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post #61 of 223 Old 08-17-2019, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post
That would be a shootout I'd love to see as well. Be careful when comparing different measurements in the bass, it's pretty hard to measure and many people have talked about the deficiencies even at the NRC anechoic chamber, so smaller companies like Burchardt and Ascend I'm sure aren't using anechoic chambers. The only real way to compare bass would be to do subwoofer style measurements to get the max output at a certain distortion level, I think 10% is the norm. Regardless of how much bass a speaker has, subwoofers are mandatory if you want the best possible bass in your room anyway, just due to setup restrictions of the mains.

The Sierra 2 EX are actually smoothed to 1/12 octave(You can see in the legend it says .08 octave), while the other 2 look more like 1/20, you can tell by the little ripples in the measurements that are absent in the Sierra 2. The S400 and the Sierra 2 EX do measure pretty well for sure but I don't think anyone would say they are at the level of the R3.

I'm actually not comparing bass in the measurements. I'm really only looking at 200 Hz and up. The bass comparisons are from those who have heard either the R3 vs S400, or S400 vs Sierra-2EX together.

And this is the KEF graph I was referring to - third party measurements don't look as perfect as that. That's why I think it is incorrect to say the S400 and Sierra-2EX are not up to par.

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post #62 of 223 Old 08-17-2019, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I'm actually not comparing bass in the measurements. I'm really only looking at 200 Hz and up. The bass comparisons are from those who have heard either the R3 vs S400, or S400 vs Sierra-2EX together.

And this is the KEF graph I was referring to - third party measurements don't look as perfect as that. That's why I think it is incorrect to say the S400 and Sierra-2EX are not up to par.
Agreed.

Not to mention Kef is only showing "power averages" which are overly smoothed by definition. Compare the whitepaper R11 to the NRC R11, for instance.

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post #63 of 223 Old 08-17-2019, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post
Come on, that's some random person measuring them with REW, I have no idea if they're outdoor measurements or time-gated, but they are nowhere near a proper measurement in an anechoic chamber. Look at the NRC measurements of the Revel F206 and the KEF R11, both are very good overall but you can see even off-axis, the KEF is a constant slope even out to 75 degrees, where the F206 doesn't quite match in the tweeter range. Matching directivity at all off-axis angles is really what separates the men from the boys.
I will give the KEFs that - one thing I have noticed is that their off-axis contour is much closer to its on-axis sound than most other speakers. Reminds me of the Ascend 170s, which achieves something similar with a conventional tweeter and woofer design.

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post #64 of 223 Old 08-17-2019, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Del Boca Vista View Post
Interesting analysis...good points! What im wondering though is, The special is 3k, the confidence i believe is 12k!!! So that is kind of an insane gap between the two, no?
I wondered that too, thought maybe he meant the Contour 20s(?).

I have Contour 20s and they’re probably never going to be replaced.

Owning the Contour 20s, but haven’t heard the Confidence 20s, honestly I have a hard time thinking they’d be 2 times better... maybe 10-20% but for $ to upgrade, I’ll probably never find out! Lol

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post #65 of 223 Old 08-17-2019, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I will give the KEFs that - one thing I have noticed is that their off-axis contour is much closer to its on-axis sound than most other speakers. That may be what causes some to find them to be too forward, like the Ascend 170s, which achieves something similar with a conventional tweeter and woofer design.
Horns, coaxes, and 3-ways allow for an even drop-off off-axis, horizontally. A 2-way cone and dome, will almost always have a dip off-axis, in all directions, around the crossover point. Some are more extreme in this regard than others.

A coax, whether 2-way or 3-way, will also allow for an even drop-off in the vertical direction (ideal point-source.) So coaxes do in fact have a unique advantage. Not all coaxes are perfect and some screw up driver integration like any other speaker, but they have that capability.

