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post #1 of 13 Old 08-14-2019, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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New to the forum -Searching for speakers

So a little background. About 15 years ago I purchased a pair of klipsch rf35 speakers, an center channel, some Klipsch rears, and a polk sub. Along with a Yamaha amp. It was basically a wife selling off the ex husbands belongings. Never really complained about it to much and has always sounded OK given what I paid for it. Keep in mind that my grandfather shared my love of music and had a beautiful full Mcintosh system. Now my wife hates them. Not because they are in the way, or two loud or any other nonsense. She hates them because she hates the fake light cherry wood on them. On top of that the receiver is super dated, and the sub out no longer works.

While in buying a new tv last weekend we listened to a few speakers. The wife loved the martin Logan ESL speakers. I like them but there is a huge difference between the listening room at best buy and our home. This is what brings me here. We have what I would say a difficult room. It encompasses our living room, dinning area, and both our desks. Its 24' x 25' x 15' Its all concrete and bricks. We sit about 18' from our tv which is also where our stereo equipment is. I really want speakers that will fill this space. That wont sound like they don't have enough to get the job done. We budgeted about 5 thousand for the pair of front Left / Right speakers. I am open to suggestions as to what we should look at. we are talking about 9000 cubic foot. Which by the way is only walled off at 8 foot. The space goes further than that in side on the 25' side. Think partitions.

Sound quality is important to us. We know we are going to have to put some sound treatments on at least one wall. we do have a couple of rugs in this area along with two full size sofas. I am starting with front Left / Right speakers and going to build out from there. We will probably actually design the entire thing and start with a new pre pro and amp before we get the speakers.

I am open to any suggestions on this.
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post #2 of 13 Old 08-14-2019, 01:27 PM
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Have a look at PSA or JTR speakers. JTR has very nice 3 way speakers that work well for both music and HT. They are very efficient so will not need heavy duty amps. JTR's are more expensive but if you go with the NOESIS 212RT the frequency response is very good. 35-24KHz so sub not needed on music if you prefer. Sub is always good for HT tho.

http://jtrspeakers.com/noesis-212rt.html

Here is the JTR thread. Good review from Axpona show.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...l#post57940138

PSA speakers need sub for music and HT.

https://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/speakers

Here is the PSA thread

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...l#post57562944
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post #3 of 13 Old 08-14-2019, 01:52 PM
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"We will probably actually design the entire thing and start with a new pre pro and amp before we get the speakers." I was just going to suggest that. A few thoughts...

If you have a good AV dealer in your area, this might be a good time to enlist their help. They should be able to help you design a solution with a variety of options within a budget and timeline that meets your needs. If that isn't possible, there are AV dealers that appear on AVS Forum. Reaching out to one of them could be just the ticket.

FWIW I think you're in for a lot of fun.

Just one more upgrade and things will be perfect.
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post #4 of 13 Old 08-14-2019, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RhinoUnknown View Post
So a little background. About 15 years ago I purchased a pair of klipsch rf35 speakers, an center channel, some Klipsch rears, and a polk sub. Along with a Yamaha amp. It was basically a wife selling off the ex husbands belongings. Never really complained about it to much and has always sounded OK given what I paid for it. Keep in mind that my grandfather shared my love of music and had a beautiful full Mcintosh system. Now my wife hates them. Not because they are in the way, or two loud or any other nonsense. She hates them because she hates the fake light cherry wood on them. On top of that the receiver is super dated, and the sub out no longer works.

While in buying a new tv last weekend we listened to a few speakers. The wife loved the martin Logan ESL speakers. I like them but there is a huge difference between the listening room at best buy and our home. This is what brings me here. We have what I would say a difficult room. It encompasses our living room, dinning area, and both our desks. Its 24' x 25' x 15' Its all concrete and bricks. We sit about 18' from our tv which is also where our stereo equipment is. I really want speakers that will fill this space. That wont sound like they don't have enough to get the job done. We budgeted about 5 thousand for the pair of front Left / Right speakers. I am open to suggestions as to what we should look at. we are talking about 9000 cubic foot. Which by the way is only walled off at 8 foot. The space goes further than that in side on the 25' side. Think partitions.

Sound quality is important to us. We know we are going to have to put some sound treatments on at least one wall. we do have a couple of rugs in this area along with two full size sofas. I am starting with front Left / Right speakers and going to build out from there. We will probably actually design the entire thing and start with a new pre pro and amp before we get the speakers.

