Credibility of "Professional" Speaker Reviews dealt a Death Blow - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 132 Old 08-12-2019, 10:10 AM
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The attempt to discredit the Clio impedance plot is pretty sketchy. The Clio system has been around for many years and is very reliable - I used it for 15+ years myself. The response curves are actually more telling of the speaker's performance and the reviewer overlooked quite a few problems. Kudos to Eric for trying to sell a large speaker assembled in the USA at this pricepoint; however, the design is severely compromised.
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post #92 of 132 Old 08-12-2019, 10:41 AM
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I don't know the first thing about that measurement, but just the tone of the response raised my suspicions. I don't entirely buy it, but I'll defer to those more experienced.
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post #93 of 132 Old 08-12-2019, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I don't know the first thing about that measurement, but just the tone of the response raised my suspicions. I don't entirely buy it, but I'll defer to those more experienced.
Mike, who likes his Tektons, is on point.

"Everyone must like and laud my speakers or I'll rip them to shreds" is hardly a compelling position to take.

For that reason alone they are off my radar and I won't recommend them to friends or family...plus I can't figure out how a tweeter can effectively play down to 750hz, (but maybe they are just small midrange drivers, I have no idea).

There are several designers on here regularly who are the polar opposite which is why I would be very happy to try well regarded Ascend, Selah Audio, Salk, Philharmonic Audio (used) or PSA speakers and share my thoughts should others be interested.

But I won't as my wife would kill me!

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post #94 of 132 Old 08-12-2019, 02:43 PM
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I just look for the reviewers that give us the honest disclaimer of "I was given this product for free or at a steep discount but my reviews are completely uninfluenced by that and are my own opinion" to put me at ease.

*wink, wink*
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post #95 of 132 Old 08-12-2019, 03:45 PM
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This thread is so much fun I'm featuring it in the AVS Forum newsletter, which goes out this evening.

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Last edited by imagic; 08-12-2019 at 06:24 PM.
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post #96 of 132 Old 08-12-2019, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
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this thread is so much fun i'm featuring it in the avs forum newsletter, which goes out this evening.
hahaha :d

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post #97 of 132 Old 08-12-2019, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I don't know the first thing about that measurement, but just the tone of the response raised my suspicions. I don't entirely buy it, but I'll defer to those more experienced.
Actually the poor vertical and horizontal response are worse problems than the lack of bracing. Also disturbing is that Tekton speakers have tested sensitivity numbers that are not even close to their specifications. This has been noted in more than one Stereophile review.

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post #98 of 132 Old 08-12-2019, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick Craig View Post
Actually the poor vertical and horizontal response are worse problems than the lack of bracing. Also disturbing is that Tekton speakers have tested sensitivity numbers that are not even close to their specifications. This has been noted in more than one Stereophile review.
Measurements cannot capture the essence of a Tekton. They are transcendent. You just need to listen to believe .

At least that's what I've read. In fact, the last I read is that many reviewers end up as owners with Tektons as their reference. That must mean more than measurements, no?

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post #99 of 132 Old 08-12-2019, 06:49 PM
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Measurements cannot capture the essence of a Tekton. They are transcendent. You just need to listen to believe .

At least that's what I've read. In fact, the last I read is that many reviewers end up as owners with Tektons as their reference. That must mean more than measurements, no?

I'm waiting for a speaker to appear that's so good, the reviewer buys the company!


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post #100 of 132 Old 08-13-2019, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Mike, who likes his Tektons, is on point.

"Everyone must like and laud my speakers or I'll rip them to shreds" is hardly a compelling position to take.

For that reason alone they are off my radar and I won't recommend them to friends or family...plus I can't figure out how a tweeter can effectively play down to 750hz, (but maybe they are just small midrange drivers, I have no idea).

There are several designers on here regularly who are the polar opposite which is why I would be very happy to try well regarded Ascend, Selah Audio, Salk, Philharmonic Audio (used) or PSA speakers and share my thoughts should others be interested.

But I won't as my wife would kill me!
Ah, don't worry about your wife...lol

Seriously, the SB Acoustics 1" is a tweeter and trying to operate it at 750hz at full power would be trouble. I've used the same tweeter and even with a multiple of them it's not going to be good for the midrange. The system impedance indicates that the crossover point may be much higher than indicated. It could easily be tested to see what the crossover point and slope is. The vertical response curves in Stereophile of the other Tekton models are a good place to start.
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post #101 of 132 Old 08-14-2019, 10:06 AM
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Ah, don't worry about your life...lol
Fixed that for you!
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post #102 of 132 Old 08-14-2019, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mpk1970 View Post
I'm on a Tekton Facebook group. This review came up with a lot of comments.
This "professional" reviewer named Ron did one review of the Tekton Impact Mondel (approx $2,000/pr) months ago, then came back and finished his review just a couple days ago...
Find it here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w8jnkEfrww

Around the 3:30 mark things get weird.

