Polk S15s sound better than S50s - Page 14 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #391 of 430 Old 09-12-2019, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
Thanks but nope, only bass and treble in the settings menu related to frequency. The other EQ options in the settings menu are Flat, Engineered, None, Auto, Night, Dynamic, Compressed. All sound the same. There's one option Music but only works with external CD player not streaming.

I set bass to +3db and treble to -3 dB to try.

One idea I have is use Dolby Surround to upmix 2-channel to surround so that 80% comes out of the center speaker like HT.

How do you like the signs I posted for my wife now that I finally got the toe-in and distance between speakers right? :-)
"You can also select [Equalizer] in [Sound Effects] from the home menu. Additionally, you can adjust the equalizer from the [<EQ>] menu on the display panel by pressing AMP MENU."

https://helpguide.sony.net/ha/strdn1...001221277.html

unless I am mistaken, you should.
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post #392 of 430 Old 09-12-2019, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
"You can also select [Equalizer] in [Sound Effects] from the home menu. Additionally, you can adjust the equalizer from the [<EQ>] menu on the display panel by pressing AMP MENU."

https://helpguide.sony.net/ha/strdn1...001221277.html

unless I am mistaken, you should.
Wow really helpful! Gonna try tonight. (Can swear that everytime I selected Equalizer from any menu earlier, all I got was bass and treble settings.) The info in the website above is not in the printed manual I received with the AVR. Let me try today.

To confirm, set -3dB at 2-3 kHz?

Hate to be a naysayer but I just read your link again and they also say all you can change is C (bass) and D (treble). This is exactly what I see on every menu too. There is no Hz setting. But I'll try tonight.

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post #393 of 430 Old 09-12-2019, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
Wow really helpful! Gonna try tonight. (Can swear that everytime I selected Equalizer from any menu earlier, all I got was bass and treble settings.) The info in the website above is not in the printed manual I received with the AVR. Let me try today.

To confirm, set -3dB at 2-3 kHz?

Hate to be a naysayer but I just read your link again and they also say all you can change is C (bass) and D (treble). This is exactly what I see on every menu too. There is no Hz setting. But I'll try tonight.
Well, the "additionally" part might be more of a fine-tuning thing. I would be pretty surprised if it did not have any manual EQ adjustments.

No idea regarding -3dB at 2-3kHz, that's an answer someone else can maybe address.
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post #394 of 430 Old 09-12-2019, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
If you would like to keep the S15’s, some simple eq will fix it, a slight notch at 2-3khz will remove most sibilance.

I wouldn’t mix, I prefer to have all matching brands in a system, but the LX16’s would definitely be sibilance free, I think @gajCA can agree.

The Q Acoustics should be warm, not as warm as the Martin Logan’s, and the Kef will be sibilance free also, though not warm until you get to the higher R line. The Q line will be neutral, a little forward. I’d put them somewhere in between the Q Acoustics and Polk S15’s.
I think the OP just needs a better AVR as his next step to be honest; one with better EQ and option for Manual EQ with equalizer.
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post #395 of 430 Old 09-12-2019, 11:57 AM
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Are you serious? I just got the Sony 3 months ago because CNET and some other sites rated it best of 2019 midlevel AVRs.
Well, it seems it won't do what you want to do now which is EQ out some sibilance so it seems quite limited for your needs.

But if it is that new, hang on to it of course.

Denon has numerous ways to address that issue in most of their receivers including something called Cinema EQ.

Cinema EQ and THX Re-equalization® share a common goal as they’re both designed to remove excessive high frequency information from movie soundtracks optimized for theatrical presentation.

Re-equalization, part of THX’s collection of technologies, is a specially-contoured "shelving filter" that gently adjusts the extreme high frequency range of the front channels, to compensate for the fact that many film soundtracks mixed for theatrical conditions sound very bright when played in a home environment. Whenever you select THX processing for a Dolby Pro Logic or Dolby Digital source, THX re-equalization circuitry is automatically activated and contours the sound for proper reproduction in the typical home theater room.

Denon’s "Cinema EQ," actually developed as a "stand alone" solution to overly-bright soundtracks before THX put its bundled technologies together, approaches the excessive high frequency problem from a different perspective. The "Cinema EQ" circuit has a progressively greater effect on frequencies further away from the "corner frequency," which is the point where the filter begins to operate.
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post #396 of 430 Old 09-12-2019, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
Are you serious? I just got the Sony 3 months ago because CNET and some other sites rated it best of 2019 midlevel AVRs.

I stopped paying attention to CNET because they give everything a good rating similar to Stereophile (But stereophile reviews items 10-100x more expensive hah).

