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post #61 of 114 Old 09-04-2019, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by smithsabom View Post
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...-pair--300-658

the transmission line design give the lower frequency
Transmission line design seems neat. Researching it, I can find no downside except that it is harder to design. On a review of this actual speakers, Audioholics has this to say about transmission line design: "Proponents of transmission lines claim they have the transient response of a sealed speaker along with the low-end efficiency and output of a ported speaker."

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post #62 of 114 Old 09-04-2019, 12:53 PM
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Also, these Sony towers sometimes go on sale for $100 each:
https://www.amazon.com/Sony-SSCS3-Fl.../dp/B00O8YLL8E

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post #63 of 114 Old 09-04-2019, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Pete7874 View Post
Also, these Sony towers sometimes go on sale for $100 each:
https://www.amazon.com/Sony-SSCS3-Fl.../dp/B00O8YLL8E
The Sony SSC bookshelf speakers are well regarded here and are opined as good music speakers.

I guess I should start studying these speakers and be ready for Thanksgiving sales. Because for more expensive speakers I would feel foolish buying now since some or all of them will be 50% off from what they are now.

My problem is the more I wait the more I will increase my budget. I have to tell myself this is for an exercise room where I will listen to podcasts mostly, music second but at same time, at this price point it does not take much increase for better quality. I just do not want to plan for $300 then keep increasing it and be around $1000 for that listening purpose.
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post #64 of 114 Old 09-04-2019, 01:40 PM
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I have never actually heard Klipsch. Being a horn is the treble over whelming and harsh?
Depends on whom you ask. Some people find them ear fatiguing. Others love them.

The higher end Klipsch speakers (Reference Premiere line) are more balanced, but that is above your stated budget; alas, at the rate you're going, they may be in your budget soon.

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post #65 of 114 Old 09-04-2019, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I just got two UPS notices that the A180s shipped. Schedueld delivery is tomorrow. Two shipments - one for each speaker.

These A180s seem pretty good. For $100 for both, it would probably be hard to beat outside of getting lucky on Craigslist.
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post #66 of 114 Old 09-04-2019, 01:53 PM
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I was originally think of those. They have good reviews indicating they perform much higher than their budget cost would imply. Some reviews indicated that they were on par with the Pioneer Andrew Jones towers but the Jones towers, while less efficient and not extending as low, sounded better overall.
About the only thing the T50 has going for them is the bass .... they have a 4 db boost around 1 khz and a 8 db dip around 4 khz and about a 5 db rise from 4 khz to 10 khz ... a roller coaster frequency response that can annoy many --- however, if you are not a nit-picker then you may like them

The purple line
https://www.soundandvision.com/image...lksys.meas.jpg
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post #67 of 114 Old 09-04-2019, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I cannot find many reviews on the A180s. They seem the same as the A130 bookshelf except tower and extra driver. There are some reviews on the A130s. I have never owned towers before and do not know if they generally sound similar to the same family/design of bookshelf speakers. Would one except the 180s to be similar, in sound, to the A130s just more dynamic and extended lower?

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post #68 of 114 Old 09-04-2019, 02:08 PM
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Would one except the 180s to be similar, in sound, to the A130s just more dynamic and extended lower?
Yup. They're both 2-way speakers, using the same tweeters and woofers, and I believe the crossover is the same or very similar.

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post #69 of 114 Old 09-06-2019, 07:24 AM - Thread Starter
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How do they measure a speakers diameter? I knew the Arena 180s would not be 7 inch. I measured them from surround to surround and they were shy of 6 inches. So at first I thought they were really 5.25" but then I measured the woofers in SVS Ultras, which are listed as having 6.5" woofers. And they measured exactly the same as the ones in the Arena 180. So I guess they are 6.5" woofers.

I never really thought about it and just assumed that listed diameters, for speakers, were measured from inside the rubber surround but it looks like they are measured to the outer frame?

What points on a speaker are measured for the listed diameter in their specifications?

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post #70 of 114 Old 09-07-2019, 08:00 AM
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Yeah, I honestly don't know how JBL came up with 7" on this one. But how do they sound?

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post #71 of 114 Old 09-07-2019, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, I honestly don't know how JBL came up with 7" on this one. But how do they sound?

