High couch back - can i go 7.1, pic included or go Heights? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 20 Old 09-06-2019, 04:28 AM - Thread Starter
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High couch back - can i go 7.1, pic included or go Heights?

-We just got a new couch, the two sides recline - but the middle doesn't as you can see in the picture.


-i will be sitting in the middle for movies. Kind of sucks how close the surrounds are now but we work with what we have. If i sit in the left seat all i can hear is the left surround, and same with the far right seat...all i can hear is the right surround loud. Is there anything i can actually do about this? When i sit in the middle its perfect...Good thing thing my wife doesn't care.


-Can i do 7.1? When the left and right seats are reclined the "back surrounds" would be fine...but that middle seat can't go down. The back surrounds should be aiming at the middle and it would hit the back of the couch. The tweeter and the woofer are even with the back, and it wouldn't go over the couch.


Is 7.1 a good option for me? I could try front heights but i'm afraid i would be disappointed after all the mounting and holes....or is it worth it? I do have a lot of Atmos movies.


Back surrounds or go front height? I can't do ceiling at all...wife has been pretty good allowing this set up, but said no way to ceiling.

Thoughts?
Edit - i couldn't do Heights to the left or right, they would need to be at the front.


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PSB Imagine X2T Towers / PSB C Centre
PSB Image B6 Surrounds
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Last edited by Dustin Windsor; 09-10-2019 at 01:06 PM.
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post #2 of 20 Old 09-06-2019, 05:15 AM
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I would move the surrounds back and away from the couch
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post #3 of 20 Old 09-06-2019, 05:32 AM
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I'm in a similar boat regarding surround placement. I ended up getting some used Boston Acoustic VRS Micro surrounds (bipoles) for like $50 on ebay just to test the idea and it was a huge improvement. With surrounds that close, the more diffuse soundfield is very noticeable and much more immersive and enjoyable in every seating position. Now that I know, I'll look for some better bipole/dipole speakers (the BAs actually sound okay, but they only go down to maybe 120Hz).

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post #4 of 20 Old 09-06-2019, 05:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lastplace View Post
I would move the surrounds back and away from the couch
That cant happen - my wife has a couple rules and the surrounds have to stay where they are - she allowed the new surround speakers and stands - give and take...you know
They have to be that close, she doesn't want wires on the floor, speakers taking over our place.


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post #5 of 20 Old 09-06-2019, 05:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sd_smoker View Post
I'm in a similar boat regarding surround placement. I ended up getting some used Boston Acoustic VRS Micro surrounds (bipoles) for like $50 on ebay just to test the idea and it was a huge improvement. With surrounds that close, the more diffuse soundfield is very noticeable and much more immersive and enjoyable in every seating position. Now that I know, I'll look for some better bipole/dipole speakers (the BAs actually sound okay, but they only go down to maybe 120Hz).

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You mean you went from 5.1 to a test 7.1 and it was a huge improvement over the 5.1?


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post #6 of 20 Old 09-06-2019, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin Windsor View Post
You mean you went from 5.1 to a test 7.1 and it was a huge improvement over the 5.1?
No, sorry. I have 5.1 with my rears in the same position as in your pic. I just replaced my directional rears with the bipoles.

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post #7 of 20 Old 09-06-2019, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin Windsor View Post
-We just got a new couch, the two sides recline - but the middle doesn't as you can see in the picture.


-i will be sitting in the middle for movies. Kind of sucks how close the surrounds are now but we work with what we have. If i sit in the left seat all i can hear is the left surround, and same with the far right seat...all i can hear is the right surround loud. Is there anything i can actually do about this? When i sit in the middle its perfect...Good thing thing my wife doesn't care.


-Can i do 7.1? When the left and right seats are reclined the "back surrounds" would be fine...but that middle seat can't go down. The back surrounds should be aiming at the middle and it would hit the back of the couch. The tweeter and the woofer are even with the back, and it wouldn't go over the couch.


Is 7.1 a good option for me? I could try front heights but i'm afraid i would be disappointed after all the mounting and holes....or is it worth it? I do have a lot of Atmos movies.


Back surrounds or go front height? I can't do ceiling at all...wife has been pretty good allowing this set up, but said no way to ceiling.