But I don’t think I’ve ever seen Sony come up as a top suggestion here at AVS or Audioholics, so there’s that.

But as @gajCA said, hang on to it as it’s pretty new, but if it’s returnable, it’s worth around $600 new(?) which can get you a nice Denon X3500H which has pre-outs, Audessey XT32 EQ, Manual EQ, and a bunch of other stuff, along with what GajCA mentioned.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #397 of 430 Old 09-12-2019, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
But I don’t think I’ve ever seen Sony come up as a top suggestion here at AVS or Audioholics, so there’s that.

But as @gajCA said, hang on to it as it’s pretty new, but if it’s returnable, it’s worth around $600 new(?) which can get you a nice Denon X3500H which has pre-outs, Audessey XT32 EQ, Manual EQ, and a bunch of other stuff, along with what GajCA mentioned.
Unless Elac really ****s the bed on me, and doesn't do anything to remedy the issue of their app not working on iOS13, my next HT upgrade will be the AVR - but only to something that has the next HDMI/HDCP standards. I have an Onkyo now, but will more than likely move over to Denon.
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post #398 of 430 Old 09-12-2019, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
Unless Elac really ****s the bed on me, and doesn't do anything to remedy the issue of their app not working on iOS13, my next HT upgrade will be the AVR - but only to something that has the next HDMI/HDCP standards. I have an Onkyo now, but will more than likely move over to Denon.

Onkyo owner here too
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #399 of 430 Old 09-12-2019, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Denon has numerous ways to address that issue in most of their receivers including something called Cinema EQ.
First I'll try Ryan's tips to find manual EQ on my Sony. If it doesn't work, I'll try to sell the Sony on Craigslist and come back here to get recommendations on a cheaper Denon that has sibilance reduction options(*). I bought the $599 Sony on sale at $429. A 5.1 Denon AVR will work since I'm not planning atmos anymore.

The sibilance is indeed irritating especially since all my music seems to have freqs in that area (e.g., Freebird by Skynyrd).

(*)Will wait 3 months first to see if break in happens at all.
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post #400 of 430 Old 09-12-2019, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
Could the issue be your phone? Sonos app doesn't work on my 2017 Android phone but works perfectly on my wife's 2018 Android phone. Both phones are entry level Samsung.
It's known that the sub control app doesn't function on iOS13. It boots, but you get a blank screen.

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post #401 of 430 Old 09-12-2019, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
First I'll try Ryan's tips to find manual EQ on my Sony. If it doesn't work, I'll try to sell the Sony on Craigslist and come back here to get recommendations on a cheaper Denon that has sibilance reduction options(*). I bought the $599 Sony on sale at $429. A 5.1 Denon AVR will work since I'm not planning atmos anymore.

The sibilance is indeed irritating especially since all my music seems to have freqs in that area (e.g., Freebird by Skynyrd).

(*)Will wait 3 months first to see if break in happens at all.
Could be the source.
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post #402 of 430 Old 09-12-2019, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
First I'll try Ryan's tips to find manual EQ on my Sony. If it doesn't work, I'll try to sell the Sony on Craigslist and come back here to get recommendations on a cheaper Denon that has sibilance reduction options(*). I bought the $599 Sony on sale at $429. A 5.1 Denon AVR will work since I'm not planning atmos anymore.

The sibilance is indeed irritating especially since all my music seems to have freqs in that area (e.g., Freebird by Skynyrd).

(*)Will wait 3 months first to see if break in happens at all.
There's a very good chance that I am simply misreading what the manual says. It would be very strange if it had no manual EQ settings apart from ones that have pre-set, internal adjustments.

Even if you're not planning Atmos, a 7.2ch AVR wouldn't be a bad idea - at least you'd have the flexibility to do Atmos if you changed your mind later on.
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You're killing me, gajCA.
He could be right, though. Some speakers uncover a lot of things in an audio recording that warmer speakers wouldn't reveal.
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post #404 of 430 Old 09-12-2019, 01:07 PM
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He could be right, though. Some speakers uncover a lot of things in an audio recording that warmer speakers wouldn't reveal.
And some sources just suck.

As the OP mentioned FM radio, some strong stations sound great while others do not.

Sibilance is in the 5khz 8khz range and sometimes above.

Looking at the measurements for the S60 and S20 at Sound & Vision shows no bump in the 5-8khz area but a gentle rise thereafter.

IIRC correctly the OP's left speaker is near a wall so could be wall reflection. The OP could do a simple temporary test and put up a blanket or pillows or whatnot at that first reflection point to see if that kills the sibilance.

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As the OP mentioned FM radio, some strong stations sound great while others do not.

Sibilance is in the 5khz 8khz range and sometimes above.