Kef is pretty much the gold standard in this regard, but I still attribute any forwardness to the basic listening window, and not off-axis responses. From my experience, you can look at a listening window graph of any speaker and get a feel for how it sounds. If it performs similar to that preferred listening window far off-axis, and in multiple directions, then even better.

That's just my opinion based on personal experience. Various rooms and seating arrangements might make any general off-axis considerations moot, anyway.

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post #66 of 223 Old 08-17-2019, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I'm actually not comparing bass in the measurements. I'm really only looking at 200 Hz and up. The bass comparisons are from those who have heard either the R3 vs S400, or S400 vs Sierra-2EX together.

And this is the KEF graph I was referring to - third party measurements don't look as perfect as that. That's why I think it is incorrect to say the S400 and Sierra-2EX are not up to par.
Bass is usually a function of cone size and cabinet dimensions, so I would be surprised if the R3 were outclassed by either of the other speakers but to me it doesn't matter because anyone serious about bass quality will have at least 2 subwoofers anyway. And the R11 measurements in Soundstage are pretty close to the whitepaper measurements, they are laid back on-axis with smoothly declining off-axis measurements.

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Originally Posted by l0nestar8 View Post
Agreed.

Not to mention Kef is only showing "power averages" which are overly smoothed by definition. Compare the whitepaper R11 to the NRC R11, for instance.
They are very similar, both show them to be laid back on-axis with very good off-axis directivity.

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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I will give the KEFs that - one thing I have noticed is that their off-axis contour is much closer to its on-axis sound than most other speakers. Reminds me of the Ascend 170s, which achieves something similar with a conventional tweeter and woofer design.
The Ascend 170's are very neutral on-axis and not very neutral off-axis, many people describe them as forward or bright.

For the record, I'm not trying to defend the Kef R series, I actually like the LS50 better, even though I fully understand it's shortcomings as well.
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post #67 of 223 Old 08-17-2019, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post
Bass is usually a function of cone size and cabinet dimensions, so I would be surprised if the R3 were outclassed by either of the other speakers but to me it doesn't matter because anyone serious about bass quality will have at least 2 subwoofers anyway. And the R11 measurements in Soundstage are pretty close to the whitepaper measurements, they are laid back on-axis with smoothly declining off-axis measurements.
Ahh, but lurking on the back of the S400 is this:

Click image for larger version

Name:	S400-white-3.jpg
Views:	35
Size:	86.9 KB
ID:	2604066

That is the game-changer.

The Sierra-2EX is using a new proprietary woofer that is expensive and unique to Ascend. Two very different approaches that end up with performance that is closer than you'd expect.

I agree about subwoofers, though. I don't really need 33 Hz in-room extension from my standmount speakers, that is just crazy. I'd rather give up some of that to gain sensitivity. 88 dB (in-room I think) isn't bad, but 90 would be nice to have and I wouldn't miss the bass with a couple of Rythmiks in the room.

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post #68 of 223 Old 08-17-2019, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Ahh, but lurking on the back of the S400 is this:

Attachment 2604066

That is the game-changer.

The Sierra-2EX is using a new proprietary woofer that is expensive and unique to Ascend. Two very different approaches that end up with performance that is closer than you'd expect.

I agree about subwoofers, though. I don't really need 33 Hz in-room extension from my standmount speakers, that is just crazy. I'd rather give up some of that to gain sensitivity. 88 dB isn't bad, but 90 would be nice to have and I wouldn't miss the bass with a couple of Rythmiks in the room.
I don't think a passive radiator produces any more extra bass than a port but I may be wrong. I do know I have had the Philharmonic BMR in my room, which no doubt produces more bass than any of the speakers mentioned and they still didn't produce as much as my cheap ass Polk PSW 505 lol...it's just simple physics. This is also why I always focus on 100Hz and up when comparing speakers, bass is easy with a couple of cheap subwoofers.
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post #69 of 223 Old 08-17-2019, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post
And the R11 measurements in Soundstage are pretty close to the whitepaper measurements, they are laid back on-axis with smoothly declining off-axis measurements.
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They are very similar, both show them to be laid back on-axis with very good off-axis directivity.
Oh for sure. I completely agree.

