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post #1 of 34 Old 11-17-2019, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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In search of "short" center channel

Hey all, been looking for a while and I can't quite find what I need out there new. Problem is, with my TV stand, I only have a 19" wide and 5" tall hole to put a center channel. I have a Sony TV with a large stand, so getting a large enough center channel to sit under the TV just isn't going to work. I've been running a 2.1 system with infinity Primus fronts for a few years and really want a center channel back.

So, can anyone recommend a center that would be under 5 inches high? At this point I've realized I'm not going to find an Infinity that will fit to match, and I've also realized there isn't a lot out there new, so I'm okay with going used if I have to.
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post #2 of 34 Old 11-17-2019, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is a picture of my standClick image for larger version

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post #3 of 34 Old 11-17-2019, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by sitlet View Post
Hey all, been looking for a while and I can't quite find what I need out there new. Problem is, with my TV stand, I only have a 19" wide and 5" tall hole to put a center channel. I have a Sony TV with a large stand, so getting a large enough center channel to sit under the TV just isn't going to work. I've been running a 2.1 system with infinity Primus fronts for a few years and really want a center channel back.

So, can anyone recommend a center that would be under 5 inches high? At this point I've realized I'm not going to find an Infinity that will fit to match, and I've also realized there isn't a lot out there new, so I'm okay with going used if I have to.
5" is going to be difficult for a quality center. I had a similar situation with 6" clearance but fortunately I found an Aperion Intimus 4C (5.33" high) that worked, and as it turned out, the speaker has performed exceptionally well. Fortunately the company is local to me so I could "interview" the speaker.

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post #4 of 34 Old 11-17-2019, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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[QUOTE=Otto Pylot;58835392

5" is going to be difficult for a quality center. I had a similar situation with 6" clearance but fortunately I found an Aperion Intimus 4C (5.33" high) that worked, and as it turned out, the speaker has performed exceptionally well. Fortunately the company is local to me so I could "interview" the speaker.[/QUOTE]

That's what I've been realizing. And even if I could put it under the TV, then the TV is going to be too high for me. Unless I could find some kind of mount for the top of the tv. But then I run into the speaker probably being too high.
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post #5 of 34 Old 11-17-2019, 05:07 PM
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The TV being 6 or 8" higher is perfectly fine.....as humans we are capable of elevating our eyes 2-3 degrees if necessary, or even raising our head a half inch if needed....you aren't going to be staring at the ceiling directly over your head. Just get a nice deep, quality, capable center channel and put the TV on top of it.

My TV is, out of necessity, probably 5' higher than yours. When I sit back comfortably on the couch, I am actually looking straight ahead, neither up nor down. It is 100% comfortable and is for all guests who have come over to watch TV or movies. I think folks are obsessed with having the screen placed very low....which is fine if you are sitting bolt upgright staring straight ahead. Most people I know like to recline a little to get comfortable....so a slightly higher display is extremely trivial.

However, if raising your gaze a couple of degrees will cause injury or duress..... check out the JBL 135C. Sorry for the sarcasm

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post #6 of 34 Old 11-17-2019, 05:14 PM
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For HT, the center does most of the work and you will not be happy with anything that fits in the 5"x19" cubby you have there (Nor is a cubby an ideal location for any speaker). Best solution would be to wall mount your tv and put a proper center under there. Also, if possible, spread out your L/R more to open the front soundstage. At a minimum, pull them forward to be in line with the front of the tv stand.

As far as short centers go, the shortest that comes to mind to me is the Polk s35 at 4.1"...but it's 24" wide. Might fit on top of the tv cabinet and still be under the tv?

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post #7 of 34 Old 11-17-2019, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by sitlet View Post
Here is a picture of my standAttachment 2642436
If replacing the TV stand or raising the TV are impossible then I would put a REAL center speaker on a single 24" speaker stand just IN FRONT of your TV stand.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076HX81WZ/

Yes it's cumbersome and not pretty but 100% worth it compared to having to tolerate a crappy little center with a bunch of 2-3" woofers that inevitably make male voices sound like chipmunks.

