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post #1 of 45 Old 09-03-2019, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Entry Polk to High end Klipsch (or other) - upgrade worth it?

Hi all. Currently I have this 5.1 setup:

Onkyo TX-NR708 7.2 Channel Receiver (HDMI 1.4a) (2010 or 2011 model)
Polk Audio Monitor 70 Series II pair ($400)
Polk Audio CS350-LS Center (unknown value)
Polk Audio Monitor 40 Series II pair for rears ($200-ish?)
Klipsch Subwoofer (cheap, small model from Costco years ago - forgot model - maybe $100 bucks)

///

This thread is not about pricing its about a total ballpark cost out of pocket and if its worth it. I don't full understand the forum rules for what can be said on pricing but I dont think this violates, my point is simply to figure out what to buy and if its worth it.

Considering an upgrade. I haven't done much research. Here is what I am considering, but I am very open:

** I CANNOT DO IN CEILING SPEAKERS ** - I am in a rental. Not gonna happen. I promise I'll upgrade when I can

$750 Marantz 6013 Refurb (or a Denon X4500H refurb/sale)
$820 Klipsch RP-6000F Front Tower Pair, Refurb
$520 Klipsch RP-504c Center Channel, Refurb
$400 Klipsch RP-500SA Atmos Upwards Pair, new
$400 Klipsch RP-140D Surround Pair, New
$780 HSU ULS-15 MK2 Subwoofer, Sale Price


TOTAL: ~$3700 ballpark

I would try to go refurb and used to keep cost down. I would want to sell my old gear to offset cost, but I don't know what I could expect on craigslist. Maybe $500 for all of it?

////

Questions:

1. Is this worth it over my existing setup? Should I hear a night and day difference?

2. Is this a good sweet spot to maximize my bang for buck? I'll be annoyed if I learn that, hey, you could have spent $1000 more and it would have been a HUGE jump up.

3. I am open to other brands outside of Klipsch.

4. Can I run Atmos with front height channel speakers wall mounted? I'd do this instead of upward firing if recommended, as long as its still object based Atmos. Can I do both?

5. Thoughts on that HSU subwoofer? It seems overly pricey. Is there a better 80/20 buy?

My main thing is this: I want to ride the 80/20 rule, with a slight upward push into the high end (I'll absord a little of that dimishing return to eek out a hair or two more). But I'm trying to find the sweet spot in my spending here.

Why I am upgrading - I'm sick of ARC due to no 4K HDR passthrough on my receiver. My new rental home has a less ideal room setup for speaker placement and I want the better Room Correction software on the receiver. And I really want to add Dolby Atmos, even if I can only do upward firing. I also need to replace my Monitor 40s, they are way too big, I need smaller, discreet speakers in the new space to please the Mrs. and make the layout work. Hence my thoughts on the 140D speakers.

And finally, because this was an entry level setup like 10 years ago and I'm overdue. All this chatter here got my wheels turning, so screw it, lets do this.


Ok. Help me out, if you're willing What do I buy?


If you need to see my room layout - it is here. This thread and all you enthusiasts here broke me. I wasn't going to upgrade everything. Now I am. LOL.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...orth-room.html
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post #2 of 45 Old 09-03-2019, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filmguy123 View Post
Hi all. Currently I have this 5.1 setup:

Onkyo TX-NR708 7.2 Channel Receiver (HDMI 1.4a) (2010 or 2011 model)
Polk Audio Monitor 70 Series II pair ($400)
Polk Audio CS350-LS Center (unknown value)
Polk Audio Monitor 40 Series II pair for rears ($200-ish?)
Klipsch Subwoofer (cheap, small model from Costco years ago - forgot model - maybe $100 bucks)

///

This thread is not about pricing its about a total ballpark cost out of pocket and if its worth it. I don't full understand the forum rules for what can be said on pricing but I dont think this violates, my point is simply to figure out what to buy and if its worth it.

Considering an upgrade. I haven't done much research. Here is what I am considering, but I am very open:

** I CANNOT DO IN CEILING SPEAKERS ** - I am in a rental. Not gonna happen. I promise I'll upgrade when I can

$750 Marantz 6013 Refurb (or a Denon X4500H refurb/sale)
$820 Klipsch RP-6000F Front Tower Pair, Refurb
$520 Klipsch RP-504c Center Channel, Refurb
$400 Klipsch RP-500SA Atmos Upwards Pair, new
$400 Klipsch RP-140D Surround Pair, New
$780 HSU ULS-15 MK2 Subwoofer, Sale Price


TOTAL: ~$3700 ballpark

I would try to go refurb and used to keep cost down. I would want to sell my old gear to offset cost, but I don't know what I could expect on craigslist. Maybe $500 for all of it?

////

Questions:

1. Is this worth it over my existing setup? Should I hear a night and day difference?

2. Is this a good sweet spot to maximize my bang for buck? I'll be annoyed if I learn that, hey, you could have spent $1000 more and it would have been a HUGE jump up.

