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post #1 of 51 Old 07-23-2019, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
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New build advice

Hey guys,

we're building a new house at the moment, and I need some advice on the audio components for the living room, layout on the below link:
https://imgur.com/a/BVTGIAK

I will be using an Optoma UHD65 for mainly 4K movies (through nVidia Shield), and I need an entirely new audio system. I was thinking of the following:

Front: 2x Klipsch RP-6000F
Center: Klipsch RP-504C
Surround: 2x Klipsch RP-600M
Sub: SVS PB-4000
AVR: Denon X2600H

From what I've read, this looks like a good setup, but I'm not sure about the power compared to the size of the room. The dimensions on the plan are in meters.

Would appreciate any advice. Thanks !
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post #2 of 51 Old 07-23-2019, 09:53 AM
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Those would be good choices. One thing that I would change is to go with the Denon X3500H with the better Audyssey 32XT. Room correction will be better that way.
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post #3 of 51 Old 07-23-2019, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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That's actually very good advice, didn't even look into that. Thanks !
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post #4 of 51 Old 07-23-2019, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorisdriesen View Post
Sub: SVS PB-4000
That's a huge open space combined...I'd consider doing dual subs, maybe 2 x PB2000 instead.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #5 of 51 Old 07-23-2019, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Of all components I am indeed the least sure about the sub. I previously selected 2x Klipsch R-115SW (because they look awesome with the other Klipsch components) but after watching a lot of youtube reviews, I opted to go for an SVS, and then the powerful PB-4000 ($2600 in Belgium) which also looks pretty cool by the way.

I'm all open to go for other dual subs, do you think that would be an advantage because of the room size ? 2x PB-2000 is cheaper (2x $1000) so that's not an issue.
Does it make any difference if I aim the sub from the left front corner of the screen to the back right corner of the couch (because there's a small corner) ? Would that compensate for the big room size a bit ?

2x PB-3000 is again much more expensive (2x $1900). Maybe take 1x PB-3000 now and add one later if I feel it's needed ?
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post #6 of 51 Old 07-23-2019, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorisdriesen View Post
Of all components I am indeed the least sure about the sub. I previously selected 2x Klipsch R-115SW (because they look awesome with the other Klipsch components) but after watching a lot of youtube reviews, I opted to go for an SVS, and then the powerful PB-4000 ($2600 in Belgium) which also looks pretty cool by the way.

I'm all open to go for other dual subs, do you think that would be an advantage because of the room size ? 2x PB-2000 is cheaper (2x $1000) so that's not an issue.
Does it make any difference if I aim the sub from the left front corner of the screen to the back right corner of the couch (because there's a small corner) ? Would that compensate for the big room size a bit ?

2x PB-3000 is again much more expensive (2x $1900). Maybe take 1x PB-3000 now and add one later if I feel it's needed ?
Dual subs = much flatter response, ironing out room effects compared to a single sub.

No, "aiming" a sub doesn't make any difference because sub-bass is omnidirectional. What DOES make a big difference is optimal PLACEMENT...google up "sub crawl" to see how it's done, and expect to get a couple of extra long subwoofer cables (any coaxial cable with RCA plugs).

I would start with a pair of the PB2000 and add a 3rd if needed. If you were in the US I would say go for Hsu or PSA subs but I doubt those 2 brands are available in Europe.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #7 of 51 Old 07-23-2019, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorisdriesen View Post
Hey guys,

we're building a new house at the moment, and I need some advice on the audio components for the living room, layout on the below link:
https://imgur.com/a/BVTGIAK

I will be using an Optoma UHD65 for mainly 4K movies (through nVidia Shield), and I need an entirely new audio system. I was thinking of the following:

Front: 2x Klipsch RP-6000F
Center: Klipsch RP-504C
Surround: 2x Klipsch RP-600M
Sub: SVS PB-4000
AVR: Denon X2600H

From what I've read, this looks like a good setup, but I'm not sure about the power compared to the size of the room. The dimensions on the plan are in meters.

Would appreciate any advice. Thanks !
Your room looks to be 16 feet wide by 18 feet deep and you will be seated about 14 feet from the TV and a bit less from the speakers.

So "medium sized" where one Pb3000 (800 watt sub with 13" main driver) likely will be all you need to be honest.

The Klipsch will play far louder than you need, (which is good), with either receiver providing more than enough power to do so.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #8 of 51 Old 07-23-2019, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Your room looks to be 16 feet wide by 18 feet deep and you will be seated about 14 feet from the TV and a bit less from the speakers.

