Polk S15s sound better than S50s - Page 12 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #331 of 467 Old 09-12-2019, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
He could be right, though. Some speakers uncover a lot of things in an audio recording that warmer speakers wouldn't reveal.
And some sources just suck.

As the OP mentioned FM radio, some strong stations sound great while others do not.

Sibilance is in the 5khz 8khz range and sometimes above.

Looking at the measurements for the S60 and S20 at Sound & Vision shows no bump in the 5-8khz area but a gentle rise thereafter.

IIRC correctly the OP's left speaker is near a wall so could be wall reflection. The OP could do a simple temporary test and put up a blanket or pillows or whatnot at that first reflection point to see if that kills the sibilance.

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post #332 of 467 Old 09-12-2019, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
My source is Google Play (paid account at highest streaming rate). I connect phone to AVR using Chromecast on AVR. I'll try connecting phone to TV by Chromecast and then use HDMI ARC from TV to AVR.

Your measurements show a very strong rise after 10 kHz, which is likely what I'm hearing?

FM Top 40 (strong signal) sounds great.

My L speaker points away from sidewall toed in directly to me.
Not nearly as pronounced a rise as Golden Ears, as just one example.

Some people like a bit of a bump there and I don't mind it to be honest.
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post #333 of 467 Old 09-12-2019, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
The AVR has no freq EQ (sorry Ryan) and I was willing to try anything tonight so I connected my phone by Bluetooth instead of Chromecast. What the heck?!??!?! Bluetooth is clearer???! I specifically bought this AVR over cheaper ones because it has Chromecast built-in and I avoided BT like the plague because of all the articles I read saying Wi-Fi is superior.
I think I've gone crazy. Chromecast is also much improved over yesterday! Did my ears break in or did the 6" space between the s15 and wall make such a difference?

OK not really. Freebird still has a lot of sibilance but Texas Flood does not. I wonder if Google Play has recordings of different quality on their cloud.

I don't trust my ears anymore. Freebird sounds better on Chromecast than BT...I'm out.

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post #334 of 467 Old 09-12-2019, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
I think I've gone crazy. Chromecast is also much improved over yesterday! Did my ears break in or did the 6" space between the s15 and wall make such a difference?

OK not really. Freebird still has a lot of sibilance but Texas Flood does not. I wonder if Google Play has recordings of different quality on their cloud.

I don't trust my ears anymore. Freebird sounds better on Chromecast than BT...I'm out.
I think you might be getting too hung up on this sibilance thing.
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post #335 of 467 Old 09-12-2019, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
Onkyo owner here too
I have no complaints, but I would probably appreciate "better" room calibration software for next gen.
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post #336 of 467 Old 09-12-2019, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
I think I've gone crazy. Chromecast is also much improved over yesterday! Did my ears break in or did the 6" space between the s15 and wall make such a difference?



OK not really. Freebird still has a lot of sibilance but Texas Flood does not. I wonder if Google Play has recordings of different quality on their cloud.



I don't trust my ears anymore. Freebird sounds better on Chromecast than BT...I'm out.

Well just keep playing around, eventually all the puzzle pieces will fit and you’ll be happy.

I think we’ve laid out every possible tip so it’s up to you what to do now.
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #337 of 467 Old 09-13-2019, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
Yep, this has been a helpful exercise. Would anyone have a suggestion for a streaming solution not using my phone to connect by Chromecast to the AVR? I mean is there some box that connects wired to the AVR but still streams (not CDs)?
Do you use PC or Mac? Maybe streaming from your phone isn't the best - have you tried streaming from your computer?
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post #338 of 467 Old 09-14-2019, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
Thanks man, it's the same from laptop. Many reviews said it's not a warm speaker; I guess they're right. The AVR and speakers are great for HT.

Imaging is great now I got toe in and speaker separation correct.
If music is your main focus, then something just a little warmer probably would have been more suited to your needs.
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post #339 of 467 Old 09-15-2019, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post

I also saw the importance of a well integrated sub for HT. I listened to part of a drama (Woman in Gold) that should typically have no LFE in my opinion. Hence I've not had a sub in 20 years because we only watch dramas. There was a lot of low freq ambient noise that really added emotionally to scenes like at the holocaust memorial and in general when folks aren't talking.

