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post #1 of 41 Old 07-21-2019, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Thoughts on new LR?

Hey guys!

Currently using some Martin Logan Ethos speakers. Have Logan ESL C18 center and motion 40 as rears. Using Rythmik Audio G25HP for sub, and Marantz 8805 + Krell 5200 for power. I have been thinking of bumping up in their product line but also considering more traditional box speakers. Several dealers and forums have suggested getting away from Electrostat panels, since I'm 90-95% movies and gaming. They are better suited for music, so they're not entirely necessary. In other words, going w/ more traditional speaker design would work better for my usage. So, I could get a speaker not as expensive if need be.

I haven't looked at new front stage for quite some time, so looking for some advice. I'm totally open to used/floor model market, budget isn't a huge concern. After selling Ethos (if I do), could go as high as $5K+...but could also go w/ a cheaper speaker than what I have its better suited for me.

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post #2 of 41 Old 07-21-2019, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Ethos4Lyfe View Post
Hey guys!



Currently using some amazing Martin Logan Ethos speakers. Have Logan ESL C18 center and motion 40 as rears. Using Rythmik Audio G25HP for sub, and Marantz 8805 + Krell 5200 for power. I have been thinking of bumping up in their product line but also considering more traditional box speakers. Several high end dealers and forums have suggested getting away from Electrostat panels, since I'm 90-95% movies and gaming. They are better suited for music, so they're not entirely necessary. I haven't looked at new front stage for quite some time, so looking for some advice. I'm totally open to used/floor model market, so budget is probably $5K-7500. Thoughts/help?
Now that's a budget!

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post #3 of 41 Old 07-21-2019, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Now that's a budget!

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Haha, not sure if you're serious or not? I mean, I figure that should open a pretty big range. I may just stick w/ Logan stats, but open to something else too. BTW - did you sell those FV25s?
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post #4 of 41 Old 07-21-2019, 09:04 PM
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Definitely take a look at Revel. Their third best speakers, the F208Be’s are in your price range.
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #5 of 41 Old 07-21-2019, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Ethos4Lyfe View Post
Haha, not sure if you're serious or not? I mean, I figure that should open a pretty big range. I may just stick w/ Logan stats, but open to something else too. BTW - did you sell those FV25s?
No I'm serious lol wish I had that budget for LCR said the one who bought 2 fv25hp lol I have someone who gave me 500 deposit to hold 1 but the other no bite. Tough sell in the so cal I guess lol

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post #6 of 41 Old 07-21-2019, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Ethos4Lyfe View Post
Hey guys!

Currently using some amazing Martin Logan Ethos speakers. Have Logan ESL C18 center and motion 40 as rears. Using Rythmik Audio G25HP for sub, and Marantz 8805 + Krell 5200 for power. I have been thinking of bumping up in their product line but also considering more traditional box speakers. Several high end dealers and forums have suggested getting away from Electrostat panels, since I'm 90-95% movies and gaming. They are better suited for music, so they're not entirely necessary. I haven't looked at new front stage for quite some time, so looking for some advice. I'm totally open to used/floor model market, so budget is probably $5K-7500. Thoughts/help?
If you’re happy keep them, who cares what others think about your setup or how you use them. If you’re looking for a change start the auditioning process. At that budget there’s a lot of great options.
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post #7 of 41 Old 07-21-2019, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethos4Lyfe View Post
Hey guys!

Currently using some amazing Martin Logan Ethos speakers. Have Logan ESL C18 center and motion 40 as rears. Using Rythmik Audio G25HP for sub, and Marantz 8805 + Krell 5200 for power. I have been thinking of bumping up in their product line but also considering more traditional box speakers. Several high end dealers and forums have suggested getting away from Electrostat panels, since I'm 90-95% movies and gaming. They are better suited for music, so they're not entirely necessary. I haven't looked at new front stage for quite some time, so looking for some advice. I'm totally open to used/floor model market, so budget is probably $5K-7500. Thoughts/help?
If you find your current speakers "amazing" then WTF do you care what a bunch of slimy/greedy salesmen and pretentious schmucks think?

