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post #1 of 36 Old 11-13-2019, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
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newby need advice please

Hi all. I am a new audio addict. I started off 2 months ago with a $1000 budget and after a few auditions, and a low price thrown to me on a pair of speakers, I ended up with a Marantz 6014 and a pair of Bowers and Wilkins 702s2's. I hadn't researched them much, and really sort of bought them on impulse with the price I was given. I got home and hooked them up and was instantly dissatisfied. I tried to like the set up over a week, and started researching the speakers. I had demoed speakers at Best Buy and heard the same speakers (most of what they have at Magnolia) on a bunch of different amps. The Arcams and the Mcintosh having the best sound, and the Marantz having the best sound out of the 4 lower end, price wise, models I heard. I decided to demo an Arcam AVR 390 (Best Buy let me take it home for a cpl weeks). I think the sound is better, but havent had enough time with it to decide if I can live with the combo (Arcam + 702s). Anyways, sorry being long winded and apologize if I sound like noob but I am. I am also OCD and a quick learner so I have learned a lot in the last few weeks. The dealer I got the Marantz and the 702s from also sells Arcam, which I did not know. They are willing to work with me exchanging out anything. So I could take back the Marantz, get and Arcam, and keep the 702s. (Ill return the demo Arcam back to Best Buy, no issues there). I am also considering returning the 702s and getting the Revel 708s. I can get all of this done for around about the same money, the shop here has great prices and really wants to get me what makes me happy. Am I crazy or are the 702s amazing sometimes, and just plain harsh at others? It may just be my untrained ears I really dont know. I want to be happy with I end up with, spending this kind of money. Any feedback or advice is recommended. My room sucks, I am going to work on that. I tired Audessy on the Marantz, I think I was able to make the adjustments better myself. I havent ran Dirac yet on the Arcam, but it sounds better than the Marantz right out of the box. Made some basic adjustments. THANKS!
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post #2 of 36 Old 11-13-2019, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyATX View Post
Am I crazy or are the 702s amazing sometimes, and just plain harsh at others? It may just be my untrained ears I really dont know. I want to be happy with I end up with, spending this kind of money. Any feedback or advice is recommended. My room sucks, I am going to work on that. I tired Audessy on the Marantz, I think I was able to make the adjustments better myself. I havent ran Dirac yet on the Arcam, but it sounds better than the Marantz right out of the box. Made some basic adjustments. THANKS!
Of the limited reading I've done here RE these speakers, it seems to be a love/hate kind of relationship with the 700 series. Some people love 'em, some people don't. Of course you could say that about anything, but there seems to be that contrast out there, maybe a bit more so than I'm used to reading anout with other speakers? Not sure why. Myself, not a huge fan of B&W until you are talking Diamonds, I find them generaly a bit too harsh, but others might like that. (And some people don't like the Diamonds, so....) The speakers of course will sound different in your place vs. a dealer's place, all environments will affect the response.

Revel is very well regarded - though I am not familiar with that model. Life is too short to listen to speakers you are unhappy with. Some folks do indeed start liking their speakers later rather than sooner, so time could improve things for you (or perhaps they are simply getting used to the sound and it still is not very good....). But if they sounded good at the dealer, not so good in your space - your space may need attention to speaker placement, furnishings, system EQ, so many things can affect a speaker's performance - and you've already acknowledged that. There might not be a speaker that will perform perfectly in your space, but you should be able to find something that is pretty darned good, unless your space is pure audio hell.