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post #8 of 34 Old 11-17-2019, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Darren Chan View Post
For HT, the center does most of the work and you will not be happy with anything that fits in the 5"x19" cubby you have there (Nor is a cubby an ideal location for any speaker). Best solution would be to wall mount your tv and put a proper center under there. Also, if possible, spread out your L/R more to open the front soundstage. At a minimum, pull them forward to be in line with the front of the tv stand.

As far as short centers go, the shortest that comes to mind to me is the Polk s35 at 4.1"...but it's 24" wide. Might fit on top of the tv cabinet and still be under the tv?
Unfortunately in my current apartment that's all I can do. No other layout with my furniture would have worked. And there isn't a wall behind it, it's the stairs. Not ideal but it's what I'm stuck with for now
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post #9 of 34 Old 11-17-2019, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
The TV being 6 or 8" higher is perfectly fine.....as humans we are capable of elevating our eyes 2-3 degrees if necessary, or even raising our head a half inch if needed....you aren't going to be staring at the ceiling directly over your head. Just get a nice deep, quality, capable center channel and put the TV on top of it.

My TV is, out of necessity, probably 5' higher than yours. When I sit back comfortably on the couch, I am actually looking straight ahead, neither up nor down. It is 100% comfortable and is for all guests who have come over to watch TV or movies. I think folks are obsessed with having the screen placed very low....which is fine if you are sitting bolt upgright staring straight ahead. Most people I know like to recline a little to get comfortable....so a slightly higher display is extremely trivial.

However, if raising your gaze a couple of degrees will cause injury or duress..... check out the JBL 135C. Sorry for the sarcasm [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]
Which I am open to. But my stand is rather wide under the TV. It's 20" wide by 10" deep. So factor trying to now find a speaker big enough AND be able to hold its 50 pound weight, well that also isn't going well lol
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post #10 of 34 Old 11-17-2019, 07:06 PM
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Which I am open to. But my stand is rather wide under the TV. It's 20" wide by 10" deep. So factor trying to now find a speaker big enough AND be able to hold its 50 pound weight, well that also isn't going well lol
Klipsch RP504C is like 30” wide and 14” deep. Not the biggest fan of Klipsch as they lie about specs, but that is one example of a wide, deep, fairly low profile center channel. Even using honest specs I think it’s probably a decent center if you aren’t too far off axis. There are others.


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post #11 of 34 Old 11-17-2019, 07:15 PM
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Which I am open to. But my stand is rather wide under the TV. It's 20" wide by 10" deep. So factor trying to now find a speaker big enough AND be able to hold its 50 pound weight, well that also isn't going well lol
Here you go, 8-5/8” high x 31-15/16” wide x 10-1/2” deep:
https://emotiva.com/collections/loud.../airmotiv-c2-1

Weighs 36lbs by itself, I seriously doubt a 50lb TV on top would ever be a problem.
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post #12 of 34 Old 11-17-2019, 07:39 PM
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Which I am open to. But my stand is rather wide under the TV. It's 20" wide by 10" deep. So factor trying to now find a speaker big enough AND be able to hold its 50 pound weight, well that also isn't going well lol

When I was new here I had a similar problem. Really I should have just bought a new TV stand and that would have solved things. The issue I had is that I simply disliked the TV when raised about 8-9" or so. Of course it was still watchable, but that wasn't my preference. But anyway...

1) Either get a TV riser:
http://www.syracusetvrisers.com/

(amazon has cheaper models, but no idea how good they are)

or


2) Plop the TV on a speaker, as has been mentioned. Although I think the riser probably would look better.


3) Go with a small speaker like the Polk S35 and try to fit it in front of the TV. At least BB has easy returns if you dislike it. But you will generally run into depth issues then ... unless the TV can move back a bit.