$5,000-7,500 would pay for a damn nice vacation or two.
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #8 of 41 Old 07-21-2019, 09:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
If you find your current speakers "amazing" then WTF do you care what a bunch of slimy/greedy salesmen and pretentious schmucks think?

$5,000-7,500 would pay for a damn nice vacation or two.
I guess I should have phrased this differently.....I refer to them as amazing, but I've always wanted the bigger panels. I've been told a lot that electrostat panels are overkill for movies/gaming, so I could go w/ something smaller or downgraded. I was just listing my budget I would be willing to consider. That's including the money I will get for selling my Ethos speakers. I guess I'm looking for input from anybody that has also gone from panels to traditional speakers for movies/gaming.
So, it could be a downgrade if need be - the Ethos were like $7K when new. Thanks for any input
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post #9 of 41 Old 07-21-2019, 09:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tuner1129 View Post
No I'm serious lol wish I had that budget for LCR said the one who bought 2 fv25hp lol I have someone who gave me 500 deposit to hold 1 but the other no bite. Tough sell in the so cal I guess lol

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haha! so true. well that will include the money i take in from selling my current speakers. so, ideally would be much less.
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post #10 of 41 Old 07-21-2019, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Ethos4Lyfe View Post
I guess I should have phrased this differently.....I refer to them as amazing, but I've always wanted the bigger panels.
Yeah, so spend your money on those and enjoy!
Oh, and send me your current ones, so they aren't in the way...
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Originally Posted by Ethos4Lyfe View Post
I've been told a lot that electrostat panels are overkill for movies/gaming
Screw that, if you like 'em, no foul. Their lightness/transient characteristics are still good for those applications.
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so I could go w/ something smaller or downgraded.
For the love of god, Montresor, no, no, NO!!
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post #11 of 41 Old 07-21-2019, 09:38 PM
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(snip)
For the love of god, Montresor, no, no, NO!!
A little Poe-etry, eh?
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post #12 of 41 Old 07-21-2019, 09:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, so spend your money on those and enjoy!
Oh, and send me your current ones, so they aren't in the way...
Screw that, if you like 'em, no foul. Their lightness/transient characteristics are still good for those applications.
For the love of god, Montresor, no, no, NO!!
Yeah, I'm mainly thinking of their 11a or 13a..selling my Ethos for probably $2,500
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post #13 of 41 Old 07-21-2019, 10:01 PM
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I think what we have here is speaker boredom and wanting to try new things.

And that is the great thing about this hobby. We just don't want you to regret your decision to sell your current panels. Paging @muscles !

If you want to audition what's out there, I would actually start with stand-mounted speakers. It is much more expensive to audition floorstanders, and they mostly just reach further into the bass region. You'll figure out if you like the sound of a line of speakers by trying their bookshelf/standmounts first.

So some that come to mind:

Ohm Walsh
Ascend Sierra 2 EX
Vapor
Salk
Selah
Buchardt S400
Dynaudio Special 40
Harbeth Monitors
Totem Elements
Dali Epicon
Revel M126Be
PMC twenty5.22

Feel free to add to the list.
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post #14 of 41 Old 07-21-2019, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Ethos4Lyfe View Post
traditional speakers for movies/gaming.
So, it could be a downgrade if need be - the Ethos were like $7K when new. Thanks for any input
"movies/gaming" IMO do not merit much more than a modest investment, unless you have a humongous room where you're sitting 15-25ft away from the speakers AND you like to listen at extremely loud levels. You already have an excellent sub, so I'd say just experiment with some different speaker types: namely, domes, horns, and various forms of planar/ribbon tweeters coupled with traditional woofers.