I returned gajCA's sub soon after buying and didn't get a chance to integrate/place or dial in properly to test but will def get a brown hts10 on sale now.
Good plan.
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post #340 of 467 Old 09-15-2019, 02:53 PM
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I returned gajCA's sub soon after buying and didn't get a chance to integrate/place or dial in properly to test but will def get a brown hts10 on sale now.
Why would you return it without properly testing it out?

Subs aren't only for high-action movies/TV shows or music that typically use a lot of bass (Hip Hop, for example). All content will have frequencies lower than what regular speakers can produce, and the sub is just there to fill that lower end - especially if music is your main focus, IMO. I would think that a sub that can produce a clear, flat enough response at the same frequency as the lowest note on a piano is GE.

It sounds like throughout all of this that you've had your heart set on the HTS10 - I think you will be perfectly happy with that subwoofer.
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post #341 of 467 Old 09-15-2019, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
I just wanted to try out a sub to see what it adds since I never had one. The Yamaha is great but as you said I'd really like the matching hts10 in brown.

Google Play actually has an EQ on the app. What would you suggests for the following settings to make it a warm sound with vocals emphasized? I can select between options A or B below.

A. Set knob on a sliding scale from Bass at one end to Treble at other end. (I'm thinking of setting this to 60/40 in favor of Bass). Set knob on a sliding scale from Instrument at one end to Vocals at other end. (I'm thinking of setting this to 100/0 in favor of Vocal). Select between Tube Amp or Concert Reverb. (I'm thinking of selecting Tube Amp).

B. Set EQ between -10dB to +10dB for each of 60, 150, 400, 1k, 3k, 8k, 16k Hz.
I think the only real answer is set it to whatever sounds the best to your ears. I don't personally use streaming apps for music, so I wouldn't have any real insight on any of that.
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post #342 of 467 Old 09-19-2019, 09:33 AM
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Ryan, I'm trying to understand how to set up a sub correctly. Could you please explain why, in the other thread, you mentioned setting crossover to 80 but LFE to 120?
Crossover points are for the speakers, LFE is for the subwoofer.

For bass management, and to ease some of the workload off of the speakers, you would generally set the speaker to roll off at around 80Hz and below to let the subwoofer handle the grunt work. It can be higher or lower depending on the speakers (i.e. surrounds tend to be set around 100Hz, and centre channel varies from person to person, but still usually in the 80-100Hz range). You generally set the LFE in the AVR to 120Hz (it doesn't have to be 120Hz, but that's the common setting, and what any room calibration software sets by default) so that the subwoofer - even though its job is to play bass - still plays frequencies higher than 80Hz, but rolls off at around 120Hz (or wherever you set it) in order to blend a little with the speakers to eliminate subwoofer localization (meaning preventing your ears from being able to locate where the bass from the subwoofer is coming from so that it sounds like it's coming from all around you instead of feeling like it's hitting you from one side).

Generally, people set the LFE to 120Hz in the AVR, and turn the frequency knob on the subwoofer to its max in order to let the AVR determine what frequencies are being sent to the subwoofer. Turning the knob to max removes any chance of there being any conflict between the AVR and the subwoofer.

Neither of those numbers are set in stone, and can be adjusted to taste. Those numbers can be determined by the speakers you have or the room they're in, but most of the time 80Hz - 100Hz for speakers (front L/R, and often the centre, and surrounds), and 120Hz LFE for the subwoofer is fine. For crossover points, you never want to set it lower than the speaker's lowest Frequency Response spec (i.e. if the speaker goes from 30Hz to 48kHz, you don't set the crossover lower than 30Hz).

This was all a bit rambling, and maybe not 100% accurate, but that's the general jist of it.
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post #343 of 467 Old 09-19-2019, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
Will do, very helpful. The AVR also has a setting "sub low pass" that can be set to ON or OFF. I wonder what that is?
I have no experience with Sony AVRs, but I suspect you set that to ON, and 120Hz if that option is also there.