3. I am open to other brands outside of Klipsch.

4. Can I run Atmos with front height channel speakers wall mounted? I'd do this instead of upward firing if recommended, as long as its still object based Atmos. Can I do both?

5. Thoughts on that HSU subwoofer? It seems overly pricey. Is there a better 80/20 buy?

My main thing is this: I want to ride the 80/20 rule, with a slight upward push into the high end (I'll absord a little of that dimishing return to eek out a hair or two more). But I'm trying to find the sweet spot in my spending here.

Why I am upgrading - I'm sick of ARC due to no 4K HDR passthrough on my receiver. My new rental home has a less ideal room setup for speaker placement and I want the better Room Correction software on the receiver. And I really want to add Dolby Atmos, even if I can only do upward firing. I also need to replace my Monitor 40s, they are way too big, I need smaller, discreet speakers in the new space to please the Mrs. and make the layout work. Hence my thoughts on the 140D speakers.

And finally, because this was an entry level setup like 10 years ago and I'm overdue. All this chatter here got my wheels turning, so screw it, lets do this.


Ok. Help me out, if you're willing What do I buy?


If you need to see my room layout - it is here. This thread and all you enthusiasts here broke me. I wasn't going to upgrade everything. Now I am. LOL.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...orth-room.html
A few years ago I started with Polk.... upgraded all the way up to Klipsch RF7ii's and RC64ii (at the time they were the best RF speakers from Klipsch). I liked my polks but it was a big upgrade when I finally got to the RF7/RC64 combo... The RC64 was a massive improvement from any other center channel I ever heard.

After all that and 3 kids later I need the floor space and went with all Klipsch in wall speakers with the front 3 being the THX8000L's. I'm very happy and I think you will be too. I would say try to upgrade 1 thing at a time. Not only will you be able to compare the differences better but you may decide you have more cash to spend if you do it slowly over a couple years.

Projector:Epson 6050ub Screen:Elite screens manual SRM Pro series 120" TV: Vizio P75f Pre/Pro:Marantz AV7705 Amplifier:Monolith 7x and Emotiva A-700 for ATMOSSpeakers:Klipsch THX8000-L (LCR) R5800 side surrounds, 5650-S rear surrounds Klipsch 5800-C for ATMOSSubwoofers:PSA v1811x2 Bluray Player:Panasonic ub820 Media Streamer:Fire TV cube
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post #3 of 45 Old 09-03-2019, 06:45 PM
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Adorama has Polk LSI series on sale quite often. upgrade the front 3, move your best speakers to surround duty. Keep your AVR for now.

Vinyl, tape, digital... I don't care as long as I can listen to my music...
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post #4 of 45 Old 09-03-2019, 07:28 PM
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Klipsch RP should definitely be night and day vs the Polk Monitors.

Your list looks to be a great one. I’d say there’s not much that can be hugely upgraded/downgraded for best value.

Make sure you find a dealer to cut you a discount on Klipsch RP.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #5 of 45 Old 09-03-2019, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filmguy123 View Post
Questions:

1. Is this worth it over my existing setup? Should I hear a night and day difference?

2. Is this a good sweet spot to maximize my bang for buck? I'll be annoyed if I learn that, hey, you could have spent $1000 more and it would have been a HUGE jump up.

3. I am open to other brands outside of Klipsch.

4. Can I run Atmos with front height channel speakers wall mounted? I'd do this instead of upward firing if recommended, as long as its still object based Atmos. Can I do both?

5. Thoughts on that HSU subwoofer? It seems overly pricey. Is there a better 80/20 buy?



Ok. Help me out, if you're willing What do I buy?


If you need to see my room layout - it is here. This thread and all you enthusiasts here broke me. I wasn't going to upgrade everything. Now I am. LOL.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...orth-room.html
1. It should be an improvement, but if money is tight which for most it is, the upgrades that will make the most difference are the sub and maybe a new center channel speaker.

2. You're in a price bracket where there's just not going to be a huge jump for $1K.

3. Chane, Emotiva speakers get rave reviews around here and both are well priced. Not sure about the current availability for either. And IMO neither are great looking and the Emotive are particularly ugly if aesthetics matter. Also Ascend Acoustics has great speakers in your price range. Many other speakers of course but the ones I mentioned are pretty popular at their price points.

4. Actually front/height Atmos speaker location is much better than up firing. Nearly as good as in ceiling from several reviews I've seen. Can you do both? As in use up firing and front heights? That would be no if they're both in front. You can use up firing for the rear Atmos with the front height Atmos, not sure if it would be worth it though.

5. For mostly HT use a ported sub would likely be better, something like the HSU VTF3.5 which can be run in sealed mode if you want, though that negates the advantage of having a big ported sub.

You can't really go wrong with Klipsch RP speakers for HT.

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Onkyo RZ820
Roku Ultra, Apple TV, Sharp 70" Quattron
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post #6 of 45 Old 09-03-2019, 08:14 PM
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post #7 of 45 Old 09-04-2019, 01:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Aesthetics are very important - I'll just say that as it pertains to some of those brands.

