ls zip code they don't come up as an authorized dealer.

Same for Focal.

The only authorized on line dealers for Focal are listed here along with a caveat that if you buy from an unauthorized dealer your warranty is no good.

https://www.focal-america.com/support/

NOTE: Products bought from a non-authorized retailer do not carry the original Focal warranty. This means that if you buy from a non-authorized retailer and you encounter a problem with the product, you will have to go back to that retailer to get help and we cannot guarantee the quality of the assistance you will then receive.

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post #16 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 01:06 PM
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Very good, thanks.

Interestingly when I go to the KEF dealer locator (can't find one for Canton) and I punch in A4ls zip code they don't come up as an authorized dealer.
AC4L has taken care of the Canton customers in the past -- one former owner blew one of his woofers and Canton/AC4L gave them a woofer.

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4. Of the options (Canton, HTD, Paradigm, DT Mythos 10), which would be the best for movies, and which would be best for music? I think they would all pass WAF, and cost looks good, so now I just have to figure out which one....
For HT I'd expect them to be pretty close.

For music, if you really care about SQ, I'd toss all these high-WAF slimline speakers and focus on real speakers with real cabinets.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #18 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by engineer0928 View Post
Hello all - looking for some advice for my home theater.

Currently have 3.1 setup (Yamaha RX-V683, Klipsch R-12 Sub, Def Tech Procenter 1000, 2x Polk OWM3 as LR, yes I know it's not great but budget is a big factor here). I'm looking to push the Polks to surrounds and add good quality LR.

About my situation: WAF is huge, probably most important factor. Second factor is budget, but it can flex - any money saved is a plus, but MAX budget is around 1000. I use system mostly for TV and movies (80%), but love playing music (anything from classical and jazz to rock, don't need huge sound, just enough to hear well across the room) when wife is away through the open concept living, kitchen, dining (50 x 50 x 8 approx.)

All that being said, the speakers I was going for were the Def Tech Promonitor 1000s as they have a 5.25" driver, are WAF approved, low cost, timbre match, etc. However, I showed the wife some Mythos Nine's yesterday and to my surprise they are WAF approved as well! She is very much anti-tower, so it must be wall mounted and fairly thin (probably no studio monitors or bookshelf speakers here, PM1000s the exception because they're still somewhat low profile).

Here's my ultimate question: I love the Mythos Nine's and would love to get them, but I'm not sure they are enough improvement over the PM1000s to justify the cost (already brought up in another forum and pretty much confirmed this). That being said, I like the look of the vertical, wall mounted, thinner profile speakers and feel with the vertical approach I might have more potential for some better sound (due to more room for additional drivers). Knowing that timbre matching isn't as important right now (I can upgrade center in the future depending on LR, they're priority for me), what suggestions do you have for wall mounted speakers for my situation that could provide a little more power and decent quality for me over the PM1000s?

Thanks in advance for any help!
You might find this review helpful. There are compromises with this sort of form factor, so be aware!

https://forums.audioholics.com/forum...essions.78646/

However, if you are set on this type of speaker, you might consider the Phase Tech Teatro Line (if you can find a demo) and negotiate a nice discount:

https://soundapproach.com/phase-tech...ker-single.htm

One additional comment ... you are asking a lot of a speaker to play loudly at a distance of 40-something feet. You lose volume with distance, and in order to get 75 dB (comfortable listening level) at that distance, you are asking the speakers to produce in the neighborhood of 95dB (at one meter). You would be much better off installing a secondary set of speakers in the kitchen or dining area, thus reducing the need for massive volume from your on-wall speakers, volumes they were not designed to deliver.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

Last edited by RayGuy; 07-11-2019 at 02:19 PM.
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post #19 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 03:16 PM
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Very good, thanks.

Interestingly when I go to the KEF dealer locator (can't find one for Canton) and I punch in A4ls zip code they don't come up as an authorized dealer.
here is your KEF info ... online authorized
https://us.kef.com/kef-unauthorized-retailers/

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