Looking at the measurements for the S60 and S20 at Sound & Vision shows no bump in the 5-8khz area but a gentle rise thereafter.

IIRC correctly the OP's left speaker is near a wall so could be wall reflection. The OP could do a simple temporary test and put up a blanket or pillows or whatnot at that first reflection point to see if that kills the sibilance.

My source is Google Play (paid account at highest streaming rate). I connect phone to AVR using Chromecast on AVR. I'll try connecting phone to TV by Chromecast and then use HDMI ARC from TV to AVR.

Your measurements show a very strong rise after 10 kHz, which is likely what I'm hearing?

FM Top 40 (strong signal) sounds great.

My L speaker points away from sidewall toed in directly to me.
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My source is Google Play (paid account at highest streaming rate). I connect phone to AVR using Chromecast on AVR. I'll try connecting phone to TV by Chromecast and then use HDMI ARC from TV to AVR.

Your measurements show a very strong rise after 10 kHz, which is likely what I'm hearing?

FM Top 40 (strong signal) sounds great.

My L speaker points away from sidewall toed in directly to me.
Not nearly as pronounced a rise as Golden Ears, as just one example.

Some people like a bit of a bump there and I don't mind it to be honest.
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post #407 of 430 Old 09-12-2019, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Not nearly as pronounced a rise as Golden Ears, as just one example.

Some people like a bit of a bump there and I don't mind it to be honest.
The AVR has no freq EQ (sorry Ryan) and I was willing to try anything tonight so I connected my phone by Bluetooth instead of Chromecast. What the heck?!??!?! Bluetooth is clearer???! I specifically bought this AVR over cheaper ones because it has Chromecast built-in and I avoided BT like the plague because of all the articles I read saying Wi-Fi is superior.

I'm playing all my music very loud and there's either no sibilance or very small amount that doesn't bother me. What gives. I could never play this loud using Chromecast because my ears hurt. Something is strange. Also, bass and midrange improved without the sub connected! Lead guitar not hurting.

When using BT, the AVR has an option called Audio Enhancer (not available on Chromecast) that I set ON. Maybe this helped? I mean the s15 is still not warm, but much better than Chromecast. (I did pull the fronts 6" from wall as advised.)

OK, let me try again with Chromecast and see.
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post #408 of 430 Old 09-12-2019, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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The AVR has no freq EQ (sorry Ryan) and I was willing to try anything tonight so I connected my phone by Bluetooth instead of Chromecast. What the heck?!??!?! Bluetooth is clearer???! I specifically bought this AVR over cheaper ones because it has Chromecast built-in and I avoided BT like the plague because of all the articles I read saying Wi-Fi is superior.
I think I've gone crazy. Chromecast is also much improved over yesterday! Did my ears break in or did the 6" space between the s15 and wall make such a difference?

OK not really. Freebird still has a lot of sibilance but Texas Flood does not. I wonder if Google Play has recordings of different quality on their cloud.

I don't trust my ears anymore. Freebird sounds better on Chromecast than BT...I'm out.

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I think I've gone crazy. Chromecast is also much improved over yesterday! Did my ears break in or did the 6" space between the s15 and wall make such a difference?

OK not really. Freebird still has a lot of sibilance but Texas Flood does not. I wonder if Google Play has recordings of different quality on their cloud.

I don't trust my ears anymore. Freebird sounds better on Chromecast than BT...I'm out.
I think you might be getting too hung up on this sibilance thing.
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Onkyo owner here too
I have no complaints, but I would probably appreciate "better" room calibration software for next gen.
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post #411 of 430 Old 09-12-2019, 11:17 PM
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I think I've gone crazy. Chromecast is also much improved over yesterday! Did my ears break in or did the 6" space between the s15 and wall make such a difference?



OK not really. Freebird still has a lot of sibilance but Texas Flood does not. I wonder if Google Play has recordings of different quality on their cloud.



I don't trust my ears anymore. Freebird sounds better on Chromecast than BT...I'm out.

Well just keep playing around, eventually all the puzzle pieces will fit and you’ll be happy.

I think we’ve laid out every possible tip so it’s up to you what to do now.
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #412 of 430 Old 09-13-2019, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
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I think you might be getting too hung up on this sibilance thing.
Could be. FM top 40 is still clear this morning while Molly Hatchet songs played from phone are fatiguing with the high-frequency ssssss noise but other bands played from laptop are great.

Chromecast or Wi-Fi may be part of the problem - dropped again this morning. Why did I throw away all my CDs dammit??

I don't trust wireless music -- not ready for primetime. Since yesterday, my Sonos cannot connect to my Google Play Music account using voice commands.