I am open to any suggestions on this.
Are you near any of these guys?

ACCESSORIES 4 LESS*** NEAR ORLANDO FLORIDA
APERION* NEAR PORTLAND OREGON
ASCEND** NEAR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA
CHANE TAMPA FLORIDA
CRUTCHFIELD*** CHARLOTTESVILLE VIRGINIA
DEEP SEA SOUND SUBS NEAR KNOXVILLE TENNESSEE
DIYSOUND GROUP CINCINNATI OHIO
EMOTIVA NEAR NASHVILLE TENNESSEE
HI FI HEAVEN*** GREEN BAY WISONSIN
HSU NEAR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA
HTD* NEAR DALLAS TEXAS
JTR NEAR MILWAUKEE WISCONSIN
MONOPRICE NEAR RIVERSIDE CALIFORNIA
MUSIC DIRECT*** CHICAGO ILLINOIS
NHT NEAR SAN FRANCISCO CALIFORNIA
OHM BROOKLYN NEW YORK
PSA NEAR YOUNGSTOWN OHIO
RBH NEAR SALT LAKE CITY UTAH
RHYTHMIK SUBS NEAR AUSTIN TEXAS
RSL* NEAR LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA
SALK AUDIO PONTIAC MICHIGAN
SATURDAY AUDIO--- CHICAGO ILLINOIS
SEATON SOUND NEAR CHICAGO ILLINOIS
SELAH AUDIO NEAR RALEIGH NORTH CAROLINA
SVS* YOUNGSTOWN OHIO
TEKTON NEAR PROVO UTAH
TYLER ACOUSTICS NEAR LOUISVILLE KENTUCKY
WORLDWIDE STEREO*** NEAR PHILADELPHIA PENNSYLVANIA

CANADIAN MANUFACTURERS
AXIOM NEAR TORONTO CANADA
FLUANCE NEAR TORONTO CANADA
FUNK AUDIO NEAR VANCOUVER CANADA
PARADIGM NEAR TORONTO CANADA
PSB NEAR TORONTO CANADA
TOTEM NEAR MONTREAL CANADA
* free return shipping
**Ascend also carries Rhythmik subwoofers on site
***retail outlet of many brands

Geoff A. J., California
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post #5 of 13 Old 08-14-2019, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RhinoUnknown View Post
So a little background. About 15 years ago I purchased a pair of klipsch rf35 speakers, an center channel, some Klipsch rears, and a polk sub. Along with a Yamaha amp. It was basically a wife selling off the ex husbands belongings. Never really complained about it to much and has always sounded OK given what I paid for it. Keep in mind that my grandfather shared my love of music and had a beautiful full Mcintosh system. Now my wife hates them. Not because they are in the way, or two loud or any other nonsense. She hates them because she hates the fake light cherry wood on them. On top of that the receiver is super dated, and the sub out no longer works.

While in buying a new tv last weekend we listened to a few speakers. The wife loved the martin Logan ESL speakers. I like them but there is a huge difference between the listening room at best buy and our home. This is what brings me here. We have what I would say a difficult room. It encompasses our living room, dinning area, and both our desks. Its 24' x 25' x 15' Its all concrete and bricks. We sit about 18' from our tv which is also where our stereo equipment is. I really want speakers that will fill this space. That wont sound like they don't have enough to get the job done. We budgeted about 5 thousand for the pair of front Left / Right speakers. I am open to suggestions as to what we should look at. we are talking about 9000 cubic foot. Which by the way is only walled off at 8 foot. The space goes further than that in side on the 25' side. Think partitions.

Sound quality is important to us. We know we are going to have to put some sound treatments on at least one wall. we do have a couple of rugs in this area along with two full size sofas. I am starting with front Left / Right speakers and going to build out from there. We will probably actually design the entire thing and start with a new pre pro and amp before we get the speakers.

I am open to any suggestions on this.
Klipsch Forte III or Cornwall III. Efficient and go low enough for music without the need for a sub and they look great. Either will easily fill your space with only a modest AVR.

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post #6 of 13 Old 08-14-2019, 03:12 PM
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Look at these threads:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...nce-shows.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...rs-thread.html

And this website: https://routledgetextbooks.com/textbooks/9781138921368/

I recommend buying the book but there is a lot of free information on the website.