They sound fair. Seem a little directional. Listening between them, soundstage and imaging is fairly good but move outside of a middle position, which I will in an exercise room, I can localize the sound. So not room filling I guess. For comparison when listening to music on my home theater system, with just the fronts and subwoofer doing music, it fills room and even outside the room well if I open doors. They are also not as discrete/clear in various tones - more fuzzy. I am not sure what type of speaker I like - perhaps bright?

On the JBLs, at $49 a piece, no there is probably no way to come close to them for that price and they do fit my need but I might upgrade later. If so, would it be easy to sell them. I am in Houston, so big market without having to ship, and I have sold some Emp Tek (RBH) bookshelf speakers and a Denon receiver pretty quickly here - receiver went in a day or two and the speakers took about a week and a half. Would JBL's towers sell well at $100 used for both?

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post #72 of 114 Old 09-07-2019, 08:50 AM
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$100 - $125 is a good price for selling them ... if you decide to do so

I have owned some Arena speakers, and yes they are limited

Woofer size is measured by the outside edge of the frames for marketing purpose
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post #73 of 114 Old 09-07-2019, 09:04 AM
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For comparison when listening to music on my home theater system, with just the fronts and subwoofer doing music, it fills room and even outside the room well if I open doors.
What speakers are they?

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post #74 of 114 Old 09-07-2019, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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What speakers are they?
SVS Ultra Bookshelf and Power Sound Audio v1500 subwoofer. Outside of the main area, bass can be boomy occasionally depending on song/music but overall it is still nice spatial sound outside of general viewing area. Not as good as main listening area of course but not as directional limited as the JBL might be.

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post #75 of 114 Old 09-08-2019, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I have never listened to bluetooth audio until recently. It seems limited and poorer quality. On my main system, I listened to streaming via a device hooked via HDMI. Since digital, I assumed bluetooth would be the same. I am borrowing a Yamaha AVR. It has internet radio. I listened to the same type of music via internet radio on the JBL speakers. It sounded much better - more lively, more clarity with various instruments standing out more and minute sounds clearer. I also noticed that bluetooth streaming skips/pauses-replays a second of audio occasionally. I tried bluetooth on my main system and it sounded poorer too. I guess the bluetooth has extra compression or something making its quality not as good.

I'll hook old CD player up to the new speakers when I get a chance to see how it sounds that way.
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post #76 of 114 Old 09-08-2019, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Interesting. I found this article from initial search about bluetooth and audio quality. I was not using aptx but basic bluetooth, so I guess what I was using was SBC or something comparable vs aptx or higher bandwidth bluetooth. From testing, in that article, frequency readings showed more frequencies cutoffs in the SBC playing vs source.

http://www.sereneaudio.com/blog/how-...io-at-its-best



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post #77 of 114 Old 09-08-2019, 11:13 AM
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Interesting. I found this article from initial search about bluetooth and audio quality.
That is interesting

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post #78 of 114 Old 09-08-2019, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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That is interesting
Yeah looks like basic bluetooth has a compression ceiling around 16.5 Khz. I guess that would explain why I did not hear as much clarity when using it.
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post #79 of 114 Old 09-08-2019, 01:02 PM
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That is interesting
Yeah looks like basic bluetooth has a compression ceiling around 16.5 Khz. I guess that would explain why I did not hear as much clarity when using it.
Depending on your age and your specific ears, you may not even be able to hear anything past 16 KHz. There are videos on youtube that you can listen to with a good set of headphones to test the limits of your ears. Our theoretical limit is 20 KHz when we're kids, and then it goes downhill from there. By the time you are in your 40s, you typically max out around 15 KHz. All of a sudden mosquitos no longer buzz. 🙂


You'll find some articles claiming that in reality there isn't a whole lot of audible differences between SBC and aptX - they both kind of suck. 🙂

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/le...ec-is-the-best

I try to stay away from bluetooth streaming and will only use it as last resort. I'd rather use something like CCA that can stream content directly.

