KEF R3 vs Ascend Sierra 2EX - Blind Listening Results (Informal) - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 271Likes
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-02-2019, 07:05 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
aarons915's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,429
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 974 Post(s)
Liked: 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by l0nestar8 View Post

I think Buchardt is doing themselves a major disservice by incorporating "floor bounce" in their sound power curve. That graph would look much better is they assumed an anechoic response. That's an example of a company choosing to publish a graph that makes their speaker look worse than it should!!

I agree, even some speaker designers are confused by the apparent directivity mismatch which really isn't a problem if you look at the early reflections graphs. At the very least, they should have explained the dip at 2k.
aarons915 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-02-2019, 07:08 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SteveCallas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,223
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 856 Post(s)
Liked: 784
Nice work - not nearly enough listening comparisons on this forum imo, glad to see a fresh one.
SteveCallas is offline  
Old 11-02-2019, 07:11 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 5,164
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 1757
This thread so far has value. Please do not turn this into Act II of the other thread. Let it go.
zieglj01, kma100, goldark and 2 others like this.
Soulburner is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-02-2019, 07:12 PM
Senior Member
 
Matthew Pool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Las Vegas bound
Posts: 217
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 153 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bnaan View Post
Damn, that sucks for me. I can't get the Ascends over here in Europe but this makes it hard to go for the R3s.. :/
Thank you for doing this though, very nice! Now do R3 vs Buchardt S400 please
Don't rule R3's out, they are excellent speakers. I've had mine going on a year and enjoying them very much.
echopraxia likes this.

KEF R3 L/R | Dual Rythmik F12SE | 2.2 | Yamaha RX-A2080
Matthew Pool is offline  
Old 11-02-2019, 08:33 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Zorba922's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 12,964
Mentioned: 226 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7271 Post(s)
Liked: 5570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bnaan View Post
Damn, that sucks for me. I can't get the Ascends over here in Europe but this makes it hard to go for the R3s.. :/
Thank you for doing this though, very nice! Now do R3 vs Buchardt S400 please
If Ascend isn't willing to ship you a pair of Sierra 2EX, I would look for a pair of Wharfedale Evo 4.2...I suspect they would be quite close to the 2EX, maybe equal or even better...and in Europe, probably would cost less than here.

https://www.wharfedale.co.uk/evo-4-2/

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
Zorba922 is offline  
Old 11-02-2019, 08:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 3,105
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1815 Post(s)
Liked: 1400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
If Ascend isn't willing to ship you a pair of Sierra 2EX, I would look for a pair of Wharfedale Evo 4.2...I suspect they would be quite close to the 2EX, maybe equal or even better...and in Europe, probably would cost less than here.



https://www.wharfedale.co.uk/evo-4-2/

I’d be interested to hear why you think so, Zorba.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
Russdawg1 is offline  
Old 11-02-2019, 08:47 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Zorba922's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 12,964
Mentioned: 226 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7271 Post(s)
Liked: 5570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
I’d be interested to hear why you think so, Zorba.
Supposedly the RAAL tweeter is in a whole other league than the AMT, but from my very rough and unreliable aural memory I doubt the gap is as large as most people assume...and this is using as reference the decidedly imperfect, low-budget Emotiva B1s (which have a smaller AMT than that on the Evos if I understand correctly) vs both the Sierra 2 originals that I heard at Ascend HQ (and loved) as well as my own Phils BMRs (which I love as well). The other factor is that the Evo 4.2 is a 3 way design vs the 2-way of the Sierra 2EX...which might well close the gap and/or give them a slight edge. Either way, I doubt one is night-and-day "better" than the other, similar to the OP's conclusion about the R3 vs the 2EX.

All idle speculation of course.
aarons915 and Vikram Iyengar like this.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
Zorba922 is offline  
Old 11-02-2019, 09:26 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 3,105
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1815 Post(s)
Liked: 1400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Supposedly the RAAL tweeter is in a whole other league than the AMT, but from my very rough and unreliable aural memory I doubt the gap is as large as most people assume...and this is using as reference the decidedly imperfect, low-budget Emotiva B1s (which have a smaller AMT than that on the Evos if I understand correctly) vs both the Sierra 2 originals that I heard at Ascend HQ (and loved) as well as my own Phils BMRs (which I love as well). The other factor is that the Evo 4.2 is a 3 way design vs the 2-way of the Sierra 2EX...which might well close the gap and/or give them a slight edge. Either way, I doubt one is night-and-day "better" than the other, similar to the OP's conclusion about the R3 vs the 2EX.