I just wanted to point out that all the measurements are in basic agreement and that the whitepaper lines are quite smoothed (due to averaging) in comparison to the NRC and the other independent graphs which are individual traces.

Kefs are excellent without a doubt, but I do think the others are firmly in the same league. It will come down to preferring the LW or not, with off-axis being a lower priority than listening window, bass, and cabinet.

With a sub, bass won't be of much concern. It's safe to say that all these have solid cabinets without major resonances. That leaves just the listening window and dispersion patterns, both of which can be subjective and room dependent (not all will agree on this point but that's ok.)

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The Ascend 170's are very neutral on-axis and not very neutral off-axis, many people describe them as forward or bright.
I would be one those people, haha. They also have virtually zero bass and have a slight upward response across the entire spectrum by a couple dB. This makes them sound lean, bright and forward to my ears. The off-axis pattern certainly doesn't help the situation.

They are very smooth and sensitive though, so I still recommend them with a sub and for home theater. They would also be great near-field monitors (my Genelecs and Neumanns, for instance, have a similar on-axis response but are better behaved off-axis.) I'd call them bright as well but more pleasing to the ear (better drivers, cabs, crossovers, etc.) They work better near-field too since they sound a little bright from the sofa much like the CBM-170's.

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I don't think a passive radiator produces any more extra bass than a port but I may be wrong.
You are correct.

Both ports and PR's operate on the exact same principle being simple resonators. PR's use both air and the passive woofer in tandem as the spring and thus have the potential for more unwanted resonances since it will have to move much more mass than air alone (all woofers have some unwanted resonances because they are moving masses.)

Ports use only air as a spring and when well designed, those unwanted resonances can be completely mitigated since the moving air has much less mass than a physical driver. This will make ported speakers sound "tighter" than the slower moving (higher mass) PR's. Ports are also much cheaper but take up more cabinet volume.

Side-firing radiators are a completely different story and are used for cardioid-like dispersion patterns (Kii Three, D&D 8C, etc.)
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post #70 of 223 Old 08-17-2019, 07:53 PM
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You are correct.

Both ports and PR's operate on the exact same principle being simple resonators. PR's use both air and the passive woofer in tandem as the spring and thus have the potential for more unwanted resonances since it will have to move much more mass than air alone (all woofers have some unwanted resonances because they are moving masses.)

Ports use only air as a spring and when well designed, those unwanted resonances can be completely mitigated since the moving air has much less mass than a physical driver. This will make ported speakers sound "tighter" than the slower moving (higher mass) PR's. Ports are also much cheaper but take up more cabinet volume.
In theory - there is someone on the forum currently testing both the S400 and the Sierra-2EX so we'll see what the verdict is.
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post #71 of 223 Old 08-17-2019, 08:09 PM
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Question for those deep in the hobby - when you were in my position and you went from a $500 speaker to $2000 or whatever, that initial feeling when you demo'd the amazing new speaker, does it last? Or does your brain just get used to the sound and then it sounds normal after awhile and you are on the prowl for something different/better. Kind of like "being with" a hot girl gets old after a few rounds? Is this a drug that you become numb to? Am i excited because these speakers i heard today are amazing, or is it just because of the anticipation of getting a new girlfriend who is hotter than what i have now, IE the "chase" ?? But once i attain it, will the interest wear off???

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post #72 of 223 Old 08-17-2019, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Buchardt S400 has better bass than KEF R3, and measures excellently, too:



Ascend Sierra-2EX also appears to have more bass than R3, based on reviews, and also has superb measurements.

Attachment 2603956

KEF's own measurements look amazing, but they might be overly smoothed; independent measurements I've seen differ from the official ones.