I saw the Polk LSiM 707 are on sale for $1098 for the *pair* ... that's 73% of the MSRP. It does look like these sales happen a couple times a year, but this one seems a little extra low and like a pretty great deal.

If I will not / cannot do better than the LSiM 707 Pair for $1098, perhaps I should do that?

So question - what do you think of the top end LSiM line from Polk vs Klipsch, Martin Logan, or even some of the other links above (Chane, Emotivia, etc.) that sound great (but maybe don't look great)? Again, aesthetics are important too.

I also don't want to be beholden to something just because of a deal. There are always deals. So, I still want to get the speakers that I want. Period.

One big problem with the LSiM speakers - I want my center to match of course. But I have the BDI entertainment console which has the middle center channel drawer to hide the speaker. Which I love. And so does the Mrs. So I really want to use this for aesthetics, clean look, etc.

One major drawback to going LSiM is that it won't fit the center channel from the LSiM line! Bummer! Not the 706c, would be my choice, or even the backup 704c which is still too tall. Only problem is height - the BDI can fit up to 7.25" high - exceeded slightly by the 7.75" tall 704c, and greatly by the 9" tall 706c. UGH!!!

I know how critical it is for the center to match.

Thoughts?

Regarding use case. 90%-95% Home Theater (movies, games, TV). 5%-10% Music. When I do music, its more background music while I'm hanging out. I'm not an audiophile music listener. Although, the Mrs. loves classical music so I'm sure she would appreciate the high fidelity. My point is, my intended use case is movies, games, high end TV primarily.

Last edited by filmguy123; 09-04-2019 at 02:00 AM.
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post #8 of 45 Old 09-04-2019, 01:31 AM - Thread Starter
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UPDATE

Looking closely, I can pull the drawer off of my BDI Avion to get a total height of about 8.25".

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-nG9bXB...IaAnnyEALw_wcB

Not ideal as it leaves it less tidy, but technically workable. But even so, only fits for the lower end 704c. Still can't fit the 706c.

Maybe the LSiM series isn't the best pick for a full matched system that works with my furniture. I assume other high end centers may fit into a 6.5" height limit, or is that asking too much? This bums me out because from all else I see, a pair of LSiM look incredibly good in the room and are a smoking deal at $1100 for the pair.

Or, maybe its such a good deal that I should get the 704c anyway and match it with the 707, just pulling the drawer off my BDI to accomodate?

OORRR... I have the older C350-LS Polk center. Maybe that would work, even though its old? Same brand... but... probably a stretch, right? (It was their high end model way back when).

// ANOTHER POINT -- These LSiM 707 seem like they have really great low frequency and bass. I like that, but is it so necessary if one is planning to have high quality sub(s) as well?

// ANOTHER POINT -- The Klipsch top end center will fit into my furniture piece just fine

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post #9 of 45 Old 09-04-2019, 03:18 AM - Thread Starter
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and... (sorry)...

Would the Marantz receiver even have enough power to handle the LSiM 707, a center, and a handful of surrounds/atmos? And a sub? Or 2?

I am just wondering if going for something is huge as the 707 would also necessitate more power and hardware to drive, those driving up costs/complexity?

Vizio PX75 75" 2019 Quantum X | 5.1.2 Klipsch RP280FA, 504c, 500SA as surround | Denon x4500H w/Aircom T8| BDI Avion Triple Wide | PS4 Pro, ATV 4K, LG UHD Player
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post #10 of 45 Old 09-04-2019, 05:00 AM - Thread Starter
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I read elsewhere that many seemed to think the LSiM 707 was under represented on paper to sell more safely, and they found the speakers didnt come to life unless using a dedicated power amp. A monoprice monolith is $1100. I guess I could add it later, if I went that route. Good to know I'd be fine without it though, if not less than ideal. I assume still a huge upgrade from Monitor 70s while I waited to someday power it up with an amp...

I could do a matching center with the 704c, I'd just have to remove my hidden compartment on the BDI Avion and expose it... which isn't the worst... just wish I could keep it hidden. So not ideal. The truly matching premium 706c is out, though. Not sure how much that really matters anyway, they are both timber matched, the 704c appears to just be less powerful (706c may be overkill - but it is a bummer to not have the best when the cost is so low on sale). On the flip, one huge plus is how insanely good the 707 look aesthetically as well. So many reviews rave that they compete with $10k speakers, etc.

I think the original Klipsch system also seems nice, but then, it seems crazy to spend so much on the RP-8000F vs that deal on the LSiM 707. It makes the Klipsch 8000F look both lower end and more expensive.

I haven't listened to either and I don't know if I'll even have a place locally to be able to get those high end models together for a listen...
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post #11 of 45 Old 09-04-2019, 05:43 AM
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take that budget and get 2 awesome subs and an avr with room correction like dirac live/audyssey

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
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post #12 of 45 Old 09-04-2019, 08:03 AM
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I would wait till the shopping season get's going, Crutchfield just had the Klipsch RP8000F on sale @ $479ea, and they are far better than the Polk's. Both brands run sale's pretty often as do many of their retailers like Crutchfield.