Thoughts?
Edit - i couldn't do Heights to the left or right, they would need to be at the front.
If I may suggest, your room has a few setup issues. If you want to sit off-axis in one of the reclining spots, you should spread the towers wider, with each at the end of the couch. Then, toe them in to cross about 2 feet in front of the center listening position. Then, move your surrounds wider and more behind the couch.

I used to be obsessed with rear surrounds, but based on my room, I had similar problems as you do, so I just went with a 3.1 and never looked back. Not saying you should do this, but your room has some issues and you're not reaching the full potential of the surround setup.
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post #8 of 20 Old 09-06-2019, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Dustin Windsor View Post
That cant happen - my wife has a couple rules and the surrounds have to stay where they are - she allowed the new surround speakers and stands - give and take...you know
They have to be that close, she doesn't want wires on the floor, speakers taking over our place.
I saw this after I replied to your first post.

Sorry, but you'll never get decent sound with the surrounds in that position. As a compromise, you could ask the wife if you can store them close to the couch, but then move them away from the couch when being used.
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post #9 of 20 Old 09-06-2019, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hodgjy View Post
If I may suggest, your room has a few setup issues. If you want to sit off-axis in one of the reclining spots, you should spread the towers wider, with each at the end of the couch. Then, toe them in to cross about 2 feet in front of the center listening position. Then, move your surrounds wider and more behind the couch.

I used to be obsessed with rear surrounds, but based on my room, I had similar problems as you do, so I just went with a 3.1 and never looked back. Not saying you should do this, but your room has some issues and you're not reaching the full potential of the surround setup.

This is such good advice!


-I'm pretty limited with how much wider i can put my front towers. The Right one is almost up against the sub and window - i have no more room to move it over. I can move the sub over to the left side of the TV but it doesn't sound nearly as good. I did the sub crawl many times and to the right is a huge improvement. Should i just move the sub to the left and move the right tower over? It would be worth it to spread the towers over and lose better bass position?



-surrounds: Right now they're directly in line with our heads, matching our ears. You're saying i should move them back and point them inwards toward us slightly? I can do that pretty easily as i have the room. If i move them back, the top of the couch will slightly block them though - is that ok? The reason they're directly to our left and right is they are in line of sight now - if i move them back they won't be. Would i move them back a foot or inches?


-The back right surround: Its stuck beside the couch and can't move- We have a huge wall/window the entire length. It can't be moved at all. I can move the left surround for movies for sure but the right one needs to stay - is that ok?


You're awesome for helping!


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post #10 of 20 Old 09-06-2019, 07:15 AM
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Ideally, you'd want your rears to be positioned like this (see pic). If this isn't possible, no worries then. But I wouldn't worry about adding more channels until this can be addressed. Upward firing speakers are a gimmick and won't improve your experience in your current room.

If you can't move your towers any further out, that's ok. When you get a chance, try toeing them in to cross in front of the center listening position. You'd be surprised how much this help off-axis listening. See this article:
http://www.libinst.com/PublicArticle...20Speakers.pdf
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post #11 of 20 Old 09-06-2019, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hodgjy View Post
Ideally, you'd want your rears to be positioned like this (see pic). If this isn't possible, no worries then. But I wouldn't worry about adding more channels until this can be addressed. Upward firing speakers are a gimmick and won't improve your experience in your current room.

If you can't move your towers any further out, that's ok. When you get a chance, try toeing them in to cross in front of the center listening position. You'd be surprised how much this help off-axis listening. See this article:
http://www.libinst.com/PublicArticle...20Speakers.pdf

The further toeing in is really interesting, great read and thank you!
I don't quite get how far in i would toe them though:
-I would aim the left tower more towards the right edge of my couch or more? (instead of the centre of the couch?)
-Obviously same with the right tower...how far do i toe them?


This is fantastic advice. I'm starting by moving the surrounds a foot or two back and angling them in. Right now they're directly across from our ears and thats all we can hear (on the left side of the couch, only hear the left surround).


