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post #1 of 10 Old 11-03-2019, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Observe my speaker War! Finish Him!

So I have an old Yamaha HTR-5950.

I will upgrade soon enough but right now that is what I have.
I was originally seeking advice about a center speaker that wasn't physically large but would also be decent for music. I do enjoy 5.1 mixed music and see other thread for more detail.

I'll post a link in a reply.

Great advice was given and how I have three centers and two pairs of bookshelf left and rights under 30 day trial.

Please note my expertise is limited so you are seeing the worked of an interested amateur.



Here are the speakers I ordered:
L-R: (I am trying a second pair as a result of this thread)
Fluance Signature Series HiFi Two-way Bookshelf
RSL CG3 Bookshelf

Center:
RSL CG23 Monitor / Center Channel
Emotiva Airmotiv C1
NHT C Series C-LCR 3-Way Center Channel

I haven't yet compared all of them because I need time to set them up and swap side by side. That should happen this weekend when I have decent time to change out and compare apples to apples in terms of music and movies. (Suggestions welcomed.)


So far I have tried out the combination of the Fluance bookshelf and the NHT Center so far. (Merely because they arrived first.) What I noticed so far is the tremendous amount of bass that I have loaded up. It is waaaay more than I am accustomed too and probably too bass heavy.

I have attached a few things to this post. My Yamaha RX does have a an EQ setting but it is across the board. Of course it has levels for various channels.



1) Fluance bookshelf + MHT Center channel. I did do some significant adjustment to both the levels and the EQ to balance as best I could on a first trial run. Still too much bass but much better. Also Center required a boost over the left-right for 5.1 films for the sake of having the dialogue come through the center channel properly.

2) RSL CG3 bookshelf and RSL CG23 Center now set up. I did some music samples and some film. Clearly less bass. I have not had a chance to totally tweak center and left-right levels or the EQ just yet. I am wondering is some mid-range is less spectacular but I can't say for sure because I haven't tweaked the EQ other than to even it out for all channels as a baseline.


3) I do have concerns about the Emotiva Aitmotiv C1 as it is rated at 4ohms and my receiver is 8ohms BUT the manual does discuss a way to select impedance. I will post a page from the manual and more specific question in a reply to this message.

I will post some followup impressions in this thread. If you have any comments and advice I welcome them.

-- Mr yaya.
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post #2 of 10 Old 11-03-2019, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are links to the speakers in question:
L-R: (I am trying a second pair as a result of this thread)
Fluance Signature Series HiFi Two-way Bookshelf
RSL CG3 Bookshelf

Center:
RSL CG23 Monitor / Center Channel
Emotiva Airmotiv C1
NHT C Series C-LCR 3-Way Center Channel


Here is a link to the original thread: HERE


Attachments: Page from RX manual about adjusting impedance, shot of Receiver channel levels, and Receiver EQ shot.

My concern in trying the Emotiva Airmotiv C1 is that it is 4ohm and the receiver is 8ohms with the exception of the attachment you see. I can set the speaker impedance to 6ohms. However any other speakers (L,R,Rears, and subwoofer) would be 8ohms. I am not sure of the significance of that fact. Any advice here would be welcomed.

-- Mr Yaya
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post #3 of 10 Old 11-03-2019, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YaYaDingBat View Post
2) RSL CG3 bookshelf and RSL CG23 Center now set up. I did some music samples and some film. Clearly less bass. I have not had a chance to totally tweak center and left-right levels or the EQ just yet. I am wondering is some mid-range is less spectacular but I can't say for sure because I haven't tweaked the EQ other than to even it out for all channels as a baseline.


3) I do have concerns about the Emotiva Aitmotiv C1 as it is rated at 4ohms and my receiver is 8ohms BUT the manual does discuss a way to select impedance. I will post a page from the manual and more specific question in a reply to this message.

I will post some followup impressions in this thread. If you have any comments and advice I welcome them.
.
The RSL CG23 has a big smiley curve dip from 500 hz to 7 khz ... that is why the midrange sounds a little different

The Emotiva center could work for you with the old Yamaha as long as you do not try to blast the volume ... the Emotiva center does not dip below 4 ohms ... you are mainly getting honest specs a far as ohms from Emotiva ... I would leave the ohm setting on the receiver at 8 ohms, so you do not stress the receiver

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post #4 of 10 Old 11-03-2019, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YaYaDingBat View Post
L-R: (I am trying a second pair as a result of this thread)
Fluance Signature Series HiFi Two-way Bookshelf
RSL CG3 Bookshelf

Center:
RSL CG23 Monitor / Center Channel
Emotiva Airmotiv C1
NHT C Series C-LCR 3-Way Center Channel

3) I do have concerns about the Emotiva Aitmotiv C1 as it is rated at 4ohms and my receiver is 8ohms BUT the manual does discuss a way to select impedance. I will post a page from the manual and more specific question in a reply to this message.
The CG3 has a single 4" woofer, the Fluance has a 5" woofer...so of course the larger speaker would have lots more mid-bass. If you have a good sub though you might be able to overcome this.

Otherwise, a more apples-to-apples comparison would be the HTD Level 3 bookshelf speakers, which also have free return shipping.

