In-Walls or On-Walls for LCR? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 67 Old 08-21-2019, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
I personally just went with in walls for my surrounds using open back speakers.
This actually makes perfect sense, because of the tiny % of the HT output that surrounds do compared to the front 3.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #32 of 67 Old 08-22-2019, 05:40 AM
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I went with Revel as I really appreciate their design philosophy of designing speakers that measure in such a way that correlates very strongly with sound quality. They have detailed Spinorama measurements available for all of their in wall options.

I have not seen the spins for Revel In-Walls. Where are they available? Thanks.



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post #33 of 67 Old 08-22-2019, 06:53 AM
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I have not seen the spins for Revel In-Walls. Where are they available? Thanks.



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Was linked in the science thread. Saw it mentioned that they are on Revels Facebook page.


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post #34 of 67 Old 08-22-2019, 06:58 AM
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Was linked in the science thread. Saw it mentioned that they are on Revels Facebook page.


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I guess that's why I haven't seen them. I do don't Facebook.
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post #35 of 67 Old 08-22-2019, 11:11 AM
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I guess that's why I haven't seen them. I do don't Facebook.
Glad to see I'm not the only one!
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post #36 of 67 Old 08-22-2019, 03:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Mr. Higgins is that vent fed from under the floor or inside the wall?

The return air vent goes down to the basement so it would not interfere. However, the cavity on the left side of the wall did not have full depth. (another stud in cavity), and the cavity on the right side of the wall was not full width so that is why I was worried with in-walls. The studs cavities further in might interfere based on the size of the tv. For this reason I prefer on-walls unless it would be substantially lowering my sound quality compared to in-walls when using LCR speakers at around $400-$600 per speaker.
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post #37 of 67 Old 08-22-2019, 03:53 PM
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I have not seen the spins for Revel In-Walls. Where are they available? Thanks.



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https://speakerdata2034.blogspot.com...rama-data.html
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post #38 of 67 Old 08-22-2019, 04:01 PM
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The return air vent goes down to the basement so it would not interfere. However, the cavity on the left side of the wall did not have full depth. (another stud in cavity), and the cavity on the right side of the wall was not full width so that is why I was worried with in-walls. The studs cavities further in might interfere based on the size of the tv. For this reason I prefer on-walls unless it would be substantially lowering my sound quality compared to in-walls when using LCR speakers at around $400-$600 per speaker.
Man, I don't know. I still think in walls are going to be a better option...a little variance in low frequency can be fixed with room correction....but extreme lack of capability below 200 Hz due to paper thin enclosures with on walls can't be fixed. And again, for me personally, the aesthetics of in walls for a bedroom would be preferable to on walls with very compromised sonic performance. I could be wrong. Then again, you could always roll with in walls with full enclosures such as those by Triad or JBL's line. This would make the cavity a moot point altogether. I got some prices on Triad and they would definitely be in budget for you, but not sure about JBL's offerings. Maybe check with a dealer here like @rexanderson (for the JBL, not sure if he handles Triad). I got a pretty good deal on some Revel in walls going through him although they are open back, hence my suggestion for Triad or JBL.

I corresponded some with Dawn(Triad dealer) who posted earlier in this thread and had a good experience with her, although I decided to go another route. My budget for surrounds was very low.

If you consider Revel(which, luckily, you don't have to demo in person as they have detailed measurements available), I think your budget will allow for some of their higher tier options. The W893 looks like it would be a *fantastic* speaker for LCR based on the Spinorama.
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post #39 of 67 Old 08-22-2019, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Thanks. Interesting that quite a few of them have the 2K dip. Not sure if that's a crossover issue or if it's baked into the design. I thought Sean Olive didn't like the 2K dip?

