Hello all! I've been lurking on your forums for the past couple of weeks trying to distill all the great information you're all bringing to the table; very much a newbie but have also always appreciated great sound. I've decided to reach out and ask for opinions/advice on my HT setup options.

I've just inherited a Epson 5020UB projector with a 9' screen and have it setup in a ~12'x12' room in the basement. Not top notch I know but damn the free price is right!! I could see an upgrade in the next few years though.

To celebrate my latest good fortune I thought I'd setup a 5.1.4 HT system (80%HT use 20%music use est.). After using the google and mining these forums I've decided on a Denon AVR-X3600H. 9.2 channels with 11 processing leaves me room for upgrades in my future while meeting my current goals.

Now this brings me to me speaker choices dilemma. I'm leaning towards used to max out my value for my money. Speaker budget is $1,500 excluding receiver and ceiling speakers. Unfortunately I live 2hrs away from the nearest major center up in northern Canada; so I'm going to make a trip out of it, but that also means normal audio sampling/testing just is not logistically viable. Here are some of my thoughts from the options available right now:

-Assume excellent shape for all-

Klipsh full 5.1: RS42BII X2 bookshelves, RC52BII center, RF62BII X2 floor towers, KSW10 subwoofer. Easy one stop shop, forum opinion is they can be bright and harsh to some, but also detailed and revealing (polarized opnions), subwoofer does not have great reviews. Asking price 1,500 in excellent shape, likely could get them for 1,250.

PSB Alpha full 5.1: T1's, C1, matching bookshelves, and PSB subseries 1. The sub doesn't seem very impressive so may have to upgrade that. Asking price $800

Or build around value towers?

Energy RC-70 floor towers: Alot of really great reviews for these speakers. Tend to be more neutral / less fatiguing and really excels with acoustic material. Might be tough to match center channel; there is a Energy center speaker ecc-1r for sale for $40.00 but I'm concerned that they may not tonally match and would hate to go through the effort only to be distracted by something like that. Asking price $275.00. This leaves lots of room for the rest of the setup. Polk, Paradigm, Kef C1 bookshelves for ~200 and blow the rest of the budget on a subwoofer (s).

JBL E-60 with EC-25 center $320
Paradigm monitor 7v4 with cc170v4 $600

Or build around higher quality more expensive towers and ignore center channel matching?

Kef IQ9's $800
Dali Ikon 7 $900.00
Paradigm Monitor 7V6 $600
Paradigm Monitor 7V5 $500
Mission M66i $550
Klipsh RF20 $630

-I'm sorry for the novel! I'm interested to hear some opinions though.

Build around higher quality

80% HT in a 12 x 12' room, towers = complete waste of money.

In Canada, your speaker choices are usually slim and grossly overpriced compared to the US... HOWEVER, there is currently *one* option which is shockingly less LESS expensive in Canada than in the US, for some excellent speakers:
https://www.amazon.ca/NHT-Audio-Supe...dp/B00LJX4HCY/

You can find more customer reviews of them on US Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/NHT-SuperOne-...dp/B00LJX4HCY/

I have no idea how Amazon.ca does it, but if I were you I'd grab 3 of those for your fronts (having the center be identical to the L/R is actually the acoustic ideal). NHTs are known for their accuracy and neutrality, so they will do music and HT equally well. Extra bonus is that these are sealed cabinet speakers so they don't need any rear clearance unlike a traditional rear-ported speaker. They also have a beautiful glossy finish which the photos don't do any justice to. If I were in Canada these would be my first choice.

For your surrounds and/or Atmos speakers you can simply use NHT SuperZeros or NHT upfirings:
https://www.amazon.ca/s?k=nht+superz...f=nb_sb_noss_2

And get this SVS for your sub:
https://www.electronicsforless.ca/sv...ofer-3884.html

Yeah I can do that. Pick up the Dali Ikon 7's, pair them with a Paradigm CC-370 V.4 Center speaker for $125.00, pick one of the 200 bookshelves, and find a sub. Thanks! I'll dig more into the sound signatures of the towers available to me now before committing to any of them.

[QUOTE=Zorba922;58814504]80% HT in a 12 x 12' room, towers = complete waste of money.

Oh interesting I haven't heard that take yet. Makes sense though; small room doesn't need much for great sound, though the room does not have a rear wall that and opens to the rest of the basement instead. Amazon.ca is amazing!! Love my prime membership. One caveat though is shipping to rural isolated areas is generally not very easy to do with any objects of decent size. Canada post will not handle them. Worth looking into though, thank you!

You don't think some ceiling speakers would work good in this space? Something like 4 of these for atmos?

