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post #1 of 24 Old 07-25-2019, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Sub connection question

I have a Yamaha RN303. There is no sub out but I do have a B set of speaker terminals. If I got a sub with speaker in terminals, would I be able to set it up that way or will it not work?


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post #2 of 24 Old 07-25-2019, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by activestatic View Post
I have a . There is no sub out but I do have a B set of speaker terminals. If I got a sub with speaker in terminals, would I be able to set it up that way or will it not work?


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You would need a sub with high level connections. In other words a sub with speaker connections. You can't add a sub directly to t Yamaha, but you can and should add a sub to your current setup.
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post #3 of 24 Old 07-25-2019, 11:00 AM
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Option A. You could buy a sub with high level inputs. Then connect speaker B terminal from your receiver to sub.

Option B. You could buy a sub with high level inputs and outputs. Then connect your speaker A terminals from receiver to the sub and then connect your stereo speakers to the high level outputs on the subwoofer. then you could use the crossover dial on the sub to control what frequencies get sent to the subwoofer and what goes to your left and right speakers.

With the first option your stereo speakers are being sent a full range signal and no way to change that. The second option you can set the crossover and control what frequencies are being sent where.

The only caveat is that many more subs have speaker level inputs only than both speaker level inputs and outputs so you may be limited with your options. The high end subs like SVS, HSU, RSL only have speaker level inputs, no outputs. and some subs don't have high level inputs/outputs at all, just line level.
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post #4 of 24 Old 07-25-2019, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you afrogt. I have a budget of <$500. Would any recommend a sub that accomplishes option B? My speakers are some Elac Debut 2.0 6.2’s.


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post #5 of 24 Old 07-25-2019, 11:20 AM
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I know the Bic PL 200 II has both sets of high level terminals. Not sure if there is a higher end subwoofer out there with that feature. Hopefully someone else will chime in.
https://www.amazon.com/Bic-Acoustech.../dp/B074131NKS

the good news is it is only half your budget
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post #6 of 24 Old 07-25-2019, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by activestatic View Post
Thank you afrogt. I have a budget of <$500. Would any recommend a sub that accomplishes option B? My speakers are some Elac Debut 2.0 6.2’s.


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You just need a sub with a left and right speaker input then connect them to speaker terminal B Left and right inputs.
As far as recommendations go, we'll need to know the following.
Room size?
Music or movies?
Listening habits? moderate, loud?
Expectations? Fill in bass or crack the foundation?

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post #7 of 24 Old 07-25-2019, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Room size? Height is 10ft. Length and with are not greater than 15ft. It’s for my bedroom.
Music or movies? Music
Listening habits? moderate, loud? Moderate to loud ;
Expectations? Fill in bass or crack the foundation? fill in the bass.


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post #8 of 24 Old 07-25-2019, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
Option A. You could buy a sub with high level inputs. Then connect speaker B terminal from your receiver to sub.

Option B. You could buy a sub with high level inputs and outputs. Then connect your speaker A terminals from receiver to the sub and then connect your stereo speakers to the high level outputs on the subwoofer. then you could use the crossover dial on the sub to control what frequencies get sent to the subwoofer and what goes to your left and right speakers.

With the first option your stereo speakers are being sent a full range signal and no way to change that. The second option you can set the crossover and control what frequencies are being sent where.

The only caveat is that many more subs have speaker level inputs only than both speaker level inputs and outputs so you may be limited with your options. The high end subs like SVS, HSU, RSL only have speaker level inputs, no outputs. and some subs don't have high level inputs/outputs at all, just line level.
Are there any subs that perform a crossover for your "option B", rather than a straight pass-through?

(Not a rhetorical question. The few susbs that I checked, months ago, just did a passthrough on their line level input/output pairs.)
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post #9 of 24 Old 07-25-2019, 12:56 PM
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^^I don't know the answer to your question

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post #10 of 24 Old 07-25-2019, 01:25 PM
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I know for a fact that the SVS SB-1000 Subwoofer has both speaker binding posts for input and output to accommodate connecting the sub and your speakers via speaker wire.

Oddly enough the SVS SB-3000 does not have speaker level inputs or outputs.

Do it all or don't do it at all.
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post #11 of 24 Old 07-25-2019, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobknavs View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
Option A. You could buy a sub with high level inputs. Then connect speaker B terminal from your receiver to sub.