So "medium sized" where one Pb3000 (800 watt sub with 13" main driver) likely will be all you need to be honest.

The Klipsch will play far louder than you need, (which is good), with either receiver providing more than enough power to do so.
Unless I misread the blueprint, the listening area opens up to various other rooms in the house so the total cubic volume is quite a bit more.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #9 of 51 Old 07-23-2019, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Unless I misread the blueprint, the listening area opens up to various other rooms in the house so the total cubic volume is quite a bit more.
About the same size as my main HT room which opens at the right rear to a 400sq/ft kitchen which then opend on to another space of 400+ sq/ft.

One 15" sealed sub for me is plenty so a 13" ported might just do the trick for the OP and if not, just add another.

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post #10 of 51 Old 07-23-2019, 01:33 PM
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Since the living room is next to the family and dining room, and you are building new, I'd highly suggest offset-stud construction for more noise isolation. Also consider the ceiling construction and insulation above it.
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post #11 of 51 Old 07-23-2019, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorisdriesen View Post
Hey guys,

we're building a new house at the moment, and I need some advice on the audio components for the living room, layout on the below link:
https://imgur.com/a/BVTGIAK

I will be using an Optoma UHD65 for mainly 4K movies (through nVidia Shield), and I need an entirely new audio system. I was thinking of the following:

Front: 2x Klipsch RP-6000F
Center: Klipsch RP-504C
Surround: 2x Klipsch RP-600M
Sub: SVS PB-4000
AVR: Denon X2600H

From what I've read, this looks like a good setup, but I'm not sure about the power compared to the size of the room. The dimensions on the plan are in meters.

Would appreciate any advice. Thanks !
Looking at your space again it seems that you are somewhat limited on floor space so you might want to triple check cabinet sizes of the ported subs you are considering and instead consider two sealed subs. Maybe make a cardboard mockup or three.

My sub is a bit larger than an 18" cube and to be honest I should have gotten two smaller subs...and started with one.

SB3000: 15-1/4"W x 15-5/8"H x 17-13/16"D (with grille)

PB3000: 18-5/16"W x 21-15/16"H x 26"D (with grille)

SB4000: 17-13/16"W x 18-5/16"H x 20-15/16"D

PB4000: 20-1/2"W x 23-7/16"H x 30"D

Geoff A. J., California
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post #12 of 51 Old 07-24-2019, 12:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah I'm definitely considering the dual sub option now, thanks for all the feedback.

I will do some extra reading on which particular subs to go with. I assume Klipsch stays off the table ? If so, I will compare the different SVS subs and come back for advice when I think I made a choice.

Regarding wiring: I selected 2.5mm wires for all the speakers, looking at the specs they seem to be OK for the power that I'll be needing, correct ?
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post #13 of 51 Old 07-24-2019, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorisdriesen View Post

I will do some extra reading on which particular subs to go with. I assume Klipsch stays off the table ? If so, I will compare the different SVS subs and come back for advice when I think I made a choice.

Regarding wiring: I selected 2.5mm wires for all the speakers, looking at the specs they seem to be OK for the power that I'll be needing, correct ?
Klipsch's R115SW is the only one to consider, the others are not 20hz subs unlike SVS.

2.5mm wire is 13AWG so that is just fine as would 2.0mm wire which is 14AWG.

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post #14 of 51 Old 07-24-2019, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorisdriesen View Post
Yeah I'm definitely considering the dual sub option now, thanks for all the feedback.

I will do some extra reading on which particular subs to go with. I assume Klipsch stays off the table ? If so, I will compare the different SVS subs and come back for advice when I think I made a choice.

Regarding wiring: I selected 2.5mm wires for all the speakers, looking at the specs they seem to be OK for the power that I'll be needing, correct ?
Klipsch has had some issues with amp failure recently. SVS has a 5 year unconditional warranty and their customer service is second to none should you have an problems or just need general setup help. I agree with going the dual sub route is you can accommodate them.

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post #15 of 51 Old 07-24-2019, 11:02 AM
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Klipsch has had some issues with amp failure recently. SVS has a 5 year unconditional warranty and their customer service is second to none should you have an problems or just need general setup help. I agree with going the dual sub route is you can accommodate them.
Prestige Audio in another thread said that the sub issues are from 2+ years ago and have been resolved so, in his opinion, the new units should be trouble free.

That is based on his being a dealer for those subs and the lack of warranty issues with those he's sold in the last 2 years or so.
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post #16 of 51 Old 07-25-2019, 05:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Prestige Audio in another thread said that the sub issues are from 2+ years ago and have been resolved so, in his opinion, the new units should be trouble free.

