Is this much of a surround tilt even worth it? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 24 Old 09-17-2019, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Is this much of a surround tilt even worth it?

Hey guys,


Is this much of a tilt on my surrounds worth the hassle? The tweeters are now 2 feet above ear level...
Should surrounds be slightly tilted down towards the main listening area? Is this slight tilt worth it? I will have to start gluing, double sided tape etc to make sure we don't kill our cats...or our feet!
They're up there pretty good, but want to take extra precaution - does this tilt even do anything, or just keep them straight? Again 2 feet up high (never had speakers up so high!)
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post #2 of 24 Old 09-17-2019, 11:58 AM
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Looks like an accident waiting to happen ... If it were me, I'd drop them down to about one foot above seated ear level, and attach them flat to the base.
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post #3 of 24 Old 09-17-2019, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
Looks like an accident waiting to happen ... If it were me, I'd drop them down to about one foot above seated ear level, and attach then flat to the base.

Thank you for the advice. I spent a few hours last night reading about surround placement and everything i read pointed towards 2-3 feet above the ear. I finally have adjustable mounts that i can make 2-3 feet.
Is 2 feet too much, and no need for the tilt?


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post #4 of 24 Old 09-17-2019, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin Windsor View Post
Thank you for the advice. I spent a few hours last night reading about surround placement and everything i read pointed towards 2-3 feet above the ear. I finally have adjustable mounts that i can make 2-3 feet.
Is 2 feet too much, and no need for the tilt?
It depends. You want all the seated ears to be within a 60 degree cone (30 degrees each way) of sound from the tweeter. If your seating is relatively centered, and the speakers are some distance from the seating, then the seating area may be covered at 2 feet. If not, then lowering the speakers is probably the best way to bring the "cone" to the ears. Experiment with height and toe-in until you achieve a good, even sound across your seating area. Leave the balancing act to the seal show in the circus.

Trust your ears. You'll know when it's right.
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post #5 of 24 Old 09-17-2019, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
It depends. You want all the seated ears to be within a 60 degree cone (30 degrees each way) of sound from the tweeter. If your seating is relatively centered, and the speakers are some distance from the seating, then the seating area may be covered at 2 feet. If not, then lowering the speakers is probably the best way to bring the "cone" to the ears. Experiment with height and toe-in until you achieve a good, even sound across your seating area. Leave the balancing act to the seal show in the circus.

Trust your ears. You'll know when it's right.

I appreciate the advice so far - here's my room and how its looking. I don't trust my ears lol as i don't even know what i should be listening for. I just want the perfect setup for my wife and love any advice.


Seeing my room, is the 2 feet up (surrounds) good or i should lower than a little? I can even raise them haha.


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post #6 of 24 Old 09-17-2019, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin Windsor View Post
Hey guys,


Is this much of a tilt on my surrounds worth the hassle? The tweeters are now 2 feet above ear level...
Should surrounds be slightly tilted down towards the main listening area? Is this slight tilt worth it? I will have to start gluing, double sided tape etc to make sure we don't kill our cats...or our feet!
They're up there pretty good, but want to take extra precaution - does this tilt even do anything, or just keep them straight? Again 2 feet up high (never had speakers up so high!)
Your centre speaker also looks like it's aimed at the ceiling.
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post #7 of 24 Old 09-17-2019, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
Your centre speaker also looks like it's aimed at the ceiling.

Its facing directly at my face when sitting!


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post #8 of 24 Old 09-17-2019, 02:29 PM
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Where did you get the 2 feet above ear level recommendation?

Dolby labs suggests ear height for a 5.1 configuration. https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/su...5-1-setup.html

If you were doing a 5.1.4 Atmos setup, you'd definitely want to have a height difference between the surrounds and the Atmos speakers.
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post #9 of 24 Old 09-17-2019, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin Windsor View Post
I appreciate the advice so far - here's my room and how its looking. I don't trust my ears lol as i don't even know what i should be listening for. I just want the perfect setup for my wife and love any advice.


Seeing my room, is the 2 feet up (surrounds) good or i should lower than a little? I can even raise them haha.

I think you're overthinking this right now... just stick them 2 feet above ear level, then point them somewhat toward your ears. Right now, it looks like you've aimed the surrounds at somewhere behind the backs of the chairs.


