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post #1 of 31 Old 08-26-2019, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Surround back speakers with limited space

I currently have a 5.1 setup and was looking at adding two surround back speakers to move up to 7.1. However, I only have about 8 inches between the wall and the back of my couch. Even if I went with in-wall speakers, is it really worth it considering how close the speakers would have to be? I can't move the couch.
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post #2 of 31 Old 08-26-2019, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Manderin View Post
I currently have a 5.1 setup and was looking at adding two surround back speakers to move up to 7.1. However, I only have about 8 inches between the wall and the back of my couch. Even if I went with in-wall speakers, is it really worth it considering how close the speakers would have to be? I can't move the couch.
Where are your surround sides located?

Geoff A. J., California
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post #3 of 31 Old 08-26-2019, 02:23 PM
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Better to stick with a good 5.1 set-up rather than shoe horn a poor 7.1 layout where it doesn't fit.

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post #4 of 31 Old 08-26-2019, 02:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Where are your surround sides located?
On either side of the couch, facing the couch. They are towers - same model as I'm using for my fronts.

speaker -> |end table| couch |end table| <- speaker
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post #5 of 31 Old 08-26-2019, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Manderin View Post
On either side of the couch, facing the couch. They are towers - same model as I'm using for my fronts.

speaker -> |end table| couch |end table| <- speaker
I have 5.1 with the couch up against the wall so you could place another set in that location.

Above end tables about 4 feet on shelves aimed downwards towards center of room.

Not ideal but it works and it might work for you.

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post #6 of 31 Old 08-26-2019, 11:28 PM
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in a similar position. Don't have a large room, and reclining chairs will need to go against back wall. Was thinking of using the SVS Ultras for the home theater setup, including the elevation speakers for height. SVS ultra surrounds can be wired in "DUET" mode allowing for the 2 speakers in each cabinet to work independently. i have attached a pic of the room layout i plan on setting up, any feedback will be greatly received.
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post #7 of 31 Old 08-27-2019, 06:05 AM
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What is your budget?

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post #8 of 31 Old 08-27-2019, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Dawn Gordon View Post
What is your budget?
Hi Dawn, not sure if your replying to my post, but if you are, i'm looking $6k as per the room layout. Only for speakers
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post #9 of 31 Old 08-27-2019, 07:12 AM
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Hi David,

Yes, I was replying to you. $6K should be fine for the speakers. I would *highly* recommend moving your seating just 2-3 feet forward. To get decent surround you need to have the surrounds in your room behind you or in the ceiling. The gotcha, is that you can't have Atmos in the ceiling with surrounds also in the ceiling.

I would also consider putting your subs in the front two corners instead of the sides of the room.

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post #10 of 31 Old 08-28-2019, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn Gordon View Post
Hi David,

Yes, I was replying to you. $6K should be fine for the speakers. I would *highly* recommend moving your seating just 2-3 feet forward. To get decent surround you need to have the surrounds in your room behind you or in the ceiling. The gotcha, is that you can't have Atmos in the ceiling with surrounds also in the ceiling.

I would also consider putting your subs in the front two corners instead of the sides of the room.
Thanks Dawn. Not sure if you can see it or not, but i have a 120" screen, moving the chairs 2-3ft closer would be an issue i believe. I think these speakers are built for this https://www.svsound.com/products/ultra-surround.
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post #11 of 31 Old 08-28-2019, 06:55 AM
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SVS marketing is incorrect when they say you can create a 7.1 field with just 5 speakers. These folks must be living at Hogwarts.

See the Triad version below:

OnWall: https://www.triadspeakers.com/produc...onze-surround/

InWall: https://www.triadspeakers.com/produc...nze4-surround/

Better sound then the SVS as well.

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post #12 of 31 Old 08-28-2019, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidkaleta View Post
Thanks Dawn. Not sure if you can see it or not, but i have a 120" screen, moving the chairs 2-3ft closer would be an issue i believe. I think these speakers are built for this https://www.svsound.com/products/ultra-surround.
Free returns so no financial risk.

I think they might provide an increase in surround effect with what, essentially, are two speakers within the same box firing in two different directions.

