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post #1 of 31 Old 09-03-2019, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Suggestions for compact speakers in a large room

Please see pic attached... We just replaced a 50" plasma that was in the nook with a 65" on an articulating mount. I have been using the Definitive Technology speakers for several years. I have Pro Monitor 1000 L/R and surround, Pro Center 2000, and Pro Monitor 800 for height. I also have a Mirage S10 sub in the right rear corner, (currently testing it in the nook behind TV) and Mirage S12 in the front right corner. (these are the only locations we can put the subs in due to room layout) Currently driving this with a Denon AVR-2312CI. But that could change if needed.

Primary duty is movies. But we also use the system for music since it is our primary family room.

I think the Def Techs are OK. But I've learned over time that I'm not a fan of their aluminum tweeters. And their resolution at lower listening levels isn't great. When I crank it up to help with dialog, I get blown away by the additional treble. I've adjusted the crossover freqs and other settings in the 2312 several times to try to dial them in. But it never feels like I'm getting it right. (gain something/lose something) I am hoping the sub behind the TV might help fill the front soundstage.

My issue is the mantle. I am severely limited by its 7-3/8" Depth. The L/R could go on the wall. But the Center is still a problem. I don't really want to raise the TV to install it in the nook since the TV is already so high.

I'm considering the Micca M42X/M42X-C, NHT SuperZero 2.1/SuperCenter, RSL CG-3/CG-23, and Ascend CTM-200SE. I'm leaning toward Ascend right now without any additional feedback.

Price isn't the primary concern. But nobody likes to throw away money. I'm not even sure if I will see a benefit from any of these options. I had small Polk speakers (6750 I think?) before these. So I'm already gun shy about going to smaller drivers. Couple that with spending more for one option over another, and I'm at an analysis standstill! Looking for improvement first... and if it's a good value, then that's another plus!

I'm typically listening around -15dB to -9dB depending on the movie. So even though the 2312 is rated at 105W/ch, I am a little concerned about being able to fill the space with speakers that are less efficient.

Also not sure if I should be concerned with the surround and height speakers. I could swap out the 800's with a pair of the 1000's for height if I replace the L/R. Guessing these aren't a big deal. But it would be nice if they match acoustically, and I do need to consider the WAF of having mis-matched speakers. (This is another reason the price difference becomes an issue. Since the 200SE doesn't have a single driver surround, their higher price would get multiplied several times.)

I appreciate any insight you guys can share! Thanks!
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post #2 of 31 Old 09-03-2019, 09:30 AM
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The RSL's have a great return policy so you might want to try them first. Positive pro reviews and many here like them. The Ascends are a great choice too and with 2 4" should be able to fill the room with sound and not be fatiguing.
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post #3 of 31 Old 09-03-2019, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason4606 View Post
Please see pic attached... We just replaced a 50" plasma that was in the nook with a 65" on an articulating mount. I have been using the Definitive Technology speakers for several years. I have Pro Monitor 1000 L/R and surround, Pro Center 2000, and Pro Monitor 800 for height. I also have a Mirage S10 sub in the right rear corner, (currently testing it in the nook behind TV) and Mirage S12 in the front right corner. (these are the only locations we can put the subs in due to room layout) Currently driving this with a Denon AVR-2312CI. But that could change if needed.

Primary duty is movies. But we also use the system for music since it is our primary family room.

I think the Def Techs are OK. But I've learned over time that I'm not a fan of their aluminum tweeters. And their resolution at lower listening levels isn't great. When I crank it up to help with dialog, I get blown away by the additional treble. I've adjusted the crossover freqs and other settings in the 2312 several times to try to dial them in. But it never feels like I'm getting it right. (gain something/lose something) I am hoping the sub behind the TV might help fill the front soundstage.

My issue is the mantle. I am severely limited by its 7-3/8" Depth. The L/R could go on the wall. But the Center is still a problem. I don't really want to raise the TV to install it in the nook since the TV is already so high.

I'm considering the Micca M42X/M42X-C, NHT SuperZero 2.1/SuperCenter, RSL CG-3/CG-23, and Ascend CTM-200SE. I'm leaning toward Ascend right now without any additional feedback.

Price isn't the primary concern. But nobody likes to throw away money. I'm not even sure if I will see a benefit from any of these options. I had small Polk speakers (6750 I think?) before these. So I'm already gun shy about going to smaller drivers. Couple that with spending more for one option over another, and I'm at an analysis standstill! Looking for improvement first... and if it's a good value, then that's another plus!