MTX 6.5" 2-Way 50W RMS 8 Ohm In-Ceiling Speakers - Pair ($68.00 a pair on sale right now near-ish me.)

I would aim for these Paradigm Monitor speakers -- then get that used Paradigm center that you posted
https://gibbyselectronicsupermarket....atom-blk-pair/

Then get a pair of the Pioneer for surrounds -- and the SVS sub ... this would make a nice starter system
https://gibbyselectronicsupermarket....speakers-pair/

You can use in-ceiling for Atmos

Another person suggesting bookshelves all around, I think I'm sold on that idea for sure. No sense sinking money where it's not needed. I'll see how hard it is for me to get my hands on the bookshelves suggested here so far. Shipping to my isolated rural location can be a challenge with Canada post and only a rural address. I may poke around Best Buy and Visions audio since bookshelves are more budget friendly new.

Lots of love for that SVS sub all over the interwebs! Again I'll see what I can do to get ahold of something like that, would love to own it.

Thanks again!

From the literature I've gone through on Atmos, generally it's been strongly encouraged to go with in-ceiling. My small space might not be the best for 4 speakers but meh. The price is honestly right, not much power is needed and I enjoy the challenge.

Go to Visions and look at some of their speakers

Thank you for the direction, and help. That's exactly what I will do, I was planning on picking up my receiver there anyway.

oh that's fine, anything can be used for Atmos and in-ceilings are better than upfiring.

Most newbies are never told that the center does 70-80% of the HT output, and 99% of the DIALOGUE.

It's the true workhorse and backbone of any HT setup. And contrary to popular superstition, there is no need to match the center to the L/R speakers if it's not financially or logistically convenient.

This is the last area where you want to cut corners. Order of importance:

1. Center speaker (vertical bookshelf identical to L/R would be the acoustic ideal, but few people can manage this)
2. Subwoofer(s)
3. Front L/R
4. Receiver
5. Surrounds
6. Atmos speakers

[quote=Saskywatch;58814580] Amazon generally uses 3rd party couriers if you have a Prime membership. I've never heard of CP denying shipment of anything if it's within their size/weight parameters, but being in a rural area might hinder things a fair bit, I imagine. You might also have the option to have the package delivered to a more central location (i.e. the nearest post office), which could open up more opportunities in that regard. It's a feature I rarely use on Amazon, but I know it's there if I need it for whatever reason.

Being Canadian as well, it can be a bit of a pain in the you-know-what as far as access to the things our American counterparts have. It would be absolutely wonderful if we didn't have to deal with horrid exchange rates, duty, and increased shipping costs because a U.S. ID company would probably be the ideal option.

A lot of good suggestions here.

That's great information. This makes alot of sense since surround codecs will be placing the greatest emphases on the center of action ie. the middle of the screen!

I think that I will make the trek to the city today and demo some KEF Q150's bookshelves paired with the KEF Q250C or Q650C center channels. The pioneers suggested to me earlier for surrounds and the MTX's for ceiling speakers. There's some decent sales on right now, and going to an actual storefront means I can demo some sound signatures efficiently.

https://www.visions.ca/product-detai...Id=0&sku=Q150B

https://www.visions.ca/product-detai...d=0&sku=Q250CB

https://www.visions.ca/product-detai...d=0&sku=Q650CB

https://www.visions.ca/product-detai...0&sku=SPBS22LR

https://www.visions.ca/product-detai...165&sku=ICM612

[quote=Ryan Statz;58815216] Love the great white north but wow it has it's inconveniences lol. I've had at least 40-50% of my amazon orders not be shippable to P.O. box. I have used Canada posts flex delivery and it's handy but that still won't allow me to order atv hand warmers through amazon.There are workarounds like renting an account with UPS and being able to ship to they're center from any courier. But again that's at another cost.

I'm a big Kef fan as you can see in my signature, but their centers are way too expensive if on a $1500 budget. You'd be better off going with a 3rd Q150. The used market is a great option as well.

You can save some money on the AVR at Gibbys. This may open up some funds for real HT sub like an SVS PB-1000
https://gibbyselectronicsupermarket....on-avr-x1500h/
https://www.electronicsforless.ca/sv...ofer-3884.html

I'd skip the Andrew Jones speakers, Pioneer must've paid out big time for all the glowing online reviews but they are known to be subpar for HT though ok for music if you like a warm fuzzy sound...run like hell from the infamous CP-22 center speaker especially.

If you decide you like the Q150, see if the dealer will sell you one as a single, for use as a center. KEF really price gouges the bejesus out of you for their center speakers, knowing full well that most consumers are easily suckered by the prevalent "timbre match or die" folklore that salesmen love to push.

Two other options I'd look into are Emotiva and RSL speakers...these are US based companies but they do ship to Canada, you just have to call or email them to ask for a price that includes shipping.