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post #40 of 67 Old 08-22-2019, 04:26 PM
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Thanks. Interesting that quite a few of them have the 2K dip. Not sure if that's a crossover issue or if it's baked into the design. I thought Sean Olive didn't like the 2K dip?
Dunno, I'm not thrilled with the looks of the spin for the W263's I got, but honestly, the solid extension to 60 Hz from a completely unobtrusive, almost unnoticeable surround speaker in my living room probably outweighs the flaws above 9KHz. And for the price, and the fact that they are just surrounds, I'm actually very happy with them. One unexpected benefit is that low level music listening is much better in multi channel surround than in stereo as the sound carries through my first floor much better at low level.

I got pretty lucky that the factory color grilles are almost a perfect match for my walls. . My other option was a set of teacup sized JBL satellites that would have performed drastically worse and would have been more obtrusive.
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post #41 of 67 Old 08-22-2019, 04:37 PM
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The return air vent goes down to the basement so it would not interfere. However, the cavity on the left side of the wall did not have full depth. (another stud in cavity), and the cavity on the right side of the wall was not full width so that is why I was worried with in-walls. The studs cavities further in might interfere based on the size of the tv. For this reason I prefer on-walls unless it would be substantially lowering my sound quality compared to in-walls when using LCR speakers at around $400-$600 per speaker.
Certainly the physical constraints of the studs are an issue with in-walls. If the studs you show are what's behind the wall you show, they could definitely be a problem. Triad can make "custom sized" speakers, so you might contact them and ask what they could do. Contact @Dawn Gordon and ask her. Otherwise, on-walls will probably serve you better. Triad makes some of those as well with the baffle step compensation baked into the crossover:

https://www.triadspeakers.com/produc...ow-bronze-lcr/
That one is spec'd (optimistically) to 80 Hz, so it could work as long as you don't need full-on Reference Level. MSRP is ~$900, but it can be found for less.

Of course, there are other on-wall manufacturers as well so look around.

Craig
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post #42 of 67 Old 08-22-2019, 05:57 PM - Thread Starter
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How would you rate the Triad Bronze On-Wall Speakers vs the Def Tech Mythos 9 or Mythos 10? I had looked at doing a Mythos 10 Center and Mythos 9 left and right.



https://www.crutchfield.com/p_735MYT....html?skipvs=T
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post #43 of 67 Old 08-22-2019, 05:59 PM
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How would you rate the Triad Bronze On-Wall Speakers vs the Def Tech Mythos 9 or Mythos 10? I had looked at doing a Mythos 10 Center and Mythos 9 left and right.



https://www.crutchfield.com/p_735MYT....html?skipvs=T
Sorry, I have no experience with Def Tech speakers of any kind. I can't help with that.

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post #44 of 67 Old 08-23-2019, 06:10 AM
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How would you rate the Triad Bronze On-Wall Speakers vs the Def Tech Mythos 9 or Mythos 10? I had looked at doing a Mythos 10 Center and Mythos 9 left and right.



https://www.crutchfield.com/p_735MYT....html?skipvs=T
Of course I'm biased, however, the comparison between a mass market brand (Definitive) and a hand-built brand (Triad) is quite audible. Keep in mind that all Triad LCRs are designed to be used with a Subwoofer.

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post #45 of 67 Old 08-23-2019, 07:01 AM
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Def Tech is not hand assembled?

So mass marketed automobiles are not built well?

There are tons of on walls. Klipsch, KEF, Golden Ear, RBH, Monitor Audio, Paradigm and wait for it hand built Triad...

“Biased” might be an understatement.

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post #46 of 67 Old 08-23-2019, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by higgins02 View Post
How would you rate the Triad Bronze On-Wall Speakers vs the Def Tech Mythos 9 or Mythos 10? I had looked at doing a Mythos 10 Center and Mythos 9 left and right.



https://www.crutchfield.com/p_735MYT....html?skipvs=T
Of course I'm biased, however, the comparison between a mass market brand (Definitive) and a hand-built brand (Triad) is quite audible. Keep in mind that all Triad LCRs are designed to be used with a Subwoofer.
Dawn, as I Triad dealer I would have assumed you know that in the majority of their models Triad uses mass market drivers commonly used across the industry. Perhaps a tweak or two, but that really is superficial. The only thing unique is that they cut the MDF boards to make the enclosure once an order is placed.