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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
I'm beginning to think bass originating in the front of my room causes nulls or standing waves that cancel out the bass. this may be why the s50 had no audible bass and the s15 seem to play nothing below 120 Hz. In 2.0 mode (no sub)
I don't think that's how that works. If you had your speakers set to full band/large, the speakers would be playing all of the frequencies. If you had them set to small with a crossover of the speakers at 80Hz with no sub, then my guess is the AVR would start to roll off the frequencies at 80Hz and below. 120Hz is higher than that crossover point, so the speakers would have still played those frequencies. If you had no sub, then the LFE thing wouldn't even have any effect.
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post #344 of 467 Old 09-19-2019, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
I was unclear. I meant speakers in the front of my room appear to produce no frequencies below 120 Hz even when set to full range. The bass is canceling out due to nulls (destructive interference).

Maybe the room and my seating position is also causing constructive interference in the 5-8 kHz range, thus causing the exaggerated hiss when cymbals are played.
I still don't think that that's how it would work, especially if you have them set to large/full band. You would have to actually take sound measurements to determine where any frequency nulls take place - there's no way you would be able to effectively pinpoint that by ear. And even then, your room wouldn't cancel out everything lower than 120Hz.

And are you sure that the hiss is caused by the speaker, and not the source material? Plus, cymbals have a natural hiss to them anyway...
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post #345 of 467 Old 09-19-2019, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
Yeah, tonight I'm going to try extreme toe in like Ray Guy mentioned above, i.e., lines from the front of the speakers cross 2 ft in front of me. You're right in that songs without cymbals sound much less noisy.

And my $599 Sony AVR is definitely junk. Today I found even the cheapo non-name factory radio in my 4 yr old Corolla has a EQ that can adjust mids.
I'm not sure what, if anything, toeing in that extreme would do for your situation. The thing is you're doing all of this without a subwoofer, so you really should have everything integrated before you start moving things around.

Your AVR isn't junk.
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post #346 of 467 Old 09-20-2019, 10:11 AM
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You're right in several ways I guess. First, from reading other AVS threads, the Polk RTiAs and Sigs are regarded as bright, with the RTiA regarded as brighter. That's why I shied away from the RTiAs. However, it also appears this largely depends on the listener's own ear. I have high freq hearing loss and it could be that for the first time I'm hearing cymbals or other certain high freq sounds that irritate me. Hence, audition should take precedence over reviews. I did audition the s15 but purchased s10/s30 that could not be returned so could not really return the s15 either (for matching purposes). Next time, I'll do a proper audition.

Second, there really is a difference between warm and bright (at least to a particular ear). Other AVS threads mention Wharfedale and KEF as warm. Next time, I'll look for this feature when auditioning.

Third, my budget is higher than I've let on. However, I was taken in by many articles that said certain speakers provide 90% of performance for 10% or so of cost. Not true. Or at least, that 90% may not be pleasurable as is my experience with the Polk s15. So, its best to audition without letting the cost, articles touting the 90%, or reviews color one's opinion. (Pase22 kept hinting at this and I didn't take him seriously).

My plan is to let a year or two pass and then upgrade just the front L/R to warmer speakers. I see no hard rule in timbre matching the front 3 since the s30 performs great in HT and the s15 don't contribute anything much or at least don't spoil HT. At that point, I'll look for a AVR with pre outs to add an amp for music. 2ch Music is my primary objective - I'm quite happy listening to HT on TV speakers. Having said that, I may actually go a complete audiophile 2 ch route and have nothing to do with AVRs or center channels. I do have an 12' X 14' office in my house that's sitting empty and could be converted into a music-only listening room separate from our HT family room. I could begin from scratch in that and get proper music electronics and speakers. The room is rectangular and doesn't have the open floor plan issues of our HT room.
Since your main priority is 2 channel music, upgrading the L/R first (and adding a good sub) will be a main priority. Look at your current setup as a good learning experience. In a year or two, you'll have more experience and will have a better understanding of what you're looking for and are likely to avoid making the same mistakes. We all have to start somewhere.
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post #347 of 467 Old 09-20-2019, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
You're right in several ways I guess. First, from reading other AVS threads, the Polk RTiAs and Sigs are regarded as bright, with the RTiA regarded as brighter. That's why I shied away from the RTiAs. However, it also appears this largely depends on the listener's own ear. I have high freq hearing loss and it could be that for the first time I'm hearing cymbals or other certain high freq sounds that irritate me. Hence, audition should take precedence over reviews. I did audition the s15 but purchased s10/s30 that could not be returned so could not really return the s15 either (for matching purposes). Next time, I'll do a proper audition.