Do run Dirac, take time doing a lot of experimenting.
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post #3 of 36 Old 11-13-2019, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyATX View Post
Hi all. I am a new audio addict. I started off 2 months ago with a $1000 budget and after a few auditions, and a low price thrown to me on a pair of speakers, I ended up with a Marantz 6014 and a pair of Bowers and Wilkins 702s2's. I hadn't researched them much, and really sort of bought them on impulse with the price I was given. I got home and hooked them up and was instantly dissatisfied. I tried to like the set up over a week, and started researching the speakers. I had demoed speakers at Best Buy and heard the same speakers (most of what they have at Magnolia) on a bunch of different amps. The Arcams and the Mcintosh having the best sound, and the Marantz having the best sound out of the 4 lower end, price wise, models I heard. I decided to demo an Arcam AVR 390 (Best Buy let me take it home for a cpl weeks). I think the sound is better, but havent had enough time with it to decide if I can live with the combo (Arcam + 702s). Anyways, sorry being long winded and apologize if I sound like noob but I am. I am also OCD and a quick learner so I have learned a lot in the last few weeks. The dealer I got the Marantz and the 702s from also sells Arcam, which I did not know. They are willing to work with me exchanging out anything. So I could take back the Marantz, get and Arcam, and keep the 702s. (Ill return the demo Arcam back to Best Buy, no issues there). I am also considering returning the 702s and getting the Revel 708s. I can get all of this done for around about the same money, the shop here has great prices and really wants to get me what makes me happy. Am I crazy or are the 702s amazing sometimes, and just plain harsh at others? It may just be my untrained ears I really dont know. I want to be happy with I end up with, spending this kind of money. Any feedback or advice is recommended. My room sucks, I am going to work on that. I tired Audessy on the Marantz, I think I was able to make the adjustments better myself. I havent ran Dirac yet on the Arcam, but it sounds better than the Marantz right out of the box. Made some basic adjustments. THANKS!
Welcome to the dark side!

A couple of opinions/tips:

1. High priced amps make precious little difference, unless you have chosen both a hard-to-drive (low impedance AND low sensitivity) speaker *and* you like to listen at extremely loud levels (75-85db or higher)...such speakers are a tiny minority of what is out there these days.

2. The two biggest factors in actual perceivable sound quality are the SPEAKERS and your individual ROOM ACOUSTICS. EQ can help, but unless your room is an outrageously bad acoustic nightmare, good speakers shouldn't require a buttload of EQing but sound good with little or none.

3. The only thing that makes even less difference than the amp/receiver is electrical WIRING, i.e. speaker cables, interconnects, and power cables. Any dealer who tries to sucker you into buying the exotic overpriced crap (and "crap" it is, for all the good it does) is not to be trusted an inch further than you can throw them.

4. Other notorious snake oil traps are exotic DACs and power conditioners. Again, steer clear of anyone pushing these items.

5. There are a lot of charlatans in this hobby and industry, and at least half the time, PAYOLA (bought and/or shill reviewers) and carefully calculated PLACEBO EFFECT (e.g. assuming high prices always give you high quality) are its bread and butter. Caveat Emptor, and keep using DIRECT (trial and error) EXPERIENCE because YOU are the only "authority"---give a wide birth to any dealer who claims to be one himself. YOUR ears are the final judge and jury, nobody else's. Question everything and everyone.

6. Best Buy is a great place to get speakers you can listen to at home and easily return within 15 days if they don't float your boat. Once in a while they have good clearance sales, and they will pricematch Amazon pricing. Otherwise, it's a crappy listening environment and the salespeople (esp. in the Magnolia stores) are usually some combination of hopeless ignoramuses or sleazy liars. Get in, get out, and for the love of god do not let them swindle you into buying Monster cables or some other useless junk like that.

7. There is no substitute for an in-home audition. That's the only way you can REALLY know how speakers will sound in YOUR room, on YOUR gear, with YOUR preferred content and listening preferences. This is one of the prime reasons to research otherwise obscure internet-direct brands NOT carried at Best Buy or boutique audio shops: free in-home trial periods. Some will even offer free return shipping, otherwise just build the cost of return shipping into your overall budget and get a couple pairs of bookshelves to compare, ship back the losers, and then order the remaining speakers from the winner (if you're doing multi-channel).

Have fun!

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)

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post #4 of 36 Old 11-13-2019, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the response Jonas. Honestly, I didnt even demo them very much. I was just told the were the bees knees by every person at best buy and i wasnt really researching them because they were out of my price range. The salesman at the local audio shop just quoted me such a low deal, i was not thinking straight. I was going to get the Martin Logan Motion 60s. I guess I just need to spend a little more time with the Revels and make a decision. My dealer sells b and w, revel, and golden ear mostly, or at least they have a listening room dedicated to each brand. Ps, how do you like the pb 3000s? I am pretty sure thats the route i am going to go, starting with 1 until budget allows for the 2nd
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post #5 of 36 Old 11-13-2019, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the response Zorba. I agree. The in store auditions just arent the same as living with them for a couple of weeks. The 702s certainly do make good sound, alot of the time. I know they dont measure well, and that the Revels do. I am not sure how that translates to sound being pleasant. I heard the 208s for a few minutes today...they are definitely a more neutral sound, I just hope if I do make the switch i dont miss the some of the excitement that the 702s provide. I was thankfully warned about cables by you tubers, and didnt waste any $$ on that.
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post #6 of 36 Old 11-13-2019, 07:30 PM
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Agree with the above...you can change out all the amps you want but it isn't going to make a big difference.