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PSB Imagine X2T Towers / PSB C Centre
PSB Image B6 Surrounds
Dual SVS PB 1000's / 4 SVS Elevation Atmos
X-box One X / PS4 Pro w PSVR
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post #12 of 20 Old 09-06-2019, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Dustin Windsor View Post
The further toeing in is really interesting, great read and thank you!
I don't quite get how far in i would toe them though:
-I would aim the left tower more towards the right edge of my couch or more? (instead of the centre of the couch?)
-Obviously same with the right tower...how far do i toe them?


This is fantastic advice. I'm starting by moving the surrounds a foot or two back and angling them in. Right now they're directly across from our ears and thats all we can hear (on the left side of the couch, only hear the left surround).
I'd aim the left tower for the far right cushion, and the right tower for the far left cushion. This has helped my setup because like you I don't want to sit in the middle of the couch. I watch movies and listen to music from the far right cushion and it works fine.

As far as surrounds, you'll just have to play around with them until you get the sound you desire. You could adjust the volume trim to better suit your listening position.
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post #13 of 20 Old 09-06-2019, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hodgjy View Post
I'd aim the left tower for the far right cushion, and the right tower for the far left cushion. This has helped my setup because like you I don't want to sit in the middle of the couch. I watch movies and listen to music from the far right cushion and it works fine.

As far as surrounds, you'll just have to play around with them until you get the sound you desire. You could adjust the volume trim to better suit your listening position.

This is what i did (work in progress and our place is torn apart).


So "toed in" that much is the way to go?
Edit- are my surrounds finally in a better position, or too far back?


Sony 65 A1E/Marantz 7013
PSB Imagine X2T Towers / PSB C Centre
PSB Image B6 Surrounds
Dual SVS PB 1000's / 4 SVS Elevation Atmos
X-box One X / PS4 Pro w PSVR

Last edited by Dustin Windsor; 09-10-2019 at 01:07 PM.
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post #14 of 20 Old 09-06-2019, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Dustin Windsor View Post
This is what i did (work in progress and our place is torn apart).


So "toed in" that much is the way to go?
Edit- are my surrounds finally in a better position, or too far back?
Your room is in much better shape now. Now load up a movie and let it rip! Let us know what you think.
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post #15 of 20 Old 09-06-2019, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Your room is in much better shape now. Now load up a movie and let it rip! Let us know what you think.

Thanks for all your help today, i owe you a beer. I will run YPAO after.


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post #16 of 20 Old 09-06-2019, 01:34 PM
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Thanks for all your help today, i owe you a beer. I will run YPAO after.
Cheers, mate!
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post #17 of 20 Old 09-06-2019, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Dustin Windsor View Post
This is what i did (work in progress and our place is torn apart).


So "toed in" that much is the way to go?
Edit- are my surrounds finally in a better position, or too far back?
If you toe in your towers as much as you did, you are degrading the image and sound stage. The left speaker should be aimed at your left ear and the right speaker should be aimed at your right ear. Try that out and report back.
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post #18 of 20 Old 09-06-2019, 02:28 PM
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If you toe in your towers as much as you did, you are degrading the image and sound stage. The left speaker should be aimed at your left ear and the right speaker should be aimed at your right ear. Try that out and report back.
Did you read the article I posted? It's a well-known phenomenon. The OP said he wasn't fond of sitting in the middle of the couch for movies, so I suggested the over-toe so he could sit off axis and recline in one of the end seats.
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post #19 of 20 Old 09-06-2019, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
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If you toe in your towers as much as you did, you are degrading the image and sound stage. The left speaker should be aimed at your left ear and the right speaker should be aimed at your right ear. Try that out and report back.

We both sit on both ends of the couch. Basically the left tower is in front of her, and the right is in front of me...stupid new couch


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post #20 of 20 Old 09-06-2019, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Right now my surrounds are sitting about 2 feet back from my ear/head position pointed to the middle of the couch - is that too far back? Should they be more in line with my head and moved back just slightly pointed slightly inwards?


Thanks for all the help!


Sony 65 A1E/Marantz 7013
PSB Imagine X2T Towers / PSB C Centre
PSB Image B6 Surrounds
Dual SVS PB 1000's / 4 SVS Elevation Atmos
X-box One X / PS4 Pro w PSVR
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