That is based on his being a dealer for those subs and the lack of warranty issues with those he's sold in the last 2 years or so.
From the reviews I'm reading/watching, dual PB-2000's seems the way to go. I most probably won't be able to put one behind the couch, so they'll both have to go somewhere below the screen. This is probably not ideal but will be better than just one PB-3000 or PB-4000, right ?
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post #17 of 51 Old 07-25-2019, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by jorisdriesen View Post
From the reviews I'm reading/watching, dual PB-2000's seems the way to go. I most probably won't be able to put one behind the couch, so they'll both have to go somewhere below the screen. This is probably not ideal but will be better than just one PB-3000 or PB-4000, right ?
I have dual small subs in my secondary room and even though they aren't "ideally located" as they are under either end table of the couch, the two worked far far better than just one at eliminating localization from mandatory "poor" positioning due to room constraints.

From SVS:

https://www.svsound.com/blogs/svs/75040195-why-go-dual

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post #18 of 51 Old 07-25-2019, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Can you compare 2x Klipsch R-115SW with 2x SVS PB-2000 ? I still like the look of the Klipsch's a lot more, and they're also $250 cheaper (each) which isn't totally unimportant. I can't really find a direct comparison between the 2.
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post #19 of 51 Old 07-25-2019, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorisdriesen View Post
Can you compare 2x Klipsch R-115SW with 2x SVS PB-2000 ? I still like the look of the Klipsch's a lot more, and they're also $250 cheaper (each) which isn't totally unimportant. I can't really find a direct comparison between the 2.
Measurements albeit from two different sources.

PB-2000 CEA 2010 Results (2 meter RMS)
20Hz 103.8 dB
25Hz 107.6 dB
31.5Hz 109.6 dB
40Hz 110.1 dB
50Hz 110.5 dB
63Hz 111.5 dB


R115SW CEA 2010 Results (2 meter RMS)
20 Hz 99.7 dB
25 Hz 104.8 dB
31.5 Hz 109.6 dB
40Hz 112.4 dB
50 Hz 115.7 dB
63 Hz 114.3 dB

https://hometheaterreview.com/klipsc...viewed/?page=2

https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofe...svs-sb-pb-2000


Note: Two identical subs add +6db

+3db = 1.4 times sound pressure loudness
+6db = twice sound pressure loudness
+10db = 3.2 times sound pressure loudness

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-levelchange.htm

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post #20 of 51 Old 07-25-2019, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, but I'm still looking for a direct comparison.

From what I've read (and this also shows in your numbers) the SVS is more powerful at the lower frequencies, which is nicer for movies, and the Klipsch has more power at the higher frequencies, which should be better for music. For me it's going to be 95% movies, so that pushes me towards SVS.

But I like the looks of the Klipsch better (goes better with all the other Klipsch speakers in the living room), and they are cheaper.

Would you agree that SVS has the extra kick that makes them worth it for movies ? Before you ask, I have no possibility to listen to them at 1 shop. I have to drive 2 hours each to find a shop that sells them.
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post #21 of 51 Old 07-25-2019, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorisdriesen View Post
Thanks, but I'm still looking for a direct comparison.

From what I've read (and this also shows in your numbers) the SVS is more powerful at the lower frequencies, which is nicer for movies, and the Klipsch has more power at the higher frequencies, which should be better for music. For me it's going to be 95% movies, so that pushes me towards SVS.

But I like the looks of the Klipsch better (goes better with all the other Klipsch speakers in the living room), and they are cheaper.

Would you agree that SVS has the extra kick that makes them worth it for movies ? Before you ask, I have no possibility to listen to them at 1 shop. I have to drive 2 hours each to find a shop that sells them.
SVS= Five year unconditional warranty, good reliability, customer service is second to none, SVS bill of rights.
Klipsch= Looks nicer, is cheaper.

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post #22 of 51 Old 07-25-2019, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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That's a quite straight forward summary any own experience on the sound quality ?
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post #23 of 51 Old 07-25-2019, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorisdriesen View Post
Thanks, but I'm still looking for a direct comparison.

From what I've read (and this also shows in your numbers) the SVS is more powerful at the lower frequencies, which is nicer for movies, and the Klipsch has more power at the higher frequencies, which should be better for music. For me it's going to be 95% movies, so that pushes me towards SVS.

But I like the looks of the Klipsch better (goes better with all the other Klipsch speakers in the living room), and they are cheaper.