So it looks like the s15 are indeed good when given a good source.
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post #413 of 430 Old 09-13-2019, 07:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Well just keep playing around, eventually all the puzzle pieces will fit and you’ll be happy.

I think we’ve laid out every possible tip so it’s up to you what to do now.
Yep, this has been a helpful exercise. Would anyone have a suggestion for a streaming solution not using my phone to connect by Chromecast to the AVR? I mean is there some box that connects wired to the AVR but still streams (not CDs)?
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Yep, this has been a helpful exercise. Would anyone have a suggestion for a streaming solution not using my phone to connect by Chromecast to the AVR? I mean is there some box that connects wired to the AVR but still streams (not CDs)?
Do you use PC or Mac? Maybe streaming from your phone isn't the best - have you tried streaming from your computer?
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post #415 of 430 Old 09-14-2019, 09:38 AM
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Thanks man, it's the same from laptop. Many reviews said it's not a warm speaker; I guess they're right. The AVR and speakers are great for HT.

Imaging is great now I got toe in and speaker separation correct.
If music is your main focus, then something just a little warmer probably would have been more suited to your needs.
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post #416 of 430 Old 09-15-2019, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Do you use PC or Mac? Maybe streaming from your phone isn't the best - have you tried streaming from your computer?
I'm beginning to see now why RayGuy mentioned headphones and filling a smaller volume of air earlier in this thread. Listened to an expensive pair of headphones at a friend's place yesterday. Earlier I never understood why people discuss or buy expensive headphones - I've always used a $9 pair. The expensive ones sounded amazing - better than any external stereo I've listened to. No painful high freq, bass and enveloping feeling perfectly matched. This might be a/one solution for me since I can't play loud at home on external speakers anyway since the room is open to the house.

I also saw the importance of a well integrated sub for HT. I listened to part of a drama (Woman in Gold) that should typically have no LFE in my opinion. Hence I've not had a sub in 20 years because we only watch dramas. There was a lot of low freq ambient noise that really added emotionally to scenes like at the holocaust memorial and in general when folks aren't talking.

I returned gajCA's sub soon after buying and didn't get a chance to integrate/place or dial in properly to test but will def get a brown hts10 on sale now.
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post #417 of 430 Old 09-15-2019, 12:27 PM
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I also saw the importance of a well integrated sub for HT. I listened to part of a drama (Woman in Gold) that should typically have no LFE in my opinion. Hence I've not had a sub in 20 years because we only watch dramas. There was a lot of low freq ambient noise that really added emotionally to scenes like at the holocaust memorial and in general when folks aren't talking.

I returned gajCA's sub soon after buying and didn't get a chance to integrate/place or dial in properly to test but will def get a brown hts10 on sale now.
Good plan.
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post #418 of 430 Old 09-15-2019, 02:53 PM
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I returned gajCA's sub soon after buying and didn't get a chance to integrate/place or dial in properly to test but will def get a brown hts10 on sale now.
Why would you return it without properly testing it out?

Subs aren't only for high-action movies/TV shows or music that typically use a lot of bass (Hip Hop, for example). All content will have frequencies lower than what regular speakers can produce, and the sub is just there to fill that lower end - especially if music is your main focus, IMO. I would think that a sub that can produce a clear, flat enough response at the same frequency as the lowest note on a piano is GE.

It sounds like throughout all of this that you've had your heart set on the HTS10 - I think you will be perfectly happy with that subwoofer.
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post #419 of 430 Old 09-15-2019, 04:23 PM
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I just wanted to try out a sub to see what it adds since I never had one. The Yamaha is great but as you said I'd really like the matching hts10 in brown.

Google Play actually has an EQ on the app. What would you suggests for the following settings to make it a warm sound with vocals emphasized? I can select between options A or B below.

A. Set knob on a sliding scale from Bass at one end to Treble at other end. (I'm thinking of setting this to 60/40 in favor of Bass). Set knob on a sliding scale from Instrument at one end to Vocals at other end. (I'm thinking of setting this to 100/0 in favor of Vocal). Select between Tube Amp or Concert Reverb. (I'm thinking of selecting Tube Amp).

B. Set EQ between -10dB to +10dB for each of 60, 150, 400, 1k, 3k, 8k, 16k Hz.
I think the only real answer is set it to whatever sounds the best to your ears. I don't personally use streaming apps for music, so I wouldn't have any real insight on any of that.
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post #420 of 430 Old 09-19-2019, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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I think the only real answer is set it to whatever sounds the best to your ears. I don't personally use streaming apps for music, so I wouldn't have any real insight on any of that.
Ryan, I'm trying to understand how to set up a sub correctly. Could you please explain why, in the other thread, you mentioned setting crossover to 80 but LFE to 120?
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