There's one in the outlet section for $350, so $850 for what might prove to be 4 speakers in their net effect is not too bad.

https://www.svsound.com/collections/...no-outlet-1013

Geoff A. J., California
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post #13 of 31 Old 08-28-2019, 01:02 PM
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I have a small space and started with a 5.1 setup. I moved my seating forward about 2-3 feet and have had great results with adding the extra back surrounds in a 7.1 type setup. If you can move forward a foot or two, it's definitely well worth it for the much more accurate imaging.
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post #14 of 31 Old 08-28-2019, 01:07 PM
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Get a 100" screen, move the seating forward (be sure your seated ears are not at the 3/4 point of the length of the room to avoid bass issues), then install your speakers in the back.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.
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post #15 of 31 Old 08-28-2019, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn Gordon View Post
SVS marketing is incorrect when they say you can create a 7.1 field with just 5 speakers. These folks must be living at Hogwarts.

See the Triad version below:

OnWall: https://www.triadspeakers.com/produc...onze-surround/

InWall: https://www.triadspeakers.com/produc...nze4-surround/

Better sound then the SVS as well.
Thanks, i'll have a look
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post #16 of 31 Old 08-28-2019, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m0j0 View Post
I have a small space and started with a 5.1 setup. I moved my seating forward about 2-3 feet and have had great results with adding the extra back surrounds in a 7.1 type setup. If you can move forward a foot or two, it's definitely well worth it for the much more accurate imaging.
Looks like most people are suggesting to move the seats forward. Maybe i'll just have to reduce screen size to allow for this. Thanks for the info.
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post #17 of 31 Old 08-28-2019, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
Get a 100" screen, move the seating forward (be sure your seated ears are not at the 3/4 point of the length of the room to avoid bass issues), then install your speakers in the back.
Hi RayGuy, i already have the screen from a previous install, so that's out. I'll move seats forward and try that out. If image is too big, i'll reduce from the projector.
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post #18 of 31 Old 08-28-2019, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by davidkaleta View Post
Hi RayGuy, i already have the screen from a previous install, so that's out. I'll move seats forward and try that out. If image is too big, i'll reduce from the projector.
I wouldn't make too much of a compromise to your video. 7.1 channel is nice but it's a marginal improvement over 5.1. Adding one or two ATMOS pairs would make more of a difference.
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post #19 of 31 Old 08-29-2019, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
I wouldn't make too much of a compromise to your video. 7.1 channel is nice but it's a marginal improvement over 5.1. Adding one or two ATMOS pairs would make more of a difference.
It's the side speakers that's the problem. i plan on only using 5.2 setup with 2 heights, no rear surrounds. Chairs are against wall. Looking at the SVS elevation as sides might do the trick!
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post #20 of 31 Old 08-29-2019, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by davidkaleta View Post
It's the side speakers that's the problem. i plan on only using 5.2 setup with 2 heights, no rear surrounds. Chairs are against wall. Looking at the SVS elevation as sides might do the trick!
Sorry I got you mixed up with the OP. Are you planning to use the height speakers as ATMOS? Typically they wouldn't be located on the sides but sometimes compromises have to be made.
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post #21 of 31 Old 08-29-2019, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
Sorry I got you mixed up with the OP. Are you planning to use the height speakers as ATMOS? Typically they wouldn't be located on the sides but sometimes compromises have to be made.
No worries. Yes, the height speakers will be for atmos. So the there will be 2 fronts, 1 center, 2 subs (mid wall) 2 sides at ear level, placed on back wall (svs elevation), and 2 heights at ceiling level, again svs elevation. I think this would work.
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post #22 of 31 Old 08-29-2019, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by davidkaleta View Post
No worries. Yes, the height speakers will be for atmos. So the there will be 2 fronts, 1 center, 2 subs (mid wall) 2 sides at ear level, placed on back wall (svs elevation), and 2 heights at ceiling level, again svs elevation. I think this would work.

I wouldn't recommend putting the side surrounds on the back wall facing out like you have in the diagram. You either want them on the sides facing in toward the MLP or just behind and angled in toward the MLP. You might want to get some speaker stands that allow for the angling if you want to keep them on the back wall.
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post #23 of 31 Old 08-29-2019, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by m0j0 View Post
I wouldn't recommend putting the side surrounds on the back wall facing out like you have in the diagram. You either want them on the sides facing in toward the MLP or just behind and angled in toward the MLP. You might want to get some speaker stands that allow for the angling if you want to keep them on the back wall.
Thanks m0j0, but i'm thinking more like the attached pic. Yes i suppose i could get normal speakers and place them on brackets. Might be cheaper also.
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post #24 of 31 Old 08-29-2019, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Manderin View Post
I currently have a 5.1 setup and was looking at adding two surround back speakers to move up to 7.1. However, I only have about 8 inches between the wall and the back of my couch. Even if I went with in-wall speakers, is it really worth it considering how close the speakers would have to be? I can't move the couch.
There are almost zero benefits of 7.1 over 5.1 for the main listener position. It's great for multiple rows and the folks in the rear. Adding rear surrounds that are worse quality than your surrounds will actually make the overall sound of the system worse, not better (it will be a paid downgrade). I'd stick with 5.1 and look at doing something else. Perhaps you can add 4 ceiling speakers and go atmos. 5.1.4 is phenomenal.