I'm sum it up:

-Reviewers paid by Manufacturers it appears
-Bad/Neutral reviews probably mean manufacturers didnt pay reviewer or speakers really bad
-Very good reviews mean manufacturers paid the reviewer very well

For me, I will NOT put any credibility to a professional review.

My trusted source moving forward, will be from everyday guys like us who buy/review speakers and write the experience in forums like AVSforum. The more of us that can review a certain brand/model of speakers of our opinions the better we can be informed.
What about IMagic? He’s a paid reviewer too!!
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post #103 of 132 Old 08-14-2019, 12:41 PM
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What about IMagic? He’s a paid reviewer too!!
I'm not paid per review. What that guy is talking about is approaching a company to do an independent review and charging the company to write it.

Also, more generally, I'm not a "speaker reviewer." I'm Editor of this site which covers a lot more ground, including all the video-related stuff. Speakers are a fun niche but they are not even the main part of my job.

And... part of my job is straight-up pointing people to deals on speakers/AVRs/TVs/headphones/youname it... and including a "Buy Now" link in the post. So I'm not going to sit around blabbing about objectivity all day long. If I see decent speakers at 50% off, that's a post.

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post #104 of 132 Old 08-14-2019, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick Craig View Post
Actually the poor vertical and horizontal response are worse problems than the lack of bracing. Also disturbing is that Tekton speakers have tested sensitivity numbers that are not even close to their specifications. This has been noted in more than one Stereophile review.

Is vertical response a big deal? I was under the impression that horizontal response is a far more telling/important metric than vertical. But I could be a) grossly oversimplifying, or b) just flat out wrong.


Just curious and trying to better educate myself.
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post #105 of 132 Old 08-14-2019, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I'm not paid per review. What that guy is talking about is approaching a company to do an independent review and charging the company to write it.

Also, more generally, I'm not a "speaker reviewer." I'm Editor of this site which covers a lot more ground, including all the video-related stuff. Speakers are a fun niche but they are not even the main part of my job.

And... part of my job is straight-up pointing people to deals on speakers/AVRs/TVs/headphones/youname it... and including a "Buy Now" link in the post. So I'm not going to sit around blabbing about objectivity all day long. If I see decent speakers at 50% off, that's a post.
And if I see speakers at 50% off and you buy them for me at 50 % off, that's a double post for me

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post #106 of 132 Old 08-14-2019, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Actually the poor vertical and horizontal response are worse problems than the lack of bracing. Also disturbing is that Tekton speakers have tested sensitivity numbers that are not even close to their specifications. This has been noted in more than one Stereophile review.
@Rick Craig Rick, don't a lot of companies fudge their sensitivity #'s ? we all hear about a big company that begins with a K

Not sure on others.
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post #107 of 132 Old 08-14-2019, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by mpk1970 View Post
@Rick Craig Rick, don't a lot of companies fudge their sensitivity #'s ? we all hear about a big company that begins with a K

Not sure on others.
I guess Tekton speakers aren't as sensitive as their owner!
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post #108 of 132 Old 08-14-2019, 05:03 PM
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The humor in this thread starts with the title. The premise that one questionable review could be a "death blow" to all professional reviews is certainly laughable. We live in an era where all previously trusted sources of data are being portrayed as unreliable by those who seek to become the new trusted sources. As The Who concluded so aptly in Won't Get Fooled Again: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
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post #109 of 132 Old 08-14-2019, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I guess Tekton speakers aren't as sensitive as their owner!
LOL you know me Geoff I have no problem buying new speakers tomorrow if I see fit so nothing really bothers me about speakers.
I do think its misleading that a company does it, but I was just asking Rick seriously don't most do it? Emotiva states 4 ohm but really 6 ohm, they do the reverse psychology on ya.