At any rate, these would make for a killer 3-way shootout, don't you think?
My measurements between the S2-EX and Kef R3 actually show the R3 with more bass extension, and it definitely sounds like a warmer speaker to me. The S-2EX has incredible extension for a 2-way, but it's still more of a "punchy" 2-way (with a lot of 60-80hz energy) than something that competes with a larger 3-way in bass extension.

S2-EX




KEF R3

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post #73 of 223 Old 08-17-2019, 10:40 PM
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Thanks for the measurements.

Both KEF and Ascend rate their speakers to 38 Hz, but of course that doesn't tell you about the contour. The Ascend looks like it is more tapered, whereas the KEF just drops to nothing suddenly.

Based on the above graphs, my experience with sub bass and equalization tells me that I would probably prefer the bass contour of the KEF R3 (if I did not use subs).

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post #74 of 223 Old 08-17-2019, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by l0nestar8 View Post
Horns, coaxes, and 3-ways allow for an even drop-off off-axis, horizontally. A 2-way cone and dome, will almost always have a dip off-axis, in all directions, around the crossover point. Some are more extreme in this regard than others.

A coax, whether 2-way or 3-way, will also allow for an even drop-off in the vertical direction (ideal point-source.) So coaxes do in fact have a unique advantage. Not all coaxes are perfect and some screw up driver integration like any other speaker, but they have that capability.

Kef is pretty much the gold standard in this regard, but I still attribute any forwardness to the basic listening window, and not off-axis responses. From my experience, you can look at a listening window graph of any speaker and get a feel for how it sounds. If it performs similar to that preferred listening window far off-axis, and in multiple directions, then even better.

That's just my opinion based on personal experience. Various rooms and seating arrangements might make any general off-axis considerations moot, anyway.
Isn't this 2-way off-axis drop usually caused by using a larger woofer? I almost never see these dropoffs (other than on vertical axis) when a 1" tweeter is mated to say a 4.5" or 5" woofer.
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post #75 of 223 Old 08-17-2019, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post
That would be a shootout I'd love to see as well. Be careful when comparing different measurements in the bass, it's pretty hard to measure and many people have talked about the deficiencies even at the NRC anechoic chamber, so smaller companies like Burchardt and Ascend I'm sure aren't using anechoic chambers. The only real way to compare bass would be to do subwoofer style measurements to get the max output at a certain distortion level, I think 10% is the norm. Regardless of how much bass a speaker has, subwoofers are mandatory if you want the best possible bass in your room anyway, just due to setup restrictions of the mains.

The Sierra 2 EX are actually smoothed to 1/12 octave(You can see in the legend it says .08 octave), while the other 2 look more like 1/20, you can tell by the little ripples in the measurements that are absent in the Sierra 2. The S400 and the Sierra 2 EX do measure pretty well for sure but I don't think anyone would say they are at the level of the R3.

I think some of the R3 vs S400 hype is from Zeo's youtube channel. He vaguely said the R3 is much better nearfield than the S400, but the S400 was amazeballs when listened to farther out without giving details. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess Zeos liked the S400 because of the 2KHz drop in power response. A lot of headphone manufacturers intentionally add a 2K dip to give a greater sense of spaciousness, and I know Zeos is a big headphone nut so that's my 2 cents on that hype.
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post #76 of 223 Old 08-17-2019, 11:43 PM
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Isn't this 2-way off-axis drop usually caused by using a larger woofer? I almost never see these dropoffs (other than on vertical axis) when a 1" tweeter is mated to say a 4.5" or 5" woofer.
A larger woofer certainly exacerbates the issue. Any driver around 5 inches or less, with a low enough crossover, should be able to avoid any major issue, even without a waveguide. Once you get over 7 inches, you will need a horn to control directivity properly (along with the narrower dispersion and colorations inherent to horns.)

Of course, there's the other issue that some people actually prefer a dip around common crossover points, especially if they are sensitive to the 2-3Hz range (not coincidentally the spot where human hearing is MOST sensitive.)

