Best floorstanders under $2K - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 66 Old 11-05-2019, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Thanks for weighing in Aaron. I suppose I should list what I feel are the strengths of the F36, the things that swayed me towards choosing them

1). 91 dB sensitivity along with 200 watts power handling. This should make them very capable for home theater
2) Spinorama data available. I know without a doubt what I am getting.
3). Beautiful piano gloss black finish...they are going in my living room
4). Love love love the look of the front baffle. Soooo clean looking. Better than Revels higher tier products imo.
5) All three 6.5” drivers provide output below 600 Hz for more surface area than even a 10” driver.
6) wide dispersion design with very good spins for, hopefully, very very good music reproduction.


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I'm concerned about the piano black fingerprint magnets
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post #32 of 66 Old 11-05-2019, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks to everyone so far for all the input. I learned about a few offerings I had never seen before. Although it wasn't my initial intent, maybe this thread will turn out to be a good resource for folks looking for a good pair of towers in this price range.
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post #33 of 66 Old 11-05-2019, 05:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Salk Songtower has always been a 2k choice. Though with shipping may just cross the line
Wow, thats a gorgeous set of speakers.
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post #34 of 66 Old 11-05-2019, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by macgallant View Post
I wasn't impressed by the klispch but dynamics are at the bottom of my priorities.

Soundstage depth, pin point imaging and off axis response is what I lean towards.
And you have the KEF Q series to accomplish all of that? We all like or value different things, that's for sure. That's what makes this hobby so much fun! Personally, I don't care for most of the KEF Q series, and I'm a KEF dealer! That doesn't mean they don't have good traits or features - they definitely have the off axis response covered with Uni-Q, which is an outstanding technology. I just think it's fun that everyone likes different stuff.

The nicer (non-THX) KEF architectural product is all voiced like Q series and is a really strong line of product. I just don't think that the Q series in-room stuff holds up to Klipsch RP or Revel Concerta2. I just think they're were too technical or clinical to me. Very polite. However, some people love that. When turned up, some Klipsch can melt faces, and be brutal. I tend to not listen THAT loudly, but everyone uses their gear differently.
I prefer the Q series over the RP series hands down for my taste. I was quite dissapointed when I demoed the rp600m and rp6000F. I though they were severely lacking in imaging and soundstage and had no depth to its soundstage as well. They where loud/ dynamic / fun but lacked refinement imo, great party speakers though. The Q series does lack a bit in dynamics especially if you dont feed them enough power. They are also more difficult/expensive to drive but you get vastly superior imaging and soundstage depth vs the RP series. This is a big advantage in HT where the Q series soundtage depth/precision adds to the HT experience.

I do prefer the concerta2 over the Q series quite a bit but its double the price here in Canada so I couldn't justify spending that much for HT.

When I get a chance to setup a dedicated 2.0 music setup the performa3 f208 will be on top of my list but the concerta2 f36 are sooo good for the price its hard to ignore !
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post #35 of 66 Old 11-05-2019, 09:15 PM
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Wow, thats a gorgeous set of speakers.
Agreed, they're stunning. Wonder if they sound as fantastic as they look.
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post #36 of 66 Old 11-06-2019, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post
If the on-axis is that bad, nothing else really matters in my opinion. I got the graph from this review: https://www.henleyaudio.co.uk/shop/p...&ProductId=937
The thing that jumped out in that review, (they did subjectively enjoy the speakers), was this which is counter to what I thought before about the Klipsch RF series.

Quote:
Moreover, impedance phase angles are high,
dropping the minimum EPDR (equivalent peak dissipation
resistance) to 1.8ohm at 96Hz. While this is no worse than
with many modern floorstanders, it means that the RF-7 III is a
moderately challenging load to drive.

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post #37 of 66 Old 11-07-2019, 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted by macgallant View Post
I wasn't impressed by the klispch but dynamics are at the bottom of my priorities.