Didnt KLH inflate their specs too by the way?
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The humor in this thread starts with the title. The premise that one questionable review could be a "death blow" to all professional reviews is certainly laughable. We live in an era where all previously trusted sources of data are being portrayed as unreliable by those who seek to become the new trusted sources. As The Who concluded so aptly in Won't Get Fooled Again: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
whats laughable? Maybe you knew that most of the reviewers are paid by the speaker company, but it opened a whole new perspective for me. There are many examples of a "one" of someone, something that ruins the whole segment so I thought it was eye opening

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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I'm not paid per review. What that guy is talking about is approaching a company to do an independent review and charging the company to write it.

Also, more generally, I'm not a "speaker reviewer." I'm Editor of this site which covers a lot more ground, including all the video-related stuff. Speakers are a fun niche but they are not even the main part of my job.

And... part of my job is straight-up pointing people to deals on speakers/AVRs/TVs/headphones/youname it... and including a "Buy Now" link in the post. So I'm not going to sit around blabbing about objectivity all day long. If I see decent speakers at 50% off, that's a post.
Good enough. I understand AVS needs to keep the lights on and manufacturers need to stay in business too. Everybody appreciates a good deal and it helps keep the economy going. All I’m saying is the pressures of the market place dictate the need to convince the public they constantly need to always upgrade. I guess it’s always been that way and the audio world is very competitive like every other industry.
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post #112 of 132 Old 08-15-2019, 08:26 AM
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@Rick Craig Rick, don't a lot of companies fudge their sensitivity #'s ? we all hear about a big company that begins with a K

Not sure on others.
It does happen with other companies but this is probably the worst example I've seen - one of the Tekton speakers actually lists the sensitivity at 98dB when the tweeter itself (only one is used) is at best 95dB (maybe less than that depending on which version they use). Some of the marketing is aimed at SET amp users which are very low-powered amps and a 6dB difference means 4x the power needed.

If you look at the SoundStage speaker testing you can see how the various brands fare with the real number. https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/in...=16&Itemid=140
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post #113 of 132 Old 08-15-2019, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick Craig View Post
It does happen with other companies but this is probably the worst example I've seen - one of the Tekton speakers actually lists the sensitivity at 98dB when the tweeter itself (only one is used) is at best 95dB (maybe less than that depending on which version they use). Some of the marketing is aimed at SET amp users which are very low-powered amps and a 6dB difference means 4x the power needed.

If you look at the SoundStage speaker testing you can see how the various brands fare with the real number. https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/in...=16&Itemid=140
Klipsch is posting a in-room sensitivity number along with an asterisk. That is not to say that Klipsch should not also post the anechoic sensitivity number, most people either don't notice the asterisk or don't understand the difference. And when I see a reviewer like Steve Gartenberg over at CNET get confused about this, I understand that a typical consumer cannot be expected to figure this out. Klipsch prevents apples-to-apples sensitivity comparisons by doing this, which is not so awesome.
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post #114 of 132 Old 08-15-2019, 08:38 AM
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Is vertical response a big deal? I was under the impression that horizontal response is a far more telling/important metric than vertical. But I could be a) grossly oversimplifying, or b) just flat out wrong.


Just curious and trying to better educate myself.
Yes, the horizontal is more important but the vertical coverage is still a factor that has to be considered. This particular design is more prone to vertical dispersion problems. This is easily audible if you change the listening height by slightly lowering or raising your head. Ideally you want a minimal change in tonality for a range of listening heights.
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post #115 of 132 Old 08-15-2019, 09:18 AM
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LOL you know me Geoff I have no problem buying new speakers tomorrow if I see fit so nothing really bothers me about speakers.
I do think its misleading that a company does it, but I was just asking Rick seriously don't most do it? Emotiva states 4 ohm but really 6 ohm, they do the reverse psychology on ya.

Didnt KLH inflate their specs too by the way?
Well, Emotiva is honest in their spec if you look at the Sound and Vision measurements.

They found the minimum impedance of the T1 to be 3.5ohms, C1 4.2 and the E1 5.1.

That myth was created by Zorba that opined they just wanted to throw out a 4ohm spec to sell amps.

KLH Albany were easy enough to drive but they had the identical sensitivity to the Concept 20s and LX16s which are rated 92db sensitivity, 88db and 92db respectively and 8ohm, 6ohm and 5ohm respectively.

Not smart enough to know how the interaction of sensitivity and nominal impedance affects SPL but in my homw they all had identical SPL at a given volume level on my NAD receiver using pink noise and SPL meter so not sure who is fibbing on what there.

But definitely KLH lies through their teeth saying the 5.25" sealed Albany has frequency response: 35-23,000 Hz (±3dB).

