Quality center Vs Good center+sub to pair with bookshelf - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 16 Old 10-02-2019, 06:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quality center Vs Good center+sub to pair with bookshelf

hi

what is better in watching movies especially drama , alot of dialogues


Klipsch RP-500M + Klipsch 504 center ( 2.5-way Speaker)

or

Klipsch RP-500M + RP-500C + SVS PB1000
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post #2 of 16 Old 10-02-2019, 07:31 AM
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A good sub is essential for movies.

Klipsch RP-500M + RP-500C + SVS PB1000
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post #3 of 16 Old 10-02-2019, 08:17 AM
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If your watching movies, a good sub is a major component. So definitely the Klipsch RP-500M + RP-500C + SVS PB1000
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post #4 of 16 Old 10-02-2019, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmadss View Post
hi

what is better in watching movies especially drama , alot of dialogues


klipsch rp-500m + klipsch 504 center ( 2.5-way speaker)

or

klipsch rp-500m + rp-500c + svs pb1000
RP-500m + RP-504c + SVS pb-1000
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post #5 of 16 Old 10-02-2019, 09:37 AM
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I agree...subwoofer is a must. (assuming a fair HT usage)
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post #6 of 16 Old 10-02-2019, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmadss View Post
hi

what is better in watching movies especially drama , alot of dialogues


Klipsch RP-500M + Klipsch 504 center ( 2.5-way Speaker)

or

Klipsch RP-500M + RP-500C + SVS PB1000
For drama's with a lot of dialogue, go with the 504C + 500M. A sub is a must for HT so the PB-1000 is a good choice. If you're in the US, there are other options for speakers and sub.

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post #7 of 16 Old 10-02-2019, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmadss View Post
hi

what is better in watching movies especially drama , alot of dialogues


Klipsch RP-500M + Klipsch 504 center ( 2.5-way Speaker)

or

Klipsch RP-500M + RP-500C + SVS PB1000
I doubt you'd notice much difference between the sound of those two centers to be honest.

But you WILL notice the big difference with a sub in play.
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post #8 of 16 Old 10-02-2019, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
I doubt you'd notice much difference between the sound of those two centers to be honest.

But you WILL notice the big difference with a sub in play.
I quote this from klipsch thread

Quote:
The 504C is known as a "2.5-way speaker", in that the inside mid-woofers play different frequencies than the outside mid-woofers. Since they have different crossovers, this helps to diminish the "comb-filtering" - a Venetian blind effect where there are drop-outs the further you move off-axis - the 504C will provide a wider listening window ie: it will cover the full length of a room instead of the person in the middle. That, plus the added cost of more speaker drivers, a larger cabinet for the speaker (including more internal bracing, a more complex crossover board, etc) will make the cost higher.
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post #9 of 16 Old 10-02-2019, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
For drama's with a lot of dialogue, go with the 504C + 500M. A sub is a must for HT so the PB-1000 is a good choice. If you're in the US, there are other options for speakers and sub.
i am not from USA, i have limited options

the salesman told me to invest as much as i can in the center cause it will makes the difference in dialogues far than anything else
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post #10 of 16 Old 10-02-2019, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmadss View Post
I quote this from klipsch thread
I think the whole center channel lobing which exists in theory and in measurement does not exist in actual practice to be honest.

I have MTM centers in both my systems, (albeit the tweeter in my main system is raised to minimize lobing), and moving from one side of the room to the other provides zero issues in terms of tone/intelligibility.

If you live in the States order both of those centers from Crutchfield and see for yourself with a total cost of $10 to return the loser.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #11 of 16 Old 10-02-2019, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmadss View Post
i am not from USA, i have limited options

the salesman told me to invest as much as i can in the center cause it will makes the difference in dialogues far than anything else
If your MLP is centered and don't have frequent listeners in different areas of the room, the 500C will likely get the job done.

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post #12 of 16 Old 10-02-2019, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
If your MLP is centered and don't have frequent listeners in different areas of the room, the 500C will likely get the job done.
While I listen in the center MLP 15 feet from the center my wife's chair is 4 feet in front of me and 5 feet to the left just outboard of the front left speaker which is about 8 feet from her.

2 way center with raised tweeter is under the TV aimed up at my ear level on the couch.

Center of TV is at eye level when seated.

She must be almost 45 degrees off axis.

Sounds just fine at her seat and the identical off axis seat on the other side of the room.

Here's measurements for an "ideal" three way center, and it looks horrible but the review notes it sound just fine.


"Though this is a three-way speaker, the physical law here is the same that causes midrange dips in the response of all the two-way (woofer-tweeter-woofer) horizontal center channel speakers we have tested over the years.

The only difference is the frequency involved.

For three people on a couch at 10' or so from the speakers, however, it shouldn't be a significant problem."



Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...b4oJMKIEraF.99

NHT Classic Three C, pseudo-anechoic response off the horizontal axis at 45° (red) and 60° (blue).


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post #13 of 16 Old 10-02-2019, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
While I listen in the center MLP 15 feet from the center my wife's chair is 4 feet in front of me and 5 feet to the left just outboard of the front left speaker which is about 8 feet from her.

2 way center with raised tweeter is under the TV aimed up at my ear level on the couch.

Center of TV is at eye level when seated.

She must be almost 45 degrees off axis.

Sounds just fine at her seat and the identical off axis seat on the other side of the room.

Here's measurements for an "ideal" three way center, and it looks horrible but the review notes it sound just fine.


"Though this is a three-way speaker, the physical law here is the same that causes midrange dips in the response of all the two-way (woofer-tweeter-woofer) horizontal center channel speakers we have tested over the years.

The only difference is the frequency involved.

For three people on a couch at 10' or so from the speakers, however, it shouldn't be a significant problem."



Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...b4oJMKIEraF.99

NHT Classic Three C, pseudo-anechoic response off the horizontal axis at 45° (red) and 60° (blue).


The article describes the sound:



Quote:
Curiously, despite the 6.5" midbass and the generous 2" aluminum dome midrange drivers, I found the Classic system's overall sound somewhat withdrawn in the upper midbass/lower midrange region and cool sounding in the midrange; a combo that no amount of subwoofer fiddling could ameliorate. While it was possible to thicken and fatten the bottom end using the X2's controls, there was no warming up the midrange. Thus the system's ability to produce tactile, well-textured, harmonically complete and delicate images was somewhat restricted compared to some other (more expensive) speakers I've auditioned, including the less-than-stellar measuring Sonus Faber Domus system.

The measurement seems to verify the listening impressions. I'm very surprised you can't hear that, especially in off-axis LP's. (Disclaimer: I've never heard these speakers myself, so no first-hand experience.)

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post #14 of 16 Old 10-02-2019, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post
The article describes the sound:






The measurement seems to verify the listening impressions. I'm very surprised you can't hear that, especially in off-axis LP's. (Disclaimer: I've never heard these speakers myself, so no first-hand experience.)
No, sorry, I don't own that particular speaker but was interested in that they said the mid range dip off axis for horizontal centers was common in their experience with both 2 and 3 way designs.

Personally with my Usher V603 center in my main HT room and the tiny Martin Logan Motion 8 in my secondary room I don't notice severe off axis dropoff but perhaps I'm not at 45 degrees at my most extreme seating positions.

Maybe because the Usher has a large 1.25" dome center that is raised or that the Motion 8 is acutally a curved design with the outboard midbass drivers being gently angled off center?

Measurements show that horizontal centers are a compromise design and an identical speaker to the left/right makes the ideal center oriented in the same manner but my compromised centers do the job for me which seems to be the consensus for most on AVS.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #15 of 16 Old 10-03-2019, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
If your MLP is centered and don't have frequent listeners in different areas of the room, the 500C will likely get the job done.
It definitely will! I have owned mine for about a year and it's absolutely a wonderful center!


I would definitely go with the Klipsch RP-500M + RP-500C + SVS PB1000 option.
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post #16 of 16 Old 10-03-2019, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
No, sorry, I don't own that particular speaker but was interested in that they said the mid range dip off axis for horizontal centers was common in their experience with both 2 and 3 way designs.

Personally with my Usher V603 center in my main HT room and the tiny Martin Logan Motion 8 in my secondary room I don't notice severe off axis dropoff but perhaps I'm not at 45 degrees at my most extreme seating positions.

Maybe because the Usher has a large 1.25" dome center that is raised or that the Motion 8 is acutally a curved design with the outboard midbass drivers being gently angled off center?

Measurements show that horizontal centers are a compromise design and an identical speaker to the left/right makes the ideal center oriented in the same manner but my compromised centers do the job for me which seems to be the consensus for most on AVS.

Yeah, most on AVS are only concerned with one seat... the sweet spot, which is "their" chair. Most any horizontal CC will be fine directly on-axis, and even slightly off-axis. Most non-AVS'rs sitting off to the side are likely not concerned about sound quality, (SO's, kids, parents, friends, etc.) In that situation, a horizontal MTM, (or even a W(TM)W), that exhibits lobing and comb filtering won't be a concern for those listeners either. They likely don't care and/or don't know what to listen for anyway. Mostly, they'll be so overwhelmed by what they're hearing that they'll be impressed no matter what.

When I have people over, I always give up the sweet spot to my guests. If I have more than one person over who is interested in sound quality, (like an AVS GTG), I cycle each listener through the sweet spot. It's not just about the center channel speaker. It's also about imaging, soundstage, spaciousness, 3D immersion, optimized bass response, etc. All of those things come together most optimally in the sweet spot.

Craig

Lombardi said it:
"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

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