I'm typically listening around -15dB to -9dB depending on the movie. So even though the 2312 is rated at 105W/ch, I am a little concerned about being able to fill the space with speakers that are less efficient.

Also not sure if I should be concerned with the surround and height speakers. I could swap out the 800's with a pair of the 1000's for height if I replace the L/R. Guessing these aren't a big deal. But it would be nice if they match acoustically, and I do need to consider the WAF of having mis-matched speakers. (This is another reason the price difference becomes an issue. Since the 200SE doesn't have a single driver surround, their higher price would get multiplied several times.)

I appreciate any insight you guys can share! Thanks!
I'd order three CG23s with free returns if not happy and place them all horizontally on the mantle.

The CG23 play much lower than the CG3. -3db point of 54hz vs 96hz and will also play louder as they have dual main drivers.

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...iew-test-bench

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post #4 of 31 Old 09-03-2019, 01:31 PM
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for your consideration: GoldenEar SuperSat 60... not budget friendly, but WAF and limited space friendly. my set up in the pic. also consider Triad bronze LCR , as well as Totem tribe ( there are several levels of tribe 1 -5. 1 being least expensive) both only available through dealers.

hope it helps
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post #5 of 31 Old 09-03-2019, 01:42 PM
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another one to consider: the axiomaudio VP150 in cabinet center channel speaker... being an in cabinet design, it will require some finishing...but it will fit. I'd probably still be using the one I have, if I hadn't changed directions aesthetically ( I was going to build a new mantle at one time and set the CC into it. still wondering what to do with it...)
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What is the HEIGHT limitation?

If you have installed the TV on an articulating mount, I assume you often point the TV in a different direction than straight ahead? If so, then you may want to consider two possibilities. First, mounting the center channel to the bottom of the TV, so it travels with the TV, and always points in the direction it is facing. Second, get yourself a PASSIVE 3 channel soundbar and attach that to the bottom of the TV. That way all three speakers are pointed in the direction the TV is facing.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

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post #7 of 31 Old 09-03-2019, 02:12 PM
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yet another option: artisonusa.com ...see pic
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post #8 of 31 Old 09-04-2019, 12:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! Some awesome options, and a beautiful setup with those GoldenEars!

I know I said price wasn't the primary concern. But would like to stay around $1K or less if possible. I'm guessing the current options will all be better than what I have. But not really sure. Seems like the same Def Techs are still popular.

  • RSL would be $1140 (3 x CG-23, 4 x CG-3. Don't think they offer discounts other than packages with Sub.)
  • Ascend would be $946 (6 x 200SE, 1 x 200SE-C. All dual driver. Not likely necessary for height and surround. But not apples to apples comparison with others either.)
  • NHT would be $637, (3 x SuperCenter, 4 x SuperZero)
  • Micca would be $370 (3 x MB42X-C, 4 x MB42X)

Surprised there hasn't been any love for the NHT yet. Was first leaning that way primarily due to the 4.5" drivers, and also due to their lower price. But I'm impressed by the specs of the Ascend. Might not be as pretty and still have WAF to contend with though.

Will try to demo 2-3. Should I strike Micca from the list or give them a try? Add anything else?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
What is the HEIGHT limitation?

If you have installed the TV on an articulating mount, I assume you often point the TV in a different direction than straight ahead? If so, then you may want to consider two possibilities. First, mounting the center channel to the bottom of the TV, so it travels with the TV, and always points in the direction it is facing. Second, get yourself a PASSIVE 3 channel soundbar and attach that to the bottom of the TV. That way all three speakers are pointed in the direction the TV is facing.
There is just under 7"H under the TV as it sits now. I could lower it ~2" or raise it several inches without much difficulty.

The main reasons for the mount were to be able to easily adjust the TV exactly where we want it, and keep easy access behind the TV. We won't likely rotate the screen off center.

I started out looking for a passive LCR soundbar. But my first impression was most were really expensive compared to individual speakers. I could be wrong. But I punted the combo LCR idea and started searching for better small speakers. Willing to change my mind though!

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post #9 of 31 Old 09-04-2019, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Jason4606 View Post
Thanks! Some awesome options, and a beautiful setup with those GoldenEars!

I know I said price wasn't the primary concern. But would like to stay around $1K or less if possible. I'm guessing the current options will all be better than what I have. But not really sure. Seems like the same Def Techs are still popular.