Both the LX16 and Concept 20 had better bass extension and those specs are 60hz and 64hz respectively and indeed that is about where their -3db points were using an SPL meter and test tones.
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post #116 of 132 Old 08-15-2019, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Headspace View Post
Good enough. I understand AVS needs to keep the lights on and manufacturers need to stay in business too. Everybody appreciates a good deal and it helps keep the economy going. All I’m saying is the pressures of the market place dictate the need to convince the public they constantly need to always upgrade. I guess it’s always been that way and the audio world is very competitive like every other industry.
Funny, isn't it, this consumerism and upgraditis which, thankfully, eludes me.

Been in the same house since 1984, (albeit with several major improvement projects), same car since 1994, my motorcycles are 13 and 12 years old, main speakers are 12 year old as is the Plasma TV, the rear speakers are 30 years old etc. etc.

I think that is quite unusual but, for me, if it does what I want it to do and it still works, why replace it?

Mind you I did enjoy driving my friend's recentish vintage Porsche 911 still worth about $60k today.

But I'll keep my MX5 Miata Type R, worth, oh, maybe $4000?

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post #117 of 132 Old 08-15-2019, 09:27 AM
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Well, Emotiva is honest in their spec if you look at the Sound and Vision measurements.

They found the minimum impedance of the T1 to be 3.5ohms, C1 4.2 and the E1 5.1.

That myth was created by Zorba that opined they just wanted to throw out a 4ohm spec to sell amps.

KLH Albany were easy enough to drive but they had the identical sensitivity to the Concept 20s and LX16s which are rated 92db sensitivity, 88db and 92db respectively and 8ohm, 6ohm and 5ohm respectively.

Not smart enough to know how the interaction of sensitivity and nominal impedance affects SPL but in my homw they all had identical SPL at a given volume level on my NAD receiver using pink noise and SPL meter so not sure who is fibbing on what there.

But definitely KLH lies through their teeth saying the 5.25" sealed Albany has frequency response: 35-23,000 Hz (±3dB).

Both the LX16 and Concept 20 had better bass extension and those specs are 60hz and 64hz respectively and indeed that is about where their -3db points were using an SPL meter and test tones.
Either that's a typo or it's wishful thinking.

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post #118 of 132 Old 08-15-2019, 09:57 AM
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Either that's a typo or it's wishful thinking.
From the Albany spec sheet found on their website:

https://klhaudio.com/content/Albany-Spec-Sheet.pdf

SPECIFICATIONS


Albany Bookshelf Speaker

Frequency response 35Hz-23kHz.+/-3dB

Sensitivity 92dB.

Power handling 200 watts.

Components 1 x 5.25” Woven Kevlar bass driver,

1 high performance 1” Anodized Aluminum tweeter

Finishes Walnut Wood Veneer or Black Oak Wood Veneer

Impedance 8Ω

Crossover point 2.4kHz.

Dimensions: 13” x 6.5” x 9.5” (H x W x D)

Weight: 11.24 lbs.
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post #119 of 132 Old 08-15-2019, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by mpk1970 View Post
whats laughable? Maybe you knew that most of the reviewers are paid by the speaker company, but it opened a whole new perspective for me. There are many examples of a "one" of someone, something that ruins the whole segment so I thought it was eye opening
What's laughable is that professional speaker reviews haven't been dealt a "death blow" by one funky YouTube review. Comical exaggerations like that tend to make people laugh. Yes, of course I knew that some reviewers of every imaginable product have lower personal standards and are less credible than others. Every thoughtful adult with experience in the real world should understand that this is true for people in every profession, from attorneys to salespeople to doctors to clergy. Understanding this and learning how to sort credible people from the phonies and posers is part of being an educated consumer. Disbelieving everyone in a group because you learn some can't be trusted is no more educated than believing them all in the first place.
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post #120 of 132 Old 08-15-2019, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Funny, isn't it, this consumerism and upgraditis which, thankfully, eludes me.

Been in the same house since 1984, (albeit with several major improvement projects), same car since 1994, my motorcycles are 13 and 12 years old, main speakers are 12 year old as is the Plasma TV, the rear speakers are 30 years old etc. etc.

I think that is quite unusual but, for me, if it does what I want it to do and it still works, why replace it?

Mind you I did enjoy driving my friend's recentish vintage Porsche 911 still worth about $60k today.

But I'll keep my MX5 Miata Type R, worth, oh, maybe $4000?
The Marketers and credit card companies don’t like bad consumers like you much!!
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