That is the complete opposite of a company like Phase Technology, who manufactures (and OEMs in-walls for their components for other companies, like McIntosh), almost literally, every component in their loudspeakers, including the cabinet, in their factories in The USA. Phase Tech has many patents on driver and cabinet technologies as a result. Not sure how many patents or major contributions towards the progression of loudspeaker technology Triad has, but, I would guess little to none since, as a dealer, they've never touted any to us in marketing info (that I can recall).

Zorba's ranting and vitriol at dealers is totally misplaced towards me, however statements like the above post are certainly cause for some angst.

As a company, Triad physically manufactures little % of the components in their line of product. They assemble, sure, but this doesn't apply some sort of magical pixy dust that makes the speakers sound better as a result.

Last edited by PrestigeAudio; 08-23-2019 at 07:35 AM.
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post #47 of 67 Old 08-23-2019, 07:30 AM
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How would you rate the Triad Bronze On-Wall Speakers vs the Def Tech Mythos 9 or Mythos 10? I had looked at doing a Mythos 10 Center and Mythos 9 left and right.



https://www.crutchfield.com/p_735MYT....html?skipvs=T
I'm a dealer of and have used both. The Def Tech are the superior product in this case, no question... IMO.
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post #48 of 67 Old 08-23-2019, 07:47 AM
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Dawn, as I Triad dealer I would have assumed you know that in the majority of their models Triad uses mass market drivers commonly used across the industry. Perhaps a tweak or two, but that really is superficial. The only thing unique is that they cut the MDF boards to make the enclosure once an order is placed.

That is the complete opposite of a company like Phase Technology, who manufactures (and OEMs in-walls for their components for other companies, like McIntosh), almost literally, every component in their loudspeakers, including the cabinet, in their factories in The USA. Phase Tech has many patents on driver and cabinet technologies as a result. Not sure how many patents or major contributions towards the progression of loudspeaker technology Triad has, but, I would guess little to none since, as a dealer, they've never touted any to us in marketing info (that I can recall).

Zorba's ranting and vitriol at dealers is totally misplaced towards me, however statements like the above post are certainly cause for some angst.

As a company, Triad physically manufactures little % of the components in their line of product. They assemble, sure, but this doesn't apply some sort of magical pixy dust that makes the speakers sound better as a result.
Incorrect. The drivers are not "off the shelf" but rather specifically made to Triad's specifications. What's the name of your dealership and where are you located?

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post #49 of 67 Old 08-23-2019, 07:59 AM
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I'm a dealer of and have used both. The Def Tech are the superior product in this case, no question... IMO.
You're a Triad dealer? Really? Does Triad know how your "represent" them?

Lombardi said it:
"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
My System (Edited Feb. 2020 to add 4K and Atmos updates)
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post #50 of 67 Old 08-23-2019, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by PrestigeAudio View Post
Dawn, as I Triad dealer I would have assumed you know that in the majority of their models Triad uses mass market drivers commonly used across the industry. Perhaps a tweak or two, but that really is superficial. The only thing unique is that they cut the MDF boards to make the enclosure once an order is placed.

That is the complete opposite of a company like Phase Technology, who manufactures (and OEMs in-walls for their components for other companies, like McIntosh), almost literally, every component in their loudspeakers, including the cabinet, in their factories in The USA. Phase Tech has many patents on driver and cabinet technologies as a result. Not sure how many patents or major contributions towards the progression of loudspeaker technology Triad has, but, I would guess little to none since, as a dealer, they've never touted any to us in marketing info (that I can recall).

Zorba's ranting and vitriol at dealers is totally misplaced towards me, however statements like the above post are certainly cause for some angst.