The first thing I would upgrade is the Receiver, you can get very good deals on Amazon for the Denon X4400H, or the Marantz 6013, both can be had for under $900.
Next get a good Sub, HSU, Rythmic, or Monolith THX, all have good sales headed into the shopping season.

after you got those 2 thinks out of the way, upgrade your front 3 and always hold out for the sales.....Consider a sold pair of Bookshelf speakers with a matching center, that paired with a great sub will give you that movie theater experience.

Sony 75X900F / MediaLight Quad 6500K
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post #13 of 45 Old 09-04-2019, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filmguy123 View Post
Hi all. Currently I have this 5.1 setup:

Onkyo TX-NR708 7.2 Channel Receiver (HDMI 1.4a) (2010 or 2011 model)
Polk Audio Monitor 70 Series II pair ($400)
Polk Audio CS350-LS Center (unknown value)
Polk Audio Monitor 40 Series II pair for rears ($200-ish?)
Klipsch Subwoofer (cheap, small model from Costco years ago - forgot model - maybe $100 bucks)

///

This thread is not about pricing its about a total ballpark cost out of pocket and if its worth it. I don't full understand the forum rules for what can be said on pricing but I dont think this violates, my point is simply to figure out what to buy and if its worth it.

Considering an upgrade. I haven't done much research. Here is what I am considering, but I am very open:

** I CANNOT DO IN CEILING SPEAKERS ** - I am in a rental. Not gonna happen. I promise I'll upgrade when I can

$750 Marantz 6013 Refurb (or a Denon X4500H refurb/sale)
$820 Klipsch RP-6000F Front Tower Pair, Refurb
$520 Klipsch RP-504c Center Channel, Refurb
$400 Klipsch RP-500SA Atmos Upwards Pair, new
$400 Klipsch RP-140D Surround Pair, New
$780 HSU ULS-15 MK2 Subwoofer, Sale Price


TOTAL: ~$3700 ballpark

I would try to go refurb and used to keep cost down. I would want to sell my old gear to offset cost, but I don't know what I could expect on craigslist. Maybe $500 for all of it?

////

Questions:

1. Is this worth it over my existing setup? Should I hear a night and day difference?

2. Is this a good sweet spot to maximize my bang for buck? I'll be annoyed if I learn that, hey, you could have spent $1000 more and it would have been a HUGE jump up.

3. I am open to other brands outside of Klipsch.

4. Can I run Atmos with front height channel speakers wall mounted? I'd do this instead of upward firing if recommended, as long as its still object based Atmos. Can I do both?

5. Thoughts on that HSU subwoofer? It seems overly pricey. Is there a better 80/20 buy?

My main thing is this: I want to ride the 80/20 rule, with a slight upward push into the high end (I'll absord a little of that dimishing return to eek out a hair or two more). But I'm trying to find the sweet spot in my spending here.

Why I am upgrading - I'm sick of ARC due to no 4K HDR passthrough on my receiver. My new rental home has a less ideal room setup for speaker placement and I want the better Room Correction software on the receiver. And I really want to add Dolby Atmos, even if I can only do upward firing. I also need to replace my Monitor 40s, they are way too big, I need smaller, discreet speakers in the new space to please the Mrs. and make the layout work. Hence my thoughts on the 140D speakers.

And finally, because this was an entry level setup like 10 years ago and I'm overdue. All this chatter here got my wheels turning, so screw it, lets do this.


Ok. Help me out, if you're willing What do I buy?


If you need to see my room layout - it is here. This thread and all you enthusiasts here broke me. I wasn't going to upgrade everything. Now I am. LOL.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...orth-room.html
You better like the Klipsch horn signature before dropping that much on them. Can you demo them first?
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post #14 of 45 Old 09-04-2019, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
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You better like the Klipsch horn signature before dropping that much on them. Can you demo them first?
I agree you should try and demo any speakers you plan to purchase, but I can tell you first hand (demoed) as a Klipsch owner, the RP8000F are a much improved speaker over my RF 82 II, they are much less bright, and have a better over all sound to them from top to bottom. The high's were crisp (no harshness) the mids were smooth, and the low end had a fuller sound. It was hard not to walk out with a set right their on the spot!
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post #15 of 45 Old 09-04-2019, 10:47 AM
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The JBL 590s are on sale right now for $499 each, and the 520 center for about $180 at the JBL site.
Those are good speakers too.
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Vinyl, tape, digital... I don't care as long as I can listen to my music...
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post #16 of 45 Old 09-04-2019, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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As an aside, I don't need to do Receiver first, then subs, then eventually front 3. I am able to do it all at once right now, so the main thing that might dictate "order" is if I need to spring quick on any great deals.

But, surprisingly, it doesn't sound like anyone thinks the $1100 pair of LSiM 707s are a "must have"? From some of what I read it made it sound like they are $10k speaker pair priced at $4k MSRP on sale for $1k.