If you can manage some depth in front of the TV, another option is something like a swivel stand or pieces of wood to give you 1-2" extra in height. Then that opens up other speaker options in the 6-7" height range.

4) Go w/ smaller center like the def tech procenter 1000 or Motion 8. But male voices won't sound so manly.

5) Speaker stand in front of TV. That's the route I took. Doesn't look the greatest, but it works.

Last edited by Doe Doe; 11-17-2019 at 08:03 PM.
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That shelf is being held up by 4 tubes at the corners. If you could replace the tubes with taller tubes (7 or 8 inches would give you a lot more options). Not sure of the construction there, but you could remove the top and see what is going on. You'd have to create a solution, but a trip to the local Home Depot with one corner tube in hand should allow you to find a reasonable solution. Get creative. Your HT future depends on it!
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post #14 of 34 Old 11-17-2019, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sitlet View Post
Which I am open to. But my stand is rather wide under the TV. It's 20" wide by 10" deep. So factor trying to now find a speaker big enough AND be able to hold its 50 pound weight, well that also isn't going well lol

When I was new here I had a similar problem. Really I should have just bought a new TV stand and that would have solved things. The issue I had is that I simply disliked the TV when raised about 8-9" or so. Of course it was still watchable, but that wasn't my preference. But anyway...

1) Either get a TV riser:
http://www.syracusetvrisers.com/

(amazon has cheaper models, but no idea how good they are)

or


2) Plop the TV on a speaker, as has been mentioned. Although I think the riser probably would look better.


3) Go with a small speaker like the Polk S35 and try to fit it in front of the TV. At least BB has easy returns if you dislike it. But you will generally run into width issues then ... unless the TV can move back a bit.

If you can manage some width in front of the TV, another option is something like a swivel stand or pieces of wood to give you 1-2" extra in height. Then that opens up other speaker options in the 6-7" height range.

4) Go w/ smaller center like the def tech procenter 1000 or Motion 8. But male voices won't sound so manly.

5) Speaker stand in front of TV. That's the route I took. Doesn't look the greatest, but it works.
Those risers are a bit pricey, and finding one to match my stand probably won't work. Was looking to spend less than 400 total and putting in that cost means I lose out on speaker quality. If I push the TV ALL the way back, I would have at most 9" of depth if I put the speaker in front of the TV. Problem then is, the distance from the TV to the stand is less than 3 inches. So anything higher than that would be blocking the TV.

Getting a stand for in front might be the way to go. It's less than ideal, but I already have to have my subwoofer in the left cabinet to fit my space, so I already have a less than ideal situation. I could possibly move my receiver to the right cabinet, but it would have to be mounted sideways and would be in there with my ups, which I'd rather not do.

At this point I'm honestly liking mounting the center on top of the TV, gives me the most options. Does anyone know of a mount that would maybe fit into the top Vesa mounts on the TV?
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post #15 of 34 Old 11-17-2019, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by sitlet View Post
Those risers are a bit pricey, and finding one to match my stand probably won't work. Was looking to spend less than 400 total and putting in that cost means I lose out on speaker quality. If I push the TV ALL the way back, I would have at most 9" of depth if I put the speaker in front of the TV. Problem then is, the distance from the TV to the stand is less than 3 inches. So anything higher than that would be blocking the TV.

Getting a stand for in front might be the way to go. It's less than ideal, but I already have to have my subwoofer in the left cabinet to fit my space, so I already have a less than ideal situation. I could possibly move my receiver to the right cabinet, but it would have to be mounted sideways and would be in there with my ups, which I'd rather not do.

At this point I'm honestly liking mounting the center on top of the TV, gives me the most options. Does anyone know of a mount that would maybe fit into the top Vesa mounts on the TV?

There are Vesa options to mount above. I'm sure others will mention a decent one. Personally I'm a little wary of that option, but I'm also a scaredy cat in regard to mounting speakers... fears of the speaker tumbling off smushing my TV.

