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post #1 of 34 Old 11-05-2019, 11:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Another 3.1

I just moved into a new(to me) townhouse and I have two tv rooms in need of an audio solution. The first is a living room that will see general music, tv, streaming and movies. For the tv I am limited to a 3.1 system. A soundbar/sub is ideal to appease the wife’s aesthetics. If I could come up with a slick way to place bookshelves and a center, I would. However, I’m not sure it can be done in an acceptable way. Tv stand is custom and the width of a 55” tv. No room to the right or left for bookshelves. Wife won’t go for stands. If anyone has any ideas for how to avoid a soundbar in the living room, I’m game. On wall speakers may work for the L/R.

The basement tv room is easier. I’ll start with a 3.1 system and add surround over time. This area will be more sports, movies, gaming focused, with some music as well. Both rooms are L shaped. With similar dimensions, since the town home is just a stack of equal sized floors. The main segment of the L used is 22x13’. The tv is on the 13’ wall in both cases.

I’m looking for advice on bookshelf and center channel speakers, a sub, and an avr for the basement. I’d like to spend about 5-700 on the LCR, <400 on the avr, and I hear that I have to spend $500+ on a sub, though I’d like to spend less. I’m good with bstock/factory refurb. For speakers, I’m considering, HTD, ascend, hsu, chane, and Klipsch. For avr, I’m considering bstock 2019 Denon. For subs I’m clueless, though seems like scs is the way to go.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Let me know if more info is needed.

Cheers
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post #2 of 34 Old 11-06-2019, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goblutes View Post
I just moved into a new(to me) townhouse and I have two tv rooms in need of an audio solution. The first is a living room that will see general music, tv, streaming and movies. For the tv I am limited to a 3.1 system. A soundbar/sub is ideal to appease the wife’s aesthetics. If I could come up with a slick way to place bookshelves and a center, I would. However, I’m not sure it can be done in an acceptable way. Tv stand is custom and the width of a 55” tv. No room to the right or left for bookshelves. Wife won’t go for stands. If anyone has any ideas for how to avoid a soundbar in the living room, I’m game. On wall speakers may work for the L/R.

The basement tv room is easier. I’ll start with a 3.1 system and add surround over time. This area will be more sports, movies, gaming focused, with some music as well. Both rooms are L shaped. With similar dimensions, since the town home is just a stack of equal sized floors. The main segment of the L used is 22x13’. The tv is on the 13’ wall in both cases.

I’m looking for advice on bookshelf and center channel speakers, a sub, and an avr for the basement. I’d like to spend about 5-700 on the LCR, <400 on the avr, and I hear that I have to spend $500+ on a sub, though I’d like to spend less. I’m good with bstock/factory refurb. For speakers, I’m considering, HTD, ascend, hsu, chane, and Klipsch. For avr, I’m considering bstock 2019 Denon. For subs I’m clueless, though seems like scs is the way to go.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Let me know if more info is needed.

Cheers
Free returns if not happy.

The CG23s could be placed horizontally end to end essentially making one 55" "soundbar" under the TV with 6 4" main drivers and three 1" silk dome tweeters.

The RSL sub is a solid little powerhouse.

https://rslspeakers.com/products/new...heater-system/

AVR:

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-qlyHib...saAjXhEALw_wcB

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_033AVX....html?skipvs=T

If you want a different system for the other room there are many options.

Subwoofers:

PORTED SUBWOOFERS $600 AND BELOW, DELIVERED

NOTE:
*THE LARGER PORTED SUBS DELIVER AT LEAST 40% MORE SOUND PRESSURE LEVEL
THAN THE SAME BRAND'S SEALED VERSION WITH SAME SIZE WOOFER AND AMP
*IF LOOKING AT LARGER/MORE EXPENSIVE SUBWOOFERS ADD PSA TO THE LIST OF BRANDS
*IF YOU ARE NOT AN ACTION MOVIE FAN A SUBWOOFER WITH 22-30HZ EXTENSION WOULD BE FINE
*FOR MUSIC A 30HZ SUB IS A FINE CHOICE
*BEFORE BUYING MAKE A CARDBOARD CUTOUT OF THE SIZE OF THE SUB TO MAKE SURE IT IS NOT TOO LARGE FOR YOU
Specs are from the manufacturer unless noted otherwise.
Warranty
for AMP

3 years 120watts =13w15h16d= 29 lbs 10" [29hz] $199 MARTIN LOGAN DYNAMO 500, limited time offer