Yet, seeing here the 8000F (cheaper by MSRP by a long shot) being recommended OVER them - as well as JBL and others? Hmm.

As well, any thoughts on the 704c vs 706c predicament in light of both going 1 step down, and furniture? Am I overthinking the aesthetics of removing the center drawer on the BDI Avion? Or was this question bypassed because the conesus is don't bother with the LSiM, I can do better once shopping season hits anyway?

Thanks everyone. Sorry for any redundant questions! Appreciate the help.

Vizio PX75 75" 2019 Quantum X | 5.1.2 Klipsch RP280FA, 504c, 500SA as surround | Denon x4500H w/Aircom T8| BDI Avion Triple Wide | PS4 Pro, ATV 4K, LG UHD Player
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post #17 of 45 Old 09-04-2019, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filmguy123 View Post
As an aside, I don't need to do Receiver first, then subs, then eventually front 3. I am able to do it all at once right now, so the main thing that might dictate "order" is if I need to spring quick on any great deals.

But, surprisingly, it doesn't sound like anyone thinks the $1100 pair of LSiM 707s are a "must have"? From some of what I read it made it sound like they are $10k speaker pair priced at $4k MSRP on sale for $1k.

Yet, seeing here the 8000F (cheaper by MSRP by a long shot) being recommended OVER them - as well as JBL and others? Hmm.

As well, any thoughts on the 704c vs 706c predicament in light of both going 1 step down, and furniture? Am I overthinking the aesthetics of removing the center drawer on the BDI Avion? Or was this question bypassed because the conesus is don't bother with the LSiM, I can do better once shopping season hits anyway?

Thanks everyone. Sorry for any redundant questions! Appreciate the help.
The LSiM line is very good and if you go that way am sure you will be very happy. I'd go with the 706C with the larger 6.5" drivers. Measure tho as it is big. Adorama was out of the 704C's. Polk is coming out with a new top of the line so probably why such steep discount on LSiM line.
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post #18 of 45 Old 09-04-2019, 11:34 AM
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Stick with the Klipsch speakers, you will not regret it. I have the RF7 III's front towers and matching center and will never replace those. It's the internet's job, this forum in particular, to throw thousands of other options at you besides what you wanted instead of just telling you, yeah, that's a good choice stick with it and be happy.
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post #19 of 45 Old 09-04-2019, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
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What do you think of the RP-280FA (vs the RP-8000Fs I had listed, or the RF7 IIIs)?

Here's the thing - I don't know if I really wanted the Klipsch. I haven't heard them. And I just made a bunch of calls. I can't find anyone around here that has good Klipsch's for demo. Nor can I find anyone that has the LSiMs to demo (not surprising, they are on closeout). So I'm totally flying blind and I don't even know what I really like.

All I can go by is the repeated advice of how Klipschs with horn design have incredible clarity that makes them awesome and superior for home theater use (which I only plan to do music like 5%-10% and not critically at that). They also require less power to get the most from them. So boom.

But then the 707s, which are lauded as perhaps the most neutral, faithful speakers up there with the greats. No fake feeling clarity - traditional design. The superior choice for music, and also still wonderful for home theater. I can use them today with a good AV receiver, but I can look forward to a black friday external amp someday to really make them scream. And they look beautiful. But they dont garner the praise for home theater that Klipsch does.

With Klipsch, their RP-440c center will fit just fine into my BDI Avion cabinet - with a nice, wide dispersion pattern. With the 704c, I have to pull the drawer off, which works, but leaves it exposed (not ideal). But then the towers look a lot better themselves, really impressive. The Klipsch have more matching surround speaker options, the Polk not so much - but then mix/matching surround/atmos channels isn't as important, and I might want to go Martin Logan 2i/4i, or SVS sides, etc. anyway.

One thing that gets me is "perceived" value. The MSRP on the 707s is $4000/pair. The RP-280FA is $2000/pair. So even if I could get the 280FA at the exact same price as LSiM 707s, I'd feel it was half the deal. That's probably a bad way of thinking though, I should go with what I like.

Except I don't know I like. I can't even listen. LOL!

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post #20 of 45 Old 09-04-2019, 12:18 PM
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What do you think of the RP-280FA (vs the RP-8000Fs I had listed, or the RF7 IIIs)?

Here's the thing - I don't know if I really wanted the Klipsch. I haven't heard them. And I just made a bunch of calls. I can't find anyone around here that has good Klipsch's for demo. Nor can I find anyone that has the LSiMs to demo (not surprising, they are on closeout). So I'm totally flying blind and I don't even know what I really like.

All I can go by is the repeated advice of how Klipschs with horn design have incredible clarity that makes them awesome and superior for home theater use (which I only plan to do music like 5%-10% and not critically at that). They also require less power to get the most from them. So boom.