$5,000 is MSRP for Revel F208's, highly regarded and recommended.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/...08-loudspeaker

https://hometheaterreview.com/revel-...aker-reviewed/

Rex Anderson
The Screening Room Home Theater System Design and Sales
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post #7 of 13 Old 08-14-2019, 03:54 PM
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Since you & your wife were impressed listening to the pricey Martin-Logan ESL Line of Speakers, you should look at OTHER M-L Electrostatic Speakers, incl. Center Speakers (which can also be used for Surrounds) which are also in the ESL series. These are some of the BEST speakers I have ever heard (but can't afford):
https://www.martinlogan.com/en/category/our-speakers [Check Amazon et.al. for the REAL Prices, incl s/h]

Since you like Electrostatic Speakers, note that QUAD recently re-entered the US Market with a new and improved product:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/...12-loudspeaker

BTW: These are DIPOLE Speakers [like Magnaplanar's], which radiate to BOTH Front and Back (incl. Woofers in most cases). They need ample room AROUND them if you want the sound from the Back to interact with the Forward Sound....or place cabinets on one or both sides if you want to attenuate the sound coming from Rear Woofer:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipole_speaker

As you can also see, M-L makes a lower cost speaker line which uses their "Thin Film" Tweeter Technology [aka AMT, Air Motion Transducer], an evolutionary improvement over Planar Magnetic and Ribbon Tweeters from which it was derived, which also provides very low distortion, fast transients, excellent imaging and mostly flat frequency response....due to suspending a Thin Film Membrane between Front & Back Magnet Structures (rather than Electrostatic Structures):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Motion_Transformer

BTW: My DIY L/R Speakers use SAME 8-in tall B-G NEO-8 Planar Magnetic Midrange as preceding M-L lower cost range (e.g. MOSAIC, etal)....except I configured JUST the Midrange in a Dipole configuration [I preferred Ribbon Super-Tweeter to B-G NEO-4 used in MOSAIC]....and DIY Center Speaker NOT in Dipole mode, cuz it's under my UDTV.

Last edited by holl_ands; 08-14-2019 at 04:39 PM.
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post #8 of 13 Old 08-14-2019, 05:51 PM
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Ill take another angle at this.

Make sure your wife isn’t buying with her eyes!

They look very cool and unique, but the way they sound is far and different from many other speakers. They are especially finicky to setup properly.

My suggestion, make sure she covers her eyes when she listens! That way she doesn’t pick the most expensive and probably most attractive pair (B&W 800 D3’s!).

Head over to an actual AV Dealer/Integrator. They have a better selection IMO and you can hear more stuff and in different rooms. They should have a very lenient trial policy that would allow you to try more stuff in your own room (very important!).

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #9 of 13 Old 08-14-2019, 06:19 PM
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check out Salk Sound for gorgeous finish and outstanding music quality, and at that budget check out Tekton design as well.

Main: Sony XBR75900E, Denon AVR-x4400, Denon POA-5200 (L/R(a) Goldenear supersat 60, (b)FW Boston acoustic Bravo 2. C Goldenear supersat 60C,
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post #10 of 13 Old 08-14-2019, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RhinoUnknown View Post
She hates them because she hates the fake light cherry wood on them. On top of that the receiver is super dated, and the sub out no longer works.

While in buying a new tv last weekend we listened to a few speakers. The wife loved the martin Logan ESL speakers. I like them but there is a huge difference between the listening room at best buy and our home. This is what brings me here. We have what I would say a difficult room. It encompasses our living room, dinning area, and both our desks. Its 24' x 25' x 15' Its all concrete and bricks. We sit about 18' from our tv which is also where our stereo equipment is. I really want speakers that will fill this space. That wont sound like they don't have enough to get the job done. We budgeted about 5 thousand for the pair of front Left / Right speakers. I am open to suggestions as to what we should look at. we are talking about 9000 cubic foot. Which by the way is only walled off at 8 foot. The space goes further than that in side on the 25' side. Think partitions.
9000 cubic feet, first thing you'll need to "fill" all that space is 1-2 monstrous subwoofers---this will be a hard sell with your aesthetic-conscious wife but if you can put them in corners, hidden by large plants or other decorative items, she just might be ok. Perhaps 1-2 of these (they do come in a nice Rosewood veneer btw):
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-15hmk2.html

These towers, with the RAAL tweeter, may give you the type of airy, highly detailed yet never-harsh big sound that your wife liked in the ML speakers and they do come in several very attractive finishes:
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages...s/SRT/srt.html

Big matching center here, which will be doing all the heavy lifting during movies:
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages...n/horizon.html

"All concrete and bricks" = highly reflective room = you might want to avoid anything with overly intense treble energy...the RAAL tweeter would be a good match there.