Second, there really is a difference between warm and bright (at least to a particular ear). Other AVS threads mention Wharfedale and KEF as warm. Next time, I'll look for this feature when auditioning.

Third, my budget is higher than I've let on. However, I was taken in by many articles that said certain speakers provide 90% of performance for 10% or so of cost. Not true. Or at least, that 90% may not be pleasurable as is my experience with the Polk s15. So, its best to audition without letting the cost, articles touting the 90%, or reviews color one's opinion. (Pase22 kept hinting at this and I didn't take him seriously).

My plan is to let a year or two pass and then upgrade just the front L/R to warmer speakers. I see no hard rule in timbre matching the front 3 since the s30 performs great in HT and the s15 don't contribute anything much or at least don't spoil HT. At that point, I'll look for a AVR with pre outs to add an amp for music. 2ch Music is my primary objective - I'm quite happy listening to HT on TV speakers. Having said that, I may actually go a complete audiophile 2 ch route and have nothing to do with AVRs or center channels. I do have an 12' X 14' office in my house that's sitting empty and could be converted into a music-only listening room separate from our HT family room. I could begin from scratch in that and get proper music electronics and speakers. The room is rectangular and doesn't have the open floor plan issues of our HT room.
Perhaps it's just what my ears prefer, and I also haven't really done an A/B comparison between a bright/warm speaker or ever really know what "bright" sounds like, but I'm not finding the RTiA's I have to be bright (at least not anymore)? I certainly noticed a difference going from the Pioneer BS22/C22 speakers I had, but I think my ears are just used to how the RTiAs sound, now. I could do a comparison when I get the KEF Q150s I bought for my own 2ch music area, I guess. I have been able to listen to the RTiA speakers hours on end without getting "fatigued" (I'm also not entirely sure what that physically entails, either). However, I do have the RTiAs as my HT speakers, and AFAIK having a brighter-sounding speaker is more suited for HT, and having a warmer-sounding speaker is more suited for music.

Regardless of budget, there's no rule saying that you have to get the most expensive speakers even if you have a budget to be able to purchase them. You can still build a respectable set up with entry-level speakers, I think. The only drawback with entry-level speakers is you're often left choosing between finishes that may not be the most appealing.

I don't think it's a terrible idea to set up a separate 2ch music area of your own. When you're ready to do that, there are a lot of people here who can point you in the right direction a far as speaker selection. I've seen Wharfedale Diamond 10.2s, and Elac Debut 2.0 (5.2 or 6.2) mentioned a bunch. KEF Q150 or LS50 have been mentioned a bunch as well, even the Polk LSiM 703s have had a lot of nods as being good speakers for music. If/when you do decide to do that, don't worry so much about break-in - that's largely just your ears getting used to the sound of the speakers to begin with (I think that's why people recommend auditioning speakers - it gives your ears enough time to adjust).

Sit back, and enjoy the S series speakers you have for HT (or sell them), I think they will perform quite well for you for that purpose. I wouldn't try to continue to shoe-horn them into music speakers if they're too bright for your liking with that content.
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post #348 of 467 Old 09-23-2019, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Perhaps it's just what my ears prefer, and I also haven't really done an A/B comparison between a bright/warm speaker or ever really know what "bright" sounds like, but I'm not finding the RTiA's I have to be bright (at least not anymore)?
I'm thinking the unclear midrange and treble could be due to reflections/smearing. The same source sounds much better on headphones and other speakers. As of now, speakers are 7' apart and 1' from side walls. I could move the stereo speakers closer to each other (and thus further from side walls). Does proximity of rear bass port to wall cause smearing or loss of clarity in midrange/highs or only on bass? The bass is not muddy at all so I have the back port only 3-6" from front wall.