Placement is crucial, but if you're just starting out with this stuff, it'll take a few weeks-months to get to know the sweet spots of your speakers and your room. So to start with, just point them at you and live with that for a bit. Nothing is forever, you can always adjust.
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post #10 of 24 Old 09-17-2019, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.J. Robb View Post
I think you're overthinking this right now... just stick them 2 feet above ear level, then point them somewhat toward your ears. Right now, it looks like you've aimed the surrounds at somewhere behind the backs of the chairs.


Placement is crucial, but if you're just starting out with this stuff, it'll take a few weeks-months to get to know the sweet spots of your speakers and your room. So to start with, just point them at you and live with that for a bit. Nothing is forever, you can always adjust.

Thanks AJ - they do look like they're pointing behind the couch but they're facing towards the centre. The tweeters are exactly 2 feet above my ear.
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post #11 of 24 Old 09-17-2019, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bobknavs View Post
Where did you get the 2 feet above ear level recommendation?

Dolby labs suggests ear height for a 5.1 configuration. https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/su...5-1-setup.html

If you were doing a 5.1.4 Atmos setup, you'd definitely want to have a height difference between the surrounds and the Atmos speakers.

Thank you for the link Bob - i really thought i read the tweeter should be 2-3 feet above ear - not directly at ear level...now im confused after reading Dolby says to keep them at ear height.


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post #12 of 24 Old 09-17-2019, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by bobknavs View Post
Where did you get the 2 feet above ear level recommendation?
It's not uncommon to have the surrounds 1-2 feet above ear level:

https://www.crutchfield.ca/S-Elhs6vm...placement.html
https://www.the-home-cinema-guide.co...placement.html
https://www.svsound.com/blogs/svs/74...aker-placement
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post #13 of 24 Old 09-17-2019, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Dustin Windsor View Post
Thank you for the link Bob - i really thought i read the tweeter should be 2-3 feet above ear - not directly at ear level...now im confused after reading Dolby says to keep them at ear height.
1-2 feet above ear level is fine.
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post #14 of 24 Old 09-17-2019, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Dustin Windsor View Post
I appreciate the advice so far - here's my room and how its looking. I don't trust my ears lol as i don't even know what i should be listening for. I just want the perfect setup for my wife and love any advice.


Seeing my room, is the 2 feet up (surrounds) good or i should lower than a little? I can even raise them haha.
Just get rid of the balancing act (i.e. lay the speaker flat on the base). If you don't trust your ears, then let your wife sit in the various positions while you modify the height and toe-in. Let HER tell what sounds best. You are looking to follow rules that are subjective, so let them be subjective by allowing the experimentation to make your decision.
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post #15 of 24 Old 09-17-2019, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
Just get rid of the balancing act (i.e. lay the speaker flat on the base). If you don't trust your ears, then let your wife sit in the various positions while you modify the height and toe-in. Let HER tell what sounds best. You are looking to follow rules that are subjective, so let them be subjective by allowing the experimentation to make your decision.

Any advice on how to test surrounds? I have tons of movies, but i'm sure this isn't appropriate.


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post #16 of 24 Old 09-17-2019, 04:29 PM
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Set them up as your front L&R speakers (disconnect L&R, then connect to those speaker terminals). Turn off Audyssey and any and all modes (i.e. Dynamic Anything, Night Mode, whatever). Set up the system as "Pure Direct" or "Stereo" and play music she is familiar with. Start at the 2' height and play with the toe-in, from the speakers pointed directly at each other, to pointed at the opposite farthest seating position, to pointed to the middle chair. Be sure she sits in all the seats for a time, for each position test, as you want to hear if you have a balanced sound in all seating positions. "Speaker in the ear syndrome" is to be avoided at all costs (where while seated closest to one speaker or the other, all you can really hear is that speaker and it's way too loud). Now, lower the speakers 6" and repeat the process. Continue until the speaker's tweeter is at ear height. I figure 4 heights, 3 positions at each height, so 12 test runs ....

If you go through the entire process and have no success, try moving the speakers rearward about a foot and try again (on another day, don't want to burn her out).