If you don't like the sound of the speakers, change the speakers.

The Motion XT series is decent, the measurements on the non-XT series don't look that great.

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/in...nts&Itemid=153

When looking at a frequency response graph, the X-axis (horizontal) is frequency from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, and the Y-axis (vertical) is the sound pressure, or how loud it is. If you see lines that don't plot straight, that means some sounds are louder and some are quieter. You want that graph to be as flat and smooth as possible.

The best measuring (and sounding) options in your price range are probably the Polk LSiM 705's via this link: https://slickdeals.net/f/13262356-po...src=SiteSearch

Polk LSiM 703 (bookshelf speaker) measurements: https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/in...nts&Itemid=153

Edit: if you're listening to Revel F208s, you've blown the $1000 gasket, but nothing else in the range will compare, so good luck with them.
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post #7 of 36 Old 11-13-2019, 07:37 PM
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Spend more time with the Revels
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post #8 of 36 Old 11-13-2019, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I dont know if my last reply went through so sorry if this is a repeat. Soulburner, it may not be clear in my first post but the $1000 budget has been blown. I can basically return the 702s and trade them for the Revel 208s without much or any out of pocket. Same with the Arcam avr 390 as it is the same price as the Marantz 6014. I appreciate the feedback. I have read this before, the speakers are likely the issue more than anything. I love them (702s) for about 20 minutes until I get ear fatigue. Nobody seems to have anything bad to say about the Revels.
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post #9 of 36 Old 11-13-2019, 08:31 PM
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I love them (702s) for about 20 minutes until I get ear fatigue.
If you are vulnerable to listening fatigue, I would recommend also trying out more of a "warm" speaker. Like this:
https://www.crutchfield.com/shopsear...e_evo_4.4.html

Crutchfield has a $10 flat rate return shipping policy for their bookshelves, and for towers I think it's something like $75 each...still peanuts when you're considering speakers in that price range. But if you wanted the $10 return you could just audition the Evo 4.2 or 4.1 bookshelves, they won't sound as "big" or bassy as the tower of course but the tweeter and tonal signature which are the most main factor in listening fatigue (or lack thereof) would be easily detectable.

(btw, the s-ame vendor does carry the F208 for $2500 apiece, is that comparable to what your dealer is offering?)
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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I think more like 3500-4 for a pair on the revels (i paid 3500 for the 702s). Like i say i can basically take back the 702s and trade for the revels , maybe a little out of pocket. I am just trying to stay with the dealer since they are being so accommodating. they also sell golden ear, which i auditioned briefly as well. Not sure which model but they were fine from what I remember. They sell other brands but that is what they have available for demo, most of what b and w, revel, and golden ear have to offer. they have a dedicated room for each brand. I picked up the 702s and the Marantz 3 weeks ago.
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post #11 of 36 Old 11-13-2019, 09:00 PM
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I think more like 3500-4 for a pair on the revels (i paid 3500 for the 702s). Like i say i can basically take back the 702s and trade for the revels , maybe a little out of pocket. I am just trying to stay with the dealer since they are being so accommodating. they also sell golden ear, which i auditioned briefly as well. Not sure which model but they were fine from what I remember. They sell other brands but that is what they have available for demo, most of what b and w, revel, and golden ear have to offer. they have a dedicated room for each brand. I picked up the 702s and the Marantz 3 weeks ago.
GE is said to be on the "bright" side, from what I remember.

No harm in trying out the Revels for at least a week, assuming the dealer would allow you to return them if they weren't your cup of tea.

A Revel vs Wharfedale Evo comparison-audition would be very interesting, though...