All idle speculation of course.

Thanks for the clarification

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
Russdawg1 is offline  
Old 11-02-2019, 10:25 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 317
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 464 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Supposedly the RAAL tweeter is in a whole other league than the AMT, but from my very rough and unreliable aural memory I doubt the gap is as large as most people assume...and this is using as reference the decidedly imperfect, low-budget Emotiva B1s (which have a smaller AMT than that on the Evos if I understand correctly) vs both the Sierra 2 originals that I heard at Ascend HQ (and loved) as well as my own Phils BMRs (which I love as well). The other factor is that the Evo 4.2 is a 3 way design vs the 2-way of the Sierra 2EX...which might well close the gap and/or give them a slight edge. Either way, I doubt one is night-and-day "better" than the other, similar to the OP's conclusion about the R3 vs the 2EX.

All idle speculation of course.
Are you serious? If you're right, you could save me a lot of $$$ and heartache. I was set on the Wharf Evo 4.2 after seeing your posts all over AVS and then just yesterday got convinced that the Sierra 2EX would put the Wharfies to shame and that I would be amiss not getting the Ascends.
Vikram Iyengar is offline  
Old 11-02-2019, 10:33 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
aarons915's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,429
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 974 Post(s)
Liked: 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
Are you serious? If you're right, you could save me a lot of $$$ and heartache. I was set on the Wharf Evo 4.2 after seeing your posts all over AVS and then just yesterday got convinced that the Sierra 2EX would put the Wharfies to shame and that I would be amiss not getting the Ascends.
I'm pretty sure no one on this forum has compared both speakers so whoever "convinced" you of that you can safely ignore. What Zorba is saying is that most good speakers in this price range are more similar than different and none of them are going to put another "to shame". Of course the only way you can know for sure is to buy each and do your own blind comparison.
Zorba922 and Vikram Iyengar like this.
aarons915 is offline  
Old 11-02-2019, 11:02 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Zorba922's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 12,964
Mentioned: 226 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7271 Post(s)
Liked: 5570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
Are you serious? If you're right, you could save me a lot of $$$ and heartache. I was set on the Wharf Evo 4.2 after seeing your posts all over AVS and then just yesterday got convinced that the Sierra 2EX would put the Wharfies to shame and that I would be amiss not getting the Ascends.
What the previous poster said.
Vikram Iyengar likes this.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
Zorba922 is offline  
Old 11-02-2019, 11:24 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 3,105
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1815 Post(s)
Liked: 1400
KEF R3 vs Ascend Sierra 2EX - Blind Listening Results (Informal)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post
I'm pretty sure no one on this forum has compared both speakers so whoever "convinced" you of that you can safely ignore. What Zorba is saying is that most good speakers in this price range are more similar than different and none of them are going to put another "to shame". Of course the only way you can know for sure is to buy each and do your own blind comparison.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
What the previous poster said.
I’ll clear the air here since it is needed.

He was planning on spending $4000 on a Wharfedale Evo system before coming into the Ascend forum and asking about them compared to Ascend products.

When tasked with this question I took a quick glance at the Wharfedale towers specs and design and came to the conclusion that there was nothing about them that would lead me to believe these are any better than Ascend’s offerings which are sold at a much lower price.

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-pNZ1XC...SABEgLtZPD_BwE

At $2000, these Wharfedale towers are inferior in many ways to Ascend’s S2Ex bookshelf speaker which costs $1600.

Not only is the efficiency gain minimal, I’m willing to place money on the fact that the frequency response will be no where near as flat.

The bass response from this bookshelf also extends further than the tower speaker....

Power handling is almost identical, and the 3 way design allows for more crossover dips which I guarantee will be apparent, vs the S2Ex which would only have 1 crossover dip, which is barely visible in the measurements.

Not to mention we all know the value that an ID brand brings vs a mass market brand like Wharfedale

This also doesn’t even have to apply to the S2Ex. Take Ascend’s Sierra 1’s. Almost everything applies again.

Much better. Continue!