A 3-way can use 4 inch mid-drivers and a larger bass driver, which completely avoids the entire issue (horizontally of course.) The 3-way coax is almost a no compromise design (IMD issues aside), depending on how much you feel vertical and horizontal dispersion should match (some argue a dip in the vertical response helps to curb unwanted floor and ceiling bounce.) No free lunches in audio, sadly.

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A larger woofer certainly exacerbates the issue. Any driver around 5 inches or less, with a low enough crossover, should be able to avoid any major issue, even without a waveguide. Once you get over 7 inches, you will need a horn to control directivity properly (along with the narrower dispersion and colorations inherent to horns.)

Of course, there's the other issue that some people actually prefer a dip around common crossover points, especially if they are sensitive to the 2-3Hz range (not coincidentally the spot where human hearing is MOST sensitive.)

A 3-way can use 4 inch mid-drivers and a larger bass driver, which completely avoids the entire issue (horizontally of course.) The 3-way coax is almost a no compromise design (IMD issues aside), depending on how much you feel vertical and horizontal dispersion should match (some argue a dip in the vertical response helps to curb unwanted floor and ceiling bounce.) No free lunches in audio, sadly.

I guess that explains why the Joesph Audio Pulsar is so popular. 5" driver and a 1700hz crossover point alleviates any need for a waveguide.
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I just got the Evoke 20. I upgraded from the Emit 10. Whether or not the Dynaudio Emit 10 is better than the Elac UB5 i am not sure, but the Evoke 20’️s are a huge improvement over the emits... I mean huge in build quality and even bigger of a difference in sound quality.

I also had a pair of Emit 20’️s and id say the difference is just as substantial (the Emit 10s are godly for their price point and their physical size).

My vote for your next set of speakers is for the Evoke 10’️s or Evoke 20’️s.

If it means anything, I too felt something very similar to how you’️re feeling. I felt the same way about the special 40’️s. The $3000 price point was just too much for me to swing for that speaker. If I say yes to the special 40 then I’️d actually skip that speaker and go with the confidence 20’️s. I’️m a do it all or don’️t do it at all type of guy, and the Evoke 10/20’️s (the 20’️s are pushing it, but I couldn’️t resist a 7” woofer) are right at my limit of when I will just do it all and yolo it.
So instead I satisfied my upgrade bug, personally feel like I gained a huge boost in sound quality, refinement, and most importantly the improvements in quality of the listening experience.
Do I think that there are still huge gains to be had, with equally huge price tags attached to those gains? Yes, most definitely. But do I in any way feel like I am settling and essentially lying to myself because I am too poor to afford what I truly wanted? Not at all. This is what I truly wanted for this occasion and period of time in my life. Assuming I am still alive in a decade or two, that’️s when I’️ll be content with buying items with huge price tags; likewise I will be even more genuinely content with the improvements on multiple levels that will come with.
Thank you for letting me express this relating factor of my own personal self with your current situation. Whatever speakers you do end up purchasing and settling with, please PM me your result, as I will be curious as will I be forgetful, so please remind me 🙂 cheers.

-jj

Interesting analysis...good points! What im wondering though is, The special is 3k, the confidence i believe is 12k!!! So that is kind of an insane gap between the two, no?
Yes very good point and i am sure it generally applies to most people but to me I see it as anything more than $1000-1500 for a pair of bookshelf speakers is pushing it... so the Evoke 20 was a stretch for me. I personally feel after the $1000-1500 mark, assuming you have discipline and bankroll down, then $12000 confidence’s should be no problem, should one value home audio/personal listening and truly take it to the top tiers/upper echelons of this money sucking hobby lol

Do it all or don't do it at all.
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post #79 of 223 Old 08-18-2019, 05:03 AM
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Hey Del Boca Vista I'd like to add another name for consideration. I've read a lot about this brand and would love to hear them someday. Supposedly very accurate and image beautifully.