Once she has chosen a position, set it up with the fronts and rears to their original connectors, and re-run Audyssey. Live with it for a while. If you like the outcome, you are done. If not, play around some more until you find it's happy place (and yours/hers ).
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post #17 of 24 Old 09-17-2019, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin Windsor View Post
Hey guys,


Is this much of a tilt on my surrounds worth the hassle? The tweeters are now 2 feet above ear level...
Should surrounds be slightly tilted down towards the main listening area? Is this slight tilt worth it? I will have to start gluing, double sided tape etc to make sure we don't kill our cats...or our feet!
They're up there pretty good, but want to take extra precaution - does this tilt even do anything, or just keep them straight? Again 2 feet up high (never had speakers up so high!)
IMO it's annoying having surrounds speakers firing right into your ears. Especially when sitting nearer to one of them. 5-6 feet high with no tilt is my preference.
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post #18 of 24 Old 09-17-2019, 05:55 PM
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As others have stated, 1 to 2 feet above ear level is fine, and no tilt is needed if your speaker has decent vertical off axis response. In fact, with a tilt like that, it might even make the sound a bit too bright (but your ears can be the judge). Also, the reason people typically mount 1 to 2 feet above ear level is to help those in the middle seats not get the sound blocked by the head of those on the outside seats I think.
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post #19 of 24 Old 09-17-2019, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
Yes, I have seen that sort of thing.

I suspect that it may defeat the purpose to a degree if the speakers are tilted down toward the MLP, though. Is that correct?
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post #20 of 24 Old 09-17-2019, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by bobknavs View Post
Yes, I have seen that sort of thing.

I suspect that it may defeat the purpose to a degree if the speakers are tilted down toward the MLP, though. Is that correct?
perhaps if it points directly at ear level? I have mine pointed slightly downwards (~7 degrees), and I think even that passes my ear level a bit more than a foot (and that's really only because the tweeter is probably a bit more than 2 feet above my ear level).

Regardless, the OP could stand to lower his surrounds, and not tilt them downwards as it looks like they're above 2 feet from their ear level.
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post #21 of 24 Old 09-18-2019, 04:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by djp2k7 View Post
IMO it's annoying having surrounds speakers firing right into your ears. Especially when sitting nearer to one of them. 5-6 feet high with no tilt is my preference.

Awesome thanks. I did have them at ear level, and it was frustrating. All i could hear is the right speaker (i sit on the right), and my wife could only hear the left (she sits on the left).
We raised them yesterday and noticed it a little bit less. Its still very heavy on each side...
I sit in the middle, its perfect - but that seat has no recline, the middle sucks haha


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post #22 of 24 Old 09-18-2019, 04:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by m0j0 View Post
As others have stated, 1 to 2 feet above ear level is fine, and no tilt is needed if your speaker has decent vertical off axis response. In fact, with a tilt like that, it might even make the sound a bit too bright (but your ears can be the judge). Also, the reason people typically mount 1 to 2 feet above ear level is to help those in the middle seats not get the sound blocked by the head of those on the outside seats I think.

Love the advice and that's exactly whats happening. When we had them at ear level i couldn't see the far speaker as my wife's head would block it and the couch back would also block most of it. We bought these new stands yesterday to raise them. I guess the 2 feet up is a perfect position ( i could lower them 6 inches as well).

-I took the silly blocks off and there is no tilt.
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post #23 of 24 Old 09-18-2019, 04:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
perhaps if it points directly at ear level? I have mine pointed slightly downwards (~7 degrees), and I think even that passes my ear level a bit more than a foot (and that's really only because the tweeter is probably a bit more than 2 feet above my ear level).

Regardless, the OP could stand to lower his surrounds, and not tilt them downwards as it looks like they're above 2 feet from their ear level.

My tweeter is exactly 2 feet above my ear.


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post #24 of 24 Old 09-18-2019, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin Windsor View Post
Awesome thanks. I did have them at ear level, and it was frustrating. All i could hear is the right speaker (i sit on the right), and my wife could only hear the left (she sits on the left).
We raised them yesterday and noticed it a little bit less. Its still very heavy on each side...
I sit in the middle, its perfect - but that seat has no recline, the middle sucks haha
I'm reluctant to spend other people's money for them, but you may need to consider bipoles, or even dipoles, for your surrounds. https://www.audioholics.com/loudspea...pole-vs-bipole
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