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
Russdawg1 is offline  
Old 11-03-2019, 12:03 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
aarons915's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,429
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 974 Post(s)
Liked: 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post

When tasked with this question I took a quick glance at the Wharfedale towers specs and design and came to the conclusion that there was nothing about them that would lead me to believe these are any better than Ascend’s offerings which are sold at a much lower price.
You do realize that "specs" are mostly meaningless I hope? Compared to the Sierra towers the Wharfedale have bigger woofers and are a 3 way at a cheaper price, of course the RAAL is probably superior to the AMT tweeter, whether it's worth the price difference is up to the individual. I want to see measurements of the new EVO series as well but just assuming that they aren't as good isn't doing anyone any good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
Not to mention we all know the value that an ID brand brings vs a mass market brand like Wharfedale
Do we? I agree ID brands don't have a middle man markup but the mass market brands have economies of scale and benefit from trickle down technology. At any given price point, I don't see any advantage that ID brands have over the bigger names but that is getting a bit off topic.
Lp85253 and Vikram Iyengar like this.
aarons915 is offline  
Old 11-03-2019, 12:16 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 5,164
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 1757
The Wharfedale house sound tends to be rolled off a bit on the high end. If you prefer lots of treble extension to 20 kHz, Ascend would be the better choice.

Of course the Evo could be voiced differently. Haven't seen any reviews yet.
Vikram Iyengar likes this.

HT: Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings) | NAD T758 V3 | Buchardt S400 (2) | Polk LSiM 702 F/X (2) | Infinity RS152 (4) | Subs TBD (2)
PC: Micca OriGen G2 | Mackie MR624 (2)
Soulburner is offline  
Old 11-03-2019, 12:23 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 3,105
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1815 Post(s)
Liked: 1400
Quote:
Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post
You do realize that "specs" are mostly meaningless I hope? Compared to the Sierra towers the Wharfedale have bigger woofers and are a 3 way at a cheaper price, of course the RAAL is probably superior to the AMT tweeter, whether it's worth the price difference is up to the individual. I want to see measurements of the new EVO series as well but just assuming that they aren't as good isn't doing anyone any good.



Do we? I agree ID brands don't have a middle man markup but the mass market brands have economies of scale and benefit from trickle down technology. At any given price point, I don't see any advantage that ID brands have over the bigger names but that is getting a bit off topic.

The ID comment was directed towards Zorba being a strong defender of ID brands.

I see you have favored retail brands over recent times.

Specs are very meaningful.

Bass response is a very cut and dry one.

Im not sure what is attractive about a design that has a larger volume, double the surface area, and twice the voice coils to end up with similar power handling, low efficiency and skimpy bass performance in a large cabinet. But maybe that’s just me.

A 3 way design allows for more error, and unless there is a glaring directivity mismatch between the woofer and tweeter used, I see no need for a midrange. Properly designed 2 ways are superior due to this as I mentioned above.

Seas, who custom makes Ascend’s woofers, is one of the most respected brands in the game and uses the best technology available.

These are all the “specs” I see, which I hold to great importance, and I’m sure others do.

I see nothing in Wharfedale’s design besides a pretty cabinet. But do point out some “trickle down technology”.

Isn’t that a sales pitch from B&W to sell you their 700 D3 series which uses their old 800 D2 series technology? Ah but no matter.

Back to Ascend S2Ex vs Kef R3 please!
Vikram Iyengar and echopraxia like this.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
Russdawg1 is offline  
Old 11-03-2019, 12:35 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 313
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 282 Post(s)
Liked: 236
Speaking of Ascend Sierra 2EX vs KEF R3 again, I’m going to try them out in a different room with a much longer rectangular shape where the only place for speakers is on one of the shorter walls. I am wondering if this might be one case where the narrower dispersion may be an advantage. I am also going to do some more careful comparisons between these speakers when no subwoofer is involved.
aarons915 and Vikram Iyengar like this.

Ascend Sierra Towers (RAAL) + Ascend Horizon (RAAL) + 2x Rythmik F18 | Ascend Sierra 2EX + JL Audio E112
echopraxia is offline  
Old 11-03-2019, 08:37 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Zorba922's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 12,964
Mentioned: 226 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7271 Post(s)
Liked: 5570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
I’ll clear the air here since it is needed.
You haven't cleared the air, just added your own idle speculations as a counterpoint to mine, which are entirely acceptable as far as idle speculations go.