As a company, Triad physically manufactures little % of the components in their line of product. They assemble, sure, but this doesn't apply some sort of magical pixy dust that makes the speakers sound better as a result.
Incorrect. The drivers are not "off the shelf" but rather specifically made to Triad's specifications. What's the name of your dealership and where are you located?
Dawn, they use scan speak tweeters and source the woofers as well. Lots of companies do that or claim to have "custom" drivers. They have product managers sourcing drivers from over seas for their in ceiling distributed audio line as well. They're also not manufacturing their crossovers form scratch, either. Claimed changes to these drivers are (mostly) superficial. They have serial numbers stamped into the back of each driver so they can track online sales if people alter the serial number of the actual speaker itself. This change could also be called "custom", but does not benefit sound quality.

^ If there are changes from this they would be quite recent to my knowledge.

Feel free to correct me and tell me which drivers they manufacture, patents they have from their engineering team, etc. I am 100% open to learning.

I post on here for enthusiasts and the anonymity allows me to be honest without fear of repercussion.
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post #51 of 67 Old 08-23-2019, 10:16 AM
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I'm a dealer of and have used both. The Def Tech are the superior product in this case, no question... IMO.
You're a Triad dealer? Really? Does Triad know how your "represent" them?
We've gone round and round on here on this topic before, Craig.

I am not on here to represent nor am I trying to represent Triad or any other speaker line.

Would you prefer I represent them and BS people?

Tell you what, sir... you feel free to go ahead and clue me in on where I was incorrect instead of try to shoot or silence the messenger who has news you don't like to hear.

Some of what Triad makes is excellent. Other pieces are not of a real high value proposition compared to other things on the market.

Just because Chevy can make the 2020 Corvette supercar doesn't mean the Traxx or Cobalt are made the same way or with the same engineering. Same with Triad and a lot of lones. To believe so would be naive.
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post #52 of 67 Old 08-23-2019, 10:28 AM
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Dawn, they use scan speak tweeters and source the woofers as well. Lots of companies do that or claim to have "custom" drivers. They have product managers sourcing drivers from over seas for their in ceiling distributed audio line as well. They're also not manufacturing their crossovers form scratch, either. Claimed changes to these drivers are (mostly) superficial. They have serial numbers stamped into the back of each driver so they can track online sales if people alter the serial number of the actual speaker itself. This change could also be called "custom", but does not benefit sound quality.

^ If there are changes from this they would be quite recent to my knowledge.

Feel free to correct me and tell me which drivers they manufacture, patents they have from their engineering team, etc. I am 100% open to learning.

I post on here for enthusiasts and the anonymity allows me to be honest without fear of repercussion.
Again, incorrect. For example, the Bronze and Silver LCRs do not use Scan Speak products. Also, I believe that Triad officially corrected your mis-information the last time you brought this up.

Anonymity is especially convenient, given the fact that it allows you to make claims that you are a dealer of various brands without having to back it up. How do we know for a fact that you are a dealer of *anything?* Come into the sunlight and let us see the "real you."

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post #53 of 67 Old 08-23-2019, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by PrestigeAudio View Post
We've gone round and round on here on this topic before, Craig.

I am not on here to represent nor am I trying to represent Triad or any other speaker line.

Would you prefer I represent them and BS people?

Tell you what, sir... you feel free to go ahead and clue me in on where I was incorrect instead of try to shoot or silence the messenger who has news you don't like to hear.

Some of what Triad makes is excellent. Other pieces are not of a real high value proposition compared to other things on the market.

Just because Chevy can make the 2020 Corvette supercar doesn't mean the Traxx or Cobalt are made the same way or with the same engineering. Same with Triad and a lot of lones. To believe so would be naive.
This you?



Lombardi said it:
"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
My System (Edited Feb. 2020 to add 4K and Atmos updates)
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post #54 of 67 Old 08-23-2019, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrestigeAudio View Post
We've gone round and round on here on this topic before, Craig.