  • RSL would be $1140 (3 x CG-23, 4 x CG-3. Don't think they offer discounts other than packages with Sub.)
  • Ascend would be $946 (6 x 170SE, 1 x 170SE-C. All dual driver. Not likely necessary for height and surround. But not necessarily apples to apples comparison either.)
  • NHT would be $637 (3 x SuperCenter, 4 x SuperZero)
  • Micca would be $370 (3 x MB42X-C, 4 x MB42X)

Surprised there hasn't been any love for the NHT yet. Was first leaning that way primarily due to the 4.5" drivers, and also due to their lower price. But I'm impressed by the specs of the Ascend. Might not be as pretty and still have WAF to contend with though.

Will try to demo 2-3. Should I strike Micca from the list or give them a try? Add anything else?



There is just under 7"H under the TV as it sits now. I could lower it ~2" or raise it several inches without much difficulty.

The main reasons for the mount were to be able to easily adjust the TV exactly where we want it, and keep easy access behind the TV. We won't likely rotate the screen off center.

I started out looking for a passive LCR soundbar. But my first impression was most were really expensive compared to individual speakers. I could be wrong. But I punted the combo LCR idea and started searching for better small speakers. Willing to change my mind though!
If you are not required to go with a soundbar (due to WAF or other considerations), then, by all means, stick with individual speakers. Good that you have some play in the TV height, so the center channel height does not change your choice, just so it "fits".

There are a lot of good options on the market, but Micca is not in the same league as the other choices. Perhaps add HTD (if you like the form factor). Really, there is no way to know what you/wife will like and not like in a sound signature, so the best option is to just go ahead and order two to four pairs, test them in your home, and send back the loser(s), while filling out the set with the winner. Yeah, it'll be a few $s to return, but the peace of mind it brings will be well worth the investment. Not to mention, the Brownie Points you will gain by involving the wife in the decision.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.
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post #10 of 31 Old 09-04-2019, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason4606 View Post
Thanks! Some awesome options, and a beautiful setup with those GoldenEars!

I know I said price wasn't the primary concern. But would like to stay around $1K or less if possible. I'm guessing the current options will all be better than what I have. But not really sure. Seems like the same Def Techs are still popular.

[LIST]
[*]Ascend would be $946 (6 x 170SE, 1 x 170SE-C. All dual driver. Not likely necessary for height and surround. But not necessarily apples to apples comparison either.)[*]NHT would be $637 (3 x SuperCenter, 4 x SuperZero)
[/LIST
the Ascend CBM -170 is not a small speaker. consider 2 x 170(l/r)(looks like you have the space on the sides, 1 x HTM 200 (c). 4 x HTM 200 for heights... puts you at 858 + shipping

as for NHT - very good quality, very often recommended. I rebuilt an old set VS-1as. sounded great, but moved on from them for other reasons.

as much as I love ascend( I have been to their demo room a couple of times) NHT seems to be your value solution.

Main: Sony XBR75900E, Denon AVR-x4400, Denon POA-5200 (L/R(a) Goldenear supersat 60, (b)FW Boston acoustic Bravo 2. C Goldenear supersat 60C,
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post #11 of 31 Old 09-04-2019, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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the Ascend CBM -170 is not a small speaker. consider 2 x 170(l/r)(looks like you have the space on the sides, 1 x HTM 200 (c). 4 x HTM 200 for heights... puts you at 858 + shipping

as for NHT - very good quality, very often recommended. I rebuilt an old set VS-1as. sounded great, but moved on from them for other reasons.

as much as I love ascend( I have been to their demo room a couple of times) NHT seems to be your value solution.
Thank You! You're absolutely right! I was looking at the 170 as a possible option, and had a brain fart when typing. Unfortunately they are too deep. I was pricing 6 x CTM-200SE and 1 x CTM200SE-C at $858 + $88 shipping. (I've edited my original post.)

Looks like the HTD Versa SB1/SB2 would be an option for my space constraints. But not sure about using them as freestanding. Don't really want to wall-mount if I don't need to. Want to stay as low as possible and maybe angle freestanding speakers down a little with pads.

I'm wondering now about the NHT Media Series for the L/R/C, with SuperZeros in the rear. If I used the Media Series satellites for L/R and eliminated a separate set of height speakers, I'd end up with 5-1/4" drivers up front and rears that would hopefully match fairly well for $723.