Whatever you do, do NOT let yourself be suckered into the "you get what you pay for" salesman's bread-and-butter sales pitch. It's entirely possible that something like these $1K/pr JBL towers might make you plenty happy (and I think that JBL actually does provide free return shipping even on towers, call them to verify).
https://www.jbl.com/loudspeakers/STUDIO+590.html

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #15 of 41 Old 07-21-2019, 11:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I think what we have here is speaker boredom and wanting to try new things.

And that is the great thing about this hobby. We just don't want you to regret your decision to sell your current panels. Paging @muscles !

If you want to audition what's out there, I would actually start with stand-mounted speakers. It is much more expensive to audition floorstanders, and they mostly just reach further into the bass region. You'll figure out if you like the sound of a line of speakers by trying their bookshelf/standmounts first.

So some that come to mind:

Ascend Sierra 2 EX
Buchardt S400
Dynaudio Special 40
Harbeth Monitors
Totem Elements
Dali Epicon
Revel M126Be

Feel free to add to the list.
Funny, Greg and I have been texting about this. If I wanna stick w/ electrostats, I would have to bump up to his most likely to notice a difference. I worry about mixing main speakers - I have the hybrid ESL center from Martin Logan. Not sure the front stage will sound correct if I switch the LR now...so, maybe I just wait and go higher on their line
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
"movies/gaming" IMO do not merit much more than a modest investment, unless you have a humongous room where you're sitting 15-25ft away from the speakers AND you like to listen at extremely loud levels. You already have an excellent sub, so I'd say just experiment with some different speaker types: namely, domes, horns, and various forms of planar/ribbon tweeters coupled with traditional woofers.

Whatever you do, do NOT let yourself be suckered into the "you get what you pay for" salesman's bread-and-butter sales pitch. It's entirely possible that something like these $1K/pr JBL towers might make you plenty happy (and I think that JBL actually does provide free return shipping even on towers, call them to verify).
https://www.jbl.com/loudspeakers/STUDIO+590.html
Yeah, my room isn't super big and I don't sit far away. Or listen at super loud levels because of shared walls. That's why I was thinking that maybe in this house, I coudl try out something new that's a step down from what I have. But, a big concern is mixing brands/speakers for the front stage. I have their hybrid ESL center, so might not sound as great when paired w/ box speakers from other brands.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
"movies/gaming" IMO do not merit much more than a modest investment, unless you have a humongous room where you're sitting 15-25ft away from the speakers AND you like to listen at extremely loud levels. You already have an excellent sub, so I'd say just experiment with some different speaker types: namely, domes, horns, and various forms of planar/ribbon tweeters coupled with traditional woofers.



Whatever you do, do NOT let yourself be suckered into the "you get what you pay for" salesman's bread-and-butter sales pitch. It's entirely possible that something like these $1K/pr JBL towers might make you plenty happy (and I think that JBL actually does provide free return shipping even on towers, call them to verify).

https://www.jbl.com/loudspeakers/STUDIO+590.html
Im new to the higher end equipment but I been suckered into this trick. Is how I bought my B&W 702s towers that's yes they sounded nice but blew them farely easily. Now my klipsch rp-600m sound good for me at a fraction of the price and can handle the power I give it.

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post #18 of 41 Old 07-22-2019, 09:02 AM
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Is how I bought my B&W 702s towers that's yes they sounded nice but blew them farely easily. Now my klipsch rp-600m sound good for me at a fraction of the price and can handle the power I give it.
yep, I would never even consider B&W for HT usage, especially if high volume/dynamics is one's main priority.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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Originally Posted by Ethos4Lyfe View Post
Yeah, my room isn't super big and I don't sit far away. Or listen at super loud levels because of shared walls. That's why I was thinking that maybe in this house, I coudl try out something new that's a step down from what I have. But, a big concern is mixing brands/speakers for the front stage. I have their hybrid ESL center, so might not sound as great when paired w/ box speakers from other brands.
Well, there's no harm just buying the L/R and seeing how your current ESL center works with them---a lot of folks (myself including) find the whole "timbre matching" dogma to be irrelevant in actual practice. A good center is a good center, just needs to deliver excellent voice clarity so that you can understand dialogue effortlessly, have your receiver level-match it and anything clear and neutral enough not to call attention to itself will easily do the job---don't fall for the flowery "audiophile" mumbo-jumbo.