But then the 707s, which are lauded as perhaps the most neutral, faithful speakers up there with the greats. No fake feeling clarity - traditional design. The superior choice for music, and also still wonderful for home theater. I can use them today with a good AV receiver, but I can look forward to a black friday external amp someday to really make them scream. And they look beautiful. But they dont garner the praise for home theater that Klipsch does.

With Klipsch, their RP-440c center will fit just fine into my BDI Avion cabinet - with a nice, wide dispersion pattern. With the 704c, I have to pull the drawer off, which works, but leaves it exposed (not ideal). But then the towers look a lot better themselves, really impressive. The Klipsch have more matching surround speaker options, the Polk not so much - but then mix/matching surround/atmos channels isn't as important, and I might want to go Martin Logan 2i/4i, or SVS sides, etc. anyway.

One thing that gets me is "perceived" value. The MSRP on the 707s is $4000/pair. The RP-280FA is $2000/pair. So even if I could get the 280FA at the exact same price as LSiM 707s, I'd feel it was half the deal. That's probably a bad way of thinking though, I should go with what I like.

Except I don't know I like. I can't even listen. LOL!
Klipsch RP is a solid choice.

Why can't you listen/audition; where are you located?

Geoff A. J., California
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post #21 of 45 Old 09-04-2019, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by filmguy123 View Post
What do you think of the RP-280FA (vs the RP-8000Fs I had listed, or the RF7 IIIs)?

Here's the thing - I don't know if I really wanted the Klipsch. I haven't heard them. And I just made a bunch of calls. I can't find anyone around here that has good Klipsch's for demo. Nor can I find anyone that has the LSiMs to demo (not surprising, they are on closeout). So I'm totally flying blind and I don't even know what I really like.

All I can go by is the repeated advice of how Klipschs with horn design have incredible clarity that makes them awesome and superior for home theater use (which I only plan to do music like 5%-10% and not critically at that). They also require less power to get the most from them. So boom.

But then the 707s, which are lauded as perhaps the most neutral, faithful speakers up there with the greats. No fake feeling clarity - traditional design. The superior choice for music, and also still wonderful for home theater. I can use them today with a good AV receiver, but I can look forward to a black friday external amp someday to really make them scream. And they look beautiful. But they dont garner the praise for home theater that Klipsch does.

With Klipsch, their RP-440c center will fit just fine into my BDI Avion cabinet - with a nice, wide dispersion pattern. With the 704c, I have to pull the drawer off, which works, but leaves it exposed (not ideal). But then the towers look a lot better themselves, really impressive. The Klipsch have more matching surround speaker options, the Polk not so much - but then mix/matching surround/atmos channels isn't as important, and I might want to go Martin Logan 2i/4i, or SVS sides, etc. anyway.

One thing that gets me is "perceived" value. The MSRP on the 707s is $4000/pair. The RP-280FA is $2000/pair. So even if I could get the 280FA at the exact same price as LSiM 707s, I'd feel it was half the deal. That's probably a bad way of thinking though, I should go with what I like.

Except I don't know I like. I can't even listen. LOL!
Matching surrounds isn't an issue if music isn't your focus. If you were going to be listening to multi-channel music a lot (SACD, DVD-A, Blu-ray audio) then the matching surrounds is more of an issue.

I have a buddy with Wilson Watt Puppies and the LSiM 707s and he says that the 707s are 90% as good as the Wilson Watts. (those are like, $20k speakers [I think])

I've been using Klipsch RF-3 towers, RS-3 surrounds, and RC-3 center speakers for 20 years. They do sound great, but I'll be going to the LSiMs soon.

The Polks, The JBL 590s, and the RP Klipsh are all great speakers. really hard to go wrong w/any of them.

Vinyl, tape, digital... I don't care as long as I can listen to my music...
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post #22 of 45 Old 09-04-2019, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Portland, OR. Maybe there's a shop I'm not seeing - I hope so!! Please advise. I was surprised, not even Fry's had them. Ugh.

I talked to Adorama on the phone. The rep sounded very knowledgeable. He said something like this:

- He loves Klipsch. Doesn't think the new ones sound harsh. He says the Klipsch sounds like it has better detail and clarity BECAUSE they require so much less power to drive them. But, the LSiM 707s actually have superior Mids and Highs even compared against the RF7 III. The Polk's seperated mid/high really helps that (2 bass, 1 mid, 1 high). He thought in general, the high end polks are better on mids than the Klipsch. But both great.

- He said the trick is the LSiM 707 won't sound like that have as much clarity as the Klipsch unless you power them up with a good external amplifier, because they need more power to make them truly shine on that level. Whereas Klipsch, you can really get away without an amp. But if I hook up an amp to the LSiM 707, nothing will beat them anywhere close to that price.

- In light of this, he said its the price of the LSiM 707 that swings the deal. If I was comparing $3600 set of RF7 III to a $4000 set of LSiM 707, of course the Klipsch. They will sound better for theater out of the box with excellent clarity, no amp needed. Even the 280FA or 8000F sound so good out of box. Big crowd pleasers. And the value. But the $1100 LSiM 707 pair changes the game a bit. Because now I can add an amplifier at black friday or used or something, and for under ~$2000 I could be SMOKING the RF-7 III. So even if those were on sale for 50% off ($1800) I'd still have a better value with the Polk LSiM 707 + Amplifier setup.