As for the speaker stand, why would you have to move anything at all? Just plop the stand in front of the TV, speaker goes on top, and you are done. It's not a big deal if the stand partially blocks the AVR, so long as dials/buttons are clear and remote works.

Last edited by Doe Doe; 11-17-2019 at 08:01 PM.
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post #16 of 34 Old 11-17-2019, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Those risers are a bit pricey, and finding one to match my stand probably won't work. Was looking to spend less than 400 total and putting in that cost means I lose out on speaker quality. If I push the TV ALL the way back, I would have at most 9" of depth if I put the speaker in front of the TV. Problem then is, the distance from the TV to the stand is less than 3 inches. So anything higher than that would be blocking the TV.

Getting a stand for in front might be the way to go. It's less than ideal, but I already have to have my subwoofer in the left cabinet to fit my space, so I already have a less than ideal situation. I could possibly move my receiver to the right cabinet, but it would have to be mounted sideways and would be in there with my ups, which I'd rather not do.

At this point I'm honestly liking mounting the center on top of the TV, gives me the most options. Does anyone know of a mount that would maybe fit into the top Vesa mounts on the TV?

There are Vesa options to mount above. I'm sure others will mention a decent one. Personally I'm a little wary of that option, but I'm also a scaredy cat in regard to mounting speakers... fears of the speaker tumbling off smushing my TV.

As for the speaker stand, why would you have to move anything at all? Just plop the stand in front of the TV, speaker goes on top, and you are done.
Just limited on space. And then I have to find one that is the right height and that adds more to my struggle lol. And trust me. I bought this TV stand because it can hold three times the weight of my TV. The idea of putting my TV on top of a speaker makes me more worried the TV will fall, rather than putting a speaker above it haha.
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post #17 of 34 Old 11-17-2019, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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That shelf is being held up by 4 tubes at the corners. If you could replace the tubes with taller tubes (7 or 8 inches would give you a lot more options). Not sure of the construction there, but you could remove the top and see what is going on. You'd have to create a solution, but a trip to the local Home Depot with one corner tube in hand should allow you to find a reasonable solution. Get creative. Your HT future depends on it! [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]
That is a good point. But the ones I have are metal. I could have taller ones made, but that might get pricey. Plus, the two pieces of wood dividing the center space are technically load bearing too. Not sure how much but that honestly involves a lot more than I want. At that point I'd just get another stand lol
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Look at this -- Raise the TV enough to put a center under it
https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Adj...rps=1&sr=8-103

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post #19 of 34 Old 11-18-2019, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by sitlet View Post
Those risers are a bit pricey, and finding one to match my stand probably won't work. Was looking to spend less than 400 total and putting in that cost means I lose out on speaker quality. If I push the TV ALL the way back, I would have at most 9" of depth if I put the speaker in front of the TV. Problem then is, the distance from the TV to the stand is less than 3 inches. So anything higher than that would be blocking the TV.

Getting a stand for in front might be the way to go. It's less than ideal, but I already have to have my subwoofer in the left cabinet to fit my space, so I already have a less than ideal situation. I could possibly move my receiver to the right cabinet, but it would have to be mounted sideways and would be in there with my ups, which I'd rather not do.

At this point I'm honestly liking mounting the center on top of the TV, gives me the most options. Does anyone know of a mount that would maybe fit into the top Vesa mounts on the TV?
Not as much as you will lose by going with a speaker with 3" "woofers". You would be far better off getting a 3" riser for the TV, then you can choose from any center with a 6" height. This will get you into the 4+ inch woofer group (RSL, for instance). Although not ideal, far better than the 3" woofer scenario. If you add 4" to the TV height, then you get into the 5"+ group of woofers, a far better scenario for sub matching and male voice reproduction.

Lots of options for Vesa mounting .. check Amazon.