Wish I could get rid of hard/shiny coffee table and put acoustic treatment on walls but not an option.

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post #349 of 467 Old 09-23-2019, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
I'm thinking the unclear midrange and treble could be due to reflections/smearing. The same source sounds much better on headphones and other speakers. I could move the stereo speakers closer to each other (and thus further from side walls). Does proximity of rear bass port to wall cause smearing or loss of clarity in midrange/highs or only on bass? The bass is not muddy at all so I have the back port only 3-6" from front wall.

Wish I could get rid of hard/shiny coffee table and put acoustic treatment on walls but not an option.
I think before you do anything, integrate a sub into the mix. If you are running them as large or full band, it could be due to that. Adding a sub might clear things up a bit as you can set a speaker crossover of 80Hz and the subwoofer LFE at 120Hz, which will allow the speakers themselves to play mid-bass, mids, and highs cleaner, clearer, and louder.
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post #350 of 467 Old 09-23-2019, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
I'm thinking the unclear midrange and treble could be due to reflections/smearing. The same source sounds much better on headphones and other speakers. As of now, speakers are 7' apart and 1' from side walls. I could move the stereo speakers closer to each other (and thus further from side walls). Does proximity of rear bass port to wall cause smearing or loss of clarity in midrange/highs or only on bass? The bass is not muddy at all so I have the back port only 3-6" from front wall.

Wish I could get rid of hard/shiny coffee table and put acoustic treatment on walls but not an option.
Your photo showed the left speaker close to the wall/hard slats covering your window so pulling it further from the wall and toeing in a bit might help.

Temporarily cover the glass coffee table with a blanket to see if that makes a difference.
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post #351 of 467 Old 09-23-2019, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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I think before you do anything, integrate a sub into the mix. If you are running them as large or full band, it could be due to that. Adding a sub might clear things up a bit as you can set a speaker crossover of 80Hz and the subwoofer LFE at 120Hz, which will allow the speakers themselves to play mid-bass, mids, and highs cleaner, clearer, and louder.
I plan to. But the midrange is loud. The vocals are recessed but instruments are loud. Hence, I intend to bring the speakers closer together to reinforce the center image. I understand the sub will improve bass but how will it clear up noisy midrange. I mean it sounds like a few extra cymbals clashing. It's very loud.

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post #352 of 467 Old 09-23-2019, 11:53 PM
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I plan to. But the midrange is loud. The vocals are recessed but instruments are loud. Hence, I intend to bring the speakers closer together to reinforce the center image. I understand the sub will improve bass but how will it clear up noisy midrange. I mean it sounds like a few extra cymbals clashing. It's very loud.
Do you mean noisy or unclear? Before you said the mid range was not clear, now you're saying it's loud. It might clear it up by easing some of the pressure off of the speakers by allowing the subwoofer to handle some of it. I still wouldn't fuss with anything until you have your subwoofer set up (if you're still buying the HTS10?). Without knowing what music you're listening to, it's difficult to be able to determine what you mean by extra cymbals crashing - plus, afaik, cymbals are more in the high frequency range, not necessarily the mid range. If the same content sounded better in headphones or different speakers, maybe it's because the highs were a bit more laid back on those speakers/headphones. It could also be those settings that you decided on for the streaming app? What about listening modes? Does the Sony AVR you have switch depending on the content being played? What about the room calibration? Did you change any of the settings afterwards?
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post #353 of 467 Old 09-24-2019, 01:37 PM
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Thanks, I mean unclear due to added noise (possibly from reflections). While vocals are recessed, the midrange is loud enough but unclear. It sounds like there are a few extra instruments in the background adding white or pink noise, you get what I mean? Yes, there's midrange noise as well as high freq noise.