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post #80 of 114 Old 09-08-2019, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Depending on your age and your specific ears, you may not even be able to hear anything past 16 KHz. There are videos on youtube that you can listen to with a good set of headphones to test the limits of your ears. Our theoretical limit is 20 KHz when we're kids, and then it goes downhill from there. By the time you are in your 40s, you typically max out around 15 KHz. All of a sudden mosquitos no longer buzz. 🙂


You'll find some articles claiming that in reality there isn't a whole lot of audible differences between SBC and aptX - they both kind of suck. 🙂

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/le...ec-is-the-best

I try to stay away from bluetooth streaming and will only use it as last resort. I'd rather use something like CCA that can stream content directly.
I agree. I likely cannot hear that high. I noticed a difference before searching for it. I was just curious if I was imagining it but I noticed it on two different system. Also, on Bluetooth, I noticed occasionally pauses-replays (by pauses-replays I mean I heard it as a quick pause followed by a repeat of a note or two.)

What is CCA?

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post #81 of 114 Old 09-08-2019, 01:50 PM
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What is CCA?
Chromecast Audio:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-ne...rs-thread.html

Sadly, Google discontinued it, but any kind of network streamer will essentially serve similar purpose, or even direct streaming capability within most modern AVRs.

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I try to stay away from bluetooth streaming and will only use it as last resort. I'd rather use something like CCA that can stream content directly.
I do not use bluetooth -- it does not interest me

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post #83 of 114 Old 09-08-2019, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7874 View Post
Chromecast Audio:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-ne...rs-thread.html

Sadly, Google discontinued it, but any kind of network streamer will essentially serve similar purpose, or even direct streaming capability within most modern AVRs.
you can still find CCA on ebay...

others to look at : Play-fi devices ( phorus PR5, Klipsch gate) can be had via amazon ~30...found this one on amazon as well: NEXUM TuneBox2 TB20 WiFi Hi-Fi Music Receiver: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01I1S64Y8...dDbGljaz10cnVl

higher end: HEOS, SONOS, Musicast...

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What about listening to streaming music - Amazon Music, Apple, Spotify, etc.? Would using a phone/device to stream one of those and deliver to receiver via RCA instead of bluetooth be better or since it is lossy anyway, it would not matter?
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you can still find CCA on ebay...
I know, but people are asking what seems like a lot for them now, compared to what they cost when they were still in production. Alas, sometimes you can find them for a more reasonable price on your local Facebook Marketplace or craigslist.

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What about listening to streaming music - Amazon Music, Apple, Spotify, etc.? Would using a phone/device to stream one of those and deliver to receiver via RCA instead of bluetooth be better or since it is lossy anyway, it would not matter?
Depends on how good your phone's internal DAC is, I suppose, but I would generally still prefer an RCA cable connection over using bluetooth.

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post #87 of 114 Old 09-08-2019, 02:45 PM
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What about listening to streaming music - Amazon Music, Apple, Spotify, etc.? Would using a phone/device to stream one of those and deliver to receiver via RCA instead of bluetooth be better or since it is lossy anyway, it would not matter?
Wouldn't matter a bit...you're not exactly planning to do any critical listening while working out, right?

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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Wouldn't matter a bit...you're not exactly planning to do any critical listening while working out, right?
I disagree. it matters. Friends don't let friends stream via BT in their home systems - the only time is when you want to play a short selection...or have a guest over who wants you to listen to something, etc...

a streaming device allows the stream to go directly to the device, the phone/tablet controls the stream, but is not "in the stream"

the big issue I have with streaming from your phone in a home environment is notifications, calls, etc... that interrupt the music.

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Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
What about listening to streaming music - Amazon Music, Apple, Spotify, etc.? Would using a phone/device to stream one of those and deliver to receiver via RCA instead of bluetooth be better or since it is lossy anyway, it would not matter?
your phone will control the stream, but not be "in the stream"... This is the major benefit over BT...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by smithsabom View Post
the big issue I have with streaming from your phone in a home environment is notifications, calls, etc... that interrupt the music.
That's true...I was thinking more of a cheap $100 tablet like an Amazon Fire to do it...I have an ancient Google Nexus 7 that I keep for gym duty and occasional home duty even though my home receiver has its own BT streaming capability, I just prefer the interface of the tablet app. I prefer to use my phone as little as possible in order to maximize battery life, since all the cellphone companies have now done away with user replaceable batts.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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