With your incredibly generous budget you can easily afford to experiment with 2-3 sets of LCR speakers including return shipping for the ones that don't satisfy you...at the end of the day, who knows maybe you'll have a brand new appreciation of your current speakers after sending them all back! Only one way to find out...personally I wouldn't spend much more than $1K for the front 3 if doing bookshelves, and no more than $1500 if doing towers...the point of diminishing returns hits very quickly in this hobby, even if those who've been suckered into spending a lot more money would rather cut off their noses than admit it.
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #21 of 41 Old 07-22-2019, 10:57 AM
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Given that you will not be using these speakers for much in the way of music (perhaps you could use your current speakers for a music listening room?), the quality of the speaker is not all that important (ducks). So, spending less might be the better solution. One caveat to this is that you have been listening to your current speakers for a while, and they have trained your ears to hear what they produce. If you downgrade, you may find that you become unhappy with the new speakers pretty quickly. You'll need to demo extensively to avoid this outcome.

Now, as to the next step ... I would find and inhabit the listening room of every speaker purveyor within 200 miles. Put a list together of some of your favorite music (yeah, makes no sense to use music, but that's the best approach). Try to have a wide variety of music types, including female and male vocals, large orchestral, live club blues or jazz, something bassy, piano. Equalize the volume (dB meter is handy or drop one down to your phone), and just listen (to the speakers, NOT the salesperson). Take a few notes re your likes/dislikes.

Take your time and do it right. It's an iterative process. First, learning your own likes and dislikes, then finding the speaker or type of speaker that best fits your taste. Once you get it down to two or three options, demo in your home before making a final decision.
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post #22 of 41 Old 07-22-2019, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethos4Lyfe View Post
Hey guys!

Currently using some Martin Logan Ethos speakers. Have Logan ESL C18 center and motion 40 as rears. Using Rythmik Audio G25HP for sub, and Marantz 8805 + Krell 5200 for power. I have been thinking of bumping up in their product line but also considering more traditional box speakers. Several dealers and forums have suggested getting away from Electrostat panels, since I'm 90-95% movies and gaming. They are better suited for music, so they're not entirely necessary. In other words, going w/ more traditional speaker design would work better for my usage. So, I could get a speaker not as expensive if need be.

I haven't looked at new front stage for quite some time, so looking for some advice. I'm totally open to used/floor model market, budget isn't a huge concern. After selling Ethos (if I do), could go as high as $5K+...but could also go w/ a cheaper speaker than what I have its better suited for me.
Can you borrow a pair of speakers to use as rears as an experiment?

If so, move your Motion 40s to front left and right and then see what YOU think.

If you think, "that doesn't sound bad" but want to upgrade the front three to a matching set, visit nearby Ascend Acoustics in LA and listen to their Sierra Series including their new EX series and bring them home with easy enough returns as you live nearby.

ASCEND ACOUSTICS, INC.
1062 Calle Negocio Suite G
San Clemente, CA 92673
Tel 949/366-1455
Fax 949/420-2418
Office Hours: 10:00am to 6:30pm PST

Interested in auditioning products at our facility?
Please give us a call or send an email to sales. We are by appointment only and would be happy to accommodate you but we do require at least 24 hours advance notice.
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post #23 of 41 Old 07-22-2019, 11:47 AM
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I'd go see Kevin at UpScale Audio in LaVern Ca... not to far from you in LA.
They carry all the brands and more that these guys here are referring to you to look at. They are on the floor and ready for you to Addition.

Be careful tho... Kevin is called the "Tube Man" for a reason.. lots of tube gear in his shop.

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post #24 of 41 Old 07-22-2019, 11:53 AM
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Revel, GoldenEar and Dynaudio come to mind.