2 years 350watts =15w16h17d= 40 lbs 10" [30hz] $399 RSL SPEEDWOOFER 10S, (extension from Sound & Vision review)

2 years 250watts =15w19h17d= 42 lbs 10" [25hz] $455 HSU VTF 1 MK3 (extension from Audioholics review)

5 years 300watts =15w19h20d= 46 lbs 10" [18hz] $499 SVS PB1000, (extension from Sound & Vision Review)

5 years 500watts =15w19h20d= 72 lbs 10" [20hz] $500 MONOPRICE MONOLITH THX 10"

3 years 300watts =16w22h21d= 69 lbs* 12" [19hz] $569 RHYTHMIK LV12F

2 years 350watts =15w21h22d= 62 lbs 12" [18hz] $607 HSU VTF2 MK5, (extension from Audioholics review)
* = shipping weight
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post #3 of 34 Old 11-06-2019, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goblutes View Post
I just moved into a new(to me) townhouse and I have two tv rooms in need of an audio solution. The first is a living room that will see general music, tv, streaming and movies. For the tv I am limited to a 3.1 system. A soundbar/sub is ideal to appease the wife’s aesthetics. If I could come up with a slick way to place bookshelves and a center, I would. However, I’m not sure it can be done in an acceptable way. Tv stand is custom and the width of a 55” tv. No room to the right or left for bookshelves. Wife won’t go for stands. If anyone has any ideas for how to avoid a soundbar in the living room, I’m game. On wall speakers may work for the L/R.

The basement tv room is easier. I’ll start with a 3.1 system and add surround over time. This area will be more sports, movies, gaming focused, with some music as well. Both rooms are L shaped. With similar dimensions, since the town home is just a stack of equal sized floors. The main segment of the L used is 22x13’. The tv is on the 13’ wall in both cases.

I’m looking for advice on bookshelf and center channel speakers, a sub, and an avr for the basement. I’d like to spend about 5-700 on the LCR, <400 on the avr, and I hear that I have to spend $500+ on a sub, though I’d like to spend less. I’m good with bstock/factory refurb. For speakers, I’m considering, HTD, ascend, hsu, chane, and Klipsch. For avr, I’m considering bstock 2019 Denon. For subs I’m clueless, though seems like scs is the way to go.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Let me know if more info is needed.

Cheers
Setup #1 in the main living room. NHT Super ones are sealed so can be flush mounted to the wall and eliminates stands and bulky wall mounts to keep the wife happy.
https://www.amazon.com/NHT-SuperOne-...xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Setup #2 in the basement. The setup @gajCA recommended is a great option. Chane would provide excellent performance, but would challenge your budget a little. As for subs, the list provided above are all good options.
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post #4 of 34 Old 11-11-2019, 05:55 AM - Thread Starter
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@gajCA Thanks for the suggestions. I love the idea of using 3 centers as a sound bar. I assume this could work for any set of centers?

Awesome sub info, thanks!
@pase22 thanks! I’ll look at the NHTs and consider the Chane options as well.
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post #5 of 34 Old 11-11-2019, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Right now I can get NHT speakers with 25% off.

How might I rank what we’ve discussed (RSL, NHT, Chane, etc.)?
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post #6 of 34 Old 11-11-2019, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Any opinion on the NHT sub?
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post #7 of 34 Old 11-11-2019, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by goblutes View Post
Right now I can get NHT speakers with 25% off.

How might I rank what we’ve discussed (RSL, NHT, Chane, etc.)?
I'd rank RSL first because the others do not offer free return shipping.

As to the NHT sub, unless you are buying one used that is not too old for $250 or so they are overpriced compared to the subs I listed.

Their cheapest sub is $500 is sealed, thus having less output, and is only spec'd down to 34hz with its 250 watt amp and 10" main driver.

The best combo of three centers would be with raised tweeters but you might find the RSLs work just fine and, without question, they should sound head and shoulders better than most any soundbar at twice the price.
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post #8 of 34 Old 11-11-2019, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by goblutes View Post
Right now I can get NHT speakers with 25% off.

How might I rank what we’ve discussed (RSL, NHT, Chane, etc.)?

The main segment of the L used is 22x13’.
What is the total contiguous space of the rooms? This is essential when assessing your subwoofer needs---your sub will interact with ALL the space not just the listening area. So if it's an open plan with several rooms combined, I'd suggest a robust 15" sub like the Hsu VTF-3.