The same content sounded better in very cheap $9 earphones and in my cheapo factory radio. I used the same settings for the streaming app in all cases. I've tried all the different mode and EQ settings on the AVR and calibration. The room and distance of speakers from walls is making the sound unclear I'm pretty sure.

The music that sounds the worst are like these songs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0W1v0kOELA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEJ842YIoC8

This doesn't happen with the s30 center that is closest to us, 1.5' from front wall, and 5' from side walls. The walls, ceiling are white, shiny.
It's still difficult to discern what it is you're describing without really being there, and listening for ourselves. I sincerely doubt that those songs sound better on your $9 headphone/factory radio. That just tells me that either the speakers are revealing things about the recordings themselves that weren't apparent on the cheaper equipment or your ears are overly-sensitive to the brightness of the speakers or you just have the wrong settings in the streaming app. I listened to the Red Rooster song on my system (just through YouTube), and I couldn't really hear anything what you were describing. Apart from the lead guitar solos sounding a bit forward compared to everything else, I just honestly took that as a characteristic of the recording. I certainly didn't hear any pink/white noise - and my RTiAs are said to be brighter than the Signatures. It could also be that you're used to hearing these songs on your $9 headphones/factory radio that when you hear the same thing on vastly better equipment that it's throwing you off?

What I would maybe try is, if you can, disable whatever EQ you have in the streaming app (whether that's turning it off if you can or just setting everything to 50/50), and just allowing the AVR's EQ settings to do the work. Sometimes when you apply filters on top of other filters it causes problems.

Also, are your speakers set to large/full band or small? What are the settings determined by the AVR's room calibration? did you alter them afterwards?
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post #354 of 467 Old 09-25-2019, 09:32 AM
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Thanks. (1) Could be. (2) Done and made no difference. (3) Both large as well as cut off at 80 Hz with no sub. Cut off is slightly clearer but the noise I hear is mid and higher freqs anyway. (4) AVR calibration does nothing but set center to -6 dB, nothing else. (5) I bump up center to 0 dB and nothing else.

Pulled the center and s15 away from wall and immediately became much thinner sound and tinny. Maybe my open floorplan is adding more space than I realize. Although the room is 12 X 13, the entire right wall and portions of front wall and rear wall is open to 2750 sq ft house.

Also due to WAF, my listening is at 60 dB. Maybe all the rich sound is just escaping before hitting my ears at 11 ft from speakers? I returned the Google Home Max and Sonos Play5 becuase though it was ok, I felt I could do better with an AVR and larger speakers. But the sound from the s15 is less rich than those 2 powered speakers.

Decided against Polk hts10 due to many issues with auto on and some saying boomy. Deciding between non-ported SVS 1000, RSL speedwoofer, and rhythmik subs. Thanks again.
You wouldn't need to set a crossover for the S15s if you have them set to full band/large, AFAIK. I'm not wholly familiar with the settings you would generally use for the centre or any surrounds you may have when not using a sub, so it could be you might be better to set everything to large (but please get confirmation from another, more experienced person here)? I only say that because without a sub, there's really no bass management going on.

I listened to the one example you cited, and I didn't hear any of the noise you described. Is it constant or only sometimes during the song? If you're doing am A/B comparison between the S15s and a $9 pair of headphones/factory radio, it could even be that you're hearing more of the cymbals that you were on that other equipment (if you're describing what sounds like pink/white noise to you).

I'm assuming you're setting your mic for the room calibration at the main listening position? What does it sound like if you leave the settings alone once the calibration is complete? What dB setting is it assigning the other speakers?

I probably wouldn't say that the sound became "tinny" of "thin" when you pulled the speakers away from the wall - there was obviously some resonance from the walls that boosted the bass frequencies a bit, and pulling the speakers away is probably giving you a truer sense of what the speakers sound like. Adding a subwoofer will eliminate any issues you might have with any apparent lack of bass.