Soundstage depth, pin point imaging and off axis response is what I lean towards.
Please give the SVS ultra towers a looks. There are some deals on those now. You will want to power them with an amp though.
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post #38 of 66 Old 11-07-2019, 05:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by macgallant View Post
I prefer the Q series over the RP series hands down for my taste. I was quite dissapointed when I demoed the rp600m and rp6000F. I though they were severely lacking in imaging and soundstage and had no depth to its soundstage as well. They where loud/ dynamic / fun but lacked refinement imo, great party speakers though. The Q series does lack a bit in dynamics especially if you dont feed them enough power. They are also more difficult/expensive to drive but you get vastly superior imaging and soundstage depth vs the RP series. This is a big advantage in HT where the Q series soundtage depth/precision adds to the HT experience.

I do prefer the concerta2 over the Q series quite a bit but its double the price here in Canada so I couldn't justify spending that much for HT.

When I get a chance to setup a dedicated 2.0 music setup the performa3 f208 will be on top of my list but the concerta2 f36 are sooo good for the price its hard to ignore !


When crossed to good quality, properly integrated subs, I’d take a pair of F36 over the F208 without subs, especially if the goal is sound quality. In fact, I’d take the F36 with subs over any pair of speakers regardless of price if they were used in an inferior way(2.0).

I never understand why folks who focus on musical sound quality settle for inferior performance by insisting on not using subs.


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post #39 of 66 Old 11-07-2019, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
When crossed to good quality, properly integrated subs, I’d take a pair of F36 over the F208 without subs, especially if the goal is sound quality. In fact, I’d take the F36 with subs over any pair of speakers regardless of price if they were used in an inferior way(2.0).

I never understand why folks who focus on musical sound quality settle for inferior performance by insisting on not using subs.


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#1 This is going to be a secondary minimalist system
#2 the optimal placement for this rooms MLP is absolutely horrible aesthetically (all 3 placement options). If i could get away with a sub i would 100%. (the many Con's of an open concept living room / kitchen)
#3 my current system is going to be moved into a dedicated H/T room where I can do wtv I want placement wise. I currently have Dual X12's, planning on have quads in a small dedicated sealed 1600 cu.ft. H/T room.
#4 I have to live with the Mrs.
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post #40 of 66 Old 11-07-2019, 09:42 AM
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Right now I would recommend the Paradigm Premier 800f series speaker. Currently they are offering a 20% trade up and you can get a pair for $1600 bucks! I just pulled the trigger myself on a pair. Lots of trickle down tech from the Prestige series. For $1600 I dont think you can do much better
Just my humble opinion.
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post #41 of 66 Old 11-07-2019, 12:38 PM
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I have a high quality musical sub in my main HT room, DD15, but when I listen to music with my towers I prefer 2.0 to be honest.

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post #42 of 66 Old 11-07-2019, 12:52 PM
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If the on-axis is that bad, nothing else really matters in my opinion. I got the graph from this review: https://www.henleyaudio.co.uk/shop/p...&ProductId=937
That would give me a headache!

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post #43 of 66 Old 11-07-2019, 12:54 PM
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Just curious about getting a variety of opinions on the topic. I’ll toss a vote out there for the Revel F36. Just ordered a set, not second guessing but interested to see what folks think on this topic. Thanks in advance for your input!
Good call -- enjoy the audio adventure
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post #44 of 66 Old 11-07-2019, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post
If the on-axis is that bad, nothing else really matters in my opinion. I got the graph from this review: https://www.henleyaudio.co.uk/shop/p...&ProductId=937
Hey, thanks! I will read through this, try to find other articles to verify, and also run this by my Klipsch factory rep and any internal engineers. I appreciate the link!
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post #45 of 66 Old 11-07-2019, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by macgallant View Post
#1 This is going to be a secondary minimalist system
#2 the optimal placement for this rooms MLP is absolutely horrible aesthetically (all 3 placement options). If i could get away with a sub i would 100%. (the many Con's of an open concept living room / kitchen)
#3 my current system is going to be moved into a dedicated H/T room where I can do wtv I want placement wise. I currently have Dual X12's, planning on have quads in a small dedicated sealed 1600 cu.ft. H/T room.
#4 I have to live with the Mrs.
Good reasons. In that case, I can certainly see the advantage of going with a speaker like the F208 that can play full range quite nicely and capably.
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post #46 of 66 Old 11-07-2019, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a high quality musical sub in my main HT room, DD15, but when I listen to music with my towers I prefer 2.0 to be honest.
Have you measured? A quality, well placed, properly integrated sub or subs will always yield better sound quality. If that doesn't matter, its totally cool. I was referring more to the notion that a 2.0 system is somehow the musically superior option when it is in fact not.