Option B. You could buy a sub with high level inputs and outputs. Then connect your speaker A terminals from receiver to the sub and then connect your stereo speakers to the high level outputs on the subwoofer. then you could use the crossover dial on the sub to control what frequencies get sent to the subwoofer and what goes to your left and right speakers.

With the first option your stereo speakers are being sent a full range signal and no way to change that. The second option you can set the crossover and control what frequencies are being sent where.

The only caveat is that many more subs have speaker level inputs only than both speaker level inputs and outputs so you may be limited with your options. The high end subs like SVS, HSU, RSL only have speaker level inputs, no outputs. and some subs don't have high level inputs/outputs at all, just line level.
Are there any subs that perform a crossover for your "option B", rather than a straight pass-through?

(Not a rhetorical question. The few susbs that I checked, months ago, just did a passthrough on their line level input/output pairs.)
Yes, the SVS SB-1000 automatically applies a 80hz filter I believe.... check the Quick Start Sheet PDF on the sb1000 on the svs website for more info on it...

Do it all or don't do it at all.
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post #12 of 24 Old 07-25-2019, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by activestatic View Post
I have a Yamaha RN303. There is no sub out but I do have a B set of speaker terminals. If I got a sub with speaker in terminals, would I be able to set it up that way or will it not work?
Assuming your receiver's "B" outputs are like most and represent paralleled outputs off the same amps that power the "A" speakers, this should work fine. Your sub presents no impedance to the receiver's amps.

But even if you didn't have the "B" outputs you could still connect a sub in this fashion by wiring it in parallel either at the receiver's speaker outputs or at the speakers' inputs. Or, if your sub featured speaker-level outputs (high-passed or not; see below) you could utilize them in the wiring scheme if desired.

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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
Option B. You could buy a sub with high level inputs and outputs. Then connect your speaker A terminals from receiver to the sub and then connect your stereo speakers to the high level outputs on the subwoofer. then you could use the crossover dial on the sub to control what frequencies get sent to the subwoofer and what goes to your left and right speakers.
A sub's "crossover dial" setting doesn't affect what is sent to its high-level speaker outputs. A sub's "crossover dial" only controls the sub's variable low-pass filter setting.


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Are there any subs that perform a crossover for your "option B", rather than a straight pass-through?

(Not a rhetorical question. The few susbs that I checked, months ago, just did a passthrough on their line level input/output pairs.)
A (scant?) few subs have high-passed speaker-level outputs that are (crudely?) high-passed at a fixed value (usually somewhere ~80Hz-120Hz) and this allows a crossed-over setup, albeit with a fixed high-pass and variable low-pass. But, you're right, most subs that even feature high-level ins/outs nowadays are simply only pass-throughs.





Of course, even with speakers that are running full-range, you do use the speakers' natural low-end roll-off as the high-pass component, along with the sub's variable low-pass setting, to configure a "quasi" crossed-over setup when connecting a sub in this fashion, anyway.

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post #13 of 24 Old 07-25-2019, 02:16 PM
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I know for a fact that the SVS SB-1000 Subwoofer has both speaker binding posts for input and output to accommodate connecting the sub and your speakers via speaker wire.
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Originally Posted by yodog View Post
Yes, the SVS SB-1000 automatically applies a 80hz filter I believe.... check the Quick Start Sheet PDF on the sb1000 on the svs website for more info on it...

The SB-1000 doesn't have speaker-level outputs; only inputs. Its line-level outputs ARE actually high-passed at 80Hz (12dB/octave), though.

SB-1000 manual

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Ah I see now my bad yeah it just has inputs. Since it just has inputs, how do you integrate it with your speakers and amp if using speaker wire?

Do it all or don't do it at all.
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post #15 of 24 Old 07-25-2019, 07:36 PM
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Ah I see now my bad yeah it just has inputs. Since it just has inputs, how do you integrate it with your speakers and amp if using speaker wire?
I don't own one, but I believe that you just wire it in parallel to the speakers.

There should be no need to use heavy-gauge speaker wire. The sub is just taking a high-level signal, but essentially zero power.
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post #16 of 24 Old 07-29-2019, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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If I had a sub with high level ins and outs, would the sub’s amp now push my stereo speakers if I used that connection setup? And does the wattage on the sub now affect my stereo speakers as far as loudness and peak power? Does the sub’s amp lose power dedicated to it when pushing the additional pair of speakers? Or am I better off leaving the stereo pair in Set A and the sub on set B?