Agree/Disagree?
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post #23 of 45 Old 09-04-2019, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Also:

He said one thing he liked about the Klipsch center channel is that wide dispersion with the 4 across, really feels like a wider sweet spot. I really like that! I also love how it would fit into my BDI Avion speaker drawer, tucked away and unexposed. So that's all a plus.

Regarding the 704c center vs the 706c center, he said the 706c is better but it is a beast. And the biggest advantage is more power in the deeper freqencies. But that with 707s and a good sub, I'd probably hardly even notice any improvement of the 706c. Essentially, that the 704c was awesome and no slouch and the 706c's big advantages start to dissipiate in light of an otherwise well designed theater system with 707s and sub.

He said that sure, I'd need to pull off the drawer on my BDI to let the 704 sit in the cabinet exposed... but it's probably better for the sound anyway, it's a clearer/cleaner shot to listener and he probably wouldn't recommend the hidden compartment for best audio quality anyway. He said just take the drawer off, leave it sitting open, he'd recommend that even if it would fit and hide away.

Thoughts? Agree/Disagree?
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post #24 of 45 Old 09-04-2019, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I see can also get a pair of Klipsch RP-280FA for $800. They are the older version of the RP-8000FA. They have the upward firing Atmos built in. Upward firing, not ideal, but built makes it very discreet and simple. It's also optional.

One plus is that it requires no wall mounting and cabling or extra speakers for a simple atmos setup - clean, simple for the Mrs. (and the wallet). They don't need any amp to get the most from them like the 707s. So $300 less than 707s, less the need for an amp, less the immediate need for a more elaborate atmos setup... and the matching center channel would tuck into my BDI Avion and price for that would be only $300. So it's wallet friendly.

Hmmm...

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post #25 of 45 Old 09-04-2019, 05:34 PM
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Also:

He said one thing he liked about the Klipsch center channel is that wide dispersion with the 4 across, really feels like a wider sweet spot. I really like that! I also love how it would fit into my BDI Avion speaker drawer, tucked away and unexposed. So that's all a plus.

Regarding the 704c center vs the 706c center, he said the 706c is better but it is a beast. And the biggest advantage is more power in the deeper freqencies. But that with 707s and a good sub, I'd probably hardly even notice any improvement of the 706c. Essentially, that the 704c was awesome and no slouch and the 706c's big advantages start to dissipiate in light of an otherwise well designed theater system with 707s and sub.

He said that sure, I'd need to pull off the drawer on my BDI to let the 704 sit in the cabinet exposed... but it's probably better for the sound anyway, it's a clearer/cleaner shot to listener and he probably wouldn't recommend the hidden compartment for best audio quality anyway. He said just take the drawer off, leave it sitting open, he'd recommend that even if it would fit and hide away.

Thoughts? Agree/Disagree?
as much as I love my Klipsch speakers, I think you'll love those LSIM 707s. Really hard to beat.
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Vinyl, tape, digital... I don't care as long as I can listen to my music...
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post #26 of 45 Old 09-04-2019, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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My biggest concern with the 707s is that they would be impractical for my needs - just way over the top for my room size, aspirations, listening environment. I'm fine with overbuying when its such a hot deal, but the associated concern is that the speaker is beautiful but very, very large; the center requires being exposed in my console unit vs hidden away like the Klipsch; begs for an amp to really make it shine; requires more added cost and complexity to give me Atmos in any form (which I want to add).

My biggest concern with the Klipsch is that I'd be selling myself short with such a hot deal on the "better" Polks. I don't want to regret that. But I like how the Klipsch seems to occupy a very nice sweet spot of great sound, low power requirements, much simpler and more discreet (hidden center + builit in atmos -- upward firing may be a compromised, but its incredibly simple and versatile - and built into the tower would be insanely discreet). It's a much cheaper, simpler, and more discreet system.

So the big question, and I understand its hard to answer because its subjective and I should be relying on my ears (and I just can't - no dealer that I've found has this stuff here):

Is the LSiM 707 perhaps 10%-15% better than the Klipsch? Or like, night and day difference?

Because I suspect that all said and done (amp, atmos speakers, mounting, wiring, exposed center, etc.), the 707 set will be roughly twice as expensive, twice as complicated, and half as discreet in terms of room design.
So it needs to be a very big jump from the Klipsch to this - and it needs to be a jump not just for the hardcore and those blasting it in giant spaces, but for me in my living room as a quality loving but non audiophile movie watcher.

Much thanks.
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post #27 of 45 Old 09-04-2019, 08:41 PM
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I see can also get a pair of Klipsch RP-280FA for $800. They are the older version of the RP-8000FA. They have the upward firing Atmos built in. Upward firing, not ideal, but built makes it very discreet and simple. It's also optional.