I do think there are plenty of folks who can be perfectly happy with a good set of full range speakers and no subs. In fact, my cheap little Hsu bookshelf speakers that I have in my workout room without subs are surprisingly satisfying. However, if I compare them to my main system with dual 18" subs, they would rate a 2 or 3 in comparison on a 1-10 scale. So not that a pair of towers without subs can't be enjoyed, but with a proper pair of subs, sound quality will definitely be better.

Just out of curiosity, I do intend to have a listen to my F36 without subs when they come in. But I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that they will sound substantially better with the big boys running.
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post #47 of 66 Old 11-07-2019, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rockerrr View Post
Right now I would recommend the Paradigm Premier 800f series speaker. Currently they are offering a 20% trade up and you can get a pair for $1600 bucks! I just pulled the trigger myself on a pair. Lots of trickle down tech from the Prestige series. For $1600 I dont think you can do much better
Just my humble opinion.
I love the look of their 600C center channel....I think it makes a lot of sense to offer a really wide center channel although I understand that widely placed woofers can cause serious loving/off axis issues. The spin for the C25 center channel I have on order looks shockingly good for a 2 way MTM speaker, but I expect it has to do in large part with the 5.25" woofers place *very* close together/very close to the tweeter which surely reduces losing issues. The 600c is using passive radiators on the outer edges to avoid losing issues....I just like the look of a nice wide center especially with today enormous displays.

I'm really curious to see how the new JBL HDI center channel measures and specs out with its four 5.25" woofers and 2.5 way design.
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post #48 of 66 Old 11-07-2019, 06:31 PM
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If the on-axis is that bad, nothing else really matters in my opinion. I got the graph from this review: https://www.henleyaudio.co.uk/shop/p...&ProductId=937
Curious if you or anyone else knows how that publication does their frequency response measurements?

The in-room measurements of the RF-7 III that I have seen do not show that big dip at 1 kHz.

I own them, BTW, and I don't sense a recessed midrange. I also don't find them to be bright at all, and I've owned several speakers that I considered bright and quickly moved on from them. I actually find them to be very balanced, and I've owned dozens of speakers from multiple manufacturers over the years.

I really enjoy the RF-7 III, but they are in a very large/open room, so maybe that's a factor. They can really fill a large space effortlessly in a 2.0 context.

Anyway, without knowing how that publication does their measurements and without actually hearing the speakers, I don't really understand how folks are coming to conclusions on how they sound.

-

5.1 and 2.0 ch: Marantz AV7704/Emotiva DC-1/Rotel RB-1582 MKII/Audiosource Amp Three x 2/Polk LS90, CS400i, FX500i/Outlaw X-12, LFM-1/JVD DLA-HD250/Da-Lite 100" HCCV/Sony ES BDP/Sonos Connect. DC-1/RB-1582 MKII/Sonos Connect also feed Polk 7C in garage and Dayton IO655 on patio. 2.1 ch: Denon AVR-2807/Klipsch Forte I or NHT SB2/JBL SUB 550P x 2. 2.0 ch: Outlaw 975/Outlaw M2200 x 2/Klipsch RF-7 III/Sony ES BDP/LG 65" LED. 2.0 ch: Klipsch Powergate/NHT SB3. Kitchen: Sonos Play5.
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post #49 of 66 Old 11-08-2019, 05:04 AM
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Have you measured? A quality, well placed, properly integrated sub or subs will always yield better sound quality. If that doesn't matter, its totally cool. I was referring more to the notion that a 2.0 system is somehow the musically superior option when it is in fact not.