I am not on here to represent nor am I trying to represent Triad or any other speaker line.

Would you prefer I represent them and BS people?

Tell you what, sir... you feel free to go ahead and clue me in on where I was incorrect instead of try to shoot or silence the messenger who has news you don't like to hear.

Some of what Triad makes is excellent. Other pieces are not of a real high value proposition compared to other things on the market.

Just because Chevy can make the 2020 Corvette supercar doesn't mean the Traxx or Cobalt are made the same way or with the same engineering. Same with Triad and a lot of lones. To believe so would be naive.
This you?


Lol... No.

Prestige Audio is not even my company's name. I am not on here to find or get business. I have plenty of that.

The BS in my industry gets to me and, as such, find this to be a decent outlet to keep me sane. I was an enthusiast once and still enjoy the hobbyist side of the industry.

Plus, I learn a lot from you guys as well.
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post #55 of 67 Old 08-26-2019, 06:10 AM
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How would you rate the Triad Bronze On-Wall Speakers vs the Def Tech Mythos 9 or Mythos 10? I had looked at doing a Mythos 10 Center and Mythos 9 left and right.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_735MYT....html?skipvs=T
Mythos is good stuff! Heck, I've been looking at used Mythos ST towers, Ten for a Center, and Gem XL or Nine, Eight for surround for my main room!!! The Mythos would be killer for a bedroomI I don't want to diminish the value of good sound in a bedroom but, I think the flat stuff would be more than enough. Accessories4Less has great prices on the refurb stuff. These thing are made with aluminum enclosures.

Mythos XTR-50 Ultra slim (Refurb) - $229 each
https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ck-each/1.html

Mythos XTR-40 Ultra slim (New) - $249.99 each
https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ck-each/1.html

Mythos Gem XL (Refurb) - $149.99 each
https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ck-each/1.html

Grab five of these for about $1000 and mate it with a sub and your done. Would make for a fabulous bedroom system and meet the goals of no cutting, flat, great sound, great looks, low price to performance.

Review:https://hometheaterreview.com/defini...kers-reviewed/




HDTV - Sharp AQUOS LC-70LE600U 70" | AVR- Anthem MRX 300 | Media Player - Fire TV Box 2nd Gen | Blu-Ray/Media/Gaming - PS3-320GB / Xbox One
Speakers - Main - Boston Acoustics Lynnfield VR965 | Center - Boston Acoustics Lynnfield VR920 | Rear - Artison Portrait LRS
| Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - O Audio BASH 500

Last edited by WLDock; 08-26-2019 at 06:30 AM.
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post #56 of 67 Old 08-26-2019, 09:01 AM
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I'm also looking for some slim on-walls for a small-midsize room. 2300 cubic foot basement. Looking to spend under $1k for a 5.1 (fronts, surrounds, sub). It looks like it's pretty difficult when looking for slimmer speakers. At least for the fronts this is what I've found so far, as they come in around $1k CAD for 3 channels. Would they be sufficient? I'd still have to find a sub and surrounds separately.

Axiom M2 On-Wall Speaker
GoldenEar SuperSat 3 Speaker
CANTON GLE 417.2
Definitive Technology XTR-40
KEF T101
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post #57 of 67 Old 08-26-2019, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
Mythos is good stuff! Heck, I've been looking at used Mythos ST towers, Ten for a Center, and Gem XL or Nine, Eight for surround for my main room!!! The Mythos would be killer for a bedroomI I don't want to diminish the value of good sound in a bedroom but, I think the flat stuff would be more than enough. Accessories4Less has great prices on the refurb stuff. These thing are made with aluminum enclosures.

Mythos XTR-50 Ultra slim (Refurb) - $229 each
https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ck-each/1.html

Mythos XTR-40 Ultra slim (New) - $249.99 each
https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ck-each/1.html

Mythos Gem XL (Refurb) - $149.99 each
https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ck-each/1.html

Grab five of these for about $1000 and mate it with a sub and your done. Would make for a fabulous bedroom system and meet the goals of no cutting, flat, great sound, great looks, low price to performance.