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post #25 of 41 Old 07-22-2019, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Well, there's no harm just buying the L/R and seeing how your current ESL center works with them---a lot of folks (myself including) find the whole "timbre matching" dogma to be irrelevant in actual practice. A good center is a good center, just needs to deliver excellent voice clarity so that you can understand dialogue effortlessly, have your receiver level-match it and anything clear and neutral enough not to call attention to itself will easily do the job---don't fall for the flowery "audiophile" mumbo-jumbo.

With your incredibly generous budget you can easily afford to experiment with 2-3 sets of LCR speakers including return shipping for the ones that don't satisfy you...at the end of the day, who knows maybe you'll have a brand new appreciation of your current speakers after sending them all back! Only one way to find out...personally I wouldn't spend much more than $1K for the front 3 if doing bookshelves, and no more than $1500 if doing towers...the point of diminishing returns hits very quickly in this hobby, even if those who've been suckered into spending a lot more money would rather cut off their noses than admit it.
Its actually just for the main L and R...my center ain't going anywhere LOL. And I agree, looking at towers, so will consider some smaller less expensive options as well and save the $
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post #26 of 41 Old 07-22-2019, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Can you borrow a pair of speakers to use as rears as an experiment?

If so, move your Motion 40s to front left and right and then see what YOU think.

If you think, "that doesn't sound bad" but want to upgrade the front three to a matching set, visit nearby Ascend Acoustics in LA and listen to their Sierra Series including their new EX series and bring them home with easy enough returns as you live nearby.

ASCEND ACOUSTICS, INC.
1062 Calle Negocio Suite G
San Clemente, CA 92673
Tel 949/366-1455
Fax 949/420-2418
Office Hours: 10:00am to 6:30pm PST

Interested in auditioning products at our facility?
Please give us a call or send an email to sales. We are by appointment only and would be happy to accommodate you but we do require at least 24 hours advance notice.
I have some Logan bookshelves in bedroom, could def try the 40s up front and put the bookshelves as rears. Hve heard great things about Ascend
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post #27 of 41 Old 07-22-2019, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by WOKNROX View Post
I'd go see Kevin at UpScale Audio in LaVern Ca... not to far from you in LA.
They carry all the brands and more that these guys here are referring to you to look at. They are on the floor and ready for you to Addition.

Be careful tho... Kevin is called the "Tube Man" for a reason.. lots of tube gear in his shop.
I was just turned onto them by Greg out here...maybe I will swing by there this week.
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post #28 of 41 Old 07-22-2019, 05:14 PM
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I was just turned onto them by Greg out here...maybe I will swing by there this week.
Yeah go check them out. Great people with a huge selection of speakers...

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post #29 of 41 Old 07-22-2019, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
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Originally Posted by Ethos4Lyfe View Post
traditional speakers for movies/gaming.
So, it could be a downgrade if need be - the Ethos were like $7K when new. Thanks for any input
"movies/gaming" IMO do not merit much more than a modest investment, unless you have a humongous room where you're sitting 15-25ft away from the speakers AND you like to listen at extremely loud levels. You already have an excellent sub, so I'd say just experiment with some different speaker types: namely, domes, horns, and various forms of planar/ribbon tweeters coupled with traditional woofers.

Whatever you do, do NOT let yourself be suckered into the "you get what you pay for" salesman's bread-and-butter sales pitch. It's entirely possible that something like these $1K/pr JBL towers might make you plenty happy (and I think that JBL actually does provide free return shipping even on towers, call them to verify).
https://www.jbl.com/loudspeakers/STUDIO+590.html
i guess buying the Sierra 2 is pointless since you can just buy the CMT-340 !

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post #30 of 41 Old 07-22-2019, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by callas01 View Post
i guess buying the Sierra 2 is pointless since you can just buy the CMT-340 !
If music is not a major part of one's usage, yes I think the 340s would be more than good enough for most people, crossed over to a good sub or two.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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