I do think there are plenty of folks who can be perfectly happy with a good set of full range speakers and no subs. In fact, my cheap little Hsu bookshelf speakers that I have in my workout room without subs are surprisingly satisfying. However, if I compare them to my main system with dual 18" subs, they would rate a 2 or 3 in comparison on a 1-10 scale. So not that a pair of towers without subs can't be enjoyed, but with a proper pair of subs, sound quality will definitely be better.

Just out of curiosity, I do intend to have a listen to my F36 without subs when they come in. But I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that they will sound substantially better with the big boys running.
My placement situation (18" and 12" from rear and side walls, concrete behind drywall) helps to support the bass output of my F35s and I'm not trying to reproduce pipe organs or anything but I personally prefer them with my sub (DIY sealed 15") off. They integrate very well and the sub unquestionably goes deeper but the bass from the F35s is more than satisfactory to me, even on rap/electronic-type music.
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post #50 of 66 Old 11-08-2019, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by adam2434 View Post
Curious if you or anyone else knows how that publication does their frequency response measurements?

The in-room measurements of the RF-7 III that I have seen do not show that big dip at 1 kHz.

-
That measurement was all I could find on them and it's only on-axis, it's very possible that the off-axis sound fills in that dip and doesn't show in the room measurements. Either way, on-axis is important too and if that is an accurate measurement, there are better speakers out there. You could see if Klipsch has any measurements of the speaker but I haven't had luck getting measurements from any manufacturers.
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post #51 of 66 Old 11-08-2019, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Have you measured? A quality, well placed, properly integrated sub or subs will always yield better sound quality. If that doesn't matter, its totally cool. I was referring more to the notion that a 2.0 system is somehow the musically superior option when it is in fact not.

I do think there are plenty of folks who can be perfectly happy with a good set of full range speakers and no subs. In fact, my cheap little Hsu bookshelf speakers that I have in my workout room without subs are surprisingly satisfying. However, if I compare them to my main system with dual 18" subs, they would rate a 2 or 3 in comparison on a 1-10 scale. So not that a pair of towers without subs can't be enjoyed, but with a proper pair of subs, sound quality will definitely be better.

Just out of curiosity, I do intend to have a listen to my F36 without subs when they come in. But I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that they will sound substantially better with the big boys running.
I measured the sub when integrating the sub with my SPL meter and it is an "invisible" sub in that you can't tell when it's on unless you turn it off.

But it does most of its heavy lifting with movies and less so with music as the towers are "supposed" to have a -3db point of 39hz though I haven't bothered to measure that with test tones and my SPL meter.

Or my Umik and REW.

I'm just not that OCD to be honest.

It probably has more to do with the fact that once in a while I want to confirm my good sense in choosing those speakers in the first place as I heard them full range before bringing the floor models home to A/B against my existing speakers with a sub in play.

10 years on I have zero desire to "upgrade" which is valuable in and of itself!
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post #52 of 66 Old 11-09-2019, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
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OK folks, help me out. I've got the F36 in piano gloss black ordered. However, I've been eyeing them in white and starting to wonder if this might actually look better in my room. If you look in my sig, you will see I have large white built in bookshelves along the front wall. I will have to place the towers wider than optimal in order to look right, with the left speaker just to the left of the bookshelves and the other speaker unfortunately jammed in the right corner with both speakers toed in to the MLP. Piano gloss black is going to *really* stand out and be visually imposing, whereas the white might blend into the decor of the room, especially with the white grille covers on. If I want some more visual impact, I could leave the grilles off to show off the very clean front baffles with the black drivers.

I didn't realize that, much like black is the most common speaker color here in the states, white is the most common color in other countries. Just thinking about doing something different, maybe a little unique. Thoughts?
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post #53 of 66 Old 11-09-2019, 07:49 AM
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for my money best floor standing is a DIY 1099 :-)

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post #54 of 66 Old 11-09-2019, 08:19 AM
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OK folks, help me out. I've got the F36 in piano gloss black ordered. However, I've been eyeing them in white and starting to wonder if this might actually look better in my room. If you look in my sig, you will see I have large white built in bookshelves along the front wall. I will have to place the towers wider than optimal in order to look right, with the left speaker just to the left of the bookshelves and the other speaker unfortunately jammed in the right corner with both speakers toed in to the MLP. Piano gloss black is going to *really* stand out and be visually imposing, whereas the white might blend into the decor of the room, especially with the white grille covers on. If I want some more visual impact, I could leave the grilles off to show off the very clean front baffles with the black drivers.