But can't find much info about the Media Series online. I'm a little concerned about the aluminum tweeters being too bright. And the only review i found, for the towers, shows this to be an issue. Plus I doubt the integrated Atmos drivers would be as good as separate speakers... especially with a vaulted, 2-story ceiling. (Maybe I've already talked myself out of them! ) But eliminating separate height speakers helps keep overall cost comparable to other options and WAF would be high!
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for your consideration: GoldenEar SuperSat 60... not budget friendly, but WAF and limited space friendly. my set up in the pic. also consider Triad bronze LCR , as well as Totem tribe ( there are several levels of tribe 1 -5. 1 being least expensive) both only available through dealers.

hope it helps
THis on wall type of speaker would be perfect in your situation. My personal choice is the Martin Logan SLM series. They sell 3 different sizes and all sizes have the same tweeter. I test drove one for my home theater center channel and loved it so much I bought a set for my bedroom TV. They can be had for 25-30% off from any legit dealer if you only ask.


https://www.martinlogan.com/en/product/motion-slm

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post #13 of 31 Old 09-07-2019, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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What about the BIC FH6-LCR for L, C, and R, and FH-65B for height and surround? They are bigger than the Def Techs, but will fit. I know that WAF would be low on these. I'll cross that bridge if I decide to try them. And honestly, I'd rather go to something the same size or smaller too. But not sure I'd be happy...

I really like the size of the NHT SuperZero and SuperCenter. But still afraid of going to smaller, less efficient speakers. I don't want to have to max out my AVR for normal listening levels. And I wonder if that is part of my problem now? Since the mids aren't there, I get blown away with treble when I turn them up?

I don't like getting all of the bass from the subs now. I can definitely locate them with the 2000 Pro Center and 1000 Pro Monitors crossed at 100Hz, and 2-channel stereo is pretty awful. Will any of the smaller options handle an 80Hz (or lower) crossover and be able to stand on their own for most everything other than LFE?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason4606 View Post
But can't find much info about the Media Series online. I'm a little concerned about the aluminum tweeters being too bright. And the only review i found, for the towers, shows this to be an issue. Plus I doubt the integrated Atmos drivers would be as good as separate speakers... especially with a vaulted, 2-story ceiling. (Maybe I've already talked myself out of them! ) But eliminating separate height speakers helps keep overall cost comparable to other options and WAF would be high!
The NHT Aluminum tweeters are not bright -- I have experience with their tweeters

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post #15 of 31 Old 09-07-2019, 06:00 PM
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What about the BIC FH6-LCR for L, C, and R, and FH-65B for height and surround? They are bigger than the Def Techs, but will fit. I know that WAF would be low on these. I'll cross that bridge if I decide to try them. ...
The FH6 LCR are entry level, their frequency measurements are not good, plus they do not have much bass

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post #16 of 31 Old 09-08-2019, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason4606 View Post
What about the BIC FH6-LCR for L, C, and R, and FH-65B for height and surround? They are bigger than the Def Techs, but will fit. I know that WAF would be low on these. I'll cross that bridge if I decide to try them. And honestly, I'd rather go to something the same size or smaller too. But not sure I'd be happy...

I really like the size of the NHT SuperZero and SuperCenter. But still afraid of going to smaller, less efficient speakers. I don't want to have to max out my AVR for normal listening levels. And I wonder if that is part of my problem now? Since the mids aren't there, I get blown away with treble when I turn them up?

I don't like getting all of the bass from the subs now. I can definitely locate them with the 2000 Pro Center and 1000 Pro Monitors crossed at 100Hz, and 2-channel stereo is pretty awful. Will any of the smaller options handle an 80Hz (or lower) crossover and be able to stand on their own for most everything other than LFE?
SuperZero's -3db point is 110 hz.

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...-labs-measures

How about these; $200/pair factory refurb direct from JBL. 15X9X11

Measure very well and -3db point is 52hz.

https://www.jbl.com/loudspeakers/STU...RoCWXUQAvD_BwE

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...tem-test-bench

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post #17 of 31 Old 09-08-2019, 12:50 PM
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RSL is more expensive, but you get much better bass extension with three cg23s up front. So many of the thin options being considered have poor bass extension, you will end up crossing over at 120 Hz or higher ... order a pair and let your ears decide.
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post #18 of 31 Old 09-08-2019, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
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I really like the size of the NHT SuperZero and SuperCenter. But still afraid of going to smaller, less efficient speakers.

Will any of the smaller options handle an 80Hz (or lower) crossover and be able to stand on their own for most everything other than LFE?
The Ascend 200SE are DESIGNED for use with an 80Hz crossover.