To my knowledge, the size of the room only really applies to subwoofers, but the space being an open floor plan might have somewhat of an effect especially if happens to be an echo-y space. If you're sitting 11 feet away, and listening at 60dB (if that's what an SPL meter measures from where you're sitting), that can also factor into the equation. I listen at around the same dB level, but I am also only about 6 feet away from my speakers (which means my master volume level would be technically lower than yours since you'd have to turn it up louder to reach 60dB from 11 feet away).

There are issues with Auto On no matter what sub you choose, and how "boomy" a sub gets all depends on its placement - a sealed sub will still sound "boomy" if it's placed in an area that reinforces those bass frequencies. It's going to be boomier if you stick it in a corner compared to an area where there's more open space around sub. Honestly, if you have the budget, the Rythmik sub is probably your no-brainer choice.
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post #355 of 467 Old 09-25-2019, 09:49 AM
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I plan to. But the midrange is loud. The vocals are recessed but instruments are loud. Hence, I intend to bring the speakers closer together to reinforce the center image. I understand the sub will improve bass but how will it clear up noisy midrange. I mean it sounds like a few extra cymbals clashing. It's very loud.
Did you pull the center channel forward to the very edge of the table?

That makes a big difference in clarity.
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post #356 of 467 Old 09-25-2019, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
Thanks. (1) Could be. (2) Done and made no difference. (3) Both large as well as cut off at 80 Hz with no sub. Cut off is slightly clearer but the noise I hear is mid and higher freqs anyway. (4) AVR calibration does nothing but set center to -6 dB, nothing else. (5) I bump up center to 0 dB and nothing else.

Pulled the center and s15 away from wall and immediately became much thinner sound and tinny. Maybe my open floorplan is adding more space than I realize. Although the room is 12 X 13, the entire right wall and portions of front wall and rear wall is open to 2750 sq ft house.

Also due to WAF, my listening is at 60 dB. Maybe all the rich sound is just escaping before hitting my ears at 11 ft from speakers? I returned the Google Home Max and Sonos Play5 becuase though it was ok, I felt I could do better with an AVR and larger speakers. But the sound from the s15 is less rich than those 2 powered speakers.

Decided against Polk hts10 due to many issues with auto on and some saying boomy. Deciding between non-ported SVS 1000, RSL speedwoofer, and rhythmik subs. Thanks again.
RSL is ported but pro reviews have said it is excellent with music.

Free returns are nice.
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post #357 of 467 Old 09-25-2019, 10:09 AM
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To explain better, I'm hearing discordant sound in the mid to higher freqs, if that makes sense? Especially discordant cymbals and instruments like that are emphasized.
That will probably clear up once you add the subwoofer.
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post #358 of 467 Old 09-25-2019, 11:06 AM
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Yes, plan to pull speakers together so the L is further from side wall this weekend. As of now, the LR are 7' apart; I'll put them 4' apart because the s30 center sounds good.
If you're 11 feet away from your speakers, you probably don't want to narrow the field by putting them closer together. I would probably widen the distance, if anything, and not toe them in - but I know you probably can't widen because of the room.

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Yep, but did not change clarity. Center was always good. The bass fell away from the center as I pulled it forward. Now it sounds thin. But I'm leaving it pulled front.
Centre channels don't have to provide any real amount of bass frequencies since they're primarily for dialogue anyway.

And again... a subwoofer will help with bass depth. The speakers won't sound "thin" with that - I wouldn't be too concerned with that until you decide on a sub, and integrate it into your system.
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post #359 of 467 Old 09-26-2019, 09:49 PM
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Geoff, do you have the NS-SW050BL or the NS-SW100BL? BestBuy has only NS-SW050BL, so that's what I tried a few weeks ago.
I think I missed why you returned that sub the first time?

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post #360 of 467 Old 09-27-2019, 09:43 AM
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Geoff, do you have the NS-SW050BL or the NS-SW100BL? BestBuy has only NS-SW050BL, so that's what I tried a few weeks ago.
I have two of the SW012s in my secondary room, older model of the 50BL but identical in every way but looks.
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