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Last edited by RayGuy; 11-18-2019 at 11:30 AM.
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post #20 of 34 Old 11-18-2019, 11:29 AM
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That is a good point. But the ones I have are metal. I could have taller ones made, but that might get pricey. Plus, the two pieces of wood dividing the center space are technically load bearing too. Not sure how much but that honestly involves a lot more than I want. At that point I'd just get another stand lol
Those tubes look like aluminum, aluminum is very easy to cut even with a hacksaw you would not need someone to make them for you if you found material that would work.

Plus they might even just be decorative and not structural just some wood may do the trick, YMMV.


I too have been looking for space for a larger center.
My Infinity C250 fits in my furniture but I'm looking to use my C360 which is too wide.



Probably the easiest route is to build a stand just tall enough to fit the speaker and that the TV can sit on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
I think folks are obsessed with having the screen placed very low....which is fine if you are sitting bolt upgright staring straight ahead.

Funny lately I've been thinking folks are obsessed with having the screen placed too high. I've seen so many wall mounted sets at/near the ceiling and I just don't get it.
I find it uncomfortable looking at a set that high, especially when seated.

My understanding is that "ideal" height is where a line at the bottom third of the screen would be directly in line with your eyes..
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post #21 of 34 Old 11-18-2019, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by sitlet View Post
Unless I could find some kind of mount for the top of the tv. But then I run into the speaker probably being too high.
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At this point I'm honestly liking mounting the center on top of the TV, gives me the most options.
This is a reasonable compromise and can work very well. Whether the speaker being above and out of line with the L/R speakers' tweeters makes a difference or not will depend upon how well the speaker disappears; some are better than others at that. But I wouldn't sweat it.




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Does anyone know of a mount that would maybe fit into the top Vesa mounts on the TV?
I believe something like this is available. Is wall-mounting a shelf an option?

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post #22 of 34 Old 11-18-2019, 11:41 AM
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My understanding is that "ideal" height is where a line at the bottom third of the screen would be directly in line with your eyes..
"In line" as in the same height or as in a straight sight line drawn perpendicular to your face when seated? I slouch into my sofa so I actually prefer to my tv centered to my standing eye height. Those with recliners may want it even higher.
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post #23 of 34 Old 11-18-2019, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post
Look at this -- Raise the TV enough to put a center under it
https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Adj...rps=1&sr=8-103
+1

This solves all issues and doesn't break the bank.

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post #24 of 34 Old 11-18-2019, 11:47 AM
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+1

This solves all issues and doesn't break the bank.
Bingo!

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post #25 of 34 Old 11-18-2019, 11:57 AM
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My choices in order of preference would be:
  • Place the center speaker on the TV stand and use a riser for the TV.
  • Shelf-mount a center speaker on the wall above the TV
  • Simply forego the use of a center and use your front L/R as a phantom center.
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post #26 of 34 Old 11-18-2019, 11:58 AM
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Phantom centre is always an option.

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post #27 of 34 Old 11-18-2019, 12:04 PM
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"In line" as in the same height or as in a straight sight line drawn perpendicular to your face when seated?
Yes, perpendicular and horizontally level.


This presumes a display that is plumb.



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Originally Posted by tezster View Post
  • Simply forego the use of a center and use your front L/R as a phantom center.
You take that back!
Sacrilege!
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post #28 of 34 Old 11-18-2019, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I believe something like this is available. Is wall-mounting a shelf an option?
Wall mounting is not. Not sure if you could tell from the picture but my TV is in front of the railing for the stairs
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post #29 of 34 Old 11-18-2019, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Phantom centre is always an option.
That's how I've been doing it for two years since I got this TV and the stand. It works decent however vocals do get drowned out a lot, and my receiver doesn't have any way to let me boost the phantom center. Unless there's a way around that... It's an Onkyo rz610
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post #30 of 34 Old 11-18-2019, 12:32 PM
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That's how I've been doing it for two years since I got this TV and the stand. It works decent however vocals do get drowned out a lot, and my receiver doesn't have any way to let me boost the phantom center. Unless there's a way around that... It's an Onkyo rz610
AFAIK the only real way is via toe-in/speaker placement.

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