Another much better option than the SuperZeros (at least for the critical front 3) are the NHT SuperOnes. Just a little bit bigger but you get a nice 6.5" woofer that supposedly goes down to 55Hz. Amazon has them for just around a C-note apiece, best bang for your buck around right now. I'd definitely take a SuperOne over the SuperCenter.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #19 of 31 Old 09-08-2019, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Unfortunately, even though I'd love to try some of the other options suggested, I'm severely limited by the 7-3/8" depth of the mantle. I could rebuild it. But would rather not. (And wife isn't excited about that option either, since she knows that likely means all of the speakers would be bigger than what we have now.)

Looks like the only JBL Studio bookshelf that would fit is the A120. But then the A125C center is too deep. Would rather try the SuperOne instead of the SuperZero up front, and even add the Fluance Signature Series to the mix. But both are too deep.

Not sure that I like the freq response on the NHT that was posted earlier. Trying to avoid the smiley face, especially that 10-20K boost. Would really like to try something that is more flat, or preferably rolls off on the top. (I'm not an expert. But I think that suppression of the mids and boosting of the treble is what bothers me about the Def Techs now. )

Man, it really sucks having these space constraints!

Looks like I need to try the RSL CG-23 and Ascend 200SE. (Should maybe throw ML Motion 4i/8i into the mix too?) If I do an in-house demo, I'd like to try as many options as possible at the same time.
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post #20 of 31 Old 09-08-2019, 04:43 PM
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NHT Media Center is 5.5 inches deep
https://www.amazon.com/NHT-Media-Cen.../dp/B019C5LUP2

The front speakers are 5 inches deep .... you can bypass the Atmos module
https://www.nhthifi.com/products/165...-speaker#specs

I would put these on a short list ... these are higher end compared to the Super series

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post #21 of 31 Old 09-08-2019, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason4606 View Post
Trying to avoid the smiley face, especially that 10-20K boost. Would really like to try something that is more flat, or preferably rolls off on the top. (I'm not an expert. But I think that suppression of the mids and boosting of the treble is what bothers me about the Def Techs now. )
Yep, Def Tech critics (myself included) cite that exact same reason.

If you want ruler flat neutrality then Ascend is the surest bet by far. Look at their detailed specs/measurements on their website. Very very few manufacturers at any pricepoint are so transparent and forthcoming.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #22 of 31 Old 09-19-2019, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I got a little sidetracked on another Great Deal for new speakers in our converted spare BR/theater room! But just before that, I did a quick head-to-head comparison between the Def Tech PM1000 and ML Motion 4i at BestBuy.

Neither blew me away. I thought the 4i's were more forward / less boxy in mids, and smoother up top. But they didn't seem to have the bass extension as the Def Techs. I doubt they will crossover below 100Hz, probably 110-120Hz if I had to guess. Am I off base?

I'm hoping to hear a drastic improvement over the Def Techs. But that might not be possible due to the physics of tiny speakers.

Leaning hard toward the Ascend 200SE now. I really like the specs, especially the small size with dual drivers. But also thinking about the NHT MS for LCR, with SuperZero surround. And might still try the ML Motion 4i's and 8i center at home.

What about the PSB P3, or KLH Ames? (Neither of their center channel speakers will fit. Would have to turn one on its side.) Should either of these or anything else be in the mix? Thanks!
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post #23 of 31 Old 09-20-2019, 05:15 AM
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Check out the PSB P3

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post #24 of 31 Old 09-22-2019, 11:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Found a used pair of NHT Media Series satellites that are on the way. Will probably order a pair of Ascend 200SE's too.

What about the Dayton MK442 and MK402X? I like the low freq response, size and price. But not sure about the low sensitivity and 4 ohm rating with my older Denon 2312CI.
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post #25 of 31 Old 09-27-2019, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Still waiting on the NHT MS satellites to be delivered. But I got a great deal through Amazon Warehouse Deals on an NHT Media Series Center, and it showed up today!

I haven't run Audyssey yet, just turned it off to do a quick A-B comparison with the Def Tech ProCenter 2000. (I installed the MS center upside down since it's sitting back from the edge on the mantel, to get the tweeter higher and hopefully avoid some reflection. Guess that's OK?) First impressions:

It is less efficient. I had to go from -3.5dB up to -0.5dB to match the output. (per my ears not a dB meter) But it has MUCH more detail, even at lower volume.