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #12 of 36 Old 11-13-2019, 09:59 PM
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... I got home and hooked them up and was instantly dissatisfied. ... the shop here has great prices and really wants to get me what makes me happy. Am I crazy or are the 702s amazing sometimes, and just plain harsh at others? It may just be my untrained ears I really don't know. ... My room sucks ...
It's a truism that a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. In audio, the chain is SOURCE>PRE/PRO>AMP>SPEAKERS>ROOMS>EARS.

Speakers are commonly that weakest link, but I think that's not the case here. B&W 702 S2 speakers have flat response, low distortion and prodigious power handling. If you don't like the sound, you should look at the entire chain for other weak links before condemning the latest addition. This is HUGE for someone just getting used to good speakers.

"amazing sometimes, and just plain harsh at others"
This is the hallmark of SOURCE issues. Since the Loudness War, the majority of commercial music is suspect as crap. Streaming music with lossy compression has artifacts. If most of your favorite music falls into the poorly mastered category (i.e. crap), then take that to audition speakers. You may find one that hides the flaws. But you know that's not the audiophile option....

Lots of threads on good source test material.

"My room sucks"
Loudspeakers and Rooms is the subtitle of a very good-but-complex book by Floyd Toole. I will not try to summarize 500 pages and four decades of research, except to say that where you put speakers matters. If you're technically inclined, it's a great read.

In general, residential spaces are furnished in a manner that is conducive to conversation, and that's just the kind of room that makes speakers sound good. You say your room sucks, but why? Tell us a little about it. Some folks have rooms where no speaker sounds good, and then there's my room what fits the residential expectation.

"It may just be my untrained ears"
With time, you'll develop the vocabulary that translates audio perception into words that audiophiles recognize. In one common example, if you said the "bass was boomy" we could ask how far from speaker to the room's walls. That's a design variable; free-standing speaker designs are very boomy if placed too close to a wall, and on-wall designs are lifeless out in a room. I'm not prejudging the B&Ws, it's just an example of how vocabulary will help this discussion.

Beyond vocabulary, a lot of folks don't know what low-distortion audio reproduction sounds like. The "MP3-and-earbud" generation has been deprived of the chance to experience good sound. If you're used to boom in your bass and sizzle in your highs, you won't like audiophile-grade audio because it will not give you the distortion you want, but will show all the source flaws that poor speakers hide... along with a lot of musical magic.

Please tell us more about the rest of the audio chain!

Frank

PS check out this thread... lots of opinions!
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/173-2...-horrible.html
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post #13 of 36 Old 11-13-2019, 10:58 PM - Thread Starter
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It's a truism that a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. In audio, the chain is SOURCE>PRE/PRO>AMP>SPEAKERS>ROOMS>EARS.

Speakers are commonly that weakest link, but I think that's not the case here. B&W 702 S2 speakers have flat response, low distortion and prodigious power handling. If you don't like the sound, you should look at the entire chain for other weak links before condemning the latest addition. This is HUGE for someone just getting used to good speakers.

"amazing sometimes, and just plain harsh at others"
This is the hallmark of SOURCE issues. Since the Loudness War, the majority of commercial music is suspect as crap. Streaming music with lossy compression has artifacts. If most of your favorite music falls into the poorly mastered category (i.e. crap), then take that to audition speakers. You may find one that hides the flaws. But you know that's not the audiophile option....

Lots of threads on good source test material.

"My room sucks"
Loudspeakers and Rooms is the subtitle of a very good-but-complex book by Floyd Toole. I will not try to summarize 500 pages and four decades of research, except to say that where you put speakers matters. If you're technically inclined, it's a great read.

In general, residential spaces are furnished in a manner that is conducive to conversation, and that's just the kind of room that makes speakers sound good. You say your room sucks, but why? Tell us a little about it. Some folks have rooms where no speaker sounds good, and then there's my room what fits the residential expectation.

"It may just be my untrained ears"
With time, you'll develop the vocabulary that translates audio perception into words that audiophiles recognize. In one common example, if you said the "bass was boomy" we could ask how far from speaker to the room's walls. That's a design variable; free-standing speaker designs are very boomy if placed too close to a wall, and on-wall designs are lifeless out in a room. I'm not prejudging the B&Ws, it's just an example of how vocabulary will help this discussion.

Beyond vocabulary, a lot of folks don't know what low-distortion audio reproduction sounds like. The "MP3-and-earbud" generation has been deprived of the chance to experience good sound. If you're used to boom in your bass and sizzle in your highs, you won't like audiophile-grade audio because it will not give you the distortion you want, but will show all the source flaws that poor speakers hide... along with a lot of musical magic.