Amphion Argon3S

https://amphion.fi/enjoy/products-ho...f-loudspeaker/
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post #80 of 223 Old 08-18-2019, 05:22 AM
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I guess that explains why the Joesph Audio Pulsar is so popular. 5" driver and a 1700hz crossover point alleviates any need for a waveguide.
It would still benefit.

Since you mentioned it, Zero Fidelity says he prefers the S400 to the Pulsar!
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post #81 of 223 Old 08-18-2019, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by overg View Post
Given your desire for a speaker that sounds great at moderate volumes, I'll add a vote that you consider the Salk BMR's. I got one of the last pairs Dennis Murphy sold through Philharmonic, and the were an insane steal at the price he was offering them. The Salk prices are more in line with reality, and given your budget, you could get an incredibly beautiful Salk custom cabinet. If looks have any relevance to you, definitely something to consider. Basically, if you can imagine a color and veneer, Salk can probably handle it.
But getting back to my original point, one of the things I love about the BMR's is how crystal clear and open they sound even at lower volumes. I share my house with a wife and 11 year old daughter who don't particularly love my taste in music. So if they're home, I'm listening at pretty moderate volume levels. And the BMR's still sound utterly fantastic, even when I'm trying to keep my listening levels confined to the room I'm in.
+1 on Jim Salk as a true master. His speakers are works of art that work

Jim uses super high quality components. I chased down the speaker rabbit hole for 25 years.
Finally, I had Jim build a matched set of MTMs for the LCR front soundstage in our HT. That was 12 years ago. Since then, almost every other piece of HT gear has been through multiple upgrade cycles. However, the Salks are still anchoring the sound. Salksounds is the cure for "upgradeitis".
Yes, they are expensive. Quality often is. If you are into it enough to hang out here at AVS, then do your self a favor and check them out.
Jim Salk-there is no substitue
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post #82 of 223 Old 08-18-2019, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Jakeshields View Post
I think some of the R3 vs S400 hype is from Zeo's youtube channel. He vaguely said the R3 is much better nearfield than the S400, but the S400 was amazeballs when listened to farther out without giving details. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess Zeos liked the S400 because of the 2KHz drop in power response. A lot of headphone manufacturers intentionally add a 2K dip to give a greater sense of spaciousness, and I know Zeos is a big headphone nut so that's my 2 cents on that hype.
It's possible, though some people much more knowledgeable than me suggested it should be barely audible because the direct sound dominates our hearing and the listening window is flat. Conversation involved Toole and others in the spinorama thread.
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post #83 of 223 Old 08-18-2019, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by humbland View Post
+1 on Jim Salk as a true master. His speakers are works of art that work

Jim uses super high quality components. I chased down the speaker rabbit hole for 25 years.
Finally, I had Jim build a matched set of MTMs for the LCR front soundstage in our HT. That was 12 years ago. Since then, almost every other piece of HT gear has been through multiple upgrade cycles. However, the Salks are still anchoring the sound. Salksounds is the cure for "upgradeitis".
Yes, they are expensive. Quality often is. If you are into it enough to hang out here at AVS, then do your self a favor and check them out.
Jim Salk-there is no substitue
i don't doubt anything you say :i do however have issue with implying Salk is "the best".. a case of rationalizing imo... other speakers at other prices are just as much the "cure for upgradeitis" as anything any one person could point out , i think that's the consensus among the regulars on the speaker forum anyway ..and it's certainly self evident to anyone who frequents the forum..