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post #17 of 24 Old 07-29-2019, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by activestatic View Post
If I had a sub with high level ins and outs, would the sub’s amp now push my stereo speakers if I used that connection setup? And does the wattage on the sub now affect my stereo speakers as far as loudness and peak power? Does the sub’s amp lose power dedicated to it when pushing the additional pair of speakers? Or am I better off leaving the stereo pair in Set A and the sub on set B?


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This is the only sub that I am aware of that has speaker level inputs which you connect to your receiver and speaker level outputs that you connect to your speakers that applies a fixed 70hz filter so that the sub plays 70hz and below and your speakers play 70hz and above.

Reviews seem enthusiastic though clearly it is no monster.

It could work quite well.

https://www.amazon.com/Earthquake-So.../dp/B005W8NEXA

From the manual:

"Note: The high level input for satellite speakers is fitted with a high
pass filter (70Hz). It is only powered when the main or front speaker
signals are driven into the HIGH LEVEL INPUT

HIGH LEVEL OUTPUT - High pass filtered output
terminals designed to power up stereo satellite
speakers."



https://www.earthquakesound.com/inde...tem/cp8-manual

Geoff A. J., California
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post #18 of 24 Old 07-29-2019, 01:18 PM
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If I had a sub with high level ins and outs, would the sub’s amp now push my stereo speakers if I used that connection setup?
No, the speakers are still powered by your power amp, integrated amp, or AV receiver.


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And does the wattage on the sub now affect my stereo speakers as far as loudness and peak power? Does the sub’s amp lose power dedicated to it when pushing the additional pair of speakers?
Per the above answer, no and no.


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Or am I better off leaving the stereo pair in Set A and the sub on set B?
Unless you have a sub that actually high-passes it's speaker-level outputs and that is, indeed, your intention, there is really no good reason to use a sub's speaker-level outputs unless it somehow makes your wiring tidier.

Wiring your speakers to the A outputs and your sub to the B outputs is a reasonable approach and allows you to easily operate the speakers without the sub by simply turning off the B outputs.
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post #19 of 24 Old 07-29-2019, 01:38 PM
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This is the only sub that I am aware of that has speaker level inputs which you connect to your receiver and speaker level outputs that you connect to your speakers that applies a fixed 70hz filter so that the sub plays 70hz and below and your speakers play 70hz and above.
Well, it applies a fixed high-pass filter to the speaker-level outputs. The low-pass on the sub is still variably controlled by the sub's (mis-named) crossover setting.

There ARE (albeit few) other subs which feature high-passed speaker-level outputs. However, the high-pass filter utilized by most subs which do feature high-passed speaker-level outputs is usually considered to be quite crude.

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Thank you! Would I need to use heavy gauge wiring to feed the sub (10AWG) or would I be fine with using 16AWG since I’d only be about ~6 feet away from the stereo?


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post #21 of 24 Old 07-29-2019, 01:50 PM
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Thank you! Would I need to use heavy gauge wiring to feed the sub (10AWG) or would I be fine with using 16AWG since I’d only be about ~6 feet away from the stereo?

16AWG should be fine

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post #22 of 24 Old 07-29-2019, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
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Thank you! Would I need to use heavy gauge wiring to feed the sub (10AWG) or would I be fine with using 16AWG since I’d only be about ~6 feet away from the stereo?


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16 AWG would be fine.

I was all set to order that sub for my friends who are using my 1970s era Sansui 881 receiver I had refurbished as a gift as they lost all their stereo equipment in the 2017 Santa Rosa fires but they decided to run the LX16s full range to limit clutter instead.

If you order that sub do come back and let us know if it works as well as the reviews say.

Amazon price is much better than direct from Earthquake and if you don't like it, returns should be less problematic.

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post #23 of 24 Old 07-29-2019, 03:17 PM
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^^^don't think you can return that sub

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The item is non-returnable
Slim down firing ported design - only 7 inch tall
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RCA and High Level Inputs with a crossed High Level Output
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post #24 of 24 Old 07-30-2019, 10:53 AM
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^^^don't think you can return that sub
Good for the OP to know.

These DefTec subs have a fixed 80hz high pass filter on their speaker level outputs.

https://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Te...gateway&sr=8-3

https://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Te...gateway&sr=8-3

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