I didn't realize that, much like black is the most common speaker color here in the states, white is the most common color in other countries. Just thinking about doing something different, maybe a little unique. Thoughts?
I think the white might be the ticket In your room. One other plus is it won’t show prints, dust, or swirls in the finish nearly as much either.
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post #55 of 66 Old 11-09-2019, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lemonslush View Post
for my money best floor standing is a DIY 1099 :-)
For home theater, I would probably agree. However, for music, I have a feeling the wide dispersion design of a speaker like Revel would easily win in blind testing. I have speakers using the same waveguide and compression driver of the 1099(so basically the same above 1500Hz). I'll try to do an unbiased comparison when my F36 pair come in. At this point the easiest way to do so(that I can think of) will be to crossover the speakers at 80 Hz without subs in order to more easily level match. Otherwise the subs *and* MV will have to be adjusted in order to level match when crossed to subs. Using 80 Hz crossover without the subs turned on will level the playing field in regards to extension. The challenge I see is that I feel the response below 200 Hz needs to be eq'd for each speakers unless their response in this region ends up being very similar.

I think its easy to have high expectations of an upgrade which will lead to unintentional bias that cannot be eliminated whether we want to or not, regardless of how hard we "try". I tried to be very critical of my last speakers and honestly listen for things without the expectation of them being the greatest thing since sliced bread since they were my new shiny toy. I will attempt to be as critical with the Revels.

I'm open to suggestions from members on the easiest and cheapest way to A/B switch between speakers.

I want to be able to switch and level match instantly. I would be fine if there was a reasonable cost involved to do so even if it was a DIY solution.
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post #56 of 66 Old 11-09-2019, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Thoughts?
Either could work. The black speakers will bring some color symmetry and balance to your black OLED/LED/or whatever panel.

For home theater geeks, the oft-sited negative of white speakers is that they reflect more, adding unnecessary visual distraction from your screen viewing focus/immersion.

But because it's a mixed room and the speakers would be pretty far apart anyway (and no center channel being employed under the screen?), that shouldn't be an issue at all.

I personally would lean with going white but I can make either case here. I've always thought black audio/video components were too visually oppressive or sore-thumb-ish, in most typical living room "homey" environments (lots of woods and earth tones). Plus, white seems purer or cleaner looking to me, in general. But I wouldn't hate black in your room.
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post #57 of 66 Old 11-09-2019, 01:32 PM
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Then there are the Emotiva holiday ads...

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HT: Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings) | NAD T758 V3 | Buchardt S400 (2) | Polk LSiM 702 F/X (2) | Infinity RS152 (4) | Subs TBD (2)
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post #58 of 66 Old 11-09-2019, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Then there are the Emotiva holiday ads...

Attachment 2638640
Where did you see that?

Curious why they'd feature the T Zeros, which appear to have been discontinued and have vanished from their website...must be for the small/petite high WAF factor, if they're aiming at a mass audience.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #59 of 66 Old 11-09-2019, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
OK folks, help me out. I've got the F36 in piano gloss black ordered. However, I've been eyeing them in white and starting to wonder if this might actually look better in my room. If you look in my sig, you will see I have large white built in bookshelves along the front wall. I will have to place the towers wider than optimal in order to look right, with the left speaker just to the left of the bookshelves and the other speaker unfortunately jammed in the right corner with both speakers toed in to the MLP. Piano gloss black is going to *really* stand out and be visually imposing, whereas the white might blend into the decor of the room, especially with the white grille covers on.
Maybe check with Revel (Harman) and see about getting some white grills, if the cost is not too much.

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post #60 of 66 Old 11-10-2019, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Where did you see that?

Curious why they'd feature the T Zeros, which appear to have been discontinued and have vanished from their website...must be for the small/petite high WAF factor, if they're aiming at a mass audience.
Still there.

https://emotiva.com/collections/loud...rmotiv-t0-pair

Geoff A. J., California
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