I have read that it's better to keep the 8 ohm setting on your receiver because the 4 ohm mode just limits output/dynamics if I remember correctly.

The C1 is not a hard load to drive...when I owned one I drove it with a Panasonic receiver that was only rated to 6 ohms, but never had a problem, my receiver never got warm even.

I think once you have a chance to listen to the C1 you may find it hard to resist ordering the B1s!

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #5 of 10 Old 11-04-2019, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post
The RSL CG23 has a big smiley curve dip from 500 hz to 7 khz ... that is why the midrange sounds a little different

The Emotiva center could work for you with the old Yamaha as long as you do not try to blast the volume ... the Emotiva center does not dip below 4 ohms ... you are mainly getting honest specs a far as ohms from Emotiva ... I would leave the ohm setting on the receiver at 8 ohms, so you do not stress the receiver
Very interesting... Thank you. see my next reply on the 4,6, 8ohm topic.
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post #6 of 10 Old 11-04-2019, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
The CG3 has a single 4" woofer, the Fluance has a 5" woofer...so of course the larger speaker would have lots more mid-bass. If you have a good sub though you might be able to overcome this.

Otherwise, a more apples-to-apples comparison would be the HTD Level 3 bookshelf speakers, which also have free return shipping.

I have read that it's better to keep the 8 ohm setting on your receiver because the 4 ohm mode just limits output/dynamics if I remember correctly.

The C1 is not a hard load to drive...when I owned one I drove it with a Panasonic receiver that was only rated to 6 ohms, but never had a problem, my receiver never got warm even.

I think once you have a chance to listen to the C1 you may find it hard to resist ordering the B1s!

I was surprised both yourself and zieglj01 said to keep the setting on 8ohms. I am surprised because in all likelihood my L-Rs will be 8ohm and possibly my center would then (if I went with the Emotiva) be 4ohms.



So far the RSLs were also good for dialogue heavy cinema but that was just one test. I'm going to have to search these forums to find some good hints and testing and comparing.



One hint: Do not use Alan Parson Project's Eye in the Sky Blu-ray surround mix to check out surround mixes. It appears the vocals were not mixed heavy into the center channel but into left and right. This is unlike most 5.1-DTS mixes I have encountered which have the vocals emphasized into the center channel.



I may have detected what I thought was distortion with the NHT C-LCR Center. This wasn't sustained distortion because it was cranked. (I don't crank it.) It was very brief pinpoint episodes perhaps at the peak of attack at certain times. Again I need to go side by side to really compare apples to apples as much as possible.
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post #7 of 10 Old 11-04-2019, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YaYaDingBat View Post
One hint: Do not use Alan Parson Project's Eye in the Sky Blu-ray surround mix to check out surround mixes. It appears the vocals were not mixed heavy into the center channel but into left and right. This is unlike most 5.1-DTS mixes I have encountered which have the vocals emphasized into the center channel.
One of the best ways to test a center channel I've found is during the first 10 minutes of the (excellent) movie Gladiator, when Russell Crowe leads his Roman army into battle and is shouting instructions to them over the sounds of warfare. How clearly you can or cannot understand his voice when it's mixed in with all the competing concurrent sounds.
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #8 of 10 Old 11-06-2019, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YaYaDingBat View Post
...3) I do have concerns about the Emotiva Aitmotiv C1 as it is rated at 4ohms ....
Required reading for those with impendance concerns.
https://www.audioholics.com/audio-am...ector-switch-1

Have fun,
Frank
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post #9 of 10 Old 11-07-2019, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Required reading for those with impendance concerns.
https://www.audioholics.com/audio-am...ector-switch-1

Have fun,
Frank

Fantastic article... Ya know... It should be obvious. "Ohms" as an impedance measure is going to be frequency dependent. Of course it wouldn't a constant! Here is to getting hit with the obvious stick.
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post #10 of 10 Old 11-08-2019, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by YaYaDingBat View Post
it is 4ohm and the receiver is 8ohms...I am not sure of the significance of that fact.
Ohm's law says voltage=current*resistance (=resistance to flow of electricity. Impedance is kind of like resistance except it varies with frequency a lot and other complexities). At full volume, amplifiers "clip" at a maximum voltage. The lower the impedance, the more current the speaker will try to draw.

If the amp is not beefy enough, it will get hot, possibly shut down, possibly break, possibly gush out the fires of Hell and burn down your house. OK, that last is probably not going to happen, we hope. At LESS than maximum volume, the power is less, so the current is also less, and the amp is OK.

Here are "Head_Unit’s Rules Of Protection":
1) If when things start to sound distorted or odd you TURN IT DOWN, you are unlikely to ever break anything.
2) If you constantly "turn it up to 11" you will break something.
NOTE: the size and power ratings of the speakers and amp do not affect rules 1 and 2. (Specs for amps are often not thorough since they are measured into resistors and speakers are not resistors. Speaker specifications are 92% meaningless (and I say that as a loudspeaker engineer)).
--> Get the speakers that sound best and don't crank them into distortion.

If you decide to upgrade the amp at some point, focus on the 4 ohm power specification regardless of what speakers you will use. 4 ohm power is not a perfect measure but it's better than nothing.
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