One plus is that it requires no wall mounting and cabling or extra speakers for a simple atmos setup - clean, simple for the Mrs. (and the wallet). They don't need any amp to get the most from them like the 707s. So $300 less than 707s, less the need for an amp, less the immediate need for a more elaborate atmos setup... and the matching center channel would tuck into my BDI Avion and price for that would be only $300. So it's wallet friendly.

Hmmm...
If you end up with the Denon X4500H or even the Marantz 6013, I don't think there'd be any need for you to get a separate amp to drive the 707's unless you want to listen to things at ear bleeding volumes. Plus, you will have a subwoofer, set them to "small" with a crossover at 80Hz. The sub will do the heavy lifting, easing the power required to drive the 707's. Klipsch, from what I've heard, are easier to drive, but I think the Fry's guy mislead you somewhat in telling you that a second amp is needed to get the most out of the 707's.

As far as Atmos, you're probably better off going with height speakers instead of upfiring. There are clean ways of doing it where everyone is happy.

Home Theatre: Onkyo TX-NR747 | Polk Audio RTi A3 Front L/R | Polk Audio CSi A6 Centre | Polk Audio RTi A1 Surround L/R | HSU ULS-15 MK2 Subwoofer | Sony XBR55X900E | PlayStation 4 Pro | Xbox One S

Music: Cambridge Audio AXR100 | Stanton T.62 | Cambridge Audio AXC35 | KEF Q150 L/R | Elac S10EQ Subwoofer
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post #28 of 45 Old 09-05-2019, 08:42 AM
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My biggest concern with the 707s is that they would be impractical for my needs - just way over the top for my room size, aspirations, listening environment. I'm fine with overbuying when its such a hot deal, but the associated concern is that the speaker is beautiful but very, very large; the center requires being exposed in my console unit vs hidden away like the Klipsch; begs for an amp to really make it shine; requires more added cost and complexity to give me Atmos in any form (which I want to add).

My biggest concern with the Klipsch is that I'd be selling myself short with such a hot deal on the "better" Polks. I don't want to regret that. But I like how the Klipsch seems to occupy a very nice sweet spot of great sound, low power requirements, much simpler and more discreet (hidden center + builit in atmos -- upward firing may be a compromised, but its incredibly simple and versatile - and built into the tower would be insanely discreet). It's a much cheaper, simpler, and more discreet system.

So the big question, and I understand its hard to answer because its subjective and I should be relying on my ears (and I just can't - no dealer that I've found has this stuff here):

Is the LSiM 707 perhaps 10%-15% better than the Klipsch? Or like, night and day difference?

Because I suspect that all said and done (amp, atmos speakers, mounting, wiring, exposed center, etc.), the 707 set will be roughly twice as expensive, twice as complicated, and half as discreet in terms of room design.
So it needs to be a very big jump from the Klipsch to this - and it needs to be a jump not just for the hardcore and those blasting it in giant spaces, but for me in my living room as a quality loving but non audiophile movie watcher.

Much thanks.
Go for the smaller LSiM 705s then.

Vinyl, tape, digital... I don't care as long as I can listen to my music...
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post #29 of 45 Old 09-05-2019, 09:08 AM
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Go for the smaller LSiM 705s then.
That is a good idea and saves some money.

https://www.adorama.com/pkalsm705mv2...ce=rflaid62905
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post #30 of 45 Old 09-05-2019, 09:27 AM
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I don't have huge amount of experience to reference my setup against but I don't find my RP-6000f's or RP-500C harsh at all. One of the reasons I went with the new RP series over the older RP and newer Reference is I heard they mellowed out the harshness but I still wanted and like crisp bright highs that Klipsch is known for. They also look amazing.

I know they say get as big as center as possible but for your size room I think the RP-500C will be more than enough and save you a couple hundred.

It's funny how similar my setup is to the one that you listed, we must have been hitting the same articles while researching.

I love my HSU ULS-15 MK2's but was woefully under impressed while only having one. With two it's a whole new ball game.
If you only ever plan on having one sub go with a ported HSU model. If you don't mind and can fit two definitely go with the Dual Drive. It fills the room with a much fuller and hard hitting sound. I've noticed they put out a lot of sound perpendicular to the speaker face (top, right and left). So when at the front of the room you loose a lot of the bass and definitely need to be placed near field.


I'm also waiting for shopping (Black Friday) for some upgrades. Mainly either a Denon X4500H or Yamaha RX-A3080 something that can be expanded to 7.2.4. For some reason Yamaha decided to make the 2080 non 11.2 expandable.
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TV: Samsung 65" Q6FN QLED AVR:Yamaha RX-A3080 & RX-A710 running atoms Speakers: Klipsch RP-6000F(LR) Klipsch RP-500C(C) KEF Ci160.2QS(LRS) Klipsch R-51M (LRBS) Klipsch R-1800-C(Atmos) Subwoofers: Dual Dive HSU ULS-15 MK2
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