PS. Canada does have one homegrown internet direct speaker company: Fluance. Great prices, though they are known to be a bit on the bright side which for music is not great but for HT is tolerable esp. with a lot of EQing. Best thing is, they give you free return shipping. I'd definitely look at them for surrounds and maybe even front L/R if it allows you more budget for an SVS sub and a really good center speaker.

https://www.fluance.com/bookshelf-su...polar-speakers

That said, I'd still take the NHT SuperOne at $155CAD each, over the rest.

He can also order direct from PSB or even Axiom (if new isn't 100% important, he can check out their B-stock/refurb section to get things a little cheaper).

I think HTD would be another good option even if it's US-based. Their pricing is pretty decent, and the quote I asked from them once regarding one of their subs prior to settling on the HSU ULS-15 instead was ridiculously good.

Had to cancel my plans to demo the KEF's. Just got a line on 2 used SVS-PB1000's. And I believe this sub could be a real cornerstone to the system. Trying to convince him to sell them separately. For now he's wanting to pair them with Magnapan MMG's though, I'm not sure but I don't think that fits me very well lol.

When you are able and want to look and listen for testing/audition -- the KEF bookshelf options are still solid for the front 3 if you like them ... the Pioneer BS22 speakers are a good option for surround use, and can handle the surround effects.

Yes I'm definitely still interested in the KEF bookshelves, likely as the LCR. The internet certainly has alot of love for them. Haven't ruled out the BS22's yet as the price is very reasonable. Another option I'm debating is just using the cubes from a hand me down Bose Acoustimass setup I already have for free, as the rear surrounds temporarily. Though I know there is no love lost on those things anywhere, they may just work to until I settle my mind on the surrounds or wait for what I order to be shipped to me if that's possible.

I have to say this forum is amazing! I feel much more informed, invested in this system and very excited for whatever I decide on finally.

That Denon AVR-X1500H is an option I never considered fully. The price is certainly better, though it would have to be shipped. I think between the 80WPC and lack of two more channels for the better Atmos might break the deal for me though. Thank you for the suggestion though.

I did have a set of the Pioneer BS22s (even the oft-derided C22) before moving to the Polk RTiAs I currently have (I would even argue to have a look at them since they have been pretty inexpensive lately). They are, as Zorba described, warm and fuzzy. I think they'll do just fine as surrounds, and they did pretty okay for music (since they are warmer-sounding, they suit music decently well).

KEF is an excellent option, though. I bought a pair of Q150s a few months ago that I have, unfortunately, not unboxed yet because I am slow, and a procrastinator when it comes to setting things up. I bought them for a dedicated music set up, and I have been trying to figure out placement/logistics all the while trying to avoid spending any more money than I already have on this stuff since June.

Haha, as I look around my house and yard I can see many projects waiting on time or the drive to get them all done. You are not alone, lol. Priorities though 1. Have kickass system for family to enjoy together at Christmas time when we all get together this year. Hopefully blow the little niece and nephews mind with 9' cartoons . The other stuff can wait for now.

I have a 20x14x9 room and I run all small bookshelfs - 30yr old Mordaunt Short MS3.20 for listener level and MS3.10 (identical to MS3.20 except slightly shorter enclosure) heights in a 7.4.7 and AT screen setup
With decent subwoofers these little (4.5" midrange drivers) speakers still run at 0MV and have no problem playing loud enough. Although over 0MV they do start to struggle but I rarely play louder than -10.
I found a significant improvement in the soundfield when I "downgraded" from Mordaunt Short towers and large bookshelfs which were all similar but not identical.
So not necessary, but I would suggest if you can, to have as close to identical speakers as you can get and using bookshelfs will certainly help the budget to do that.


On a side note I live in remote country Western Australia - 400kms (250mi) from the nearest city (Perth). I bought all my gear secondhand and would generally have it couriered to the depot in Perth from the other side of Australia and would then pick it up whenever I went down to the big smoke. Generally if the freight bill from say Sydney to Perth was $10 they would then want $100 to send it the rest of the way to me here in Geraldton
So I feel your pain but I also managed to build my entire set up secondhand :


14 x Mordaunt Short speakers
SGR 15" sub (high end Aussie manufacturer)
4 x Pioneer subs
Optoma HD50 projector
DIY Spandex screen
Yamaha RX-A3040 AVR


for a total cost of around $3000USD

It's a pain living remotely, but the benefits really are pretty worth it for me. 430 acres all my own on a beautiful little secluded lake. Also you know who tells me to turn it down when the music is too loud? No one, ever lol.

You got 430 acres in Saskatchewan? I would have guessed 174 hectares.