Your budget can handle this if you go with Amazon's open-box NHT Superones, which are around $100 apiece shipped...get 3 for your LCR.

Denon x1500 is on sale for $300 shipped, brand new, from crutchfield.com

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)

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post #9 of 34 Old 11-11-2019, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by goblutes View Post
Right now I can get NHT speakers with 25% off.

How might I rank what we’ve discussed (RSL, NHT, Chane, etc.)?
I would favor Chane -- flip a coin between RSL and NHT

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post #10 of 34 Old 11-11-2019, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by goblutes View Post
Right now I can get NHT speakers with 25% off.

How might I rank what we’ve discussed (RSL, NHT, Chane, etc.)?
Chane will play louder, good speakers that are well reviewed, but lose points on aesthetics. RSL well rounded speaker, well reviewed, can get pretty loud with a mid level AVR with good aesthetics. NHT, budget friendly and good option if you have space constraints and WAF to contend with. None of these are a bad option.

As far as the sub goes, you'd get much more sub per dollar with HSU or Rythmik and these subs can play down below 20hz.
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post #11 of 34 Old 11-13-2019, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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@gajCA

Free returns is a nice way to audition the RSL option.

Good copy on the NHT sub. Any recommended subs offer wireless other than RSL?

Raised tweeters? In the ceiling?

Investment wise I don’t want to invest in the avr over speakers. But in this case I would need to buy an avr to get me started. Would the x1500h/x1600h suffice for both rooms?
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@zieglj01

Any other options out there? You recommended HTD recently.
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@pase22
Thanks for the breakdown, and the sub options.
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post #15 of 34 Old 11-13-2019, 09:49 PM
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I'd get the VTF-2 for the basement, and ideally the VTF-3 for the living room.

If you can get the SuperOnes for $135 apiece shipped and brand new, that's a no-brainer compared to what else is available at that price range, IMO...especially if it enables you to get the subwoofers you really need.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #16 of 34 Old 11-13-2019, 11:17 PM
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Hmm...I'll add another opinion, whether it's worth anything isn't my call to make .

$350 isn't a far cry from $270, which gets you HTD Level Three's. They will be a clear step up from the SuperOnes and are probably the best speaker at $350/pair, along with the Chane A1.5s which also lurk at that price - I have not heard both so I can't comment on how they compare.

Clearly audible differences for the money spent.

For subs, the good ones start at $400 with the RSL Speedwoofer, and take a good leap in performance at the $500-600 level. That's where the fun begins with Rythmik and HSU Research. Then there is always DIY for greater bang/buck.

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@zieglj01

Any other options out there? You recommended HTD recently.
yes, they are an option

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post #18 of 34 Old 11-14-2019, 04:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I'd get the VTF-2 for the basement, and ideally the VTF-3 for the living room.



If you can get the SuperOnes for $135 apiece shipped and brand new, that's a no-brainer compared to what else is available at that price range, IMO...especially if it enables you to get the subwoofers you really need.


Supercenters for $125 each on amazon. Super ones are 131 on NHT. Seems like a pretty good deal. Might pick up some centers at least to make a soundbar.
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@gajCA

Free returns is a nice way to audition the RSL option.

Good copy on the NHT sub. Any recommended subs offer wireless other than RSL?

Raised tweeters? In the ceiling?

Investment wise I don’t want to invest in the avr over speakers. But in this case I would need to buy an avr to get me started. Would the x1500h/x1600h suffice for both rooms?
Unless you want concert level volumes in your relatively large spaces, and are sitting far away from the speaker the Denon 1500 should provide plenty of volume as it does in my friend's large space using some older Infinity speakers IIRC.

Polk makes solid in ceiling speakers and RSL makes excellent ones.

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Supercenters for $125 each on amazon. Super ones are 131 on NHT. Seems like a pretty good deal. Might pick up some centers at least to make a soundbar.
I'd steer clear of the SuperCenter, a number of mixed reviews on them...teensy 4" woofers with an unraised tweeter are not a great idea.

You'd be much better off using a 3rd SuperOne on its side as the center, or go with a mismatched center like an Emotiva C1/C2, Chane A2.4, etc. Just disregard the "timbre matching" folklore.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Hmm...I'll add another opinion, whether it's worth anything isn't my call to make .