Until one of us has a chance to actually hear both speakers side by side, it's just another day at the office.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
Zorba922 is offline  
Old 11-03-2019, 08:40 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post
Why not? Ascend will ship internationally according to this: http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages.../shipping.html.

Shoot them an email to confirm.
Well I meant "can't get them shipped at a reasonable price" A 43 lbs/20 kg package and additional import taxes won't be cheap. Then again, the Ascends are cheaper (+-1350 EUR) than both the R3 (1600 EUR) and S400 (2000 EUR) so that leaves a decent amount of margin left for shipping to get to the same price. Interesing..
I would of course be buying them blind (or in this case, deaf), purely based on reviews and experience of other users on the forum. The others I can either listen beforehand or return easily.

Last edited by Bnaan; 11-03-2019 at 08:52 AM.
Bnaan is online now  
Old 11-03-2019, 08:46 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gajCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 19,634
Mentioned: 230 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9241 Post(s)
Liked: 6348
Quote:
Originally Posted by echopraxia View Post
If I had a nickel for every time aarons915 criticizes the Sierra 2EX’s measurements on this forum and others, I’d have enough money to buy a Buchardt S400 to test against the Sierra 2EX. No matter what forum I go to, wherever an Ascend or RAAL product is mentioned, a wild Aaron appears out of the bushes to criticize it :P
Weird, isn't it.

150 posts or so IIRC on that topic alone.

Seems the 2EX might be THE stand mount speaker to buy at $1500.

Perhaps the Buchardt at $1800 though, truth be told, you'd likely have to A/B them in the same room with the same material to find any "difference."
Vikram Iyengar likes this.

Geoff A. J., California
gajCA is offline  
Old 11-03-2019, 09:17 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 317
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 464 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Weird, isn't it.

150 posts or so IIRC on that topic alone.

Seems the 2EX might be THE stand mount speaker to buy at $1500.

Perhaps the Buchardt at $1800 though, truth be told, you'd likely have to A/B them in the same room with the same material to find any "difference."
Looks like you were right about 300 posts ago when you said that the RSL Speedwoofer would be perfectly fine for my needs but AVS has a way of making OPs increase their budget or spend. I went to the L12. Then I went from Reva to Evo 4.2 because of other posts and yours saying it would be your no. 1 choice. Now, I'm thinking if I do $1000 over the next 20 years, why not do $1500 and get the superior Sierra 2EX because it is THE speaker to buy at $1500!

Not teasing or anything, just chuckling to myself about my own behavior after reading AVS for 3 months.
Lp85253 likes this.
Vikram Iyengar is offline  
Old 11-03-2019, 09:19 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Zorba922's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 12,964
Mentioned: 226 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7271 Post(s)
Liked: 5570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
When tasked with this question I took a quick glance at the Wharfedale towers specs and design and came to the conclusion that there was nothing about them that would lead me to believe these are any better than Ascend’s offerings which are sold at a much lower price.

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-pNZ1XC...SABEgLtZPD_BwE

At $2000, these Wharfedale towers are inferior in many ways to Ascend’s S2Ex bookshelf speaker which costs $1600.
PS. You were comparing apples to oranges.

The Evo 4.4 *towers* are $2000/pair shipped from Crutchfield. The Ascend Sierra towers with RAAL tweeter upgrade are $3000/pr shipped.

The Evo 4.2 bookshelves are $1K/pr shipped. The Sierra 2EX are $1534/pair shipped.

So in this case, the ID brand is actually more expensive...and not by just a little.

The bottom line question remains though, whether the price difference is justified by any ostensible performance/qualitative difference, in particular that of the more expensive RAAL tweeter vs the AMT---and this would of course be entirely subjective and personal as are most things in this hobby of ours. Specs are fun to play with, but until we have a direct AB comparison, the only thing we can know is that we don't know.
gajCA and Vikram Iyengar like this.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)

Last edited by Zorba922; 11-03-2019 at 09:38 AM.
Zorba922 is offline  
Old 11-03-2019, 09:24 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Zorba922's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 12,964
Mentioned: 226 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7271 Post(s)
Liked: 5570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
Now, I'm thinking if I do $1000 over the next 20 years, why not do $1500 and get the superior Sierra 2EX because it is THE speaker to buy at $1500!
In that vein, you really owe it to yourself to order both the 2EX and the 4.2 to find out for yourself which is worth keeping for YOU. Remember, flat rate return shipping on the 4.2 to Crutchfield would be only $10 which is truly peanuts over "the next 20 years"---unless you decided to return the 2EX instead, which would probably cost about $100 but again that's also peanuts since you'd be saving yourself about $534.