Please tell us more about the rest of the audio chain!

Frank

PS check out this thread... lots of opinions!
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/173-2...-horrible.html
Im sure they are too close to the wall. The first AVR i used was the Marantz 6014. I am currently tying out an arcam avr 390. Mostly streaming through arc hdmi from you tube, spotify, etc for music. The room is just oddly shaped and has echo, no carpet, not much on the walls, thats all. Thats why I was thinking it might be the room more than the speakers. All of the equipment is new. I have only had the Arcam for a couple days and havent spent a ton of time with it yet, although initial impressions were that it was more crisp and cleaner than the Marantz on vocals for sure. Bohemian Rhapsody was used when I was demoing stuff, so I keep going back to it. I plan on switching the receivers out and listening to the same song back to back to see if I can actually hear a difference or im just telling myself I can.
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post #14 of 36 Old 11-13-2019, 11:01 PM
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b&w 702 s2 speakers have flat response
Maybe you're thinking of some other speaker?

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From: https://www.stereophile.com/content/...r-measurements

Lots of discussion at the bottom, too.

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Im sure they are too close to the wall. The first AVR i used was the Marantz 6014. I am currently tying out an arcam avr 390. Mostly streaming through arc hdmi from you tube, spotify, etc for music. The room is just oddly shaped and has echo, no carpet, not much on the walls, thats all. Thats why I was thinking it might be the room more than the speakers. All of the equipment is new. I have only had the Arcam for a couple days and havent spent a ton of time with it yet, although initial impressions were that it was more crisp and cleaner than the Marantz on vocals for sure. Bohemian Rhapsody was used when I was demoing stuff, so I keep going back to it. I plan on switching the receivers out and listening to the same song back to back to see if I can actually hear a difference or im just telling myself I can.
Thanks for link to the thread. I am experiencing the same thing. Ear fatigue. General consensus I got from the link was to change speakers. I can exchange the 702s for the Revels, or sell the 702s and get the Acends. I will experiment with placement, etc this weekend before I give up on the 702s. Thank you for the response.
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post #16 of 36 Old 11-13-2019, 11:28 PM
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... The room is just oddly shaped and has echo, no carpet, not much on the walls, thats all. Thats why I was thinking it might be the room more than the speakers. ... Bohemian Rhapsody was used when I was demoing stuff, so I keep going back to it. I plan on switching the receivers out and listening to the same song back to back to see if I can actually hear a difference or im just telling myself I can.
Like everything else, it depends which Bohemian Rhapsody you use. Here's a list of Queen work, rated for loudness issues. The movie soundtrack is not what you want to use, it's Night At The Opera.
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=queen

Odd shaped rooms can be addressed by creating a "listening space" where the speakers are beneficially placed relative to early reflections, then managing those reflections by treating the wall behind the speakers, and the sidewalls on either side. Pictures and drawings help.

Echo only goes away when you add absorption, but you can over-treat a room, too. Rugs with thick pads, curtains (heavier is better), upholstered furniture all absorb sound. Every non-flat surface diffuses sound, too. If you have a bookcase, vary the depth by using different size books, or placing collections of small items.

I'd test electronics last, because they likely have the least audible effect.

Have fun,
Frank
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post #17 of 36 Old 11-13-2019, 11:44 PM
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...
PS check out this thread... lots of opinions!
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/173-2...-horrible.html
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Maybe you're thinking of some other speaker? ...
Perhaps you missed the postscript? Commercial speakers are a morasse I've always avoided. The post was dealing with higher-level issues.
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post #18 of 36 Old 11-13-2019, 11:52 PM
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The OP claimed that the Revels sounded much more neutral and less fatiguing than the B&Ws. That corroborates the measurements of both speakers.

All B&W speakers share this characteristic: https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/in...nts&Itemid=153

Meanwhile, Revel: https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/in...nts&Itemid=153

We don't disagree about the room; but clearly, the 702s are a weak link and the OP is already in position to easily swap them.