Review:https://hometheaterreview.com/defini...kers-reviewed/



https://youtu.be/Y5SoRJyy7as
Sub the Gem for the Gem XL, it's a far better, more linear, speaker.
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post #58 of 67 Old 08-26-2019, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
Sub the Gem for the Gem XL, it's a far better, more linear, speaker.
For sure, that's what I've heard and was my recommendation as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
Mythos XTR-50 Ultra slim (Refurb) - $229 each
https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ck-each/1.html

Mythos XTR-40 Ultra slim (New) - $249.99 each
https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ck-each/1.html

Mythos Gem XL (Refurb) - $149.99 each
https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ck-each/1.html

HDTV - Sharp AQUOS LC-70LE600U 70" | AVR- Anthem MRX 300 | Media Player - Fire TV Box 2nd Gen | Blu-Ray/Media/Gaming - PS3-320GB / Xbox One
Speakers - Main - Boston Acoustics Lynnfield VR965 | Center - Boston Acoustics Lynnfield VR920 | Rear - Artison Portrait LRS
| Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - O Audio BASH 500

Last edited by WLDock; 08-26-2019 at 01:16 PM.
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post #59 of 67 Old 08-26-2019, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by PrestigeAudio View Post
You have, literally NO experience, NOR any idea of what you're speaking of. See notes below, addressing your "points" in order....

. Your blanket statement comes from ignorance and inexperience, yet you feel qualified to speak about it. I do this for a living..... you read about it. Perhaps next, go watch Top Gun and then find an aviation forum to tell pilots how to fly.

- Your 4th paragraph is a nonsensical, insane rant with more make believe BS. Not sure what 3rd world war-zone you live in where the big bad salesmen have ravaged and pillaged your lands but, MOVE, dude. It's a big world out there and there are outstanding professionals out there who enjoy helping people. You're clearly butt-hurt over some experience you had with salesmen somewhere in your timeline. You're just inventing scenarios to fit your personal narrative. What on Earth are you taking about?
BAHAHAHAHA!!! Thank you for entertaining me sir.
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Projector:Epson 6050ub Screen:Elite screens manual SRM Pro series 120" TV: Vizio P75f Pre/Pro:Marantz AV7705 Amplifier:Monolith 7x and Emotiva A-700 for ATMOSSpeakers:Klipsch THX8000-L (LCR) R5800 side surrounds, 5650-S rear surrounds Klipsch 5800-C for ATMOSSubwoofers:PSA v1811x2 Bluray Player:Panasonic ub820 Media Streamer:Fire TV cube
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post #60 of 67 Old 08-26-2019, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by WLDock View Post

Martin Logan Motion SLM (1-7/8" deep) :https://www.martinlogan.com/en/product/motion-slm




[/url]
I have Klipsch 5800 in walls and Klipsch THX 8000 in walls in my home theater and I love them. I also have Martin Logan SLM XL's in a 2 channel set up for the bedroom on a Sonos amplifier. I can attest that they sound great. I run them with a Paradigm DSP 3200 sub and it's great for a bedroom non surround sound situation. The ribbon tweeters so clear. I would recommend Martin Logan for sure.

FYI... I Paid:
KLipsch 5800's = $200 each
Klipsch THX-8000's = $700 each
Martin Logan SLM XL = $500 each
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Projector:Epson 6050ub Screen:Elite screens manual SRM Pro series 120" TV: Vizio P75f Pre/Pro:Marantz AV7705 Amplifier:Monolith 7x and Emotiva A-700 for ATMOSSpeakers:Klipsch THX8000-L (LCR) R5800 side surrounds, 5650-S rear surrounds Klipsch 5800-C for ATMOSSubwoofers:PSA v1811x2 Bluray Player:Panasonic ub820 Media Streamer:Fire TV cube
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