Otherwise, a part of you might always wonder, "what if" for the next 20 years. Surely you don't want THAT to happen, now do you?
Vikram Iyengar likes this.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)

Last edited by Zorba922; 11-03-2019 at 09:37 AM.
Zorba922 is offline  
Old 11-03-2019, 09:25 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 317
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 464 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
The Wharfedale house sound tends to be rolled off a bit on the high end. If you prefer lots of treble extension to 20 kHz, Ascend would be the better choice.

Of course the Evo could be voiced differently. Haven't seen any reviews yet.
What frequency is background noise? That's the freq I wish to avoid. I mean like on Law & Order SVU, when the actors are outside, one can hear the shhhhh background. For me, that seems to dominate in my Polk s15 when music is played at lower vol. So female backups sound boosted and the main vocals are suppressed. A lot of noise in the music muddying the music that I don't get in my car or on my Sonos One (but may not be high freq noise, I don't know). If that shhhh (not ssss) is 20 kHz, then I'd probably like Wharf? I like treble in that I like blues guitar (it's the primary instrument for me). Is that midbass, midrange, or treble?

Edit. At higher vol, the s15 sound cleaner and the shhh goes away or at least is dominated by the real music and vocals. But I can't play at such loud vol due to family (club level).

Last edited by Vikram Iyengar; 11-03-2019 at 09:32 AM.
Vikram Iyengar is offline  
Old 11-03-2019, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 313
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 282 Post(s)
Liked: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
The Sierra 2EX are $1786/pair shipped.
Where are you getting this? My pair were $1534 shipped, no additional costs or fees of any kind beyond that.

P.S. If anyone wants any particular thing evaluated between the two speakers, let me know. I will measure the distance between the woofer and coaxial driver today, as requested earlier.
Vikram Iyengar likes this.

Ascend Sierra Towers (RAAL) + Ascend Horizon (RAAL) + 2x Rythmik F18 | Ascend Sierra 2EX + JL Audio E112
echopraxia is offline  
Old 11-03-2019, 09:32 AM
Advanced Member
 
Vergiliusm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: The Land of Enchantment
Posts: 666
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 254 Post(s)
Liked: 482
Quote:
Because by definition it's the difference between the early reflections and the listening window and if you check some of the points it's clearly not abiding by that spec. It looks much better than it really is.
You seem to have it out for Ascend. Did Dave kick your puppy?

From a practical POV, the computer program Ascend uses for measurements performs a simple calculation(subtraction)from the LW and ER curves, not some complicated functions like convolution or signal conversion, so I don't see how it's possible to have an error.

But anyhoo...

Good stuff Echopraxia. I really like the Uni-Q drivers. I got a great deal on some Q100s about a year and half ago and enjoyed them for awhile before moving them up for Atmos duty, where the coaxials really shine. Kef makes some great loudspeakers, but as your testing shows, there are a lot of different ways to get great performance.
Vikram Iyengar likes this.

"Rock and roll is alive and alright" Sloan
Vergiliusm is offline  
Old 11-03-2019, 09:36 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Zorba922's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 12,964
Mentioned: 226 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7271 Post(s)
Liked: 5570
Quote:
Originally Posted by echopraxia View Post
Where are you getting this? My pair were $1534 shipped, no additional costs or fees of any kind beyond that.
Oops, you're right...I was looking at the "Domestic cabinets" pricing.
Vikram Iyengar likes this.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
Zorba922 is offline  
Old 11-03-2019, 09:46 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
aarons915's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,429
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 974 Post(s)
Liked: 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vergiliusm View Post
You seem to have it out for Ascend. Did Dave kick your puppy?