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #84 of 223 Old 08-18-2019, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Jakeshields View Post
My measurements between the S2-EX and Kef R3 actually show the R3 with more bass extension, and it definitely sounds like a warmer speaker to me. The S-2EX has incredible extension for a 2-way, but it's still more of a "punchy" 2-way (with a lot of 60-80hz energy) than something that competes with a larger 3-way in bass extension.
I'm curious since you have Dirac live, how do the R3 sound with correction? I think they are too laid back myself but they seem like the perfect speaker to shape any way you like with EQ given their balanced response on and off-axis.
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post #85 of 223 Old 08-18-2019, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Del Boca Vista View Post
I am shortlisting dynaudio special 40, b&w 705s2, buchardt s400, kef ls50/r3. Welcome thoughts on those or any others that I need to know about? I live in an apartment so big bass response is not a priority. Listen to bossa nova, blues, vocal, acoustic rock, some jazz..I have Elac ub5s right now which for $500 are incredible - I would guess they are definitely on the warm side as highs seem fairly recessed, definitely non fatiguing. I would prefer to avoid models that you need to really turn up to enjoy (i like moderate most of the time but turn it up for a song or two). Could go for more detail/forward presentation than the UB5s but don't want to jump all the way to the ultra forward/clinical end of the spectrum, just turn it up a nice notch from the elacs. Also dont NEED to spend 3k, if a 2k speaker is a big improvement over the elacs then that might be the way to go, but willing to go up to 3, hear only great things about the dynaudios haha...Appreciate any suggestions!
Its only appropriate that you check out the ELAC Adante series if you have not done so. They are on sale right now. for 40% off!

https://www.musicdirect.com/Search?c...oducts&c2=grid

https://www.audioadvice.com/elac-as-...er+color-Black




or there's the Vela BS 403 at $2499.98

https://www.musicdirect.com/speakers...shelf-Speakers




HDTV - Sharp AQUOS LC-70LE600U 70" | AVR- Anthem MRX 300 | Media Player - Fire TV Box 2nd Gen | Blu-Ray/Media/Gaming - PS3-320GB / Xbox One
Speakers - Main - Boston Acoustics Lynnfield VR965 | Center - Boston Acoustics Lynnfield VR920 | Rear - Artison Portrait LRS
| Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - O Audio BASH 500

Last edited by WLDock; 08-18-2019 at 10:57 AM.
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post #86 of 223 Old 08-18-2019, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Its only appropriate that you check out the ELAC Adante series if you have not done so. They are on sale right now. for 40% off!
Thats insane! i wonder why? just a short term sale or clearout for new model?? For some reason crutchfield has not listed them on sale
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post #87 of 223 Old 08-18-2019, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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I did something really really dumb today and listened to 702 s2 towers right after hearing bookshelfs. Brutal...
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post #88 of 223 Old 08-18-2019, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Del Boca Vista View Post
I did something really really dumb today and listened to 702 s2 towers right after hearing bookshelfs. Brutal...



It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.
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post #89 of 223 Old 08-18-2019, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Del Boca Vista View Post
Thats insane! i wonder why? just a short term sale or clearout for new model?? For some reason crutchfield has not listed them on sale
I'm sure Crutchfield would price match and there return policy is fantastic.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #90 of 223 Old 08-18-2019, 01:36 PM
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Best Bookshelf under 3k?

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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
In theory - there is someone on the forum currently testing both the S400 and the Sierra-2EX so we'll see what the verdict is.

The S2-EX and S400 both put out incredible bass for their size, but after a couple of weeks with them I do think I prefer the S400 down low over the S2-EX. To this regular guy’s ears they sound a little weightier, meatier, bigger, etc. Don’t want to take anything away from the S2-EX though...they still do bass better than any other non-S400 small speaker I’ve ever heard.

I am curious about the R3 and may buy a pair if accessories4less gets any b-stock. I hadn’t really considered any KEF speakers since I disliked the LS50. The R3s are a fair amount bigger than the S400, though, so not sure where I’d put them...I consider the S400s diminutive size perfect for the living room space they are in.



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Stereo: Buchardt S400, Van Alstine Vision SET 400 & Transcendence 10RB, Schiit Bifrost.
Home Theater: Ascend Sierra 2 EX for LRC, Sierra Luna’s for rear, HTM-200s for front and top Atmos. Dual PSA 15S subs. Denon X6400 with Parasound HCA-1500A driving mains.
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