$350 isn't a far cry from $270, which gets you HTD Level Three's. They will be a clear step up from the SuperOnes and are probably the best speaker at $350/pair, along with the Chane A1.5s which also lurk at that price - I have not heard both so I can't comment on how they compare.

HOWEVER, while supplies last, this is your #1 $350 speaker pair by a good margin: https://www.adorama.com/pkalsm703mvc...ce=rflaid62905 (scroll down to the LSiM 703 Bookshelf Speaker in Mt Vernon Cherry)

They are normally $600-700/pair. Unfortunately the 706c center speaker has sold out, but the Emotiva C2 is a strong alternative.

Clearly audible differences for the money spent.

For subs, the good ones start at $400 with the RSL Speedwoofer, and take a good leap in performance at the $500-600 level. That's where the fun begins with Rythmik and HSU Research. Then there is always DIY for greater bang/buck.
i believe that link(polk 703) is *per speaker*.. i haven't seen them below $450 /pair yet ..

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i believe that link(polk 703) is *per speaker*.. i haven't seen them below $450 /pair yet ..
Yep, still at $449 a pair in Cherry or Black
https://www.adorama.com/pklsm703mvc2...ce=rflaid62905
https://www.adorama.com/pklsim703b2....ce=rflaid62905
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post #23 of 34 Old 11-14-2019, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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unraised tweeter are not a great idea.

Can you explain the raised/unraised tweeter? Do you mean the tweeter is parallel to the woofer on the center channel cabinet, which is bad?
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post #24 of 34 Old 11-14-2019, 12:34 PM
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Can you explain the raised/unraised tweeter? Do you mean the tweeter is parallel to the woofer on the center channel cabinet, which is bad?
It's sometimes called a "nested" design:
https://www.audioholics.com/loudspea...nnel-designs-1

https://www.audioholics.com/loudspea...valuation.html

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #25 of 34 Old 11-14-2019, 12:45 PM
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Can you explain the raised/unraised tweeter? Do you mean the tweeter is parallel to the woofer on the center channel cabinet, which is bad?
In theory having a tweeter directly in between the two main drivers causes "lobing" issues as you move from the far right of a four person couch to the far left with the center position(s) being best.

It has been "proven" with graphs and charts but, to be honest, most of us neanderthals here on AVS don't notice a "dropoff" in dialog clarity or frequency response.

A raised tweeter is said to be better, a three way center better still and an identical speaker oriented the same was as the left and right is said to be the ideal.

Me?

I don't notice lobing issues in my secondary room where the seating positions are varied and the center is the "worst" design.

Neither do I notice it in my main room with the raised tweeter so not sure you'd notice a difference.

Easy enough to test yourself by ordering this 3.1 system and sending it back if not happy as returns are free.

https://rslspeakers.com/products/new...heater-system/
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post #26 of 34 Old 11-14-2019, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
i believe that link(polk 703) is *per speaker*.. i haven't seen them below $450 /pair yet ..
Thanks. I thought I verified that but I think it was past my bedtime.
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post #27 of 34 Old 11-14-2019, 06:25 PM
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Thanks. I thought I verified that but I think it was past my bedtime.
i think i woulda jumped on $350 a pair..at that price a guy could sell em for almost the same price pretty quick...

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r Dennis Murphy modded emotiva b1's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... infinity alpha 20 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. ascend cbm 170 se... kef q100 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #28 of 34 Old 11-14-2019, 07:46 PM
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In theory having a tweeter directly in between the two main drivers causes "lobing" issues as you move from the far right of a four person couch to the far left with the center position(s) being best. It has been "proven" with graphs and charts but, to be honest, most of us neanderthals here on AVS don't notice a "dropoff" in dialog clarity or frequency response.
I agree, and would happily put myself in that "neanderthal" category.

However, all the really BAD centers I've come across have been un-nested MTMs with 4" woofers.

The RSL CG23 might be the one exception, from what I've read. And maybe the JBL Studio 520.

There are plenty of good non-nested MTMs with 5.25" to 6.5" drivers, like the Ascend 340SE, Chane A2.4, etc.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #29 of 34 Old 11-14-2019, 07:47 PM
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i think i woulda jumped on $350 a pair..at that price a guy could sell em for almost the same price pretty quick...
There's a guy in my area selling a pair of Sierra 1 for $350, damn tempting!!!
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #30 of 34 Old 11-15-2019, 08:38 AM
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There's a guy in my area selling a pair of Sierra 1 for $350, damn tempting!!!
I thought you promised your wife you were "reformed"?
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