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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
There are almost zero benefits of 7.1 over 5.1 for the main listener position. It's great for multiple rows and the folks in the rear. Adding rear surrounds that are worse quality than your surrounds will actually make the overall sound of the system worse, not better (it will be a paid downgrade). I'd stick with 5.1 and look at doing something else. Perhaps you can add 4 ceiling speakers and go atmos. 5.1.4 is phenomenal.
Thanks for the advice. I'll stick with 5.1 then. As for 4 speaker atmos, is that going to make a difference over 2 speakers if I'm only sitting 12 ft. from the TV?
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post #26 of 31 Old 08-29-2019, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Manderin View Post
Thanks for the advice. I'll stick with 5.1 then. As for 4 speaker atmos, is that going to make a difference over 2 speakers if I'm only sitting 12 ft. from the TV?
I'm curious about this as well. I'm switching from a SB to a somewhat proper atmos setup. I'm about 11 feet from my TV and was thinking about a 5.1.4 or 5.1.2 with the atmos installed in my ceiling. I was also wondering if I can do 2 atmos on ceiling and the other 2 as upfiring off the front speakers?

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post #27 of 31 Old 08-29-2019, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Manderin View Post
Thanks for the advice. I'll stick with 5.1 then. As for 4 speaker atmos, is that going to make a difference over 2 speakers if I'm only sitting 12 ft. from the TV?
4 is better, it doesn't really have to do with your viewing distance. Ideally 4 in ceiling, with one pair ahead of the MLP and one pair behind. If that's not possible, the next best option is one front height pair (above the main front speakers), and one ceiling pair slightly ahead of the MLP.

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I'm curious about this as well. I'm switching from a SB to a somewhat proper atmos setup. I'm about 11 feet from my TV and was thinking about a 5.1.4 or 5.1.2 with the atmos installed in my ceiling. I was also wondering if I can do 2 atmos on ceiling and the other 2 as upfiring off the front speakers?
The upfiring ATMOS speakers generally don't do well but it depends on the room. Can you do front heights as mentioned above?
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post #28 of 31 Old 08-29-2019, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
4 is better, it doesn't really have to do with your viewing distance. Ideally 4 in ceiling, with one pair ahead of the MLP and one pair behind. If that's not possible, the next best option is one front height pair (above the main front speakers), and one ceiling pair slightly ahead of the MLP.



The upfiring ATMOS speakers generally don't do well but it depends on the room. Can you do front heights as mentioned above?
I can probably do 4 in the ceiling like you said. i just have to get someone qualified to install :-)

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post #29 of 31 Old 08-29-2019, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Manderin View Post
Thanks for the advice. I'll stick with 5.1 then. As for 4 speaker atmos, is that going to make a difference over 2 speakers if I'm only sitting 12 ft. from the TV?
Quote:
Originally Posted by akadennis View Post
I'm curious about this as well. I'm switching from a SB to a somewhat proper atmos setup. I'm about 11 feet from my TV and was thinking about a 5.1.4 or 5.1.2 with the atmos installed in my ceiling. I was also wondering if I can do 2 atmos on ceiling and the other 2 as upfiring off the front speakers?
I found 5.1.2 or 7.1.2 almost completely worthless over just 5.1 or 7.1. I found 5.1.4 incredible. So I'd say either go 4 speakers for atmos or don't bother with it at all. Also, I have not found upfiring speakers to be very good. If you can't do in ceiling, how about on-ceiling or even on side walls at ceiling level.

My 4 atmos speakers are shelf mounted bookshelf speakers on their sides pushed up to the ceiling.

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post #30 of 31 Old 08-30-2019, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidkaleta View Post
Looks like most people are suggesting to move the seats forward. Maybe i'll just have to reduce screen size to allow for this. Thanks for the info.
What project do you have?

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