If you live anywhere near southern CA, you can go listen to these speakers at their company HQ in San Clemente.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #11 of 13 Old 08-15-2019, 12:57 PM
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First let's establish what you are looking for -

- Stereo or Surround Sound? Stereo returns higher value, but you have enough budget for Surround Speakers.

- Are you looking for JUST a pair of Front Speaker (Left/Right)?

- Do you plan to replace your amp and is that included in the budget?

- Can you itemize the equipment in your current system? Source Players? Amp/Receiver? All Speakers? Other?


Given that you bought the existing amp second hand, it is possible it is out of date relative to new AV Receivers.

Generally it is advised that the Three Front Speakers (Left/Center/Right) be tonally matched, and the easiest way to do that is with speakers from the same Brand and Series. For example, Monitor Audio Silver Front and Center.

24ft x 25ft x 15ft, seems logical, but can we assume 15ft is the floor to ceiling dimension?

Curious, you sit EIGHTEEN FEET away from the system? How big is your TV? Can we assume a projection screen? Still, it is what it is.

There are two aspects that have to be satisfied, one is sound at the seating distance, and the other is sound in the entire space.

I have a room that is 16ft x 35ft (open floor-plan), I frequently sit 25 feet away for my speakers which are 2x8" each, and have no problem reaching casual listening volumes for music (~75db to 80db). I would expect reasonable results with similar speakers in your space.

Next to efficiency is the actual size of the speakers, in my case 2x8" each. Most speakers with larger drivers push more air and have more weight and impact within a given space. They don't throw Rock Concerts with a pair of 5" bookshelf speakers. So the sense of scale and the ability to move air in a large space matters.

The Klipsch Forte-III have a 12" Bass driver, and in back have a 15" Passive Radiator. The Klipsch RF-7-III have TWO 10" Bass Drivers. These have no problem filling space -

https://www.klipsch.com/products/forte-iii

https://www.klipsch.com/products/rf-...anding-speaker

Generally if you want to fill a big space, you get very high efficiency (high Sensitivity rating) Speakers, typically with 90db or more rated Sensitivity. I think the recommended Klipsch Forte-III are very close to 100db Sensitivity. Keep in mind for each 3db shift in Rated Sensitivity in either direction, the power Doubles or Halves. So, relative to a 90db speaker, which is up there, and 99db speaker requires 1/8th the amount of power to reach a given volume.

Keep in mind, as can be seen from the example above, Power and Volume are not Linear. That is, huge changes in power only cause small changes in Volume. Others are free to correct me, but I think it takes TEN TIMES the power to double the volume. +3db doubles the power but is only a slight increase in the volume. But that doesn't change the fact that something like the FORTE-III takes 1/8th the power to reach a given volume level relative to a generally high efficiency 90db speaker.

Then there is the aesthetic aspect. How does your wife feel about Black speakers? If she doesn't like the current Cherry, then was does she like? Keep in mind today it is possible to get White speakers. Klipsch are typically Black, Cherry, or Walnut.

So ... Big High Sensitivity Speaker are what you are looking for. Though I suspect if you Amp/Receiver is 10 or 15 years old, it is long out of date relative to modern AV Receivers.

Steve/buewizard

Last edited by bluewizard; 08-15-2019 at 01:04 PM.
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post #12 of 13 Old 08-15-2019, 01:09 PM
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For reference, the Klipsch RF-35 are 2x8" Floorstanding Speakers -

http://images.klipsch.com/RF35_635042119157900000.pdf

The RP-Series is affordable and most definitely better than the RF-Series.

Steve/bluewizard
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post #13 of 13 Old 08-15-2019, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
The RP-Series is affordable and most definitely better than the RF-Series.

Steve/bluewizard
Plus, it has high sensitivity which will greatly help fill the OP's area with adequate sound volume. And you can get them in piano black finish. The OP only said that his wife hated the light cherry finish, but he did not mention what finish she liked.

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Last edited by Pete7874; 08-15-2019 at 01:20 PM.
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