The NHT MS center has none of the cupped hands/out of a box sound of the Def Tech. I thought the Def Tech was a good speaker... But this is Much more forward and clear! (My Wife even commented walking through the room that she could hear the dialog better.)

It seems to have better dispersion too. Off-center clarity and imaging is better. Listening off-axis was a struggle before.

The NHT MS has less bass than the Def Tech. But some of that may have been bloated output from the Def Tech. Male voices still sound natural and full. This isn't necessarily a negative. But will wait to see what Audyssey says about the size and recommended crossover freq when I run it for the front 3.

I can't wait to get the sats to try the whole L/C/R set!

The SuperZeros are SuperCheap. Wondering if I should go ahead and buy 4 for height and surround? I have the ProMonitor 1000's now that I can use. But if the SuperZero's are even close to as good as these, I think I'd be crazy not to spend ~$240 for 4!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason4606 View Post
The NHT MS center has none of the cupped hands/out of a box sound of the Def Tech. I thought the Def Tech was a good speaker... But this is Much more forward and clear! (My Wife even commented walking through the room that she could hear the dialog better.) It seems to have better dispersion too. Off-center clarity and imaging is better. Listening off-axis was a struggle before.

The NHT MS has less bass than the Def Tech. But some of that may have been bloated output from the Def Tech. Male voices still sound natural and full. This isn't necessarily a negative. But will wait to see what Audyssey says about the size and recommended crossover freq when I run it for the front 3.
You're far from alone: A lot of people, mainly newbies, easily get seduced by the catchy and impressive-sounding DT name, pretty cabinets, and smiley-shaped EQ curve (artificially boosted lows & highs) of most Def Tech speakers, especially if they are coming from an HTIB or built-in TV speakers.

PS. Audyssey is far from infallible, in fact half the time it screws up and does more harm than good. Always use it more as a STARTING POINT, and then manually tweak the settings to suit YOUR taste.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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Now, get a pair of the CG23s in house and compare. Free to return so no out-of-pocket expense. I think you will find that the superior bass response will win you over, vs the NHT. I'd be sure to test the crossover point with the NHT speakers, so you don't end up at 100 Hz again, and only solve half of the problem.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

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post #28 of 31 Old 10-05-2019, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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NHT MS Center crossed over at 60Hz, and MS Satellites at 80Hz per Audyssey. This pretty much matches what I expected from NHT's published info... The center should have a little more bass extension than the satellite. But 60Hz might be stretching the center to the edge of its response curve. I might end bumping it up to 80Hz too. But going to keep listening as is for now.

I have the smaller Mirage S10 sub in the alcove behind the TV, and larger S12 in front right corner of the room. I wasn't sure how this would work. But I really like how the smaller sub helps fill the front soundstage. I've manually adjusted the output of both, and like the way they work together. But do wish my receiver would allow Audyssey adjustments for the two subs independently.

The SuperZeros have nearly doubled in price on Amazon. Not going to spend $100 each for them. But will keep looking for deals. I have also found some used SB-1's for sale. They're a little bigger than the SZ. But still small enough.

I wonder if the SB-1 would be a good choice for surrounds and height? They have 5.25" drivers that are spec'd to reach down to 68Hz. So guessing they will easily cross at 80Hz like the MS satellites. Thinking that the similar 5.25" drivers would be a better match than the SuperZeros too. Any thoughts on the SZ vs. SB-1?
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post #29 of 31 Old 10-05-2019, 12:31 PM
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I would go with the SB1 -- the SuperZero can sound thin at times, and I would not pay $100 each for the SuperZero

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post #30 of 31 Old Yesterday, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I got the SB1's for height and surround. Question now is where to put the surrounds. Main listening is on the Right side, in the recliner and end of the adjacent sofa. I think Dolby says 2-3' above ear level. So I should probably move them. Considering 3 options: (unless there is something I'm missing)

1) I can leave the Right on the iron/granite table, and either leave the Left on the wood table or put it on a stand closer to the wall. Probably not optimal, but easy.

2) I can mount them on the walls pointing at each other above ear level. But to keep them the same height, they would be a little in front of the recliner. (because of the open doorway on the Left) Left would be above the light switch where the picture is now, and right would be between the curtain and wood wall art thingy.

3) Or I could mount them higher in the corners aiming down and forward. Left would need to be above the open doorway, so Right would be at the same height.

Any thoughts before I start drilling holes and running wire?

Thanks!!
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