From a practical POV, the computer program Ascend uses for measurements performs a simple calculation(subtraction)from the LW and ER curves, not some complicated functions like convolution or signal conversion, so I don't see how it's possible to have an error.
Not at all, I just find it funny that we can call KEF measurements marketing BS but you point out something about an Ascend measurement and all hell breaks loose. You know you can always just check a few points and subtract for yourself to check my claim, no fancy computer algorithm needed. It would be extremely hard to have an "error" subtracting, I agree. I really have nothing against Ascend, I just said earlier that the Sierra towers appear to be a great design, I'd like to see how they do blind against other good towers at 5k or under, maybe Echopraxia could get that done someday lol. I don't think there's any point in trying the KEF R towers after this double blind test but the Revel F206 might be a good contender.
Vikram Iyengar likes this.
aarons915 is offline  
Old 11-03-2019, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 313
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 282 Post(s)
Liked: 236
I am now comparing these speakers in another room and with no subwoofer. (Sighted test though.) However, my bias has been inverted again. The Ascend Sierra 2EX actually has no worse bass extension to my ears, and it may even reach a little bit deeper than the R3. If anything, the KEF R3 may have a bit more midbass presence, but if I just play with the equalizer a bit the Ascend actually sounds better in that area too.

My previous comments about the KEF R3 having better bass without a subwoofer were all based on my initial listening of them alone, not direct comparison where I switched back and forth. I think my initial impressions were almost entirely “shiny new gadget” bias.

The KEF R3 is still a great speaker. But I am all the more impressed now with the Sierra 2-EX. It’s not just a great speaker, it is an incredible speaker.
Lp85253 and Vikram Iyengar like this.

Ascend Sierra Towers (RAAL) + Ascend Horizon (RAAL) + 2x Rythmik F18 | Ascend Sierra 2EX + JL Audio E112

Last edited by echopraxia; 11-03-2019 at 09:58 AM.
echopraxia is offline  
Old 11-03-2019, 09:56 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
aarons915's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,429
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 974 Post(s)
Liked: 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by echopraxia View Post
I am now comparing these speakers in another room and with no subwoofer. (Sighted test though.) However, my bias has been inverted again. The Ascend Sierra 2EX actually has no worse bass extension to my ears, and it may even go a little bit deeper. If anything, the KEF R3 may have a bit more midbass presence, but if I just play with the equalizer a bit the Ascend actually sounds better in that area too.
Is this in the narrower room you were talking about? So you notice no difference in "spaciousness" in either setup? The Sierra 2 don't have any brightness to the highs in this room either?
aarons915 is offline  
Old 11-03-2019, 09:59 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gajCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 19,634
Mentioned: 230 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9241 Post(s)
Liked: 6348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
Looks like you were right about 300 posts ago when you said that the RSL Speedwoofer would be perfectly fine for my needs but AVS has a way of making OPs increase their budget or spend. I went to the L12. Then I went from Reva to Evo 4.2 because of other posts and yours saying it would be your no. 1 choice. Now, I'm thinking if I do $1000 over the next 20 years, why not do $1500 and get the superior Sierra 2EX because it is THE speaker to buy at $1500!

Not teasing or anything, just chuckling to myself about my own behavior after reading AVS for 3 months.
How do you like the Rhythmik L12 sub?

I wouldn't worry about any speakers that would cost more than you invested in the Polks to simply return if disappointed to be honest.

I'd try the Evos and if they aren't what they seem to be on paper, (and on preliminary reviews), hey, you're out $20, (unless they come in one box and then you're out $10), but you are actually not even going to be out that much as they take the shipping charge out of your rewards points.

My first 5.1 system cost $10,000 in today's money because I was an early adopter in the mid 80s when everything had to be pieced together using components designed for "stereo" duty with the modern gee whiz surround processors, and then new "real subs.

The Shure processor was a revelation back then but cost more than a high quality AVR today, and my ULD15 sub was mind blowing but very expensive and your L12 is likely just as good at 1/3 the time adjusted price.

Today?

My pair of towers could be replaced for $1500/pair and I'll keep them until my house burns down, (had massive fires last week here, dodged another bullet).

I'm not chasing some god foresaken upgrade path because "some guy" on AVS doesn't like their measurements.

My current system is just fine thank your very much and I wouldn't even have the towers if my @#$%^&* cats hadn't kept knocking over the B&W matrix stand mounters I had bought in the 1990s.
Lp85253 and Vikram Iyengar like this.

Geoff A. J., California
gajCA is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
 
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off