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post #19 of 36 Old 11-14-2019, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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In terms of what I hear from the speakers, what does that dip at 2khz cause in the b and w's? I really didnt want it to be the speakers....they look fantastic. But at the end of the day I didnt buy them for their looks.
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post #20 of 36 Old 11-14-2019, 09:20 AM
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Thanks for the response Jonas. Honestly, I didnt even demo them very much. I was just told the were the bees knees by every person at best buy and i wasnt really researching them because they were out of my price range. The salesman at the local audio shop just quoted me such a low deal, i was not thinking straight. I was going to get the Martin Logan Motion 60s. I guess I just need to spend a little more time with the Revels and make a decision. My dealer sells b and w, revel, and golden ear mostly, or at least they have a listening room dedicated to each brand. Ps, how do you like the pb 3000s? I am pretty sure thats the route i am going to go, starting with 1 until budget allows for the 2nd
Ah, you mentioned Revel "708"s in your first post, but now it's clear it's the 208s. I was wondering about that "new model" from Revel.... Yeah, the 208s are well-known for their neutrality, well-respected, backed very much by good science and engineering. Me personally, that's what I'd go with of the speakers your considering. BUT - there have been a few cases of folks not preferring the Revels to others, and that boils down to 100% personal tastes in a speaker's response. On the average, I think folks probably prefer neutral or close to it. So as already mentioned, the ONLY way to truly know, is to try them in your environment, on your equipment.

As for the PB3000, well I've got the SB13Us - I like those very much. I like SVS a lot. But there are several good options for ID subwoofers - SVS, HSU, Rhythmik, to name a few of the tops. But yes - you're aiming for 2 eventually is a good thing.

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I could also just sell these and start over and go with the fan favorite Sierras Towers. I cant imagine they would have the bass extension as the revels with 8 inch vs 5.25 woofers. Blahh...dangit! I just did this.
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Oops. A misread and a typo by me. Yes the revels are 208s. SO MANY LETTERS AND NUMBERS! haha
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I could also just sell these and start over and go with the fan favorite Sierras Towers. I cant imagine they would have the bass extension as the revels with 8 inch vs 5.25 woofers. Blahh...dangit! I just did this.
Did what? You mean, order the Ascends? Ahhhh, now that might be a very interesting matchup indeed! Revel and Ascend both have their fanboys on AVS (I'd say Revel a good bit more so), which means I'm sure many will be awaiting the result breathlessly, keyboards at the ready...
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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Well I will keep yall posted then! Haha. I cant believe I ignored my own advice and impulse bought these b and ws. I posted the b and w's on craigslist. If they don't sell by Monday I will exchange for the Revels. If they do, then I can consider other options such as Ascends. Maybe next time I'll do research first, purchase second.... FYI the b and w's do sound amazing sometimes, imaging is very good. If there just wasn't that fatiguing harshness there....they would be solid. Im not sure what they were trying to go for but I can't imagine they designed it that way by accident. Oh well...
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Maybe next time I'll do research first, purchase second....

Wise....

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Update for anyone interested. I was able to tame the B and Ws a little with the Arcam and by turning down the treble 2dbs. Still having issues on certain tracks...but better. I am likely going to trade them in for the Revel f208s. Will update again after the switch. Thanks for the help.
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The Revels won't require much wrangling
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post #28 of 36 Old 11-21-2019, 07:53 PM
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Update for anyone interested. I was able to tame the B and Ws a little with the Arcam and by turning down the treble 2dbs. Still having issues on certain tracks...but better. I am likely going to trade them in for the Revel f208s. Will update again after the switch. Thanks for the help.

Looking forward to updates....!

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post #29 of 36 Old 11-24-2019, 10:37 PM
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Update for anyone interested. I was able to tame ....Will update again after the switch. Thanks for the help.
Everyone fixates on the speakers... yet no speaker sounds good in a bad room.
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post #30 of 36 Old 11-25-2019, 10:28 AM
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Everyone fixates on the speakers... yet no speaker sounds good in a bad room.
Frank

While what you say has merit, it is not absolute. EQ can (and does in many cases) help. I'd rather have a good speaker in a bad room than a bad speaker in a bad room, at least you've got more to work with....that said, and to your point, don't expect miracles just because of a "high end" speaker. Good of course, is subjective. I've got a bad room, and I think the speakers actually sound extremely good. Not as good they could coming from a dealer's room that was far more ideal, but sounding far better in a bad room than lesser speakers in that same good one...

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