Would you agree that SVS has the extra kick that makes them worth it for movies ? Before you ask, I have no possibility to listen to them at 1 shop. I have to drive 2 hours each to find a shop that sells them.
As you can see from the numbers the SVS has flatter frequency response so, yes, more satisfying for movies.

If you wanted the sub that played loudest and at frequencies found in rock and roll/EDM etc. then clearly the Klipsch.

19-9/16"W x 21-9/16"H x 24-5/8"D KLIPSCH 15"

17-5/16"W x 20-15/16"H x 23-1/4"D SVS 12"

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post #24 of 51 Old 07-25-2019, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jorisdriesen View Post
From the reviews I'm reading/watching, dual PB-2000's seems the way to go. I most probably won't be able to put one behind the couch, so they'll both have to go somewhere below the screen. This is probably not ideal but will be better than just one PB-3000 or PB-4000, right ?
Yes, dual = a more even bass response and much less localizable.

As for the looks, you'll be watching movies with the lights off presumably right?

You can also use a tapestry or some kind of fabric cover to disguise the PB2000 during daylight hours...kind of like a burkha for subwoofers.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #25 of 51 Old 07-26-2019, 05:26 AM - Thread Starter
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It's not that I don't like how the SVS look, I'm just saying that ofcourse the Klipsch fits better with the 5 other Klipsch speakers that will be standing there. But OK, I see that it's unanimously positive to go for the SVS when my main use will be watching movies.

Talked to a dealer yesterday and got a $100 discount when I pick em up myself, which is nice. Also the soundpath isolation is much cheaper via Amazon, so all in all the cost is acceptable (but still the same cost as the 5 Klipsch speakers together).
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post #26 of 51 Old 07-26-2019, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jorisdriesen View Post
It's not that I don't like how the SVS look, I'm just saying that ofcourse the Klipsch fits better with the 5 other Klipsch speakers that will be standing there. But OK, I see that it's unanimously positive to go for the SVS when my main use will be watching movies.

Talked to a dealer yesterday and got a $100 discount when I pick em up myself, which is nice. Also the soundpath isolation is much cheaper via Amazon, so all in all the cost is acceptable (but still the same cost as the 5 Klipsch speakers together).
The Klipsch will hit 20hz so if you prefer the Klipsch and it saves you money, by all means get dual 115's. Long term reliability is what makes me nervous with Klipsch.

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post #27 of 51 Old 07-26-2019, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm joining some more local HT facebook groups, possibly some guys there will let me come listen to their equipment. Would make it maybe a bit easier to make a choice. But still, Every article and review I've seen prefers the SVS for movies, so most probably that's what it's going to be.
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post #28 of 51 Old 07-29-2019, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Was invited yesterday to go and see some guys HT, was really nice. He had a similar Klipsch setup, with 4 Atmos speakers against the ceiling, and the SVS PB-4000. Man that thing is huge !

So I'm hooked on Atmos now. Probably will need to replace the receiver with the X4500H, and add 4x Atmos in-ceiling speakers. Does it really matter which one you pick for the in-ceilings ? I assume they don't need a lot of power ? I see some not-so-expensive Klipsch in-ceilings here like CS-18C or CS-16C, would those suffice ? Anything in particular I need to look for when reviewing models ?
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post #29 of 51 Old 07-29-2019, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorisdriesen View Post
Was invited yesterday to go and see some guys HT, was really nice. He had a similar Klipsch setup, with 4 Atmos speakers against the ceiling, and the SVS PB-4000. Man that thing is huge !

So I'm hooked on Atmos now. Probably will need to replace the receiver with the X4500H, and add 4x Atmos in-ceiling speakers. Does it really matter which one you pick for the in-ceilings ? I assume they don't need a lot of power ? I see some not-so-expensive Klipsch in-ceilings here like CS-18C or CS-16C, would those suffice ? Anything in particular I need to look for when reviewing models ?
Many many AVS members have had excellent results with relatively modestly priced in ceiling Atmos speakers so if the Klipsch are not expensive no reason not to chose them.

Yes, pay very close attention to cabinet size when choosing a sub.

If you have room for two smaller quality subs vs one larger one definitely consider that route unless the two smaller ones don't hit near 20hz and the larger one does.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #30 of 51 Old 08-02-2019, 03:41 AM - Thread Starter
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As it looks now (plans have changed) I will be doing my HT in the attic. Much smaller space, width is about 12'6". Crosssection: https://imgur.com/a/ETlfBEj

I don't know how this impacts the sub selection, but would you still adivise 2x PB-2000 over 1x PB-4000 in this room ?
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